The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[utdalltheway]

Going for my 2nd Pfizer jab this Saturday.
I don’t have any plans for the weekend, just in case it does a number on me. It’ll be like most weekends in the past year then

My wife had her 2nd Moderna jab yesterday (at lunchtime) and apart from some chills last night she’s doing fine. She pulled a sicky today too, just in case.

We’re both mid 50s, for what it’s worth.

 

[Wibble]

Awesome news! Yeah, Biden telling everyone they have to open it up by May 1 at the latest seems to have spurred states on. Supply increase also means they know they can open up the supply to more people and younger people are often some of the most eager to get it.

Duke decided to do all J&J since students will be leaving at the end of April to go home. That way students should be fully vaccinated by the time they leave. They are probably done with all the students by now since it's been a week.

I don't know which one he is getting yet but we are delighted that he is getting it. We are amazed that he hasn't caught covid either as he lives in a student suburb. They have been pretty good (for young students) about limiting interactions between houses and they get tested weekly and isolate if necessary - only once so far after a teammate who lived in another house tested positive.

 

[Sir Matt]

I don't know which one he is getting yet but we are delighted that he is getting it. We are amazed that he hasn't caught covid either as he lives in a student suburb. They have been pretty good (for young students) about limiting interactions between houses and they get tested weekly and isolate if necessary - only once so far after a teammate who lived in another house tested positive.

That's good. Being responsible for students can be difficult, but it seems like most are doing their best.

Duke had a good fall semester with only 150ish positive cases before fraternities decided to still have rush this spring rather than waiting for fall, caused hundreds of cases, and got everyone on campus locked down for a week. Our basketball team's season was ended by a player testing positive from that spread, too.

 

[Stanley Road]

It’s been shite and frustrating for a whole variety of reasons. Though I’m under the impression this isn’t exactly exclusive to NL.

No it's eu wide

 

[RoyH1]

No it's eu wide

No, the Netherlands vaccination rate is way behind that of lets say Finland, Estonia and even a country like Spain that has really accelerated its vaccination delivery. The problem in the EU has been supply

 

[golden_blunder]

Is there ANY data to show issues with the other vaccines or is it just the AZ one?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Twitter says AZ. Unclear how long it's been since the second dose.

India has a mutant strain with 2 changes - 1 at a site also mutated in the Brazil/SA strains, and one identical to a mutation seen in California. American news story here: https://deadline.com/2021/04/double...on-india-discovered-in-california-1234727857/

Article you linked says at least one of the doctors got their second dose on March 25th. Which seems odd if they got AZ, as that would put the first dose back in January. Is that possible? Or are they giving AZ second doses with a shorter gap in India than in the UK?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Don`t know how old your dad is but I think its quite usual for old people not to feel anything with the mRNA vaccines. All my grandparents got Pfizer or Moderna and they all felt nothing (all well above 80 tho). I guess its mostly because for younger people the immune system just reacts way more agressive while for older people its not that great anymore to begin with (still means the vaccines work so don`t worry). My other favorite explanation is that old people already have a higher pain tolerance because everything is aching anyway. If a 30 year old takes the vaccine and feels trash next morning he`ll obviously say "Well side-effects are kicking in". If an 80 year old feels trash in the morning he be more like "Ah well, feels just like every morning".

The experience of your grandparents was reflected in the clinical trials, where elderly subjects tended to complain of much less adverse events. And I agree completely with the theory at the end of your post!

 

[fellwin]

Denmark will give 100.000 doses on monday (around 1.66% of total population) so thats a nice change of pace.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Denmark will give 100.000 doses on monday (around 1.66% of total population) so thats a nice change of pace.

Similar acceleration seems to be happening in most EU countries. So the “Q2 ramp up” predictions seem to be coming true. Thank feck.

 

[lynchie]

Looks like we're doing this again...

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[Pogue Mahone]

Looks like we're doing this again...

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Pain in the hoop but not entirely unexpected. J&J is another viral vector vaccine, like AZ. In a way this would be reassuring as it means it’s a vaccine class issue not something common to all covid vaccines. Which would mean that even in an absolute worst case scenario (license withdrawals) we still have options.

 

[Balljy]

Looks like we're doing this again...

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I'm not overly surprised unfortunately as it works in a similar way and also uses adenovirus as a viral vector. It will be interesting when this gets investigated as could this be a facet of adenovirus itself that's been unnoticed before?

I guess unlikely due to how common they are.

 

[zing]

I'm not overly surprised unfortunately as it works in a similar way and also uses adenovirus as a viral vector. It will be interesting when this gets investigated as could this be a facet of adenovirus itself that's been unnoticed before?

I guess unlikely due to how common they are.

What other vaccines use the adenovirus vector?

 

[Balljy]

What other vaccines use the adenovirus vector?

I know Sputnik V is and one of the Chinese ones also, but there may be others.

 

[RoyH1]

Denmark will give 100.000 doses on monday (around 1.66% of total population) so thats a nice change of pace.

Similar acceleration seems to be happening in most EU countries. So the “Q2 ramp up” predictions seem to be coming true. Thank feck.

As far as I know, it's a stress test of the vaccination programme. But yes, a lot of countries are ramping up now that Pfizer is sending more doses to Europe.

 

[Dumbstar]

What other vaccines use the adenovirus vector?

Don't flu vaccine also use this? Kids/teens are being vaccinated in schools for flu all the time. I know I have to explicitly keep turning it down for my kids every year.

 

[Traub]

If AZ and J&J are pulled globally, the world is royally fecked IMO. Those are the two vaccines for the poorer countries.

 

[jojojo]

Don't flu vaccine also use this? Kids/teens are being vaccinated in schools for flu all the time. I know I have to explicitly keep turning it down for my kids every year.

Nope. From what I've read the only successful adenovirus vaccine that was still shipping was a rabies vaccine for animals. Previous vaccines for MERS etc have tried it, but never reached the kind of efficacy evidence that they needed.

They are used in some other drugs apparently so it's fair to say that at the start of the pandemic they'd been in use for longer and in more people than the mRNA approach.

But I have seen more than one researcher suggesting this month that the adenovirus could be the trigger, and that we need to start watching Sputnik and J&J rollouts for any possible patterns.

 

[11101]

Italy is today realising it's mistake of blanket vaccination of all health care workers first. Quite rightly medical staff and those exposed to the virus went first, but Italy being Italy everybody from security guards to office admin staff have been turning up showing their NHS card for a vaccination. They think over 2 million people have skipped the line.

 

[jojojo]

If AZ and J&J are pulled globally, the world is royally fecked IMO. Those are the two vaccines for the poorer countries.

Yep, it would be a huge deal globally. We might then be looking at them being replaced with inactivated virus vaccines in some places, that will doubtless bring their own problems and risks.

Novavax have been contracted to supply hundreds of millions of doses, by covax/gavi and also by groups like the ANU but (as a firm) they've no mass production track record, so they'd need some massive partnerships to have much impact. If of course that vaccine proves to have no hidden nasties.

I think we're going to be talking risk/benefit statistics for a while.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Italy is today realising it's mistake of blanket vaccination of all health care workers first. Quite rightly medical staff and those exposed to the virus went first, but Italy being Italy everybody from security guards to office admin staff have been turning up showing their NHS card for a vaccination. They think over 2 million people have skipped the line.

Something similar - on a much smaller scale - happened in Ireland. I’m not too fussed, to be honest. It’s still small potatoes compared to the total number that need to be vaccinated and they would all be getting a jab before summer is out anyway.

 

[lynchie]

Italy is today realising it's mistake of blanket vaccination of all health care workers first. Quite rightly medical staff and those exposed to the virus went first, but Italy being Italy everybody from security guards to office admin staff have been turning up showing their NHS card for a vaccination. They think over 2 million people have skipped the line.

There was an FT piece on this today. Does seem like people have been taking the piss, and it's probably led to a bunch of other people being dead.

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[Balljy]

Nope. From what I've read the only successful adenovirus vaccine that was still shipping was a rabies vaccine for animals. Previous vaccines for MERS etc have tried it, but never reached the kind of efficacy evidence that they needed.

They are used in some other drugs apparently so it's fair to say that at the start of the pandemic they'd been in use for longer and in more people than the mRNA approach.

But I have seen more than one researcher suggesting this month that the adenovirus could be the trigger, and that we need to start watching Sputnik and J&J rollouts for any possible patterns.

I've seen an article say that the use of an adenovirus viral vector has been associated with low platelets before interestingly. It's not linked to vaccines specifically though. I'm sure they will be looking to find the cause and if there is a link to adenovirus as quickly as they can.

https://ashpublications.org/blood/a...enovirus-induced-thrombocytopenia-the-role-of

 

[Traub]

Yep, it would be a huge deal globally. We might then be looking at them being replaced with inactivated virus vaccines in some places, that will doubtless bring their own problems and risks.

Novavax have been contracted to supply hundreds of millions of doses, by covax/gavi and also by groups like the ANU but (as a firm) they've no mass production track record, so they'd need some massive partnerships to have much impact. If of course that virus proves to have no hidden nasties.

I think we're going to be talking risk/benefit statistics for a while.

Agreed. Personally I'd be more than happy to take either of those vaccines, but I can kind of see the reluctance from some.

This is the largest drug trial in humanity's history, so side effects are to be expected. For example, if every human took high blood pressure pills, I have no doubt there'd be many deaths. I suppose the problem here is not everyone (i.e. the young people) has to necessarily subject themselves to the vaccine risk.

Just regarding these two vaccines vs. inactived vaccines - would it still be right to call an adenovirus a 'dead' vaccine (like pneumonia)? Or are adenovirus vaccines a new class effectively (neither live nor dead)?

 

[11101]

There was an FT piece on this today. Does seem like people have been taking the piss, and it's probably led to a bunch of other people being dead.

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Yeah it's frustrating to read. There were supposed to be 1.4 million healthcare workers vaccinated before anybody else, but the number who actually got it was over 3.5 million. Now instead of re-focusing on the most vulnerable we are pratting about vaccinating teachers.

 

[Penna]

Italy is today realising it's mistake of blanket vaccination of all health care workers first. Quite rightly medical staff and those exposed to the virus went first, but Italy being Italy everybody from security guards to office admin staff have been turning up showing their NHS card for a vaccination. They think over 2 million people have skipped the line.

Here's a good article about it. It's a bad situation.

https://www.thelocal.it/20210409/co...e-jumping-and-speed-up-vaccines-for-over-75s/

 

[zing]

Yep, it would be a huge deal globally. We might then be looking at them being replaced with inactivated virus vaccines in some places, that will doubtless bring their own problems and risks.

Novavax have been contracted to supply hundreds of millions of doses, by covax/gavi and also by groups like the ANU but (as a firm) they've no mass production track record, so they'd need some massive partnerships to have much impact. If of course that vaccine proves to have no hidden nasties.

I think we're going to be talking risk/benefit statistics for a while.

Novavax has a big tie up with Serum India. 1 billion doses in 2021.

 

[F-Red]

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Decent thread here, first couple of the posts look at the UK, but then goes into some good data on B.1.1.7 and trends across the world.

 

[jojojo]

Today I had my third covid vaccine (or not) jab.

The clinical trial I'm on, for the Novavax vaccine, has entered a crossover stage. The idea being that if a trialist had the real Novavax vaccine jabs back in November, this month they'll get the placebo (saline solution). If they got the placebo in November, they get the real Novavax now.

Why do they bother? Well, for one thing they got a few weeks extra data out of some of us. I could have "unblinded" from the trial and got a licenced vaccine at the end of February - and would have done if I hadn't been told that they were preparing a crossover for example. They did have to unblind around 60% of the participants - who couldn't afford to wait.

They've also got all the medical histories, blood samples etc to see what changes/infections we've had in the past 6 months. Plus they're getting a lot more data on longevity of the antibodies and covid infection over time. Apparently. And apparently that's worth the money and the effort it costs.

Personally, I've become oddly committed to the vaccine and I'm kind of hoping it doesn't just add to the approved vaccine pool (as important as that is), but that it becomes a really important supplier globally. Mind you, they could do with getting some regulatory approvals now

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Anyone experiencing side affects to the jab?
Had my first Astra jab last week, and I was really poorly for a few days after. The headaches were insane, along with fever, aching, and dizziness.

 

[Coxy]

Anyone experiencing side affects to the jab?
Had my first Astra jab last week, and I was really poorly for a few days after. The headaches were insane, along with fever, aching, and dizziness.

Yes but only lasted a couple of days. It’s been a week now and the pain in my arm has finally gone.

 

[golden_blunder]

Anyone experiencing side affects to the jab?
Had my first Astra jab last week, and I was really poorly for a few days after. The headaches were insane, along with fever, aching, and dizziness.

Have you had COVID before or do you think you may have had it?

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Have you had COVID before or do you think you may have had it?

No I don't think I've had it. Haven't been sick in two years. Not even a cold.

 

[jojojo]

It's been mentioned before in this thread, but this article gives an interesting insight on part of the "why don't they just make more?" story for the vaccines. Don't take that phrase "plastic bags" as a minor thing, they're actually talking about the disposable bioreactors that the vaccines are actually made in - things that are supplied ready to take both the product and the instrumentation/sensors etc needed to monitor the production process. Things that are usually on a lead time of 3 months, but are currently on lead times of 12 months+ in some cases.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ut-threatened-by-shortage-of-vital-components

 

[djembatheking]

Had my first Pfizer jab an hour ago . All good so far.

 

[TheReligion]

Had my first Pfizer jab an hour ago . All good so far.

My mum had her first a few weeks ago and the second booked in. She's been fine.

Congrats.

 

[F-Red]

My other half has had her second Pfizer jab today, no reported side affects so far.

 

[Adamsk7]

Did anyone watch good ol’ John Campbell’s YouTube video the other day on the Thrombosis issue with AZ? He was saying it could be because potentially injections are missing the muscle and going in to a vein. Something about because it triggers local immune response (as per the manufacturers safety leaflets), if it misses the muscle and goes in to the blood stream, this could be the reason. Apparently he says he’d always recommend when a needle goes in that it’s withdrawn slightly to see if there’s no blood in the syringe first, that way you know you’re in the right place and that vaccine stations are being told not to bother with that.

Anyone with any knowledge on this want to enlighten me on whether he’s making any sense or it’s rubbish? I do find his channel very informative but like anything I take it with a pinch of salt unless it’s backed up.

 

[jojojo]

Did anyone watch good ol’ John Campbell’s YouTube video the other day on the Thrombosis issue with AZ? He was saying it could be because potentially injections are missing the muscle and going in to a vein. Something about because it triggers local immune response (as per the manufacturers safety leaflets), if it misses the muscle and goes in to the blood stream, this could be the reason. Apparently he says he’d always recommend when a needle goes in that it’s withdrawn slightly to see if there’s no blood in the syringe first, that way you know you’re in the right place and that vaccine stations are being told not to bother with that.

Anyone with any knowledge on this want to enlighten me on whether he’s making any sense or it’s rubbish? I do find his channel very informative but like anything I take it with a pinch of salt unless it’s backed up.

It's not impossible. Quite a few people have cited this paper from back in 2007 that was looking at adenovirus induced thrombocytopenia in gene therapy patients. The techie details are way beyond me, but it's not impossible that (accidentally) injecting into a vein rather that the muscle could be part of the story - and might even explain clusters of cases.

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