The Tottenham Hotspur 2020/21 thread

mav_9me

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Yes, strange season indeed.

Bizarrely, we are still only 1 point behind City yet the Bookmakers now have them as odds on favourites to win the prem, while Utd are quoted at around 33/1

Also, despite Spurs throwing away a 3 goal lead, they are now shortened to clear 12/1 third favourites.
Seriously? Wow. I don't think they are anywhere near clear of everyone else. Personally think it's a mess after Liverpool and city. A lot of teams have potential to come in top 4 imo.
 

Wilt

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Seriously? Wow. I don't think they are anywhere near clear of everyone else. Personally think it's a mess after Liverpool and city. A lot of teams have potential to come in top 4 imo.
It’s a combination of things, I guess the bookmaker traders/risk analysts look at it in a different way to us. Of course like any trading market, prices are continually subject to change.
 

RashyForPM

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They weren’t world beaters at 3-0, and they aren’t a shite team now that they drew 3-3. Having said that, they were extremely overrated by us during the first half. They just have two world class players who can win games: Kane and Son. Let’s be honest, without them, they would struggle to win any games in this league as last season showed.
 

Scroto Baggins

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Kane is bloody amazing though.
Must be looking around at the other plonkers thinking "Yep, im gone next year". Oh and before the Spurs fans say it, Im under no illusion he will be coming here, he will be off to Bayern, Man City, RM or something. He looked another level to most on the pitch.

I dont think Jose got the subs wrong, Bale for Bergwijn, Moura for Son is just giving your wingers fresh legs to run at tiring defenders. Bale was through for a 1 on 1 and missed lets not forget, but hasnt played football regularly in a long time and looked rusty all round. And the Winks for Ndombele is taking out a more offensive player for a more defensive one. Which at 3-0 up seems the way to go, Ndombele was tiring as well, seems his fitness is not quite there.

Was just poor defending, Sissoko doesnt challenge for the first goal from the set piece, Sanchez I have no clue what he is doing and/or thinking on that second goal. Moura and Reguilon in a bit of a shambles mix up to as to who was picking up which runner on the cross. Sanchez is in David Luiz lala land clown mode, and the last goal by Lanzini is an absolute belter.

Still think they will challenge for top 4.
 

Chief123

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They weren’t world beaters at 3-0, and they aren’t a shite team now that they drew 3-3. Having said that, they were extremely overrated by us during the first half. They just have two world class players who can win games: Kane and Son. Let’s be honest, without them, they would struggle to win any games in this league as last season showed.
There false sense of euphoria and misplaced ambition to win the league was massively hyped with their misleading score line of 6-1 against us. It was a deserved victory, but the 6-1 suggested they played unbelievable football to destroy us. That simply didn’t happen. All 6 of their goals were complete catastrophic defending on our part. Huge school boy errors that you would rarely see once in a premier league game, never mind 6 in one match. The absolute calamity and possibly worst defensive performance in our last 30 years somehow gave them the sense they were now Brazil in their prime.

The other games in their season so far have been a reality check. The truth is in 3 of their 4 other games, they were lucky not to lose. Saints battered them first half and then capitulated second half. Everton played them off the park. And they crumbled last night against West Ham.
 

Acheron

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Their defense is all over the place but the good thing about them is they have Son and Kane and are scoring a lot so for them it should be a matter of learning from games like this one and keep believing in themselves in order to find the right balance.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I actually turned it off after half time as I didn’t expect West Ham to make a come back. :lol:

What do we expect anyway. Spurs issue last season under both Poch and Jose were their defensive problem as they have average and ageing defenders, and it’s not a rocket science that their defense was still all over the place today when 3 of their back four are still the same as last season.
 

1966

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I found this touch map and thought "wow, what a brilliant illustration of the completeness of Kane's performance and his ability to control a match all over the pitch":



It's not even immediately obvious which end is which. Despite being involved in 3 goals, he only needed two touches inside West Ham's area all game.

Such an essential player for Spurs. And top 5 in the league across all positions for me.
 

1966

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They weren’t world beaters at 3-0, and they aren’t a shite team now that they drew 3-3. Having said that, they were extremely overrated by us during the first half. They just have two world class players who can win games: Kane and Son. Let’s be honest, without them, they would struggle to win any games in this league as last season showed.
Yeah. I've posted several times already in this thread about how, in various different ways, Spurs are being carried by Kane and Son, and that's only becoming more obvious. Take away their goal contributions and Spurs lose almost every game so far this season.

I know that's a trite point and something similar applies to every team but it's not just that Spurs' scoresheets are not much more than Kane and Son assisting each other while the team takes a pounding at the opposite end. It's also that Kane is their best midfielder and Son is their best wide player while both simultaneously being their best strikers. They do so much more to drag Spurs through games than just the measurable goals and assists.

Spurs have other good players, of course. Lloris has rediscovered some of the form that made him one of the best. Lo Celso and Ndombele are raw, unpolished gems. But there's a lot of mediocrity there too, especially in defence. Outside of Kane and Son, the rest of the first XI is not obviously that of a top 6 team.

Long story short, I agree.
 

1966

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It’s a combination of things, I guess the bookmaker traders/risk analysts look at it in a different way to us. Of course like any trading market, prices are continually subject to change.
Bookmakers' odds are merely a reflection of how many people are willing to buy into a certain outcome at a particular price. That is to say that this shortening of Spurs' odds represents a large amount of betting activity on Spurs to win the league.

Of course, they also use complex algorithms to try to sway people into betting in ways that will be maximally profitable, and factor in a healthy overround so that they functionally never lose money no matter what the outcome.

So many people have an inaccurate perception of what bookies do and how they function. They make money by selling all odds at scam prices (i.e. shorter than their "real" value) rather than by accurately predicting events (which I think is what most people believe they do). There's no such thing as beating the bookies really. :p

(That and the fact that they're only semi-regulated, all operated out of tax havens, are exploitative as all hell.. Well, they're cnuts basically. Total cnuts. Don't gamble with bookies at all, friends.)
 
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TrustInJanuzaj

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I found this touch map and thought "wow, what a brilliant illustration of the completeness of Kane's performance and his ability to control a match all over the pitch":



It's not even immediately obvious which end is which. Despite being involved in 3 goals, he only needed two touches inside West Ham's area all game.

Such an essential player for Spurs. And top 5 in the league across all positions for me.
Two touches in the opposition box is now where near enough though and it’s a consistent problem Spurs have.
 

Marcus

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Thanks for the entertainment. I watched the first half and then went to do something else. Came back to see if Spurs had scored any more and watched the last 15 minutes of the game. Totally worth it.
 

cyberman

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There false sense of euphoria and misplaced ambition to win the league was massively hyped with their misleading score line of 6-1 against us. It was a deserved victory, but the 6-1 suggested they played unbelievable football to destroy us. That simply didn’t happen. All 6 of their goals were complete catastrophic defending on our part. Huge school boy errors that you would rarely see once in a premier league game, never mind 6 in one match. The absolute calamity and possibly worst defensive performance in our last 30 years somehow gave them the sense they were now Brazil in their prime.

The other games in their season so far have been a reality check. The truth is in 3 of their 4 other games, they were lucky not to lose. Saints battered them first half and then capitulated second half. Everton played them off the park. And they crumbled last night against West Ham.
Totally agree. Jose calling West Ham lucky because they scored 3 in 14 mins rings hollow when they scored their 3 in the opening 15. I cant see the difference between the 2.
 

RashyForPM

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There false sense of euphoria and misplaced ambition to win the league was massively hyped with their misleading score line of 6-1 against us. It was a deserved victory, but the 6-1 suggested they played unbelievable football to destroy us. That simply didn’t happen. All 6 of their goals were complete catastrophic defending on our part. Huge school boy errors that you would rarely see once in a premier league game, never mind 6 in one match. The absolute calamity and possibly worst defensive performance in our last 30 years somehow gave them the sense they were now Brazil in their prime.

The other games in their season so far have been a reality check. The truth is in 3 of their 4 other games, they were lucky not to lose. Saints battered them first half and then capitulated second half. Everton played them off the park. And they crumbled last night against West Ham.
I wouldn’t say they were lucky not to lose to West Ham as Kane and Son had a brilliant first half which gave them a commanding lead to throw away, although you could argue if the game had carried on, West Ham would have won. However, I agree that their false sense of hope derived from smashing us while we were in disarray was more than misguided. I mean, we were even down to 10 at 1-2. They are very overrated. They have the same amount of points after 5 games as we did last season, and we were awful.
Yeah. I've posted several times already in this thread about how, in various different ways, Spurs are being carried by Kane and Son, and that's only becoming more obvious. Take away their goal contributions and Spurs lose almost every game so far this season.

I know that's a trite point and something similar applies to every team but it's not just that Spurs' scoresheets are not much more than Kane and Son assisting each other while the team takes a pounding at the opposite end. It's also that Kane is their best midfielder and Son is their best wide player while both simultaneously being their best strikers. They do so much more to drag Spurs through games than just the measurable goals and assists.

Spurs have other good players, of course. Lloris has rediscovered some of the form that made him one of the best. Lo Celso and Ndombele are raw, unpolished gems. But there's a lot of mediocrity there too, especially in defence. Outside of Kane and Son, the rest of the first XI is not obviously that of a top 6 team.

Long story short, I agree.
Yep. Kane and Son, aside from being wonderful players, also seem to have telepathic-like communication, knowledge of where the other is etc. Aside from them, as you mentioned, Lo Celso and Ndombele can become great players but if you look at the rest of the team, it’s pretty bad.

A player for player summation:
Lloris - Alright but declining, potential for calamitous errors.
Aurier - Calamitous
Sanchez - Calamitous
Alderweireld - Aging, nowhere near the force he was 4 years ago.
Reguilon - Good player. I’d take him in our side hands down.
Winks/Sissoko - Painfully average
Ndombele - As you said
Lo Celso - As you said
Bale/Lucas/Bergwijn - Declining for the former, inconsistent for the two latter names.
Kane - World class
Son - World class

This is far from a great squad or one which can challenge for the title. They have some way to go yet, namely replacements for Sanchez, Alderweireld and Winks/Sissoko. I think Mourinho is the right man for them personally.
 

diarm

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Just leaving aside the hilarity of the comeback and imagine they'd gone on to win the game comfortably.

Where is he suggesting they are back to or from? When were they "here" or anywhere else for that matter to begin with?
 

archiebald

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Kane & Son are wasting their prime years in this team - years pass and yet they have never realistically challenged for anything. If dealing with Levy wasn't such a pain they'd probably have cleared off to a club with bigger ambitions by now.
 

Sky1981

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Bookmakers' odds are merely a reflection of how many people are willing to buy into a certain outcome at a particular price. That is to say that this shortening of Spurs' odds represents a large amount of betting activity on Spurs to win the league.

Of course, they also use complex algorithms to try to sway people into betting in ways that will be maximally profitable, and factor in a healthy overround so that they functionally never lose money no matter what the outcome.

So many people have an inaccurate perception of what bookies do and how they function. They make money by selling all odds at scam prices (i.e. shorter than their "real" value) rather than by accurately predicting events (which I think is what most people believe they do). There's no such thing as beating the bookies really. :p

(That and the fact that they're only semi-regulated, all operated out of tax havens, are exploitative as all hell.. Well, they're cnuts basically. Total cnuts. Don't gamble with bookies at all, friends.)
Abit out of topic.

But true bookies never take sides. Their algorithm in simple terms is just give a starting odds, and let the market take over. They would function with "commission", their aim is maximize the number of bets since they cut in both sides. In an ideal world a 1:7 odds means for every 1 United betters, there'll be 7 Non United takers. Hence the pay off is 0 but they still got the commission.

That's how they always comes up with an odd, no matter how remote or unknown the league is, because they just don't bother to be subjective about what people are willing to bet on. They just let supply/demand mechanism work their magic.

(Special not when big event is on, there could be a couple of smart guys Casino styles making weird odds but I doubt they'd want to risk that into the equation)
 

Mr H

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Totally agree. Jose calling West Ham lucky because they scored 3 in 14 mins rings hollow when they scored their 3 in the opening 15. I cant see the difference between the 2.
He's just a sore loser. He also took a jab at Moyes saying he found his new Fellaini and of course, started criticizing his players saying that they were not strong enough to cope with it psychologically as if it is not his job to make sure they do.
 

acnumber9

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To be fair, their target this season is still to just do well in the league and win Europe League. If they finish 5th and win Europe it'll be fine I believe. People thinking they would actually win the league with such center backs were really weird and I pointed it when they were winning that it's extreme exaggeration. Caf goes from one extreme to the next.
With Van Dijk out, any team that wins the league is going to have average to shit centre backs.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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That should be the touch map for a box to box centre mid not your no.9. It actually highlights a problem in itself.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s a credit to Kane that he’s got the ability to do that whilst still scoring but I think If I was the manager Id want him playing in the most dangerous areas more often.
 

1966

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Two touches in the opposition box is now where near enough though and it’s a consistent problem Spurs have.
Maybe, in the sense that he's a major source of goals for them. But it's also not really a problem, IMO, when Kane's deeper position means that half of the team has more touches in the opposition box than him. He's not supposed to be spending large amounts of time very high up the pitch anymore, especially in a game like yesterday's.

Edit: I mean, yes, it probably does represent a problem for Spurs, but the whole point, from my perspective, was to praise Kane. He saw that the defence was struggling and the midfield was being bypassed and he took it upon himself to singlehandedly fix it. His performance was excellent, even if he was let down by his team in the end.
 
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1966

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That should be the touch map for a box to box centre mid not your no.9. It actually highlights a problem in itself.
I'm only praising Kane though. I have no interest in Spurs as a team. Kane saw that there were problems in other areas of the pitch and helped out there, in addition to scoring his own two goals. It was a brilliant performance from him personally.
 

YAMS49

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I'm only praising Kane though. I have no interest in Spurs as a team. Kane saw that there were problems in other areas of the pitch and helped out there, in addition to scoring his own two goals. It was a brilliant performance from him personally.
Yep I understand that & likewise I have no interest in them. Great selfless performance from a terrific player for sure.
 

LASpurs

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Aren't these the guys who were doing "asian eyes" to Son a few seasons ago ?
Absolutely not. That was some weirdo called Vincente Spurs or something like that. Think it came out he was on the spectrum somehow.
 

duffer

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As much of a plonker as he is, Tim Sherwood should get more credit for bringing Kane through.
 

Scroto Baggins

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As much of a plonker as he is, Tim Sherwood should get more credit for bringing Kane through.
I thought Kane was tearing up the Europa league and pretty much demanded a chance in the prem based on his form and Soldado/Adebayors lack thereof? Or maybe that was under Villas Boas, Im sure a Spurs fan can clarify.
 

KirkDuyt

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Not entirely related, but does anyone have a gif of Moyes celebrating the 3-3 against Spurs this week.

It was glorious.
 

balaks

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Kane & Son are wasting their prime years in this team - years pass and yet they have never realistically challenged for anything. If dealing with Levy wasn't such a pain they'd probably have cleared off to a club with bigger ambitions by now.
Eh... Did i dream us being in a champions league final not so long ago?
 

Bale Bale Bale

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I thought Kane was tearing up the Europa league and pretty much demanded a chance in the prem based on his form and Soldado/Adebayors lack thereof? Or maybe that was under Villas Boas, Im sure a Spurs fan can clarify.
Kane started the final six PL games under Sherwood the season before Poch arrived. Poch then [understandably] tried to get the best out of Soldado and Adebayor but they weren't cutting it so Kane more or less forced himself into the side with his goals in the EL
 

André Dominguez

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Saw the highlights of last match, finaly. Can't really blame Mourinho, players totally lost focus and the team collapsed. Let's see if Rondon brings improvement.
 

mav_9me

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Maybe, in the sense that he's a major source of goals for them. But it's also not really a problem, IMO, when Kane's deeper position means that half of the team has more touches in the opposition box than him. He's not supposed to be spending large amounts of time very high up the pitch anymore, especially in a game like yesterday's.

Edit: I mean, yes, it probably does represent a problem for Spurs, but the whole point, from my perspective, was to praise Kane. He saw that the defence was struggling and the midfield was being bypassed and he took it upon himself to singlehandedly fix it. His performance was excellent, even if he was let down by his team in the end.
Agreed about his performance. But it obviously is a problem if he is your most creative player as it appears right now, cuz he is also your main goalscorer.