The shape of our midfield...

[Rozay]

What I will say with confidence is, if we don’t address our midfield - we won’t achieve anything at all next season. There is no unit, the personnel don’t seem to compliment each other and the balance is terrible. Playing with a 10 is not the answer in my view. An 8.5 would still provide creativity while giving us some sort of shape in the middle.

Our midfield seems an individual effort at the moment, and it’s a part of the field that is meant to be a collective one.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I keep hoping Ole will abandon this, but he keeps persisting with it.

 

[Rozay]

I keep hoping Ole will abandon this, but he keeps persisting with it.

What is most confusing is that you have to wonder what Michael Carrick is adding if, as a former top central midfielder, he thinks this shape of one and a half midfielders against three is sustainable. Of course, it is more likely that there are intricacies that I simply cannot see - however, to my own untrained eye it is baffling and can’t understand how a central midfielder would be happy with this set-up.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

What is most confusing is that you have to wonder what Michael Carrick is adding if, as a former top central midfielder, he thinks this shape of one and a half midfielders against three is sustainable. Of course, it is more likely that there are intricacies that I simply cannot see - however, to my own untrained eye it is baffling and can’t understand how a central midfielder would be happy with this set-up.

Not sure honestly.

The distance between Pogba and Bruno is absurd to me. Bruno isn't even a midfielder. He's basically playing as a 2nd striker next to Martial. We've got 4 players in a horizontal line(Rashford, Martial, Bruno and Greenwood) all congested up top often times. I don't see how this will continue to work. I think our individual brilliance in the final 3rd is masking a lot of structural issues we currently have.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

One thing I would say is I think this will be the make or break tactical decision for Ole. If he nails this midfield balance and can generate better chances for our strikeforce I think Martial, Greenwood, and Rashford (and Sancho) can fire us to titles. At the moment we still aren't doing enough to get them into the game. It sounds silly to say but Martial shouldn't have to be playing as well as he is just to get some half chances.

 

[Apokalips]

Not sure honestly.

The distance between Pogba and Bruno is absurd to me. Bruno isn't even a midfielder. He's basically playing as a 2nd striker next to Martial. We've got 4 players in a horizontal line(Rashford, Martial, Bruno and Greenwood) all congested up top often times. I don't see how this will continue to work. I think our individual brilliance in the final 3rd is masking a lot of structural issues we currently have.

It's crazy! Bruno is very rarely anywhere near Pogba and the amount of times you just see Pogba surrounded by opposition players without a team mate in sight is horrendous. Our CB gets the ball and then our DM sprints back 20 yards to either take the ball and then have no options, because the DM himself just reduced the options, or he sprints 20 yards back to sit deeper than the CBs who then play a pass that usually puts us under pressure. It's a clear tactic because you see the Fred/Matic/McTominay all do it so consciously but all it does is put us under undue pressure in simple situations. The amount of times we've conceded a chance recently from that sort of play is crazy and I have never seen a side win trophies by emptying midfield.

I love Bruno and the impact he's had, but I don't like the fact he basically gets a free role, especially when our wide forwards are goalscorers. I'd love to see Pogba and Bruno as 8s with licence to both go forward because when they do get close together they play nice, intricate football that creates openings.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Ive been thinking exactly this for a while. I disagree with Pogba though. I think he has been class in midfield from a defensive perspective. The amount of headers he is winning and his work rate has been top notch. Plus the fact that Pogba has the strength and ability to beat a man, hold on to the ball and thread passes forward is one of the main reasons why the two in midfield hasnt been a complete shambles so far. Fernandes is 20 yards in front of him and Matic is in between the DM's. That leaves him in midfield with 3 players surrounding him a lot of the time. Matic has played well also. But no two players can face 3 and not be overrun at times. People keep saying Scholes and Keane were fine. But that was a different era and its hard to compare them. The tactics and level of opposition was completley different. For me the problem is Fernandes. There I said it. For me he is a luxury player. I just cant argue with his stats so he has to play but just in terms of balance in the midfield he doesnt contribute.

Everyone thinks we beat the top teams last season so we will do it again. No we wont. The team post covid is a totally different team. We will be the opposite of last season i.e. we will break down team that sit back - the smaller teams and struggle against teams that press us - mainly the big teams. Man City, Liverpool etc will do this team 9 times out of ten. We wont be beating City next year like we did this season. No chance.

For us to play Fernandes + Pogba we need a really top DM like Kante (Maybe Ndidi) and for Fernandes to drop deeper against the top teams. Thats the only way I can see us playing both Pogba and Fernandes consistently. The other option is to drop one of them in certain games and go with two defensive midfielders. Matic + Fred + one of Pogba or Fernandes. But Ole will have to be super brave to do that.

 

[Falcow]

Agree with OP. Poga and Fernandez in midfield together just doesnt work. Neither offers anything defensively. It's one or the other I feel.

I thought the midfield worked better pre lockdown.

 

[Smores]

Agree with OP. Poga and Fernandez in midfield together just doesnt work. Neither offers anything defensively. It's one or the other I feel.

I thought the midfield worked better pre lockdown.

The midfield was certainly more cohesive prior with Scott and Fred but i think that's shape rather than personnel.

People have already discussed it to death but if we want our midfield to work we need all 3 to play as midfielders, not one CB and one second striker. It then creates the triangles you need to play out.

It just smacks off Ole not knowing what he's doing to be slightly critical as if he's coming up with incompatible ideas in different areas.

 

[Trex]

If only Ole switches to a 433 we would look at lot better, it will solve a lot of our problems currently, the difficulty in playing out from the back against high pressing teams wouldn't be such an issue if Pogba and fernandes were asked to occupy each half space in midfield (check city and Leicester play),the problem of our fullback not being great going forward wouldn't be so much of an issue if he gives Pogba a little more license he should be the player dove tailing with greenwood and not AWB while Fernandes do it on the other side with Rashford,it so obvious I don't get why he can't see this maybe it would take a big defeat soon for him to get this

 

[Adam-Utd]

It just doesn't suit us at all.

With players that aren't so mobile in midfield it puts them under serious pressure from teams that press high.

First we saw the mistake with Pogba getting swarmed against Southampton, now we've had Fred give the ball away when being pressured and having little passing options open.

I feel like the back 3 are too close together when we do this, Maguire / Lindelof need to spread out more as it allows them to just crowd the midfield and chase after the back 3 easily. We then resort to having to lump it forward and hope for the best, it's just counter productive.

 

[mancan92]

Its clear we are setup stupidly. Why is everyone in midfield so far apart?

Matic/Fred sat in between the defenders, pogba literally in an ocean in the middle with about 4 players on him everytime and bruno up top with martial. Who the hell came up with this strategy?

Wheres the logic?

 

[Lentwood]

The shape of our midfield...is not right whenever Pogba plays

The trouble with Pogba is he instantly makes his fellow CMs look like poorer players

If Fernandes and Pogba are going to play together Fernandes is going to have to drop deeper

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

The shape of our midfield...is not right whenever Pogba plays

The trouble with Pogba is he instantly makes his fellow CMs look like poorer players

If Fernandes and Pogba are going to play together Fernandes is going to have to drop deeper

Yeah time to drop Pogba and bring in Lingard!

 

[mancan92]

The shape of our midfield...is not right whenever Pogba plays

The trouble with Pogba is he instantly makes his fellow CMs look like poorer players

If Fernandes and Pogba are going to play together Fernandes is going to have to drop deeper

I don't think it's anything to do with that. It's simple tactics we need to bring our midfield closer together. Or get better ball playing CB or a press resistant dm.

Bruno needs to drop deeper and matic needs to stop sitting between the defenders. We need a proper 433

 

[KennyBurner]

I’ve said it earlier in another thread but the problem is Bruno’s free role in the team. He isn’t involved as much in our half when we are pressed. Too many times is pogba isolated because our Dm drops back to our defense to assist with the buildup. If Bruno provides himself as an outlet for the pass from Matic/Fred we easily beat the press.
No reason why we should have a 4-1-1-1-3 shape when building out the back.

 

[Rozay]

Ive been thinking exactly this for a while. I disagree with Pogba though. I think he has been class in midfield from a defensive perspective. The amount of headers he is winning and his work rate has been top notch. Plus the fact that Pogba has the strength and ability to beat a man, hold on to the ball and thread passes forward is one of the main reasons why the two in midfield hasnt been a complete shambles so far. Fernandes is 20 yards in front of him and Matic is in between the DM's. That leaves him in midfield with 3 players surrounding him a lot of the time. Matic has played well also. But no two players can face 3 and not be overrun at times. People keep saying Scholes and Keane were fine. But that was a different era and its hard to compare them. The tactics and level of opposition was completley different. For me the problem is Fernandes. There I said it. For me he is a luxury player. I just cant argue with his stats so he has to play but just in terms of balance in the midfield he doesnt contribute.

Everyone thinks we beat the top teams last season so we will do it again. No we wont. The team post covid is a totally different team. We will be the opposite of last season i.e. we will break down team that sit back - the smaller teams and struggle against teams that press us - mainly the big teams. Man City, Liverpool etc will do this team 9 times out of ten. We wont be beating City next year like we did this season. No chance.

For us to play Fernandes + Pogba we need a really top DM like Kante (Maybe Ndidi) and for Fernandes to drop deeper against the top teams. Thats the only way I can see us playing both Pogba and Fernandes consistently. The other option is to drop one of them in certain games and go with two defensive midfielders. Matic + Fred + one of Pogba or Fernandes. But Ole will have to be super brave to do that.

I think Pogba has won headers and has shown decent work rate, but he’s just not good enough at it, not necessarily for want of trying. He can chase an opponent back 20/30 yards, as he’s a long strider, but over shorter distances, he’s not one for shuttling about and pressing like Scott and Fred. Then technically, he’s just not good at defending for me. His tackling technique is pretty poor, and he looks like he’s going to foul his man more often than not. To me, I can see since the restart that he’s clearly trying to do the defensive part of his game, but he’s never going to be Fred or Scott. If you think about it, in our defensive shape, he’s basically been asked to replace Ander Herrera.

I think what he is good at is that he’ll obviously come up stronger than his opponent more often than not, and will win most duels. It isn’t helped by the fact Matic is his partner. I honestly think dropping Bruno back 15 yards would make all the difference. We don’t want him running around tackling all day either, but between him and Pogba, they can basically both be half a Herrera each. One whole Herrera and a Matic is enough to cover the defensive side of a midfield. Pogba is about 30-50% of a Herrera I think, and that isn’t enough, at least against good teams.

Even if Pogba tries his best and puts in the very best defensive performance he is capable of, and really stretches himself to make sure he’s always in place and nothing gets past - is that really what we want from him anyway? He has the capacity to do so much more going the other way that you want him to have enough scope in his role to do that. The player we had playing as an 8.5 last season is too good a player to just throw away.

Besides all this, even if Ole insists on the current roles, the players need to still be a unit. Matic is no use in the back 4 in free play.

 

[OldTrevil]

As long as Fred, Pogba and Bruno play as a unit, we will dominate the middle. That trio has potential to be all conquering. Matic was great after the restart against teams that sat deep with no interest in pressing us deep, and should be used sparingly now that we'll be facing teams that will press and properly challenge us for midfield dominance.

 

[Harry190]

Personally think we'd look spectacular in a classic 4-4-2 or 4-4-2 diamond formation.


Better than what's currently on display.

 

[DJ_21]

I think we should go back to 4-3-3, this is what ole started with when he first took over and we was playing well and scoring plenty of goals.

 

[ValenciasDrilledCrosses]

Personally think we'd look spectacular in a classic 4-4-2 or 4-4-2 diamond formation.


Better than what's currently on display.

I like the diamond, which of the forwards would you drop and who would you add to central midfield?

 

[Harry190]

I like the diamond, which of the forwards would you drop and who would you add to central midfield?

Any of them. Would drop Greenwood or Rashford. And play Martial upfront alongside Ighalo, Greenwood or Rashford and Pogba, Fernandes, Fred and Matic behind them.

I think they'd cover each other's flaws.

Greenwood wouldn't be in the starting eleven but he'd get plenty of time as a sub. He should be playing centrally anyway, alongside someone else but he doesn't have seniority, which is why he is pushed wide.

 

[buckooo1978]

when he first signed and Pogba was out Fernandes was definitely a bit more box to box. He is playing more like a 10 in the current setup.

Pogba is a fantastic fantastic footballer but he's not as good as Carrick/Scholes/Keane in a double pivot/midfield 2.

He doesnt control games or dominate them the way you'd want to playmaker to.

the balance isn't right. If we had a more mobile passing DM would it make a difference?

 

[MikeKing]

I remember how we really struggled to unlock teams sitting back. We had to give up possession against bigger clubs, but in most games we didn't have a problem with keeping the ball in midfield, we struggled to convert that possession into good chances. Most of the games that we actually won the midfield battle, we were far too passive and slow. We still see some of that but there has been some change to our approach since then.

We have been better against teams sitting deep partly because we always have a playmaker in Bruno so close in proximity to our attackers. It gives us an edge attacking-wise, in that we can get into dangerous positions a lot easier and with more control than before. Over a full game we spend more time having the ball in and around the box than before when we were oriented around counter-attacking. It's also other benefits like teams are afraid of hitting us on the break, due to our attacking threat. This is what you gain, but we give something up in this trade-off and it makes it seem too unbalanced and at the moment it is. But I do enjoy the attacking intent and it works as we're almost undefeated since returning, and we have been playing some great football at times.

I can't just say trash the tactics because the midfield isn't perfect when we're winning games and our attackers have plenty of chances every game. There is certainly tweaks we could and should make, but I don't believe there is a clear wrong and right with regards to the shape of the midfield.

 

[Mickeza]

I really think the ability to switch play quickly from the back would help to beat a press and free up space for Pogba. I think that’s why we’re after a left footed centre back like Torres. Maguire is capable of doing it on his right foot and you see it going to rashford/Williams but you rarely see a quick switch of play to Greenwood or Wan Bissaka. I also think Sancho would help too as he’s a playmaker who can drop in like Rashford has been doing on the left to give numbers which Greenwood doesn’t really do.

 

[PitTon]

People mention 433 anh 442 (Diamond) formation which I like too. One thing from these two setups which is important is free Pogba a bit not only when we start build up from GK, but when we move up to other team penalty area.
Bruno can be box to box, number 10 with his style. He could also play RCM so he is fine and still produce magic there. Also help out to bring the creativity from the right side that we lack atm.
But it is important to get Pogba back there on the left where he is the most effective imo. I know player with his abilities can play any where but I also believe players perform to their best when playing in the area that maximize his potential and abilities. Not to mention we can stop that crazy 316 set up as well.
We can say and expect what we hope for, but the more we think about these setups, the more excited we feel. Another reason is that it may bring a bit balance to our team when we attack. We have good combinations on two sides as we'll see the understanding between Martial, Pogba, Rashford on the left and Martial, Bruno, Greenwood on the right. This makes the decision to let Pogba get in to positions where he can cause problems and show a lot more of his qualities than just playing in a deeper position is quite important.

 

[Rozay]

I remember how we really struggled to unlock teams sitting back. We had to give up possession against bigger clubs, but in most games we didn't have a problem with keeping the ball in midfield, we struggled to convert that possession into good chances. Most of the games that we actually won the midfield battle, we were far too passive and slow. We still see some of that but there has been some change to our approach since then.

We have been better against teams sitting deep partly because we always have a playmaker in Bruno so close in proximity to our attackers. It gives us an edge attacking-wise, in that we can get into dangerous positions a lot easier and with more control than before. Over a full game we spend more time having the ball in and around the box than before when we were oriented around counter-attacking. It's also other benefits like teams are afraid of hitting us on the break, due to our attacking threat. This is what you gain, but we give something up in this trade-off and it makes it seem too unbalanced and at the moment it is. But I do enjoy the attacking intent and it works as we're almost undefeated since returning, and we have been playing some great football at times.

I can't just say trash the tactics because the midfield isn't perfect when we're winning games and our attackers have plenty of chances every game. There is certainly tweaks we could and should make, but I don't believe there is a clear wrong and right with regards to the shape of the midfield.

I don’t think we’d lose any of that if at the very least, Matic was a bit closer to Pogba. Ultimately, I still think we could do with a prime Fernandinho type - but just as importantly, we need to tweak the role of the full backs I think. At City, for example, they are auxiliary central midfielders. The thing is ours, at least our right back, is not comfortable enough on the ball for this.

I guess the main difference with City, tactically, is that Pep wants their wingers to provide width, not their full backs as much. When they go forward they look something like this:

———————Centre Halves———————
——Walker————Rodri——Zinchenko—
———De Bruyne————Silva———
Mahrez————Aguero——————Sterling​

Rodri is in a 3 man midfield with Walker and Zinchenko. The full backs do get forward and overlap at times, but they spend a lot of time in field providing defensive support in and out of possession, which allows Kevin and Silva to push forward. If Bruno wants to play as a striker, I think we’d need help from our FBs in covering space infield. Presently, given Pogba has less attacking licence than Bruno, rather than an equal split between Kevin and Silva, we’d only need one full back at a time to drop in field, while the other is free to overlap on the outside. If Pogba were also to play forward alongside Bruno, then we’d need to do that at the sacrifice of the full backs pushing forward, and let them drop in beside Matic to allow Pogba, Bruno and the 3 strikers to play right up there. This is how City seem to get so many players forward at once. They often have 5 purposeful attackers in and around the opposition box. We’d be better off doing something similar than clinging on to minimal attacking contributions from Shaw and Wan-Bissaka anyway.

 

[Zeno]

I don’t think we’d lose any of that if at the very least, Matic was a bit closer to Pogba. Ultimately, I still think we could do with a prime Fernandinho type - but just as importantly, we need to tweak the role of the full backs I think. At City, for example, they are auxiliary central midfielders. The thing is ours, at least our right back, is not comfortable enough on the ball for this.

I guess the main difference with City, tactically, is that Pep wants their wingers to provide width, not their full backs as much. When they go forward they look something like this:

———————Centre Halves———————
——Walker————Rodri——Zinchenko—
———De Bruyne————Silva———
Mahrez————Aguero——————Sterling​

Rodri is in a 3 man midfield with Walker and Zinchenko. The full backs do get forward and overlap at times, but they spend a lot of time in field providing defensive support in and out of possession, which allows Kevin and Silva to push forward. If Bruno wants to play as a striker, I think we’d need help from our FBs in covering space infield. Presently, given Pogba has less attacking licence than Bruno, rather than an equal split between Kevin and Silva, we’d only need one full back at a time to drop in field, while the other is free to overlap on the outside. If Pogba were also to play forward alongside Bruno, then we’d need to do that at the sacrifice of the full backs pushing forward, and let them drop in beside Matic to allow Pogba, Bruno and the 3 strikers to play right up there. This is how City seem to get so many players forward at once. They often have 5 purposeful attackers in and around the opposition box. We’d be better off doing something similar than clinging on to minimal attacking contributions from Shaw and Wan-Bissaka anyway.

This is closer to what Ole is doing. Though not necessarily with the FBs as aux MF rather CBs playing that role and FBs with the ability to cover CB. It is also why Liverpool style FBs would not suit our system. In any case it is wrong to analyse the MF 2 or 3 in isolation.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Been thinking to myself recently that Bruno has been playing too far forward. It just seems weird especially when Matic basically drops in to make it a back 3. Just seems like we just pop it in to Pogba then he doesn’t have many quick available options because Bruno is off being a second striker. If he would maybe just drop back a little get on the ball and try to work more combinations with Pogba we might find somewhat more control and a clinical edge.

Maybe we are missing Shaw a bit as he would step in to midfield and act as that partner allowing Pogba an option and a partner to work with. Something Williams just isn’t capable of doing.

 

[red woppit]

Agree with OP. Poga and Fernandez in midfield together just doesnt work. Neither offers anything defensively. It's one or the other I feel.

I thought the midfield worked better pre lockdown.

It can work if we play Fred or McTominay in there, but it would mean having two up front, which again could be ok if our FB's were totally attacking, which they have not shown so far. Both FB's have made some forward progress recently, but I feel that when we play Matic and Pogba in midfield, the FB's are probably instructed to venture forward cautiously, so we don't see attacking play like Liverpool, they have workhorses in midfield, who pop up with the odd goal or two, but they can cover the FB's when they storm forward, but they have had two seasons to perfect that, we're just at the start, and our team/squad will change before we can get a way of playing that's suits the team, possibly if/when Garner, Levitt, Mejbri, Mengi etc, are established players.

 

[Zlatans Knee]

I think that the imbalance of our midfield will be made obvious against Sevilla. They are going to apply constant pressure against our defence and with Bruno, Pogba and Matic in the team we will not have enough mobility to cope with it. In some respects I am looking forward to the game because I hope that this will be the tipping point for our management to see this. Strange though that they cannot see what we have all been seeing. Or perhaps they just don't trust any of our backup players to be able to improve the situation. But I agree with many other posters on here, we need to choose between Bruno and Pogba.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think the issue is Ole. Barring the few games where it happens on its own, he doesn't seem care at all for possession football. And for me it's the most important aspect to get right for us on the pitch (other than important signings). We've always been good at counter attacking. These players know how to do in their sleep. But no top team can get away with being terrible at possession play and we are distinctly mediocre at it. I've always felt with Ole that the issue with him tactically is that he seems to place little emphasis on possession football. It's all quick quick get forward score goals football. The issue is that a really top team can't merely be based on that, as it'll get found out when the space isn't available.

So yeah, I'd love to see Ole's Manchester United develop into a team that can truly play possession but I've been hoping to see that for the last year and a half so im skeptical it'll happen under this manager. For example let's see if we can dominate the ball against Seville. Would be great to see that happen.

 

[OleTheGreat]

I don’t like it. I know the Pogba/Bruno/Matic combination has a lot of admirers - but it still worries me, especially with how we set up.

I’m not a massive advocate of Pogba playing the role he’s playing. Firstly, I believe he can contribute more with more license, and secondly, I have concerns about his defending. Not his 'attitude’ or ‘willingness’ to defend, but mainly his ability. I don’t think he’s good enough at it, not for want of trying, and we will be caught out against top pass and love teams.

Then there is Bruno. He’s nominally a midfielder at all and plays 15/20 yards in front of Pogba. What this does is leaves us 2 against 3 more often than not, and in anything but very easy games, it is an issue. Not even the likes of City - but a game like Southampton at home last week showed this.

Personnel wise, we have a good trio, but the 4-2-3-1 won’t win us titles I don’t think. We are essentially playing two in midfield. I’d much prefer a more classic 433, with Bruno and Pogba both sharing offensive and defensive duties, but giving us 3 bodies and a little more control in the middle of the park.

Wow! if you read my previous posts you would know that I've been crying for this to happen. Although we all think of Pogba as a box to box midfielder, he's a fantastic player as a #8. He's so technically gifted and can shift sides or perplex a defender within seconds. He's wasted playing that deep and he's no way less than Bruno. In fact, I feel he has more abilities than Bruno. He cannot defend, that's pretty there for everyone to see, he drops so deep because Ole has asked him to and to keep those long passes coming but imagine if Maguire sent those diagonal passes in and Pogba is in the mix with Bruno, Martial and Rashford to play those small one-touch passes. Also, the addition of Sancho or maybe keeping Greenwood on the wide right will mean more options to pass in within themselves and find a way through. We need players up front who can keep and play keep one-touch passes under pressure and I feel Bruno always goes for the killer pass because he cannot find a player and that is because Pogba is too deep to cover any counter from the opposition. Matic is literally a 5th defender or a 3rd CB if you will in this team and his athletism is laughable and he often turns into a player which aggravates me. I hope we switch to a 4-3-3 and go into the market looking for a proper DM who is quick and holds solid in front of the defense and is robust. Somebody like Busquets or Rodri.

 

[Dante]

Despite being 2 of the top 10 most talented midfielders in the league, Pogba and Bruno are both bad at taking care of the ball. I just don't think you can't build a cohesive midfield with them in it together.

I know people will now bring up the idea of replacing Matic as a panacea to solve all problems. But the Caf has been calling for a DM to 'free' Pogba for years. Expecting the same kind of player to free Pogba and Bruno is extremely unlikely to happen. Both simply need to contribute more in terms of possession rather than palming off responsibility to the man behind them (probably more so Pogba since he sits deeper in the current shape, but that could obviously change if Bruno drops back).

It's unfortunate, but I think we need at least 1 more tiki-taka type midfielder to stand in for Pogba or Bruno as required. Possibly two if you count the DM position. If they can't play in the same team in big games, we'll need replacements for when we do.

Matic dropping deep isn't the problem. Barcelona have been doing it for years with Busquets. The difference is that they have midfield link-men who show for the ball better and are more press-resistant than ours.

 

[Redlyn]

For us to play Fernandes + Pogba we need a really top DM like Kante (Maybe Ndidi) and for Fernandes to drop deeper against the top teams. Thats the only way I can see us playing both Pogba and Fernandes consistently. The other option is to drop one of them in certain games and go with two defensive midfielders. Matic + Fred + one of Pogba or Fernandes. But Ole will have to be super brave to do that.

Isnt Kante just the same as Fred in terms of play style? I feel they both need to play in a double pivot to be at their best. This allows them to do what they do best, close down and be on the front foot knowing there is cover.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

The Bruno that was destroying the PL when he first came isn’t the Bruno we have now. He’s basically turned into a Dele Alli “midfielder” who’s really a forward at this point, and it pisses me off. He’s practically playing in front of Martial at this point.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Despite being 2 of the top 10 most talented midfielders in the league, Pogba and Bruno are both bad at taking care of the ball. I just don't think you can't build a cohesive midfield with them in it together.

I know people will now bring up the idea of replacing Matic as a panacea to solve all problems. But the Caf has been calling for a DM to 'free' Pogba for years. Expecting the same kind of player to free Pogba and Bruno is extremely unlikely to happen. Both simply need to contribute more in terms of possession rather than palming off responsibility to the man behind them (probably more so Pogba since he sits deeper in the current shape, but that could obviously change if Bruno drops back).

It's unfortunate, but I think we need at least 1 more tiki-taka type midfielder to stand in for Pogba or Bruno as required. Possibly two if you count the DM position. If they can't play in the same team in big games, we'll need replacements for when we do.

Matic dropping deep isn't the problem. Barcelona have been doing it for years with Busquets. The difference is that they have midfield link-men who show for the ball better and are more press-resistant than ours.

The real key is basically telling Bruno to get his ass back until we are around the opposition half, as well as needing a Matic style midfielder with more legs.

Our midfield structure is the single biggest issue with our team as it causes us to lose control of games and struggle even when our players themselves aren’t necessarily playing like shit.

 

[flappyjay]

Looks more a tactical problem not a player problem. You can get Kante or prime Fernandinho but as long as Ole asks them to stay back with the cb's Paul will still be alone in midfield with Bruno all the way forward playing as a second striker. I don't know why he is making things so hard we should just play like we did right after lockdown.

 

[RepardReece]

Noticed this when watching our games, glad to see it mentioned in a thread. Don't have a clue what kind of tactics Ole is trying to put out by basically leaving us with One Man in Midfield. I think this is the very reason why we struggle to play out from the back, there's no options to pass it forward than to either push the ball to the wing-backs or Pogba. Think teams are realising this and man-marking these players whilst pushing and we are left with no options.

Very flawed system IMO.

Like a lot of responses on here, I'd like to see us go back to the 4-3-3 option. I don't think Matic has to drop back to defence unless necessary, I'd like to see Bruno drop back and Pogba push up a little further on attack. Bruno needs to get involved when playing out from the back as he can provide quick movement, passes and create options. Pogba can do the same, but when all Rashford, Martial, Greenwood and Bruno are hugging the opponents defence it becomes hard to distribute up the field.

 

[Borys]

If we can reduce the distance between CDM, CM and AM and make them play as a unit instead of individuals passing the baton, then even with Fred od McTominay we will be dominating most teams. We have the best midfielders in a long, long time currently.

The current setup is definitely different to when we started with post Covid. Another major difference is movement from the front three which was fantastic. I don't fancy Rashford in Di Maria role.