Television The Wire

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Started watching it again.

Last time I watched it on a 14 inch monitor so it didnt do it justice but nevertheless it found I a masterpiece then, one of the best tv shows I've seen in my life ever.

Watched 6 episodes of season 1, all the dangling and troubles about the wiring of the Avon crew and all around it.

I remember season 2 with the Greeks and the one with the kids and some policemen getting one of them out of trouble were the best. And finale was great too but I remember only the snippets. One with the major and politics (Littlefinger :D ) was good too as I recall.
 

Solius

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I watched Seasons 2 - 5 of The Wire on a small computer screen whilst I worked in a boring call centre job. Used to bring them in on a USB :lol:
 

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I watched Seasons 2 - 5 of The Wire on a small computer screen whilst I worked in a boring call centre job. Used to bring them in on a USB :lol:
Same here, cant believe I watched any of the series or movies on my small monitor back in the day and I watched plenty. Remember watching Oz on it too (anyone remembers that one?).
 

CassiusClaymore

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Finished it again earlier this week. The last few episodes make up for the boring newspaper stuff. At least the serial killer nonsense provides some excellent comedy from Bunk in particular.

Missus was especially shocked when you know who dies.
 

lsd

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It was wild. It aged extremely poorly, though. It also kinda went off the rails at some point.

Like Sons of Anarchy it went down the IRA route with both shows marking a total cringe mess of it
 

Look-a-Hill

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I had been on my 4th watch - and 2nd this year. Caught Covid over Christmas so polished off seasons 4 and 5 in three days. So good I'd be tempted to start again but I think that's overkill. There are other shows I occasionally fancy re-watching, but so many either feel like slogs or have such disappointing latter seasons I can't be bothered to get invested. The Wire has neither of those problems.
 

nimic

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I had been on my 4th watch - and 2nd this year. Caught Covid over Christmas so polished off seasons 4 and 5 in three days. So good I'd be tempted to start again but I think that's overkill. There are other shows I occasionally fancy re-watching, but so many either feel like slogs or have such disappointing latter seasons I can't be bothered to get invested. The Wire has neither of those problems.
The Wire and The Leftovers are my re-watch go-tos (on top of lighter stuff like The Office). I need a break after every re-watch of those, though, since they're fairly heavy. Band of Brothers too, come to think of it.
 

njred

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In the middle of season 2. Very good show. It’s like I found a whole new show since I skipped it years ago.
 

Rado_N

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When Michael K Williams passed I intended to re-watch the show but hadn’t got to it yet, this is really making me feel the need to start it again.
 

Rooney in Paris

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I'm on my current long overdue rewatch (must be my 4th or 5th), and I'm absolutely loving it. It's such a wonderful show, right from the start you could sense there was something special going on (though it does take a couple of episodes to get going).

I'm currently into season 3, and there's a couple of things about season 2 I wanna say. I know there is a long standing debate about this season, with a lot of viewers not particularly liking it upon first watch, and then realising when re-watching that it's actually pretty good. One of its issues is that it changes the scenery completely from season 1, you're thrust into the docks with no forward notice and the cast you got used to in season 1 is still around, but in a less omnipresent way, and you're getting used to an entire new crew, basically. It's jarring, when you see it for the first time. But when you've seen the entire series, and you understand what David Simon was aiming to do, it's quintessential The Wire and it makes perfect sense. In his idea of presenting an X-ray of a city, with all the stratas of power and all the layers of society, going to the docks was an obvious choice. It was also quite bold to have such a U-turn early on in the show.

It's of course a great season, for the reasons stated above, and for the fact it has some good plot elements - tying into season 1, Stringer leveraging Avon's incarceration to pivot their business and make efforts to go legit is interesting (it's about the only interesting plot point from the projects side of the story, however). The Greeks/docks storyline is very good, and well executed. It's got some great characters, Nicky is endearing, Spiros/The Greek are great, a lot of the docks supporting cast feels genuine, and of course Frank Sobotka is one of the greatest characters of the show. The complexity of the guy, struggling for his people and having to reconcile dishonest behaviour with his principles, is a very classic tragic figure, but it works super well. I would just say that in my current more mild-mannered affectations, I do find him a bit too prone to launch into an intense, passionate monologue.

Dolores: Do you want a coffee Frank?
Frank (looks away, in disbelief, raspy voice): A coffee? Do I want a coffee? Did the dockers back in 1953 have coffee when they were busting their backs unloading those shipments down at the docks? Do the guys down at IBS local 47 get to have coffee when they come in after waking up at dawn, hoping to get their cards punched for an honest day's work? Do I want a fecking coffee Dolores? No I don't want a coffee. I want fair and decent work for my guys and dignity for the working man in America. We used to make shit in this country. Now we drink coffee. Also something about draining the canal.

I mean it's fine, it works overall, but it's also a litte bit one-note. Still a great character though and a reason why I do love that season.

Buuuuut...

There's also a lot of issues with the season. And not "oh it's a different storyline, this is weird, this doesn't feel like The Wire" issues. Proper issues:
- editing is all over the place; it clearly hadn't yet come to grasps with having so many different characters to follow (it handles it a lot better in the following seasons), and there are a lot of really weird useless shots of various characters that bring nothing to the story; McNulty is particularly useless in this season;
- the projects storyline is overall really boring, as is the Avon/D'Angelo prison one;
- in general, the story meanders a bit, and apart from the docks storyline which is quite tight, seems unfocused and for some parts unresolved;
- Ziggy is a really shit, caricatural character; I don't know where this rehabilitation of Ziggy that seems to occur now and then comes from, he is genuinely really poorly written, and anything he brings to the story could've been done in a more subtle, intelligent way; the actor was fine, but there's so many really shit Ziggy moments;
- Brother Mouzone is introduced in this season, and the less said about his character, the better; in a show so grounded in realism, with an almost naturalistic approach, a cartoon cut-out character like his just sticks out like a sore thumb; not quite sure what was going through the writers' minds when they conjured him up, because it could've been very easy to get the same results of that storyline with "impressive, ominous muscle from outta town" without going doing the caricature route.

Some of these are more minor details, some are a little more problematic, but I definitely feel that the overall discourse of season 2 is sometimes distorted because the initial dislike for it is due to elements that make sense afterwards, and people reevaluate it with that in mind - which is great. But it often ignores some actual, real issues in storytelling and editing, that make it a little weird to watch, even after a few times. I'll see after rewatching the whole thing, but I'd probably rank it as one of the "worst" seasons, after season 5 (though being the second worst season of The Wire still makes you much better than most shows).
 

Solius

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I'm on my current long overdue rewatch (must be my 4th or 5th), and I'm absolutely loving it. It's such a wonderful show, right from the start you could sense there was something special going on (though it does take a couple of episodes to get going).

I'm currently into season 3, and there's a couple of things about season 2 I wanna say. I know there is a long standing debate about this season, with a lot of viewers not particularly liking it upon first watch, and then realising when re-watching that it's actually pretty good. One of its issues is that it changes the scenery completely from season 1, you're thrust into the docks with no forward notice and the cast you got used to in season 1 is still around, but in a less omnipresent way, and you're getting used to an entire new crew, basically. It's jarring, when you see it for the first time. But when you've seen the entire series, and you understand what David Simon was aiming to do, it's quintessential The Wire and it makes perfect sense. In his idea of presenting an X-ray of a city, with all the stratas of power and all the layers of society, going to the docks was an obvious choice. It was also quite bold to have such a U-turn early on in the show.

It's of course a great season, for the reasons stated above, and for the fact it has some good plot elements - tying into season 1, Stringer leveraging Avon's incarceration to pivot their business and make efforts to go legit is interesting (it's about the only interesting plot point from the projects side of the story, however). The Greeks/docks storyline is very good, and well executed. It's got some great characters, Nicky is endearing, Spiros/The Greek are great, a lot of the docks supporting cast feels genuine, and of course Frank Sobotka is one of the greatest characters of the show. The complexity of the guy, struggling for his people and having to reconcile dishonest behaviour with his principles, is a very classic tragic figure, but it works super well. I would just say that in my current more mild-mannered affectations, I do find him a bit too prone to launch into an intense, passionate monologue.

Dolores: Do you want a coffee Frank?
Frank (looks away, in disbelief, raspy voice): A coffee? Do I want a coffee? Did the dockers back in 1953 have coffee when they were busting their backs unloading those shipments down at the docks? Do the guys down at IBS local 47 get to have coffee when they come in after waking up at dawn, hoping to get their cards punched for an honest day's work? Do I want a fecking coffee Dolores? No I don't want a coffee. I want fair and decent work for my guys and dignity for the working man in America. We used to make shit in this country. Now we drink coffee. Also something about draining the canal.

I mean it's fine, it works overall, but it's also a litte bit one-note. Still a great character though and a reason why I do love that season.

Buuuuut...

There's also a lot of issues with the season. And not "oh it's a different storyline, this is weird, this doesn't feel like The Wire" issues. Proper issues:
- editing is all over the place; it clearly hadn't yet come to grasps with having so many different characters to follow (it handles it a lot better in the following seasons), and there are a lot of really weird useless shots of various characters that bring nothing to the story; McNulty is particularly useless in this season;
- the projects storyline is overall really boring, as is the Avon/D'Angelo prison one;
- in general, the story meanders a bit, and apart from the docks storyline which is quite tight, seems unfocused and for some parts unresolved;
- Ziggy is a really shit, caricatural character; I don't know where this rehabilitation of Ziggy that seems to occur now and then comes from, he is genuinely really poorly written, and anything he brings to the story could've been done in a more subtle, intelligent way; the actor was fine, but there's so many really shit Ziggy moments;
- Brother Mouzone is introduced in this season, and the less said about his character, the better; in a show so grounded in realism, with an almost naturalistic approach, a cartoon cut-out character like his just sticks out like a sore thumb; not quite sure what was going through the writers' minds when they conjured him up, because it could've been very easy to get the same results of that storyline with "impressive, ominous muscle from outta town" without going doing the caricature route.

Some of these are more minor details, some are a little more problematic, but I definitely feel that the overall discourse of season 2 is sometimes distorted because the initial dislike for it is due to elements that make sense afterwards, and people reevaluate it with that in mind - which is great. But it often ignores some actual, real issues in storytelling and editing, that make it a little weird to watch, even after a few times. I'll see after rewatching the whole thing, but I'd probably rank it as one of the "worst" seasons, after season 5 (though being the second worst season of The Wire still makes you much better than most shows).
I'd agree with most of that. I did enjoy S2 more on rewatch but personally I still found the dock storyline pretty boring. Ziggy was awful and even worse than I remembered, and same with Mouzone.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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I'm on my current long overdue rewatch (must be my 4th or 5th), and I'm absolutely loving it. It's such a wonderful show, right from the start you could sense there was something special going on (though it does take a couple of episodes to get going).

I'm currently into season 3, and there's a couple of things about season 2 I wanna say. I know there is a long standing debate about this season, with a lot of viewers not particularly liking it upon first watch, and then realising when re-watching that it's actually pretty good. One of its issues is that it changes the scenery completely from season 1, you're thrust into the docks with no forward notice and the cast you got used to in season 1 is still around, but in a less omnipresent way, and you're getting used to an entire new crew, basically. It's jarring, when you see it for the first time. But when you've seen the entire series, and you understand what David Simon was aiming to do, it's quintessential The Wire and it makes perfect sense. In his idea of presenting an X-ray of a city, with all the stratas of power and all the layers of society, going to the docks was an obvious choice. It was also quite bold to have such a U-turn early on in the show.

It's of course a great season, for the reasons stated above, and for the fact it has some good plot elements - tying into season 1, Stringer leveraging Avon's incarceration to pivot their business and make efforts to go legit is interesting (it's about the only interesting plot point from the projects side of the story, however). The Greeks/docks storyline is very good, and well executed. It's got some great characters, Nicky is endearing, Spiros/The Greek are great, a lot of the docks supporting cast feels genuine, and of course Frank Sobotka is one of the greatest characters of the show. The complexity of the guy, struggling for his people and having to reconcile dishonest behaviour with his principles, is a very classic tragic figure, but it works super well. I would just say that in my current more mild-mannered affectations, I do find him a bit too prone to launch into an intense, passionate monologue.

Dolores: Do you want a coffee Frank?
Frank (looks away, in disbelief, raspy voice): A coffee? Do I want a coffee? Did the dockers back in 1953 have coffee when they were busting their backs unloading those shipments down at the docks? Do the guys down at IBS local 47 get to have coffee when they come in after waking up at dawn, hoping to get their cards punched for an honest day's work? Do I want a fecking coffee Dolores? No I don't want a coffee. I want fair and decent work for my guys and dignity for the working man in America. We used to make shit in this country. Now we drink coffee. Also something about draining the canal.

I mean it's fine, it works overall, but it's also a litte bit one-note. Still a great character though and a reason why I do love that season.

Buuuuut...

There's also a lot of issues with the season. And not "oh it's a different storyline, this is weird, this doesn't feel like The Wire" issues. Proper issues:
- editing is all over the place; it clearly hadn't yet come to grasps with having so many different characters to follow (it handles it a lot better in the following seasons), and there are a lot of really weird useless shots of various characters that bring nothing to the story; McNulty is particularly useless in this season;
- the projects storyline is overall really boring, as is the Avon/D'Angelo prison one;
- in general, the story meanders a bit, and apart from the docks storyline which is quite tight, seems unfocused and for some parts unresolved;
- Ziggy is a really shit, caricatural character; I don't know where this rehabilitation of Ziggy that seems to occur now and then comes from, he is genuinely really poorly written, and anything he brings to the story could've been done in a more subtle, intelligent way; the actor was fine, but there's so many really shit Ziggy moments;
- Brother Mouzone is introduced in this season, and the less said about his character, the better; in a show so grounded in realism, with an almost naturalistic approach, a cartoon cut-out character like his just sticks out like a sore thumb; not quite sure what was going through the writers' minds when they conjured him up, because it could've been very easy to get the same results of that storyline with "impressive, ominous muscle from outta town" without going doing the caricature route.

Some of these are more minor details, some are a little more problematic, but I definitely feel that the overall discourse of season 2 is sometimes distorted because the initial dislike for it is due to elements that make sense afterwards, and people reevaluate it with that in mind - which is great. But it often ignores some actual, real issues in storytelling and editing, that make it a little weird to watch, even after a few times. I'll see after rewatching the whole thing, but I'd probably rank it as one of the "worst" seasons, after season 5 (though being the second worst season of The Wire still makes you much better than most shows).
We used to make shit in this country, build shit. Now we just put our hand in the next guys pocket.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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I need to rewatch this. Remember about ten twelve years ago a mate lending the dvds to me and the first few EPs of S1 were so slow I almost turned off.

What a masterpiece.
 

arnie_ni

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I'd agree with most of that. I did enjoy S2 more on rewatch but personally I still found the dock storyline pretty boring. Ziggy was awful and even worse than I remembered, and same with Mouzone.
Detested ziggy and probably the main reason I don't like season 2.
 

cafecillos

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I'm not sure I agree with the Ziggy/Mouzone criticisms. Yes, they are caricatures and feel very jarring, but I think that was exactly the point. They are perhaps "poorly" written from a technical point of view, but I'm 100% there were real people very much like Ziggy and Mouzone in 90s and 00s Baltimore. Sometimes, when we "demand" realism, we forget reality is absolutely bonkers more often than not, particularly in environments like those.
 

2cents

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I think Ziggy’s ok as a character. Mouzone no way.
 

VorZakone

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Is Mouzone really that out-of-the-place? Reminds me of Nation of Islam muscle.