Why? By that logic you could forgive a player for kicking it away after a free kick as well. Zlatan ran in to pick the ball up, so the game could restart ASAP, but the keeper stopped him from doing that by sending the ball into orbit. Similarly you often see keepers getting booked for grabbing the ball and holding on to it after a penalty. The only reason he wasn't booked was because it would've been his second and it was late in the game - neither of which should matter.
The Referee Decisions Thread
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
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The Zlatan offside really irritates me. The linesman is just guessing pure and simple. He's not up with play, panicked and stuck his flag up. Never mind that the benefit should go to the attacker the fact he was initially being praised because he'd done every single thing he could possibly do wrong, but appeared as if he might have fluked the right decision is a huge problem with referring in this country.
They could help themselves by getting the basics right.
They could help themselves by getting the basics right.
He was angry more than anything and it was not malicious. He was not looking at the player coming in to grab the ball.
Goal kick.
Kicking the ball away is never malicious, but that's not the point of the rule. And of course he knew a United player would rush in to pick it up.
Oh please no more moaning about the ref, it's getting beyond a joke. The players are not good enough, simple as that, no more excuses for them. The amount of cheap free kicks we got tonight was starting to get a bit embarrassing.
It wasn't our ball though. It was Evertons and we don't have the right to dictate how fast their kickoff should be. Would Ibra get booked if he celerated like mad and Everton had to wait for the celebrations to finish?
Said this in the match thread. We cannot blame the officials for our results, that's simply down to us not taking our chances.
However, I feel that official's standards are worsening considerably. They are so afraid to take control in a match. You can often sense things boiling over because fouls are not being given or decisions are really poor. Then they react to something and make rash decisions, but are truly fearful of sending players off or making a big call. It consistently happens and in plain view, that's what's made it incredible for me this season. And it happens for and against us.
Not sure how this is being addressed at the FA but something must be done as matches are being ruined in my opinion.
It's a difficult job, but some things are just blatant, for example the booting of the ball today. It happened a couple of times earlier in the match as well and he didn't say anything. At the end of the match there is no more blatant yellow card. Sure it may not impact this match but it plays a part in that he gets to play the next match. If we go by the logic that it won't have an impact, then players have free reign at the end of matches (i know that is extreme but the rule is the rule and it's very clear). If you are going to give him the first yellow, you have to be prepared to give the second even if it's a stupid one.
However, I feel that official's standards are worsening considerably. They are so afraid to take control in a match. You can often sense things boiling over because fouls are not being given or decisions are really poor. Then they react to something and make rash decisions, but are truly fearful of sending players off or making a big call. It consistently happens and in plain view, that's what's made it incredible for me this season. And it happens for and against us.
Not sure how this is being addressed at the FA but something must be done as matches are being ruined in my opinion.
It's a difficult job, but some things are just blatant, for example the booting of the ball today. It happened a couple of times earlier in the match as well and he didn't say anything. At the end of the match there is no more blatant yellow card. Sure it may not impact this match but it plays a part in that he gets to play the next match. If we go by the logic that it won't have an impact, then players have free reign at the end of matches (i know that is extreme but the rule is the rule and it's very clear). If you are going to give him the first yellow, you have to be prepared to give the second even if it's a stupid one.
It can be both. Referess don't get a pass because one side is underperforming otherwise every side outside of the top 8 would have no right to ever complain about decisions.
You do know that kicking the ball away is a yellow right?
So if you are saying because it is there ball they can do anything, why not just boot the ball out of the stadium on any free kick you have when you are leading the match. Instead of putting it down and playing, just pick it up and hoof it, then wait for another ball to emerge.
You aren't allowed to kick the ball away like that, it's clear as day. The ref even went over and had a word because he knew it. Just didn't produce the card as he should.
Was it definitely given as a goal kick?
I assumed he'd given a free for a dive by Pogba.
Still ridiculous but it was the only way I could rationalise their goalkeeper hoofing it up the pitch.
I'm guessing Hermann Hreiðarsson.
It's a caution, not necessarily a yellow.
Is it regularly given as a yellow?
Not after a goal is scored, balls are even used in some players celebration now. I can't think of one instance that a player kicking the ball away after a goal is scored has received a yellow.
If anything, Grabbing or fighting for the ball from the opposition when it's their ball is grounds for a yellow. Try that for a throw in or something and see what happens.
You looked back one page right?
Nope. A much less famous player. I also seemed to have lied. He was bought by Newcastle but never played a match for them. Played for both Stoke and Coventry but not in the PL.
Since when has that ever mattered? Time being allowed for celebrations is different. The precedence is very clear - the conceding team is not allowed to prevent the scoring team from getting the ball, and many players have been booked for it in the past.
I've actually thought about that and to be honest I don't know. He doesn't blow the whistle or signal anything right after the ball goes out of play, but just casually walks over to the area. The linesman doesn't signal anything either. I haven't seen anyone anywhere say it was anything else than a goal kick though, and I assume some match goers would've corrected people by now if that was indeed the case. Either way, giving a free kick for a dive would've been an equally baffling decision.
Check the previous page for someone getting a second booking. If you've never seen anyone getting a booking for time-wasting after a penalty (kicking the ball away or holding onto it for no reason) I have to question how many games you've actually watched.
Barry booted straight into Gueye arm too! Now I understood the look on Gueye's face later. Incredible
Inept display again by a ref at ot.
But.......
We should be able to deal with it. We should not have to point to poor decisions as a reason. And although as bad as the red performance was today it wasn't the worst we have seen by far.
Ibra offside is given more often than not despite it being incorrect but the failure to book gueye again after blatantly holding back pogba was baffling... That particular one was Too late to make a big difference tho.
But.......
We should be able to deal with it. We should not have to point to poor decisions as a reason. And although as bad as the red performance was today it wasn't the worst we have seen by far.
Ibra offside is given more often than not despite it being incorrect but the failure to book gueye again after blatantly holding back pogba was baffling... That particular one was Too late to make a big difference tho.
Google says Bjarni Guðjónsson.Regarding the dropped ball... if you're the first player to touch it, are you allowed to take an immediate 2nd touch after? I always thought someone else had to touch ball before the first player to touch it could retouch it.
This is why I was confused with the Mirallas situation, because he just took off dribbling after ref dropped the ball. Maybe I'm remember it wrong but just another stick to beat the ref with if so
This is why I was confused with the Mirallas situation, because he just took off dribbling after ref dropped the ball. Maybe I'm remember it wrong but just another stick to beat the ref with if so
Whether or not we were/are inept is not the point of this thread. We could be sunderland-level inept but that does not excuse poor refereeing or linesmanship.
Bad! They bigly messed up. Sad!
Bad! They bigly messed up. Sad!
We need video referees in some form or another. Granted we've been average all season, but we've still been robbed of points in games due to terrible decisions. All teams have, the refs have been shocking this season.
No it's not a rule as far as I'm aware, it's just the common courtesy. There was a player in the Asian Champions league a couple of seasons back who dribbled a dropped ball over the goal and scored. He was then sent off for unsporting conduct. So you can take several touches, it just might be deemed unsporting. Unless the FA have a different set of rules to the AFC
No rules against it.
However Mirallas should righly have been cautioned under the rulebooks, at least that's how I interpret them.
Gotcha, thanks fellas. I feel like I was lied to by every ref I've ever had.. but good to know that it wasn't simply the ref being completely incompetent, it was also Mirallas being a shitehead
I'm 99% sure that the ref can't stop play for unsporting behavior so he couldn't stop Mirallas but he should have booked him (unless Swarbrick simply doesn't deem it unsporting).
Many years ago a similar incident happened and coincidentally involved the same person that I mentioned in a comment earlier. A player was injured, team mate kicked the ball out of bounds. Like usual when that happens the opposing team takes a throw-in and gives it back. This player however received the ball from the throw-in and scored a goal from his own half, hitting it over the keeper. Because it was a throw-in and not a dropped ball he could legally score but naturally the opposing team were fuming. He also wasn't booked.
The offside decision was far too close to blame the ref.Ibra was onside but barely. Very easy to understand how ref got it wrong
Refs are suposed to favour attacking players when in doubt. Or am i making this up??
I thought he was having a good display - but then things started going wrong.
Game Changing incidents:
Barry - he was right next to him. He definitely saw it but did not want to send him off.
The offside call (not his fault, but his assistants. Attackers should be getting the benefit of the doubt)
Minor Incidents:
The Drop Ball
That goalkick. (Was a foul on Gaia, but not a second yellow)
Robles second yellow
Game Changing incidents:
Barry - he was right next to him. He definitely saw it but did not want to send him off.
The offside call (not his fault, but his assistants. Attackers should be getting the benefit of the doubt)
Minor Incidents:
The Drop Ball
That goalkick. (Was a foul on Gaia, but not a second yellow)
Robles second yellow
Refs are encouraged to do so but it's not in the law just like they are encouraged to give the defender the benefit of the doubt regarding handballs but the rules doesn't differentiate between players.
Tbf, the referee helps us a lot on during the final 20/30mins. From what I see, he kept the game going ~ a lot of 50-50 challenges are given to our benefits, and he let our quick freekicks be taken even if it's improper. It helps in keeping up our high tempo. A lot of Everton players tried to fall and gain fouls to slow us down too, which rightfully ignored. Other referees would be against us. Bailly, Pogba, and co did a lot of clean tackles tbf, credits. The linesman though...
The sooner video technology assist referees in offside decision the better, and fairer the game will be.
Read the rules you quoted yourself:
The ref fecked up when restarting the play in that he (like our players) assumed Everton would give us the ball, so he just dropped it for Mirallas. What refs usually do is talk to the players to make sure there's an agreement beforehand to prevent situations like this.
But he was just onside, refs can make mistakes in those situations. It's pretty common. Had Zlatan been as onside as Gabbidiani was in LC final, we had a point, but this was far too close to call, and in this instance went against us
He'd have to have booked Pogba though
This is less about last night, but more from a number of games this season.
I genuinely watch virtually no football outside of United and England matches now, and the officiating is a massive part of why. I'm so often leaving matches with the feeling that the officiating has been a key determinate in the result of a match. Scoring is relatively difficult in football compared to nearly all other sports, so it is so important that the key decisions relating to scoring are correct as often as possible.
Referees need to be equipped with the technology to make their job is easier. I'm not looking for perfection, but considerable improvement could be easily made with little detriment. You shift the balance in officiating to more heavily favour keeping the game flowing, e.g. offsides are only blown for when clearly off. I don't want corner decisions or throw ins reviewed, or probably even direct free kicks. None of these directly lead to a goal. The specifics of the scope and operating procedures would need to be agreed and there would be teething problems at first. Perfect should not be made the enemy of good, however.
I have little regard for those who argue who would slow the game down. The ball is dead for such a high proportion of a football match anyway, especially in a game where one side has already taken the lead and have no intention of trying to increase it. I would also rather finishing watching a match with satisfaction that the victor won without a miscarriage of justice than go home two minutes earlier. I've never finished watching one of the great Federer/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray matches and thought, "God, I wish there was more controversy in that match to talk about in the pub," - who are these people anyway?
I genuinely watch virtually no football outside of United and England matches now, and the officiating is a massive part of why. I'm so often leaving matches with the feeling that the officiating has been a key determinate in the result of a match. Scoring is relatively difficult in football compared to nearly all other sports, so it is so important that the key decisions relating to scoring are correct as often as possible.
Referees need to be equipped with the technology to make their job is easier. I'm not looking for perfection, but considerable improvement could be easily made with little detriment. You shift the balance in officiating to more heavily favour keeping the game flowing, e.g. offsides are only blown for when clearly off. I don't want corner decisions or throw ins reviewed, or probably even direct free kicks. None of these directly lead to a goal. The specifics of the scope and operating procedures would need to be agreed and there would be teething problems at first. Perfect should not be made the enemy of good, however.
I have little regard for those who argue who would slow the game down. The ball is dead for such a high proportion of a football match anyway, especially in a game where one side has already taken the lead and have no intention of trying to increase it. I would also rather finishing watching a match with satisfaction that the victor won without a miscarriage of justice than go home two minutes earlier. I've never finished watching one of the great Federer/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray matches and thought, "God, I wish there was more controversy in that match to talk about in the pub," - who are these people anyway?
Our players were a bit gormless here. The rules were changed so: "the referee cannot decide who may contest a dropped ball or its outcome."
The FA also says that:
We just needed to contest it and get on it with it. Everton were clearly not going to be Corinithian about it, so we should have just competed for it.
You can take as many touches as you want from winning a dropped ball, but it has to touch two players before a goal can be scored, otherwise a goal kick or corner is given. This was again changed after there were a few occasions where a team "gave it back" to the opposition with a bit more zing than normal and the referee had no choice but to award the goal.
No, but it's when they are in doubt, not when you are.
What frustrates me most about the officiating standards of today is the amount of interference to the game itself. So many matches at Old Trafford this season have been stop-start due to referees not allowing the game to flow and, honestly, it's starting to feel as though I'm paying to watch ridiculous decisions as opposed to a game of football.
It's often said that match-going fans are being ignored for TV audiences, and I believe this is true when it comes to referees. The enjoyment at a lot of home games this season has been diminished by blatant time wasting, and the referees don't do anything to react, despite 70,000 paying customers being legitimately frustrated. Our current run of results doesn't help, but form aside, I don't recall ever seeing so many players going down knowing that they could easily eat-up a few minutes without the ref batting an eye lid. Goal kicks seem to take an age, and if the opposition decides to make a substitution, you may as well go get a cup of tea as it will be a while before a ball is kicked.
The worst thing is, I'm not sure how time wasting can be solved. If a player is down feigning a head injury, the referee practically has to stop proceedings. God forbid anyone should touch a goalkeeper - that would be at least a five-minute timeout. Similar situation with substitutes, if a player is taking too long to leave the field and the referee brandishes a yellow card, the furore that will follow will take up even more time. It's got to the stage where you almost have to accept it, but if you've paid to go to the game, it's easier said than done.
There was a passage in last night's match where an Everton player went down, wasted a bit of time and then got up just fine. Our players thought they'd get the ball back when play resumed, but the referee, in all his wisdom, decided that it should be a drop ball. Everton played on, we committed a foul, and it felt like an age had passed without any football being played. Many of us in the stands were just looking around in disbelief, wondering why on Earth we're watching a circus act when we've paid for football.
The referee's get a lot of stick, but for me, time wasting has to be one of the biggest frustrations at Old Trafford and the officials need to do more to keep the game flowing.
It's often said that match-going fans are being ignored for TV audiences, and I believe this is true when it comes to referees. The enjoyment at a lot of home games this season has been diminished by blatant time wasting, and the referees don't do anything to react, despite 70,000 paying customers being legitimately frustrated. Our current run of results doesn't help, but form aside, I don't recall ever seeing so many players going down knowing that they could easily eat-up a few minutes without the ref batting an eye lid. Goal kicks seem to take an age, and if the opposition decides to make a substitution, you may as well go get a cup of tea as it will be a while before a ball is kicked.
The worst thing is, I'm not sure how time wasting can be solved. If a player is down feigning a head injury, the referee practically has to stop proceedings. God forbid anyone should touch a goalkeeper - that would be at least a five-minute timeout. Similar situation with substitutes, if a player is taking too long to leave the field and the referee brandishes a yellow card, the furore that will follow will take up even more time. It's got to the stage where you almost have to accept it, but if you've paid to go to the game, it's easier said than done.
There was a passage in last night's match where an Everton player went down, wasted a bit of time and then got up just fine. Our players thought they'd get the ball back when play resumed, but the referee, in all his wisdom, decided that it should be a drop ball. Everton played on, we committed a foul, and it felt like an age had passed without any football being played. Many of us in the stands were just looking around in disbelief, wondering why on Earth we're watching a circus act when we've paid for football.
The referee's get a lot of stick, but for me, time wasting has to be one of the biggest frustrations at Old Trafford and the officials need to do more to keep the game flowing.
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