Television The Sopranos

[Zen]

tbh, that's why gangsters themselves comment on it being more realistic than most other portrayals of that world. When you watch films or other gangster series, they throw endless gangster activity at you, when it's not as frequent as they make out....Sopranos spaces it out, gives you the insight into the other half of a mobsters life, his other family. Both sides are equally important to Sopranos greatness.

It's one flaw would maybe be that it was a bit rinse and repeat with made men causing trouble and wanted to quickly rise further, but again, that's the life in mafia, made men constantly wanting to prove themselves quickly. But still, despite mostly being terrific performances, they could of spaced them out a bit more and give them more time(only Joey Pants death came as a real surprise really when the show first aired, but only because it was earlier in the season.)

 

[Oggmonster]

I would put it in my top 10 tv shows for sure, but it doesn't have that same feel of something like Goodfellas, that gritty realism that's so appealing when it comes to gangster films.

Perhaps you're right about there being as much or more about the mafia family, but most of that is about people complaining and finding reality to not match their idea of how things should be. There's only a smattering of gangster activity. Not that that's a problem per se, just warning anyone so they didn't get their hopes up.

I agree it's a bit of a slow burner at times but I found that part of the enjoyment of the show, the whole build up to stuff. Nothing was rushed about it. I agree that a few of the characters weren't great but it's probably slightly unfair to compare it to something like Goodfellas which has only 2 and a half hours to cram a lot in. Sopranos has years of episodes so can afford the luxury of slowly progressing stories.

I agree with your last point, if people expect an all out action show they'll be disappointed as it does take a while to progress but if people have got the patience it's worth watching. Like I said probably the best show I've seen.

 

[Zen]

If people want all out action, they shouldn't even start looking at HBO shows. It's real drama, and real drama takes time.

 

[Snow]

How would we know if the mafia world portrayed in the movies are realist or not ? It's not like we've been there and done that

Well, Goodfellas is based on true events at least. The guy that Ray Liotta played. He wrote a book and was very famous for a while in America so at least some of it's true. We just can't really know which parts are real and which parts Hollywood made up /exaggerated.

 

[Snow]

Sopranos is brilliant. I thought The Wire was overall better. More better characters and story development. In the 6th season I hated Tony, I always hated his mom and Janice, Meadow was annoying, AJ was pointless with everything he did and he had to add a pencil beard to his face to make him more unlikable.

By the end of the series most of the good characters were all gone and the reasons for it were pretty poor. Basically because Tony was a shithead.

 

[Zen]

Your supposed to hate Tony in the final season and his sister and his mom and find Meadow annoying most of the time. So effective storytelling there then.

His Mom was a big loss to the show really, brilliant character.

 

[acnumber9]

I used to have this opinion to however after watching the wire again through to season 4 with only 5 to come I've had to concede that The Wire is the greater show.

The Sopranos for the most part is the analysis of one character and how his life effect those around him, as a piece of entertainment it is unparelleled, however The Wire deals not just with one character but with the a whole society(Baltimore) and the problems it faces because of the drugs trade.

For me that takes alot more skill and has greater scope making it by far the better drama, its been said before that its like a novel rather than a show and I agree and got much more out of it, than I did the Sopranos(which I have watched and loved for 10yrs).

It also has less plot holes due to superior script writting.

The Soprano's never had a story line as ridiculous as the one involving Jimmy in season 5 of The Wire.

 

[Rado_N]

It certainly wasn't what I expected, I got bored halfway through the first season and gave up first time.

It's a good show, but it's definitely behind my favorites like The Wire and Twin Peaks. It's more a comedy than anything, and it's more about the Soprano family than the mafia Soprano family. So be prepared for lots of Jersey Housewives style complaining about anything and everything.

AJ is possibly the worst character I've ever seen in any show. He's pointless, he has no development, he has no emotions besides being depressed. You can tell the writers weren't interested in him beyond what a 'son' would mean to a mafia boss.

The psychology stuff is okay, but it never really goes anywhere, Tony never tries to change in any really meaningful way that would challenge his identity as a mob boss. It's danced around, but it's never really discussed that you can't be a healthy person and make the sort of decisions a mob boss has to make. For example, he has to womanize or the others in the gang will think he's weak, that there's something wrong with him, but it practically ruins his relationship with his wife.

They do spend time with Tony trying to find middle ground, but it could have been much better if Tony was constantly battling with trying to be a better person and not resorting to his mob persona so easily.

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen such a disparaging report on The Sopranos. Sorry but I disagree with pretty much everything you say here.

The Soprano's never had a story line as ridiculous as the one involving Jimmy in season 5 of The Wire.

Yea, that really was a bizarre story line. Season 5 of The Wire really didn't reach the heights of earlier seasons.

 

[Zen]

tbh, I never like comparing, they are pretty much on a even footing as far as I'm concerned. But when you end up in these thread is people reaching for flaws and problems in both series, which fair enough, they both have them, but as serial dramas stretched over 60+ episodes both of them, it's natural, writers lose their focus a bit, hard to remember every little detail etc etc, it's no coincidence that most flaws for the best shows come after their first few seasons.

And they are mostly tiny flaws that even the best modern mainstream films would be proud to say are their only real flaws. As far as long running American drama goes, they are the two best, maybe next to West Wing(which has plenty of problems post-Sorkin) and now Mad Men and Breaking Bad can probably stand next to them too.

 

[gooDevil]

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen such a disparaging report on The Sopranos. Sorry but I disagree with pretty much everything you say here.

I'm probably being over harsh, I did like the show. I didn't watch Growing Up Gotti but The Sopranos is like a fictional version of what that show sounded like, a show about the human side, the 'normal' home and social life that exists around a group of gangsters. I certainly found that interesting, and funny. We normally see the glamorous side, and think of these sorts of people as larger than life, so it's interesting to see them struggling with the same sorts of things, on a grander scale, that we all deal with.

And I certainly don't mean to suggest they don't explore the idea of Tony trying to adopt the suggestions of his therapist, to see things and act in a more socially acceptable way. Tony tries to be more fair, or to be forgiving, like giving the gay mafia guy a chance, but most of it just makes things worse. I suppose they were in a fix about how much they could mess with Tony's world because they didn't want to change what the series was about, it had to get back to his troubles organizing his two families. If things really fell apart and that world become much more difficult, we wouldn't have the relatively calm house life with no security.

Tony would talk to his therapist or his wife about being a different sort of person, but people relied on him to be 'evil', to be unforgiving and cruel and greedy. That's what being a 'good' gangster was, he needed to project that sort of persona to be able to lead. But all of those qualities poisoned his normal relationships. There was never really any way to find a middle ground, which was interesting, but it was repeated as a theme an awful lot.

I don't know, trying to explain my dissatisfaction is making me feel like I'm being harsh. It's a fine series.

 

[adexkola]

I refuse to compare the Sopranos and The Wire anymore, it just becomes nitpicking at a certain point. I have both DVD sets in a revered location next to my TV. I just wish sometimes that The Wire got as much recognition as it's counterpart.

I might actually go on a Sopranos marathon this weekend.

 

[Cina]

Every discussion about either show ends up going off in a pointless tangent about which is better. It's so pointless at this stage.

 

[Randall Flagg]

They are both brilliant. And are both very different shows too.

I think I prefer the Soprano's though

 

[Rado_N]

I refuse to compare the Sopranos and The Wire anymore, it just becomes nitpicking at a certain point. I have both DVD sets in a revered location next to my TV. I just wish sometimes that The Wire got as much recognition as it's counterpart.

I might actually go on a Sopranos marathon this weekend.

Yup, agree entirely, both fantastic shows to be enjoyed in their own right. Agree with the recognition point, too.

Every discussion about either show ends up going off in a pointless tangent about which is better. It's so pointless at this stage.

Are you trying to say comparing them is pointless?

 

[Cina]

Yup, agree entirely, both fantastic shows to be enjoyed in their own right. Agree with the recognition point, too.




Are you trying to say comparing them is pointless?

Nick, read back through all threads on this forum and you'll find comparisons on each page.

Yes I think comparing them is pointless because it's basically 50/50 as to which one people prefer and always will be. And whilst both bring magnificent they're very different shows overall. I really don't get peoples need to constantly state which one they prefer, hell some people just get really defensive if someone says they prefer the other.

 

[Rado_N]

I agree I was just taking the piss because you said pointless twice in two sentences.

 

[Cina]

How pointless of you. Prick

 

[Snow]

Your supposed to hate Tony in the final season and his sister and his mom and find Meadow annoying most of the time. So effective storytelling there then.

His Mom was a big loss to the show really, brilliant character.

I know that but my criticism is that there where no more characters to like. You can't watch a show full of characters you hate.

Carmela was good. Mainly because she did such a good job portraying her. Thought she was the best actress/actor in the series.

 

[Snow]

tbh, I never like comparing, they are pretty much on a even footing as far as I'm concerned. But when you end up in these thread is people reaching for flaws and problems in both series, which fair enough, they both have them, but as serial dramas stretched over 60+ episodes both of them, it's natural, writers lose their focus a bit, hard to remember every little detail etc etc, it's no coincidence that most flaws for the best shows come after their first few seasons.

And they are mostly tiny flaws that even the best modern mainstream films would be proud to say are their only real flaws. As far as long running American drama goes, they are the two best, maybe next to West Wing(which has plenty of problems post-Sorkin) and now Mad Men and Breaking Bad can probably stand next to them too.

I totally agree with this. One show isn't really better than the other. It's simply a matter of preference.

I'm finally watching Boardwalk Empire properly. Started to watch it with the missus but she has a hard time watching some of these HBO shows. She was spoiled growing up with romantic "comedies".
Deadwood will be next. I've seen a lot of episodes here and there and liked it but never watched in chronically.

 

[Revan]

I am watching it currently and while the first three seasons were brilliant, I am not having any fun watching the fourth season. In fact, I am even considering to not continue watching it. Not even close to The Wire and Breaking Bad IMO.

 

[sullydnl]

I am watching it currently and while the first three seasons were brilliant, I am not having any fun watching the fourth season. In fact, I am even considering to not continue watching it. Not even close to The Wire and Breaking Bad IMO.

Been a while since I watched it. What's happening in the fourth season?

 

[Cheesy]

I can remember the 4th season having some slow episodes and taking a while to pick up, but without spoiling anything there's some fantastic stuff in there towards the latter stages of that season.

 

[Revan]

Been a while since I watched it. What's happening in the fourth season?

I can remember the 4th season having some slow episodes and taking a while to pick up, but without spoiling anything there's some fantastic stuff in there towards the latter stages of that season.

Ralph got whacked which together with Christopher's drug problem are the only important things in this season. Very slow and boring otherwise.

 

[Swearengen]

Yeah seasons 4 and 5 are very slow. I still enjoyed them, though.

AJ and Meadow become so annoying towards the end.

 

[Alock1]

Cause Breaking Bad and The Wire were never slow......

 

[Revan]

Cause Breaking Bad and The Wire were never slow......

Not as slow as Sopranos. Also, BB was slow only on the first two seasons and even there both it and The Wire were much more fun to watch than the fourth season of the Sopranos. It is quite a shame considering that I watched the first three seasons on around a couple of weeks or so while I am watching the fourth one for around two weeks.

 

[Swearengen]

Slow is not necessarily bad. The Wire, Deadwood, Band of Brothers, The Pacific and The Sopranos are all terrific series yet very slow in their respective ways.

 

[sullydnl]

Ralph got whacked which together with Christopher's drug problem are the only important things in this season. Very slow and boring otherwise.

Ah yes, I remember now. That season is probably the slowest, not a lot happens on the mob side of things. A bit of a darker tone is introduced too.

You should definitely keep it up though, I can pretty much guarantee you'll find season five an improvement. Way more good stuff to come!

 

[Alock1]

Not as slow as Sopranos. Also, BB was slow only on the first two seasons and even there both it and The Wire were much more fun to watch than the fourth season of the Sopranos. It is quite a shame considering that I watched the first three seasons on around a couple of weeks or so while I am watching the fourth one for around two weeks.

Debatable. It all depends what you want from a TV show really. Even Sopranos at it's slowest had more character development than most shows. Some of the symbolism is brilliant too.

Not really arsed with the comparisons, it all depends on what you want from it.

 

[RexHamilton]

I'm halfway through season 5 of The Wire. Absolutely loving it. But it's still behind The Sopranos for me. The Sopranos can be quite slow at times, in terms of moving along a story line, but there is almost always something important or intriguing happening. The attention to detail is phenomenal. Meadow and Aj do become annoying (although I found AJ both annoying and hilarious in equal parts, from day 1) but they're supposed to. As Alock said, the character development is brilliant throughout.

I mean as brilliant as the Wire is, I think, only two characters are completely and properly fleshed out. They're McNulty and Stringer. The rest, even of the main cast, we don't know as well as we know, Silvio, Paulie, Chris, Meadow etc.

Breaking Bad had a single storyline running through 5 seasons. It is much easier to move at pace through the story in a show like that. I loved Breaking Bad. But it was a completely different type of show to either The Sopranos or The Wire. It had a tendency to be slow at times too but often an episode finished with a bang and left you reeling and waiting for the next episode.

 

[Varun]

Its an absolutely brilliant show. Regarding Tony's kids, AJ is meant to be annoying and its actually fascinating to see how Tony deals with him. Meadow's character develops beautifully, from the teenage irritating girl to a mature adult of sorts.

I found the characters very interesting. Each of them are so different and have so much going on in their normal lives that that in itself makes the show very interesting.

 

[Swearengen]

No one has mentioned Tony's relationship with Carmela, which I personally thought was excellent storytelling.

 

[Brown Toothpick]

The Sopranos had the best dialogues between the top shows. It was never "slow" to me.

 

[Blasphemy]

Season 4 of the Wire is better than any Sopranos season, comfortably so.

But no season of The Sopranos is close to as poor as Seasons 2 or 5 of the Wire.

 

[Varun]

No one has mentioned Tony's relationship with Carmela, which I personally thought was excellent storytelling.

Or his relationship with Chris. That was superb too.

 

[LARulz]

Started watching a couple weeks ago and got the last season left. I like it a lot, my only gripe is that relationships with people change episode to episode without explanation at times. One time they are close and the next they want to kill each other with no explanation, or just cold to each other.

I do have one question though. Why does Tony have such a great house when he was a capo and other capo's/boss' have a house that doesn't even compare?

 

[Cina]

Season 4 of the Wire is better than any Sopranos season, comfortably so.

But no season of The Sopranos is close to as poor as Seasons 2 or 5 of the Wire.

Blasphemy! Season 2 is brilliant.

 

[Blasphemy]

Started watching a couple weeks ago and got the last season left. I like it a lot, my only gripe is that relationships with people change episode to episode without explanation at times. One time they are close and the next they want to kill each other with no explanation, or just cold to each other.

I do have one question though. Why does Tony have such a great house when he was a capo and other capo's/boss' have a house that doesn't even compare?

Being a capo is more about responsiblity than money I think. Most of money you make is down to your own resourcefulness in terms of thinking of ways to make money, rather than getting free money.

Guys like Paulie and Chris aren't that good at it, where as Vito and Ralphie makes loads.

 

[LARulz]

Being a capo is more about responsiblity than money I think. Most of money you make is down to your own resourcefulness in terms of thinking of ways to make money, rather than getting free money.

Guys like Paulie and Chris aren't that good at it, where as Vito and Ralphie makes loads.

That would make sense, I thought that but would have assumed half of what they needed to do was pick good guys beneath them to make money for them.

Have to also say, Junior is my favourite character. He is by far the funniest, shame he hasn't appeared much in season 5

 

[Revan]

Blasphemy! Season 2 is brilliant.

Probably my favorite. It changes the topic but it is still perfectly writen. And I loved the Polish on it.