Thiago Alc*ntara | Still exists

[B. Munich]

Thiago is still a valuable player, but he is a typical system player. He shines in a team playing possession football and high press like Bayern or Barcelona did. He would perfectly fit into the current Man City side. However, playing for a Klopp team where it is all about quick transitions a player like Thiago will always struggle or needs a long time to adapt.

That's why I never understood that Klopp wanted him and even less so I understood Thiago who wanted particularly join Liverpool only .

 

[Threesus]

@Zehner has more knowledge in his toe than the rest of us combined. All hail football doctor.

Herr zehner

 

[Threesus]

Think it's a style thing. Thiago is a very good player, but not a good fit for Klopp's system. Think he'd be excellent for us, actually.

I don’t know about that. I think all these ‘don’t fit the system’ have only been in vogue in the past 10 years. If you are a WC player, you should be able to play for any team, no? People make these excuses for Donny all the time. Maybe the answer is quite simple: he is just not that good.

 

[Sylar]

The thread title

He becomes even more of a passenger when the ref books him early (I know, its rare). The issue for him is hes not in sync with the rest of the squad and their style. Liverpool depend on early balls to the front three to utilitise the space and causes errors for the defence. Thiago wont give you that, and with Henderson dropping deep, they miss that. Liverpool dont dominate the ball, so hes a wrong piece to have there.

But even so, hes looked worse than I thought he would.

 

[FahadiHossein]

I don’t know about that. I think all these ‘don’t fit the system’ have only been in vogue in the past 10 years. If you are a WC player, you should be able to play for any team, no? People make these excuses for Donny all the time. Maybe the answer is quite simple: he is just not that good.

I don't agree with you. The nature of play in the PL and the style of some coaches do make a difference. It is just like how Veron never gelled into the United midfield, and Drogba outperformed both of Serie A's best strikers, Sheva and Crespo, at Chelsea. Even when Moyes decided to throw 40 million pounds into Mata, I thought it was a big decision, because Moyes needed a Leon Osman kind of winger for Felliani, but Mata would cut in and get into the box more often.

 

[Cast5]

“System player”

I’m off to the Football phrases that grind your gears thread.

 

[Pablo18th]

I don’t know about that. I think all these ‘don’t fit the system’ have only been in vogue in the past 10 years. If you are a WC player, you should be able to play for any team, no? People make these excuses for Donny all the time. Maybe the answer is quite simple: he is just not that good.

Exactly my sentiments. World class players play many systems if you can't adapt you're not world class.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Quite sickening.
Good player, seems a good guy, but hope he bombs massively.

This guy jinxed it in the first reply in the thread

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Who is the better player? Pogba or Thiago?

The question should be McTominay or Thiago and the answer will still be our player

 

[Crustanoid]

The question should be McTominay or Thiago and the answer will still be our player

Kleberson had a more impressive tenure in the UK. That’s probably the most legitimate comparison

 

[Godfather]

Really? Pogba has really dug in this season when it has got tough and we have really missed him in the last couple of league games to get us over the line. He’s scored the winning goal in two 1-0 wins recently and his range of passing and work rate (yes, his work rate) are streets ahead of the fingerer.

This. The comparison isn't valid at all

 

[Renegade]

Exactly my sentiments. World class players play many systems if you can't adapt you're not world class.

I disagree. Zidane & Iniesta would look a shell of themselves in Klopps run cross run cross midfield system.

There’s a element in truth in what you say but the manager has to take responsibility and set up to get the best from your players.

 

[Jonno]

Bayern knew what they were doing

 

[Judas]

Thiago "to me to you" Alcantara is genius.

Before the CL at the end of the season I had massive doubt he could do the job people say he was able to do, and the one he's doing for Liverpool currently, didn't see it, never had. Then those few games for Bayern hoodwinked me and thought maybe I was wrong.

I'll be interesting to see how he does next season with a fully fit team around him, but I really doubt he'll ever truly make sense in that team.

 

[Oranges038]

Thiago is still a valuable player, but he is a typical system player. He shines in a team playing possession football and high press like Bayern or Barcelona did. He would perfectly fit into the current Man City side. However, playing for a Klopp team where it is all about quick transitions a player like Thiago will always struggle or needs a long time to adapt.

That's why I never understood that Klopp wanted him and even less so I understood Thiago who wanted particularly join Liverpool only .

I've defended him before, he is a good player, the long injury lay off didn't help him either. I think Klopp brought him to change his style to a more controlled game rather than the hoofball we witnessed the last couple of years. Van Dijk being out has scuppered that as he couldn't put Fabinho/Henderson and Thiago into midfield together to get it working. But what is clear now that he is really struggling to adapt to the physicality of the league, he might need more time but it's not really on his side.

Based on his performances so far this season would you have him back at Bayern?

 

[tomaldinho1]

I disagree. Zidane & Iniesta would look a shell of themselves in Klopps run cross run cross midfield system.

There’s a element in truth in what you say but the manager has to take responsibility and set up to get the best from your players.

Prime Zidane walks into any PL team

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Has he even won a game at Anfield yet

 

[Renegade]

Prime Zidane walks into any PL team

That wasn’t what I said. How do you think he’d perform in that Klopp midfield 3?

 

[tomaldinho1]

That wasn’t what I said. How do you think he’d perform in that Klopp midfield 3?

He’d be incredible. Not sure if you saw him play or are just going down the line of technical players aren’t workhorses but Zidane was an absolute beast as well as being technical.

 

[united_99]

Zidane was several levels above anything Thiago has ever shown. He would walk into any team in Europe.

 

[DWelbz19]

Genuinely not sure who you mean

You wouldn’t be. Pogba’s been eons better throughout his entire time here. He’s never served up consistent shite like Thiago has for this long. It’s just agenda posters.

 

[simplyared]

Watched him closely yesterday and tbh he contributes very little to the team. He's the least Liverpool need right now. A player who was to be the icing on the cake is becoming more of a spanner in the works.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I disagree. Zidane & Iniesta would look a shell of themselves in Klopps run cross run cross midfield system.

There’s a element in truth in what you say but the manager has to take responsibility and set up to get the best from your players.

No, considering they were miles better as footballers than Thiago the team would adapt to all time greats of the game and be better for it. Livepool aren't even a really mental gegen pressing team anymore.

 

[One Night Only]

I liked how while he was injured he was the greatest player ever, and once he was back Liverpool would batter everyone 10-0.

The comeback happens and all he has managed to do is hack people down and look confused.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

That wasn’t what I said. How do you think he’d perform in that Klopp midfield 3?

He'd be frighteningly good.

 

[Lay]

Thiago is too slow

 

[Renegade]

I don’t need reminding how good Zidane was or need to be told he was levels above Thiago. I’m aware. My point is you couldn’t simply drop him in that Liverpool system and expect him to perform the same. It’s nothing to do with Zidane but more about how Klopp sets this liverpool midfield up. Work rate and pressing > ability. You’re crazy if you think Zidane would be running around after players and the ball all game. Or if he was in the forward 3 pressing relentlessly and waiting for crosses to come in from the full backs.

This attitude is what had people scared about Thiago joining Liverpool in the first place. He hasn’t become a bad player over night.

 

[Drainy]

They will be relieved to have finally found a replacement for Joe Allen

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don’t need reminding how good Zidane was or need to be told he was levels above Thiago. I’m aware. My point is you couldn’t simply drop him in that Liverpool system and expect him to perform the same. It’s nothing to do with Zidane but more about how Klopp sets this liverpool midfield up. Work rate and pressing > ability. You’re crazy if you think Zidane would be running around after players and the ball all game. Or if he was in the forward 3 pressing relentlessly and waiting for crosses to come in from the full backs.

You don't seem aware really. Considering you seem hell bent on absolving Thiago and pinning it all the system. Firstly you mustn't have watched much of Iniesta in his prime. His Barca were possibly the best pressing team I've ever seen and he played in its midfield. Zidane was so good the team would find a way to make it work given he was thrice the player Thiago would ever be and not struggle to show his qualified. What next? Messi of 14-15 wouldn't be incredible for Livepool because it was after his pressing days?

Plus, this whole "pick a player from era A and drop him in era B" is silly. Players generally are reflection on the systems they grow up in. Firmino may not have been much of a work horse if he played in the 70s. feck knows.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I disagree. Zidane & Iniesta would look a shell of themselves in Klopps run cross run cross midfield system.

ha ha, come on man!

 

[Renegade]

You don't seem aware really. Considering you seem hell bent on absolving Thiago and pinning it all the system. Firstly you mustn't have watched much of Iniesta in his prime. His Barca were possibly the best pressing team I've ever seen and he played in its midfield. Zidane was so good the team would find a way to make it work given he was thrice the player Thiago would ever be and not struggle to show his qualified. What next? Messi of 14-15 wouldn't be incredible for Livepool because it was after his pressing days?

Plus, this whole "pick a player from era A and drop him in era B" is silly. Players generally are reflection on the systems they grow up in. Firmino may not have been much of a work horse if he played in the 70s. feck knows.

Messi we know can perform the false 9/inside right forward role that Firmino and Salah play. Yes Messi of 14/15 would blow their performances out the water. However I’m not talking about their forwards. Liverpool’s midfield is different, Klopps expectation of his midfielders is work hard and get the balls to the full backs. That’s it! Wijnaldum has 0 assists in 2 years for that reason. I’m not confident you could ask Zidane to perform the same way and expect the same results.

It doesn’t even have to be a player from the previous era, that was just an example. I’d say the same for Toni Kroos. Drop him in this system and ask him to perform the roles of Fabinho and Henderson and he’d more likely under perform too.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Poor mans Mark Noble.

 

[FortBoyard]

Poor mans Mark Noble.

True Noble has scored a goal in a win at Anfield. Will Thiago ever score or win there?

 

[MadDogg]

You don't seem aware really. Considering you seem hell bent on absolving Thiago and pinning it all the system. Firstly you mustn't have watched much of Iniesta in his prime. His Barca were possibly the best pressing team I've ever seen and he played in its midfield. Zidane was so good the team would find a way to make it work given he was thrice the player Thiago would ever be and not struggle to show his qualified. What next? Messi of 14-15 wouldn't be incredible for Livepool because it was after his pressing days?

Plus, this whole "pick a player from era A and drop him in era B" is silly. Players generally are reflection on the systems they grow up in. Firmino may not have been much of a work horse if he played in the 70s. feck knows.

Iniesta would be fine I agree. I tend to agree with Renegade about Zidane though. Liverpool would have to change their entire setup and style to get the best out of Zidane, and I don't think it would be worth it. Zidane was obviously an incredible big game player but in terms of game after game consistency in the league he was never the best.

 

[The Corinthian]

Thiago is awful.

Hasn't adapted to the pace of the PL at all. Was coasting in the Bundesliga, but then again, anyone playing for Bayern in that league does. If anything, the PL is a clear step up, and perhaps a step too far, for Bundesliga players to make. Haavertz, Werner, now Thiago all struggling with the PL.

Hope Klopp plays him in every game possible.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ooooh you are gonna feel the wrath now my man

 

[The Corinthian]

Ooooh you are gonna feel the wrath now my man

 

[Pablo18th]

I disagree. Zidane & Iniesta would look a shell of themselves in Klopps run cross run cross midfield system.

There’s a element in truth in what you say but the manager has to take responsibility and set up to get the best from your players.

Did you actually watch both play? Klopp would build the team around them like he did with Mario Gotze.

 

[Tom8700]

I wonder what will happen to him at the end of the season. Klopp will surely step down and I doubt the new coach will be interested in him. The problem is also that Liverpool still ows Bayern a ton of money. The best situation for everyone would be to let him back to Bayern. Liverpool would save lots of money on a player they do not need, Bayern would get a player for free, Thiago could save his career, his wife and kids could live in a beautiful place again. It should be a no brainer really.

 

[gibers]

Don't think it has anything to do with systems. It's his particular role in the team. He's the deepest and he ends up running forward and losing the ball. Pep used to scream at him at Bayern for over dribbling. He should be playing one of the 2 cms but becuase of injuires he's playing as the deepest. He'll be fine when Henderson and Fabinho are behind him.

Bayern played at a similar pace (maybe even faster) than Prime Liverpool.