Thoughts on Tuchel as a potential United manager?

[roonster09]

Among the available options, Tuchel looks like the best option. He might fall out with management, it's fine. We are looking for a manager/first team coach who will manage and move on, not a long term relationship or marriage for life time. Apart from rare exceptions, clubs change managers frequently and the average time will be around 3 seasons.

I didn't watch his Bayern team but before that his teams looks organized and played with clear idea of what to do. Also his team's possession and underlying numbers were strong too.

 

[MadDogg]

Should probably also be mentioned that even if he wins his final two games, his points total would still have been bettered in every single one of those 9 seasons, by multiple Bayern managers. Many of those managers we’d almost cringe at the idea of signing.

Let’s not make out he’s done anything but fail at Bayern with that recruitment and that squad.

To be fair, they've lost three of their last six as it's become obvious they weren't going to win the league. I remember we did the same under Fergie a couple of times - once the league was gone we took our foot off the pedal. Not that long ago Bayern were on track to have one of their best seasons, but they just came up against a team who was on track to have the best Bundesliga season of all time before they themselves have taken the foot off over the last few weeks (if they win their last two games they'll still finish only one point behind the all time record).

 

[Judas]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind if the next manager only lasts a couple of years? If the football is good, we win a few trophies, that'll be a massive improvement and step in the right direction. More importantly the squad is cleansed and improved, what's the harm? We just need to be in a position where we don't have to start from scratch with the players at the end of the next managers time here.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

I’d still take him. We can only dream of reaching the CL semis!

We can do things other clubs can only dream of. Watch this space!

 

[Winrar]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind if the next manager only lasts a couple of years? If the football is good, we win a few trophies, that'll be a massive improvement and step in the right direction. More importantly the squad is cleansed and improved, what's the harm? We just need to be in a position where we don't have to start from scratch with the players at the end of the next managers time here.

Definitely not alone there in thinking that. And I don't hold Tuchel's lack of longevity at clubs against him.

Most managers only last for couple seasons, even at top clubs like Barca, Real, Bayern. Long term (I'm thinking 5+ years) sustained success under a single manager isn't as common as our fanbase would like to believe due to being spoiled by SAF, who was a spectacular exception to the norm for us. Top clubs don't give their managers 2+ years at a time to succeed, "get the system right," etc.

 

[croadyman]

I think people are only really focusing on the ones who are available and are strongly linked to the club, like Southgate, Potter and more recently Tuchel. It doesn't mean that they are the number 1 choice.

I personally want Don Carlo. But the man is currently too busy winning yet another League and Champion's League.

We should have got Ancelotti to replace Fergie in 2013 but stupidly Fergie picked Moyes

 

[Carolina Red]

We should have got Ancelotti to replace Fergie in 2013 but stupidly Fergie picked Moyes

Carlo was already locked in to replace Jose at Real Madrid.

 

[Bondi77]

We need to steer clear of this boring Cnut....if we are after a German coach then there is going to be a very good one that will become available in the summer and his teams have been very entertaining.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind if the next manager only lasts a couple of years? If the football is good, we win a few trophies, that'll be a massive improvement and step in the right direction. More importantly the squad is cleansed and improved, what's the harm? We just need to be in a position where we don't have to start from scratch with the players at the end of the next managers time here.

Actually, from what I’ve read on these boards most people are more concerned that we continue to switch from style to style every 2/3 years rather than from manager to manager. It’s a rudderless and extremely expensive strategy if it doesn’t go right.

However, if we get the back room staff right and have a defined style, I don’t think anyone would mind us planning with a 2/3 year managerial appointment, after all that was the plan with LvG. Our big problem is that every time we switch managers we also completely switch recruitment strategy and style with it, so the question with Tuchel becomes, is he a manager that plays in the style the club want to work towards , or not?

 

[Uncle Mainoo]

I believe he’s the perfect fit for what we need right now. Someone to steady the ship as our new DoF gets his feet under the table.

He is able to transition between formations which is important if the long term idea is 343 for instance and although boring he can coach possession football whilst not being exposed to batterings like a De Zerbi would be.

Give him a solid core and I think we could be competing for a title within 2 years.

I said “competing”.

 

[croadyman]

Actually, from what I’ve read on these boards most people are more concerned that we continue to switch from style to style every 2/3 years rather than from manager to manager. It’s a rudderless and extremely expensive strategy if it doesn’t go right.

However, if we get the back room staff right and have a defined style, I don’t think anyone would mind us planning with a 2/3 year managerial appointment, after all that was the plan with LvG. Our big problem is it every time we switch managers we also completely switch recruitment strategy and style with it, so the question with Tuchel becomes, is he a manager that plays in the style the club want to work towards , or not?

Yeah one of my biggest concerns is we have switched styles so many times in the last decade. Much as I support Tuchel he isn't my number one target either, however feel he is capable of provide a bridge to that young and exciting appointment in a couple of seasons time when we are more settled again.

 

[Wilt]

We need to steer clear of this boring Cnut....if we are after a German coach then there is going to be a very good one that will become available in the summer and his teams have been very entertaining.

“boring cnut” ….who else do you suggest would be better?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah one of my biggest concerns is we have switched styles so many times in the last decade. Much as I support Tuchel he isn't my number one target either, however feel he is capable of provide a bridge to that young and exciting appointment in a couple of seasons time when we are more settled again.

I personally think he’s too pragmatic, he’ll play exactly how he feels will be best for his results in the short term, if that means switching to 3 at the back and constant feuds with Ashworth and co, that’s exactly what he’ll do. No-on will be telling him to think of the longer term goal of the club.

Recipe for disaster I reckon, feels like exactly the appointment Ed Woodward would make. I’d wager my entire salary on that, if Woodward was in charge now he’d be recruiting Tuchel.

 

[Lyng]

Actually, from what I’ve read on these boards most people are more concerned that we continue to switch from style to style every 2/3 years rather than from manager to manager. It’s a rudderless and extremely expensive strategy if it doesn’t go right.

However, if we get the back room staff right and have a defined style, I don’t think anyone would mind us planning with a 2/3 year managerial appointment, after all that was the plan with LvG. Our big problem is that every time we switch managers we also completely switch recruitment strategy and style with it, so the question with Tuchel becomes, is he a manager that plays in the style the club want to work towards , or not?

Well we are kinda forced to switch given that the style we have now is awful and results in us getting battered by the likes of Crystal Palace.

I fully expect talks about style etc to be a part of talks before the appointment, if not then the new regime is as daft as the old one.
I expect Wilcox to have a talk with Tuchel beforehand and already there they will find out whether his style and what he wants to do fits within our overall project.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well we are kinda forced to switch given that the style we have now is awful and results in us getting battered by the likes of Crystal Palace.

I fully expect talks about style etc to be a part of talks before the appointment, if not then the new regime is as daft as the old one.
I expect Wilcox to have a talk with Tuchel beforehand and already there they will find out whether his style and what he wants to do fits within our overall project.

That’s exactly my point though, we’re now forced to do another huge switch in style.

Tuchel & Wilcox can talk all they like beforehand but Tuchel has fallen out with so many directors previously because at heart he’s a pragmatist, it won’t matter if he and Wilcox/Ashworth etc have a base idea on United’s style and transfer strategy.
If for example Tuchel feels a more defensive strategy with 3 at the back will get him better short term results, that’s exactly what he’ll do and he’ll fall out with all the directors if he has to.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind if the next manager only lasts a couple of years? If the football is good, we win a few trophies, that'll be a massive improvement and step in the right direction. More importantly the squad is cleansed and improved, what's the harm? We just need to be in a position where we don't have to start from scratch with the players at the end of the next managers time here.

No issue with that as long as:
- we have made impressive progress in the direction we want to go
- our style of football is “fixed” and something we can have faith and pride in
- we have recruited well and in a manner that adds new players who are of the level required rather than need replacing 3 years in

 

[Lyng]

That’s exactly my point though, we’re now forced to do another huge switch in style.

Tuchel & Wilcox can talk all they like beforehand but Tuchel has fallen out with so many directors previously because at heart he’s a pragmatist, it won’t matter if he and Wilcox/Ashworth etc have a base idea on United’s style and transfer strategy.
If for example Tuchel feels a more defensive strategy with 3 at the back will get him better short term results, that’s exactly what he’ll do and he’ll fall out with all the directors if he has to.

Well that switch is forced to happen regardless and I don't care given that our current style neither fits the league nor our squad.
I highly doubt we would have seen the same amount of injuries and sharp decline on form from so many players with a less chaotic and more disciplines system that didn't rely on our players having seven lungs.

There have been various reasons for fall out none of which have been down to him being to pragmatic in choice of playstyle.

 

[devilish]

We keep arguing about players having the right attitude to play with United yet that argument is rarely used with the manager. In my opinion that's one of United's biggest mistakes TBH.

- Moyes stank from half a mile that he was a mid tier table type of manager. He never dealt with football legends and that was set to cripple him
- LVG was the typical Dutch manager. They have a very entertaining style of football but they are incredibly stubborn to their way.
- Mou was short term and toxic, Ole was the other extreme ie long term and incredibly appeasing.
- ETH is basically LVG

Tuchel has a difficult character. He had issues with Chelsea, Dortmund and now Bayern, two of which having an established system that can provide him far more stability then we do. Considering that the football structure part of the club is work in progress and that we're downgrading the manager role to that of a head coach then getting Tuchel in is not exactly a wise decision.

In my opinion we should go for someone who doesn't mind the role of head coach, who had thrived (or at least experienced) a difficult environment and in having to work with limited means. The two managers I can think of that can do that are Inzaghi and Mckenna.

 

[stefan92]

In my opinion we should go for someone who doesn't mind the role of head coach, who had thrived (or at least experienced) a difficult environment and in having to work with limited means.

You are describubg Tuchel here. Not every one of your points fits all his jobs, but he is and did just that.

 

[devilish]

You are describubg Tuchel here. Not every one of your points fits all his jobs, but he is and did just that.

The guy has issues at Dortmund, Bayern and Chelsea. He's known for his abrasive and difficult character.

 

[stefan92]

The guy has issues at Dortmund, Bayern and Chelsea. He's known for his abrasive and difficult character.

Yes, but he prefers being just a head coach who is given a solid squad. He clashed with incompetent board people at Chelsea, PSG and Bayern (I don't think in Dortmund it was incompetence, there the reason were a bit different), but as we assume United currently focus on getting a good board together that wouldn't be an issue.

 

[Lyng]

The guy has issues at Dortmund, Bayern and Chelsea. He's known for his abrasive and difficult character.

The Chelsea board he clashed with was the insane current one. He worked fine under the previous one.

 

[devilish]

The Chelsea board he clashed with was the insane current one. He worked fine under the previous one.

I would have closed an eye if that was his only clash but its not.

 

[didz]

The Chelsea board he clashed with was the insane current one. He worked fine under the previous one.

At Chelsea you can't hold the board thing against him at all. The main fallout there was that he managed to alienate just about every attacker in the squad, with none of them wanting to play for him.

The counterpoint to that would be that all of them ended up leaving anyway, with none of them really going onto better things.

 

[Rajiztar]

I agree. I think he's the disciplinarian everyone lauded Ten Hag for trying to be, but a better tactician and more of a proven winner.

If we do get him though, there will be hell of a lot of pressure on Ashworth, Wilcox and Berrada to get things right quickly - which is not a given.

Tuchel was very calm when he guided us(chelsea) during our worst phase that was under uk government embargo. Our club not even able to arrange proper travels for team. He acted as club spokesperson as well. I don't think anyone could handle it better than him.

Things went downhill for tuchel since kante injury when we played against spurs last season. Still we feel the impact of the kante less team. Yes he could overcome that problem but not given time.

If tuchel available and you(man utd) fail to make him as a coach then I will be very happy.

 

[devilish]

Yes, but he prefers being just a head coach who is given a solid squad. He clashed with incompetent board people at Chelsea, PSG and Bayern (I don't think in Dortmund it was incompetence, there the reason were a bit different), but as we assume United currently focus on getting a good board together that wouldn't be an issue.

Every manager in the world has to work with an extent of incompetence that including prime SAF. The guy was reduced to asking Graham for a copy of his contract to justify a salary increase! So how many incompetent people should a manager clash with up until someone realize that maybe he's the difficult one?

United's rebuild will take years. First of all most top people hasn't start working yet. It will take them time to understand what's going on, how to work with one another and then they'll be ample sackings followed by new people in who will also need time to adapt to their surroundings. Secondly that squad is diabolical. Most are not good enough, they are on silly salaries/long term contracts and they won't bulge easily. FFP is set to make things worse. Not to forget that INEOS has no idea of how to run a top successful club. They never won anything and while their heart is in the right place they are will make mistakes.

Can you imagine Tuchel starting insulting players as he did with Dortmund or PSG? I mean the guy had issues with Mbappe. How on earth will he act towards Rashford who puts half the effort and has 1/3 the talent? What we need is a person whose got great man management skills, someone whose capable to the best of a flawed squad and who knows his place. I don't see Tuchel as that sort of manager.

 

[NoPace]

The point is that they are young, confident, ambitious, and, God forbid, even charismatic.

Potter is uninspired purely because of his lack of charisma and the personality needed to be a leader at a top club.

I am not writing a feckin thesis mate. I just want a young, ambitious, energetic coach as part of a new initiative. We have done the CVs. McKenna would be my choice.

I don't really know anything about McKenna's vibes or if he'd struggle to wield authority like Potter did at Chelsea.

De Zerbi doesn't seem to lack for confidence, I feel pretty confident about that one. Might fall out with the board, but seems like he'd happily bench anyone and impose a style at least.

 

[stefan92]

Every manager in the world has to work with an extent of incompetence that including prime SAF. The guy was reduced to asking Graham for a copy of his contract to justify a salary increase! So how many incompetent people should a manager clash with up until someone realize that maybe he's the difficult one?

United's rebuild will take years. First of all most top people hasn't start working yet. It will take them time to understand what's going on, how to work with one another and then they'll be ample sackings followed by new people in who will also need time to adapt to their surroundings. Secondly that squad is diabolical. Most are not good enough, they are on silly salaries/long term contracts and they won't bulge easily. FFP is set to make things worse. Not to forget that INEOS has no idea of how to run a top successful club. They never won anything and while their heart is in the right place they are will make mistakes.

Can you imagine Tuchel starting insulting players as he did with Dortmund or PSG? I mean the guy had issues with Mbappe. How on earth will he act towards Rashford who puts half the effort and has 1/3 the talent? What we need is a person whose got great man management skills, someone whose capable to the best of a flawed squad and who knows his place. I don't see Tuchel as that sort of manager.

You mean the Mbappe who claimed in 2021 after Chelsea's CL win that he has a "very good relationship" with Tuchel? Who said then that he had learned a lot, especially tactical stuff under Tuchel? Who said that Tuchel can very precisely predict how teams will behave? I wouldn't have any issue if that's the outcome of any "clash" with a player. (I picked that article because it uses statements by Mbappe long after they parted ways, so that there was no need for Mbappe to sugar coat things).

https://www.sport1.de/news/internat.../kylian-mbappe-ueber-thomas-tuchel-und-neymar

 

[Brophs]

On the one hand, he’s obviously a good manager. On the other, he seems like the sort of fella who’d refuse to give back the work mobile and laptop after being sacked.

 

[Lyng]

I would have closed an eye if that was his only clash but its not.

PSG was mostly due to Leonardo being an absolute maniac.
Dortmund was a slow downward spiral after the board more or less sold most of the spine of the team in one summer.
Nevertheless Tuchel actually managed to rebuild Dortmund after a disastrous last season from Tuchel and even won the cup a week before getting sacked. But once he got a disagreement with some like Watzke it was always going to end in a sacking.

 

[devilish]

You mean the Mbappe who claimed in 2021 after Chelsea's CL win that he has a "very good relationship" with Tuchel? Who said then that he had learned a lot, especially tactical stuff under Tuchel? Who said that Tuchel can very precisely predict how teams will behave? I wouldn't have any issue if that's the outcome of any "clash" with a player. (I picked that article because it uses statements by Mbappe long after they parted ways, so that there was no need for Mbappe to sugar coat things).

https://www.sport1.de/news/internat.../kylian-mbappe-ueber-thomas-tuchel-und-neymar

They had issues.Check it out. Maybe they mend bridges afterwards. United players aren't that forgiving unfortunately. We've got players who are absolute GOATs in throwing the manager under the bridge and they always have the media's support to do so

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

It’s weird, and he has nothing on his CV that resembles anything extraordinary, like Alonso this season for example.
He’s won leagues where absolutely anyone does, yet he’s even struggled to do that in both Bayern years which is a huge red flag. Had Dortmund not capitulated on the final day, he’d be leaving Bayern without a league title, he’s a lucky man.

But @Fallon d'Floor could prove me wrong just by showing me any club where his team got better the longer he stayed, rather than the opposite….

Do you really want to die on this hill? At least 2 other posters called you out. I've already disproved your assesment of Tuchel's career.

Winning a CL with Chelsea by tactically outclassing Pep in a final is pretty extraordinary. He doesn't lose many finals. No pre-season and zero transfers.

Out of all the PSG managers of the past 12-13 years, he's the only one who reached a CL final. Ancelotti, Emery, Poch and Enrique couldn't.

Kenny Dalglish wouldn't have won The PL title with Blackburn if we didn't draw with West Ham on the final day in 1995. But we did. Bayern won the title and that's that. He beat Dortmund 4-2 in his 1st game in charge. That was a pressure game and he delivered. They were worried that Nagelsmann wasn't going to get over the line. Tuchel did.

He deserves criticism for not doing better in the league this season, but they would have had to match their best ever points tally to stop this Leverkusen team. This had been coming for awhile. Bayern have made a lot of errors since Flick left for the Germany job. There have been a lot of changes at board level.

Nobody said that Tuchel is one of the greatest managers of all time. But he's certainly one of the top 10 currently in the game and I'd take him over ten Hag in a heartbeat.

We hired Mourinho on the back off a car crash 15/16 season at Chelsea and it worked out well for us. We got 2 good seasons out of him. I'd be happy with something similar while INEOS continue to get their shit together behind the scenes.

Who do you want as manager?

 

[devilish]

PSG was mostly due to Leonardo being an absolute maniac.
Dortmund was a slow downward spiral after the board more or less sold most of the spine of the team in one summer.
Nevertheless Tuchel actually managed to rebuild Dortmund after a disastrous last season from Tuchel and even won the cup a week before getting sacked. But once he got a disagreement with some like Watzke it was always going to end in a sacking.

I never liked Leonardo. I think he's the most overrated and most lucky Sporting director in football even more then Murtough is.

I think that we can all agree that United are a mess. Our football structure was non existent and is slowly being rebuilt (something that will require time to gel) while we have the most unsufferable squad in modern football with most players tied up on silly salaries and long contracts. I am resigned to a 'baby steps' attitude, were it would take us time to clear the decks, were mistakes will be done along the way and we'll probably see 1-2 decent managers being shown the door before everything works correctly.

Under such circumstances you'll want a manager whose got experience with flawed sides and difficult administrations. Someone whose man management is top notch, who can make due with what he has, whose not difficult to work with and whose able to rally the troops when things go wrong. Inzaghi had done that with Lazio and Inter. Mckenna had never been a manager at top level but what he did with Ipswich is amazing and having served under both Mou and Ole he knows exactly what's going on at United. In my opinion both would fit into the head coach role in such scenario better then Tuchel would.

I am not suggesting that Tuchel is a shit manager and quite frankly I wouldn't mind him as our next manager. Southgate is probably the only linked manager that I would categorically hate to see him at United. However I do think that there are better options to Tuchel

 

[JPRouve]

They had issues.Check it out. Maybe they mend bridges afterwards. United players aren't that forgiving unfortunately. We've got players who are absolute GOATs in throwing the manager under the bridge and they always have the media's support to do so

Mbappé and other players had an issue with his reaction to the Demba Ba incident, by most accounts they were upset with him after that but overall had a good relationship with him. There is a parallel with the Bus incident at Dortmund. Overall as far as I understand none of his former player actually dislike him even the ones who were said to be upset at some point only have good things to say about him as a coach.

 

[Lyng]

I never liked Leonardo. I think he's the most overrated and most lucky Sporting director in football even more then Murtough is.

I think that we can all agree that United are a mess. Our football structure was non existent and is slowly being rebuilt (something that will require time to gel) while we have the most unsufferable squad in modern football with most players tied up on silly salaries and long contracts. I am resigned to a 'baby steps' attitude, were it would take us time to clear the decks, were mistakes will be done along the way and we'll probably see 1-2 decent managers being shown the door before everything works correctly.

Under such circumstances you'll want a manager whose got experience with flawed sides and difficult administrations. Someone whose man management is top notch, who can make due with what he has, whose not difficult to work with and whose able to rally the troops when things go wrong. Inzaghi had done that with Lazio and Inter. Mckenna had never been a manager at top level but what he did with Ipswich is amazing and having served under both Mou and Ole he knows exactly what's going on at United. In my opinion both would fit into the head coach role in such scenario better then Tuchel would.

I am not suggesting that Tuchel is a shit manager and quite frankly I wouldn't mind him as our next manager. Southgate is probably the only linked manager that I would categorically hate to see him at United. However I do think that there are better options to Tuchel

I would be fine with McKenna and would probably prefer him to most realistic options out there. I am just not against Tuchel either as I think he is a great choice for a transitional manager to steady the ship and instill a winning mentality in our players over the next few seasons.

Much like you the only name that I am vehemently against is Southgate and that would instantly be a sign to me that United will end like any other Ineos owned club.

 

[Melville Red]

Instead of opting for a panic replacement let’s just take a deep breath and wait and see what happens once Ineos have Ashworth and the rest of their boardroom in place.
Yes it might result in another car crash of a season but then again it might not. Let’s see if we do manage to get rid of a few unwanted players this summer, if that will that focus the minds of those remain?
I am not convinced about the ex Chelsea manager especially after his disastrous substitutions against Madrid, he did an Erik with bells and whistles.
No I’d rather stick with ETH see if there is any improvements and if not come Christmas get rid but he might, just might turn things around and we can’t sack him with all theses injuries we have had especially if by some miracle of miracles we beat City in the final of the cup.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Who do you want as manager?

I’ve asked you multiple times now to shut me up by showing me any club since Mainz where his team has improved season on season.

 

[Uncle Mainoo]

Instead of opting for a panic replacement let’s just take a deep breath and wait and see what happens once Ineos have Ashworth and the rest of their boardroom in place.
Yes it might result in another car crash of a season but then again it might not. Let’s see if we do manage to get rid of a few unwanted players this summer, if that will that focus the minds of those remain?
I am not convinced about the ex Chelsea manager especially after his disastrous substitutions against Madrid, he did an Erik with bells and whistles.
No I’d rather stick with ETH see if there is any improvements and if not come Christmas get rid but he might, just might turn things around and we can’t sack him with all theses injuries we have had especially if by some miracle of miracles we beat City in the final of the cup.

Let’s be honest here. The two managers aren’t even remotely the same. We brought ETH in from arguably the 7th best league in Europe where his achievements are very easily matched by those who managed Ajax before him. He had a very good UCL campaign but he also had one of the best Ajax teams in years.

Compare that to Tuchel they’re not in the same league. Yes it’s a risk because of his style of play. Other than that it makes the most sense.

 

[stefan92]

I’ve asked you multiple times now to shut me up by showing me any club since Mainz where his team has improved season on season.

Bayern is better this season than last season.

 

[Lyng]

I’ve asked you multiple times now to shut me up by showing me any club since Mainz where his team has improved season on season.

Dortmund. When he got sacked they had improved since the disasterous state of Klopps last season and just winning the cup.