Thomas Tuchel | Gone to & from Bayern (In Summer)

[MayosNoun]

He is good but very over rated imo. This season was a small disaster giving their squad and the supposed WC quality of the manager. Next season we will have a more complete picture of how good he really is but the signs are not as great as the media paints them.

Very harsh. CL quarter final, 3rd in the league and two cup finals

His system has shown a weakness this season which wasn’t as evident last year. A huge reliance on the full backs and when James and Chilwell were injured it really hampered us in attack and defence.

Christensen and Rudiger will leave.

We should sell and upgrade on Alonso, Jorginho, Lukaku and Ziyech.

It’s a difficult transition as ideally, Rudiger would stay and we would upgrade the right centre back. Chilwell and James to start next season and sign or promote back up. Alonso slows our play down too often and is brutal defensively.

Kante is still quality but he’s definitely lost a step. Kovacic, Kante and new holding midfielder would be preferred. Someone creative like De Bruyne doesn’t come along often and if they do, we sell them.

If we sell Lukaku and sign a striker that would be great. We don’t have a great record at signing strikers though. A goal scoring wide player would be ideal but we had one, sold him to Roma and now he’s ripping it apart at Liverpool (pattern emerging here).

We have had a lot of injuries, a lot of background drama and disruption. We have still managed to compete and Tuchel deserves huge credit for that.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Not nonsense at all, was a record signing at the time been here 2 seasons now and you can count on 2 hands how many good games he's actually had.
Was good in the second half but atrocious in the second, Huh?.
Kante along with James were our best players yesterday. Kante coming to the end, Kante first 2 seasons were alot lot better than Havertz.
Havertz has 2 more league goals, and 1 more goal in all competitions despite playing more minutes.

Sorry, good in the first half and atrocious in the second. Two more brainfarts leading to another goal conceded - after being the biggest reason we went out against Madrid. He's clearly past his best yet is still talked about like he's world class - between the two of them Havertz is pretty clearly better at what he does than Kante is at this point.

 

[jackal&hyde]

He has the third best squad in the league and is going to finish...third?

By a long distance though. Did we have the second best squad last year? Or the 3ed the year before? Maybe I'm over rating Chelsea's squad but I think they should have challenged. On paper, safe for a couple of positions I think they are up there with Pool.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

He is good but very over rated imo. This season was a small disaster giving their squad and the supposed WC quality of the manager. Next season we will have a more complete picture of how good he really is but the signs are not as great as the media paints them.

How can he be overrated when he is going to finish right where he should with the squad he has [most likely]? Got to 2 Fa cup finals , league cup final, won that stupid CWC nonsense; and won a CL within an 18 month period of joining.

He is the 3rd best manager in the league id say, Conte a very close 4th. He is not over or under-rated

The old cliche again, but that squad contains one permanent signing of his tenure... Lukaku. I'd argue Saul was not his choice

 

[Red the Bear]

He probably would have made th cl semi final if they didn't go for the 4th straight away.
Kante and mendy plus the dubious decision on alonso's goal screwed them as well.

 

[mctrials23]

Injuries to Chilwell and James derailed their season. If they replace Lukaku and strengthen in a few other areas they will compete IMO.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Very harsh. CL quarter final, 3rd in the league and two cup finals

His system has shown a weakness this season which wasn’t as evident last year. A huge reliance on the full backs and when James and Chilwell were injured it really hampered us in attack and defence.

Christensen and Rudiger will leave.

We should sell and upgrade on Alonso, Jorginho, Lukaku and Ziyech.

It’s a difficult transition as ideally, Rudiger would stay and we would upgrade the right centre back. Chilwell and James to start next season and sign or promote back up. Alonso slows our play down too often and is brutal defensively.

Kante is still quality but he’s definitely lost a step. Kovacic, Kante and new holding midfielder would be preferred. Someone creative like De Bruyne doesn’t come along often and if they do, we sell them.

If we sell Lukaku and sign a striker that would be great. We don’t have a great record at signing strikers though. A goal scoring wide player would be ideal but we had one, sold him to Roma and now he’s ripping it apart at Liverpool (pattern emerging here).

We have had a lot of injuries, a lot of background drama and disruption. We have still managed to compete and Tuchel deserves huge credit for that.

Yeah, I know it's harsh. But I rate that squad a lot and I do think he is a very good manager. I expected an Ancelotti type job (as he does at Madrid) and be able to compete. You can't tell me that you expected to be as far from the top 2 as you are this season? It's been very disappointing is all I'm saying.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

City are just ridiculously good as are Lpool, but i did feel we had the better of Pool in both league games which were draws, and if not for James' red card, would have won at Anfield

 

[jackal&hyde]

How can he be overrated when he is going to finish right where he should with the squad he has [most likely]? Got to 2 Fa cup finals , league cup final, won that stupid CWC nonsense; and won a CL within an 18 month period of joining.

He is the 3rd best manager in the league id say, Conte a very close 4th. He is not over or under-rated

The old cliche again, but that squad contains one permanent signing of his tenure... Lukaku. I'd argue Saul was not his choice

So you expected to be with no chance of 2ed let alone first? If so, then fair enough, I must be over rating the squad. How many more 100 mil players you think are needed to compete for second? Lego Pep is caching up and United will not have another disaster season so those signings need to come fast.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

So you expected to be with no chance of 2ed let alone first? If so, then fair enough, I must be over rating the squad. How many more 100 mil players you think are needed to compete for second? Lego Pep is caching up and United will not have another disaster season so those signings need to come fast.

I'd like to see TT backed fully and see what he can do with the team after that. But before the season id have thought 3rd would be fair, really.

 

[1905]

By a long distance though. Did we have the second best squad last year? Or the 3ed the year before? Maybe I'm over rating Chelsea's squad but I think they should have challenged. On paper, safe for a couple of positions I think they are up there with Pool.

This is probably it. Our options in defence and midfield are up there with the best in the league, but our wingers/attacking mids are not. We have a lot of depth there, but the actual quality is lacking. The only one good enough, often enough has been Mount, and for a team wanting to challenge for the title its not enough. Pulisic/Werner/Ziyech/Hudson-Odoi/Havertz have all been either terribly inconsistent or outright not good enough. There are levels and these are not on the level of what City and Liverpool have. That's the difference.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Well see this is where I would disagree - Liverpool were absolutely not the best side in the CL in 2005 given they finished 2nd in their group and had to get a ghost goal in the semis vs Chelsea to go through. In contrast with our campaign last year, we were in a losing position for I believe a grand total of 5 minutes during the entire competition - 4 minutes between Krasnodar going ahead and our equalizer in the dead rubber group stage match and one minute of stoppage time when Porto scored to make it 2-1 on aggregate.

My only point is that if you sit down and look at the CL specifically, Chelsea's run last year is about as dominant as anyone's in the history of the competition and labeling it a fluke in any way shape or form seems quite harsh.

Well they won it, Fergie didn't, Mourinho didn't, Ancelotti didn't. Other than the "ghost goal" which is just part of football, they beat what was in front of them. The point I was making about Tuchel is that by the time it got to the semis it was very tight and really any of the teams could have won it, I wonder if part of what pushed his team over the edge is the fact that approached the knockout stages during a new manager bounce. In the same way Ole managed to beat Tuchel's team who were far better. Not wholly discrediting him at all just saying that based on his previous jobs the jury is still out (slightly) and that he may need to do a little more to be talked about the way he often is.

Absolutely no discredit to your Champions League win.

 

[jackal&hyde]

I'd like to see TT backed fully and see what he can do with the team after that. But before the season id have thought 3rd would be fair, really.

This is probably it. Our options in defence and midfield are up there with the best in the league, but our wingers/attacking mids are not. We have a lot of depth there, but the actual quality is lacking. The only one good enough, often enough has been Mount, and for a team wanting to challenge for the title its not enough. Pulisic/Werner/Ziyech/Hudson-Odoi/Havertz have all been either terribly inconsistent or outright not good enough. There are levels and these are not on the level of what City and Liverpool have. That's the difference.

Ok fair enough. I rate Pulisic/Werner/Ziyech/Hudson-Odoi/Havertz as very good attacking options, but they under performed no doubt. I don't even want to calculate how much money in attacking talent that is, and it doesn't even include Lukaku. So if you think the manager is great, then are the recruiting department super rubbish? I was led to believe you lot had one of the best staff in that department.

 

[1905]

Ok fair enough. I rate Pulisic/Werner/Ziyech/Hudson-Odoi/Havertz as very good attacking options, but they under performed no doubt. I don't even want to calculate how much money in attacking talent that is, and it doesn't even include Lukaku. So if you think the manager is great, then are the recruiting department super rubbish? I was led to believe you lot had one of the best staff in that department.

Mostly yes. Marina is in charge of negotiating incoming/outgoing transfers but whoever is identifying these players has not been good at all. We needed a striker but when getting Lukaku we either didn't consider our playing style, the teams whom we face playing style, or overrated Lukaku's qualities to adapt. At Inter he played in a low block counter attacking side, which he thrives in. Here we have a possession team playing against parked buses every week. We signed a player with the complete opposite profile to what we needed.

To go from Hazard/Willian/Pedro to what we have now is an absolute tragic downgrade considering the money we spent. Even taking out Hazard, Willian was super reliable in possession, on transitions, and actually resembled a good technical footballer. Pedro was always a threat with his runs in behind and finishing. Says a lot that Arsenal and Spurs have better options than us in these areas. If we had Martinelli/Odegaard/Saka for instance instead of Werner/Pulisic/Ziyech I have no doubt we'd be seriously challenging for the league.

 

[Rojofiam]

He has the third best squad in the league and is going to finish...third?

I rate Tuchel, but how can you look at it like that The best points tally they can get is 81, but would need 5 wins out of 5 for that. Is that the level of the current Chelsea squad in your opinion?

 

[jackal&hyde]

Mostly yes. Marina is in charge of negotiating incoming/outgoing transfers but whoever is identifying these players has not been good at all. We needed a striker but when getting Lukaku we either didn't consider our playing style, the teams whom we face playing style, or overrated Lukaku's qualities to adapt. At Inter he played in a low block counter attacking side, which he thrives in. Here we have a possession team playing against parked buses every week. We signed a player with the complete opposite profile to what we needed.

To go from Hazard/Willian/Pedro to what we have now is an absolute tragic downgrade considering the money we spent. Even taking out Hazard, Willian was super reliable in possession, on transitions, and actually resembled a good technical footballer. Pedro was always a threat with his runs in behind and finishing. Says a lot that Arsenal and Spurs have better options than us in these areas. If we had Martinelli/Odegaard/Saka for instance instead of Werner/Pulisic/Ziyech I have no doubt we'd be seriously challenging for the league.

I get it. The way you describe it is very similar to United. Lots of money spent but with little head. Funny as I thought Chelsea was supposed to have been one of the better run clubs in this area.

Like I've said, I rate the manager, but this season has been much, much worse then most people thought. Unrealistic expectations maybe or maybe just an off season and next with a couple of his own players he starts competing.

 

[Dancfc]

I get it. The way you describe it is very similar to United. Lots of money spent but with little head. Funny as I thought Chelsea was supposed to have been one of the better run clubs in this area.

Like I've said, I rate the manager, but this season has been much, much worse then most people thought. Unrealistic expectations maybe or maybe just an off season and next with a couple of his own players he starts competing.

Having to play on through December with multiple injuries and Covid cases while other clubs got their games rearragend for as little as one. We went to Molineaux with all three forwards out and 4 outfield substitutes them being a half fit Kova, Sarr, Barkley and Saul.

Even Klopp suffered greatly last season when his team was striken.

Would we have won the league without that period? Probably not but we'd have been an outsider in my opinion.

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

I rate Tuchel, but how can you look at it like that The best points tally they can get is 81, but would need 5 wins out of 5 for that. Is that the level of the current Chelsea squad in your opinion?

Yes?

 

[WeePat]

It's funny because there is both overrating and underrating of Tuchel going on this thread and it almost seems like each side is just reacting to what the other side is saying about Tuchel and Chelsea.

 

[Orc]

Look how incredible Reece James has been once again recently. And that’s coming off a recent long term injury. I expect that Chilwell to return to his level next season as well. We are a totally different team with those two fit and firing.

We 100% need to move Lukaku and bring in a technically gifted and clinical attacker and we will be golden. Love the look of Nkunku.

 

[Berbasbullet]

It's funny because there is both overrating and underrating of Tuchel going on this thread and it almost seems like each side is just reacting to what the other side is saying about Tuchel and Chelsea.

Welcome to 2022.

 

[horsechoker]

Needs to be sacked before he turns into Rangnick (who is the worst manager of all time)

 

[MayosNoun]

Hudson-Odoi looks like a rabbit in headlights too often. Decent against smaller teams.

Loftus-Cheek is too injury prone and flatters to deceive. He has a good game in his but extremely inconsistent and bizarrely has stopped using his strength the way he once did.

Ziyech is far too inconsistent.

Lukaku has to go. Poor attitude and poor in our system. A dreadful signing.

Pulisic is good when on form but this is rare and he’s made of glass.

Jorginho - I like him. He does tend to slow us down in transition but I’m still a fan of him. I’d sell if we got a good offer.

If PSG offered for Kante too I’d sell. He’s probably my favourite Chelsea player since Hazard and he’s still quality. He is picking up a lot of niggling injuries lately and with the effort and commitment he puts in, this is likely to continue. I’d hate to see him go but we shouldn’t turn down a large offer if it came in at his age.

Saul can walk back to Madrid.

Alonso is so poor. He does pop up with a wonder goal every now and then but he’s not good enough.

Kepa had a decent season and if we get any sort of offer we should take it.

Sarr - terrible. Cash in asap.

——


Werner is a tough one for me. His finishing leaves a lot to be desired however his pace, pressing and constant running is a nightmare for defenders. He’d be a good squad player but I don’t imagine he’d be keen on that

Havertz is quality on his game and turns up in big games. He’s young and would be far better with better options around him.

Mount is critical to how we play. He’s very well rounded

 

[GDaly95]

A key factor in judging his performance would be his role in the disastrous Lukaku transfer.

Did he want him? Was it over his head?

 

[Orc]

A key factor in judging his performance would be his role in the disastrous Lukaku transfer.

Did he want him? Was it over his head?

I don’t think he wanted him originally. But then the club went to him and told him it was doable and asked if he was good with it and he said yes.

And to be fair Lukaku was coming off of two great seasons in Italy where he played in a similar formation to what Tuchel uses. So I think it was fair to imagine that he could thrive here where he’d have a point to prove to his doubters.

I don’t think Tuchel can be blamed much at all for Lukaku flopping.

 

[SirReginald]

He is good but very over rated imo. This season was a small disaster giving their squad and the supposed WC quality of the manager. Next season we will have a more complete picture of how good he really is but the signs are not as great as the media paints them.

Considering all the background noise, he has been a voice of calm, sense and reason. He cannot account for the sloppy goals we have given the opposition lately. Overall he has done fantastic. Comparatively, would take our small disaster over United’s monumental one.

Injuries to Chilwell and James derailed their season. If they replace Lukaku and strengthen in a few other areas they will compete IMO.

This is sense. Lukaku hasn’t worked out. We could do with a “Werner” who could actually finish rather than a useless lump.

I rate Tuchel, but how can you look at it like that The best points tally they can get is 81, but would need 5 wins out of 5 for that. Is that the level of the current Chelsea squad in your opinion?

We started the season as easily the best side. We finished last season as one of the best. We have had issues where City and Liverpool have had none. I don’t think they would have kept up their form in our place no matter how good. Let’s have some perspective.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Considering all the background noise, he has been a voice of calm, sense and reason. He cannot account for the sloppy goals we have given the opposition lately. Overall he has done fantastic. Comparatively, would take our small disaster over United’s monumental one.

Obviously. Comparing with the United worst footballing disaster for the last 30 years is not what you would have hoped for though. Mega crap lego Pep arsenal are like 6 points behind you when you, the media and that fans thought Chelsea is in the title race Next season will be better, has to be.

 

[Samid]

He's lucky Roman is in no position to pull the trigger.

 

[Kaos]

He's lucky Roman is in no position to pull the trigger.

I was about to say the same. Roman would have 100% given him the boot come the end of the season at the latest.

 

[RopersReturn]

Seems like Chelsea are suffering from ptso after being dumped out of the Champions league. Wouldn’t surprise me if the players can’t focus on anything else atm.

 

[Dancfc]

I was about to say the same. Roman would have 100% given him the boot come the end of the season at the latest.

No he wouldn't.

 

[Idxomer]

He hasn't been able to pull away from the rest of the top 4 contenders which I would consider a bit of a failure.

Can you even rate his achievements over Roberto di Matteo so far?

 

[Champ]

Chelsea are right on the edge here.

A loss against Wolves and they'll be worried about top four!

Tuchels got work to do.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

He wont get sacked, silly to suggest otherwise given the imminent ownership change

Suspect he will get heavily backed in the summer and then judged by Boehly's lot

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

If Lpool beat Spurs he needs 4pts from Wolves H, Leeds A, Leicester H Watford H, if Pool dont win, its maximum 6

 

[Red4Ever]

Rafa benitez with a baseball cap

 

[Idxomer]

If Lpool beat Spurs he needs 4pts from Wolves H, Leeds A, Leicester H Watford H, if Pool dont win, its maximum 6

I don't think he needs to worry, will get at least 9 points from the remaining fixtures.

 

[Kaos]

No he wouldn't.

He's sacked other managers for doing better than he has.

 

[TuzlaUnited]

People were creaming themselves over him but in the end he will finish 20 pts behind second place after spending 100m on striker.

He's sacked other managers for doing better than he has.

People love to rewrite history. He would be sacked at the end of the season.

 

[WeePat]

He's sacked other managers for doing better than he has.

I suppose we'll never know now will we?