I don't like your negativity!
To the posters saying Mourinho is done
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
Its time to face the facts Zlatan and Pogba need to be dropped and Carrick needs to be a starter.. Rashford and Martial need to be central.. Blind and Fellaini can bugger off..
Can't stand watching us not giving a shit anymore..
Can't stand watching us not giving a shit anymore..
You always can take something from games like this and Jose is far from an idiot. Those players weren't good last year or the year before that. These are good squad players but are no way good enough to be in an Utd starting 11. I said it before the game and my view remains the same. Jose can't buy the players he needs in a window but trust me, targets will have already been identified. The thing is we talking taking realistically the need for another 4 players over 2 windows. We need RB, CB, DM, CF....
do you think that Mourinho has the balls to leave Ibra in the bench?
Mourinho hasn't done well but to say he's 'done' is ridiculous.
His previous 3 jobs saw him take Inter to the first Italian treble, beating one of the best club teams ever in the process, break a La Liga record for points won at Real Madrid and win the Premier League while being a mile ahead of the competition.
His failures were dressing room problems at Real Madrid (which happens to everyone who manages there), failing to make Real Madrid consistently better than possibly the best team of all time within 3 years of arriving (hardly an embarrassing failure imo) and last season's bizarre disaster.
The only warning sign I see there is his behaviour last season. Thankfully, he hasn't been so undisciplined so far this season. He might have done well but to call his career over after a bad 18 months is unbelievably premature and pessimistic.
His previous 3 jobs saw him take Inter to the first Italian treble, beating one of the best club teams ever in the process, break a La Liga record for points won at Real Madrid and win the Premier League while being a mile ahead of the competition.
His failures were dressing room problems at Real Madrid (which happens to everyone who manages there), failing to make Real Madrid consistently better than possibly the best team of all time within 3 years of arriving (hardly an embarrassing failure imo) and last season's bizarre disaster.
The only warning sign I see there is his behaviour last season. Thankfully, he hasn't been so undisciplined so far this season. He might have done well but to call his career over after a bad 18 months is unbelievably premature and pessimistic.
a) there isn't a best 11
b) realistically a lot of the players are extremely average
Dropping Rooney was a far braver call.
Maybe he'll rediscover his mojo to some extent, at some point, but I don't think it'll happen with us.
Dropping Rooney isn't braver than dropping Ibrahimovic, imo.
His balls at stake here.. Zlatan isn't doing anything for us and that is hurting the club and the manager.. So now we need fluidity and pace upfront.
Heh - yeah. There's no denying that.
It really is far too early to tell, though. Just because Moyes and LVG ultimately didn't deserve the patience doesn't mean patience in general is a bad thing. We knew that much was wrong with the squad last season. Mourinho fixing it straight away was always a best case scenario, not the most likely one.
The man himself is the most important part of the equation, though. If he's lost it, we're - sort of - fecked. That said, I think it will become evident soon enough if this is the case. I can't see an LVG type of scenario repeating itself, with baby steps, false dawns, and people on the whole remaining desperately optimistic for ages. Mourinho is a different character, for one thing. He'll have a meltdown of some kind or another if things don't improve, or so I suspect.
Hopefully, the above won't happen. He needs to tweak what he has at his disposal as a first step - settle on a functional XI and begin grinding out results. Then bring in some reinforcements. We're lacking in terms of quality for a supposed top team - he'll be aware of that. Right now, however, he needs to whip the feckers into shape - have them playing as a team, consistently. It was exactly the same under LVG: Not having world beaters in every position is no excuse for not playing like a team, looking disjointed, mentally weak, etc.
Its funny isnt it? After the first game, there were calls for Wenger to step aside, early pressure
whilst Jose / Pep and conte were running away with the league (would be top 3)
Then Liverpool lost to Burnley and it was "Klopp the flop" - same ol, same ol Liverpool who cant get it done against the smaller teams.
Then Chelsea lost to Liverpool and Arsenal and Conte was under pressure whilst United lost to City / Watford and Jose was under pressure and City / Pep have already won the league.
Meanwhile Arsenal went on a run and Liverpool went on a run and their two managers are genius'.
Now City havent won a game since that draw to Celtic and Pep is feeling the pressure of the league, Jose loses to Chelsea and is back to Jose of last year, meanwhile Its Liverpools year as Klopp as it sorted, and Conte has it working for Chelsea.
All whilst United in 7th and City at 1st are separated by 6 points.
I assume a lot more of this will happen through the season eh?
Basically, United are 6 points behind having played 3 tough matches already (2 being away). This can all change within a 10 day spell of football.
whilst Jose / Pep and conte were running away with the league (would be top 3)
Then Liverpool lost to Burnley and it was "Klopp the flop" - same ol, same ol Liverpool who cant get it done against the smaller teams.
Then Chelsea lost to Liverpool and Arsenal and Conte was under pressure whilst United lost to City / Watford and Jose was under pressure and City / Pep have already won the league.
Meanwhile Arsenal went on a run and Liverpool went on a run and their two managers are genius'.
Now City havent won a game since that draw to Celtic and Pep is feeling the pressure of the league, Jose loses to Chelsea and is back to Jose of last year, meanwhile Its Liverpools year as Klopp as it sorted, and Conte has it working for Chelsea.
All whilst United in 7th and City at 1st are separated by 6 points.
I assume a lot more of this will happen through the season eh?
Basically, United are 6 points behind having played 3 tough matches already (2 being away). This can all change within a 10 day spell of football.
I think he won´t sack Mourinho, because he´d come under immediate pressure himself after spending a billion dollars on the squad and three managers post SAF, while getting absolutely nowhere.
Today revenge was probably a factor, too. These players wanted to stick it to Mourinho. Mission accomplished.
History tells us that Mourinho will get it right by next season.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-the-master-in-his-second-season-9659527.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-the-master-in-his-second-season-9659527.html
Some good players had a bad game is all. Let's not over react.
This is how I feel. We should not overreact but we should hold the manager accountable. Mourinho is not a young inexperienced manager, and we have seen he can feck up too.
So we should all get behind the manager but with the same requirements as the previous two after Alex. Fail to get top four and you are gone.
So we should all get behind the manager but with the same requirements as the previous two after Alex. Fail to get top four and you are gone.
I don't love Jose, nor think we should have gone with him, but judging him at this stage is ridiculous.
1. We lost at Stamford Bridge, where we always lose, after playing Liverpool and a European match since Chelsea last played. Hardly surprising.
2. Two extremely experienced, apparently professional top-level players not only let in a goal after 30 seconds, they let it shake them so much that it basically ended the match.
3. He's barely had 3 months with United. That is no time at all for a manager to fix things. Put it into context:
- Pep hasn't won in what, 6 matches now?
- Conte has Chelsea 5 points off us, despite not having midweek football, and a first XI that is basically the same as last year, but with the best midfielder in the league slotted in.
- Pochettino has the same team of future stars, all with another year under their belt playing in the same system, and again, just ahead
- Klopp was mediocre at best in his first 3 months in the league
- On Saturday morning Koeman was the greatest thing sliced bread. Then he lost to Burnley.
The team at the top? Have had their manager a while now.
Managing is hard, changing a team's ethos and culture takes time. Look at the personality of not just Fergie's teams, but Veira's Arsenal, Drogba's Chelsea - they were tough, professional and terrible losers. Something that, unfortunately, United's current squad is not. The problems are large, systemic and will take any manager at least a year to fix. Whether or not Jose is the man to do it doesn't really matter at this stage, it's far too early to judge.
1. We lost at Stamford Bridge, where we always lose, after playing Liverpool and a European match since Chelsea last played. Hardly surprising.
2. Two extremely experienced, apparently professional top-level players not only let in a goal after 30 seconds, they let it shake them so much that it basically ended the match.
3. He's barely had 3 months with United. That is no time at all for a manager to fix things. Put it into context:
- Pep hasn't won in what, 6 matches now?
- Conte has Chelsea 5 points off us, despite not having midweek football, and a first XI that is basically the same as last year, but with the best midfielder in the league slotted in.
- Pochettino has the same team of future stars, all with another year under their belt playing in the same system, and again, just ahead
- Klopp was mediocre at best in his first 3 months in the league
- On Saturday morning Koeman was the greatest thing sliced bread. Then he lost to Burnley.
The team at the top? Have had their manager a while now.
Managing is hard, changing a team's ethos and culture takes time. Look at the personality of not just Fergie's teams, but Veira's Arsenal, Drogba's Chelsea - they were tough, professional and terrible losers. Something that, unfortunately, United's current squad is not. The problems are large, systemic and will take any manager at least a year to fix. Whether or not Jose is the man to do it doesn't really matter at this stage, it's far too early to judge.
Depression.
Clinical depression.
It's a depressing subject, and one that over my 65 years I have, from time to time, been intimately familiar with.
I'm not a doctor, but I have learned to see the signs of depression in others, and in fact have helped some friends into therapy and medication. There's no shame in it, and medical science can do amazing things to get someone back on their feet.
Yes, I see those signs in Mourinho, especially with the extreme drop in his demeanor over the last season til now.
If he is indeed suffering from it, I hope he gets it sorted out, FOR HIS OWN GOOD, it's terrible to live in that dark hole.
This is NOT in any way an attack. It's a post of care and hope.
Clinical depression.
It's a depressing subject, and one that over my 65 years I have, from time to time, been intimately familiar with.
I'm not a doctor, but I have learned to see the signs of depression in others, and in fact have helped some friends into therapy and medication. There's no shame in it, and medical science can do amazing things to get someone back on their feet.
Yes, I see those signs in Mourinho, especially with the extreme drop in his demeanor over the last season til now.
If he is indeed suffering from it, I hope he gets it sorted out, FOR HIS OWN GOOD, it's terrible to live in that dark hole.
This is NOT in any way an attack. It's a post of care and hope.
He is working out who is worth keeping. It takes time.
He has already dropped Rooney.
Give the guy time. Who else is there anyway?
He has already dropped Rooney.
Give the guy time. Who else is there anyway?
Not going to read through the entire team. But what happened to people being patient. How many managers do you need to go through. Give people time.
Yes conte might be doing better in a shorter time doesn't mean mourinho should be doing just as good. We have been a club in transition for 3 years and if we keep changing managers that will just continue.
Stop poisoning the atmosphere surrounding the club for the need of instant gratification. All good things take time and perseverance.
Give the managers and players time. Stop trying to prove that you are a better CEO/manager of Utd just because you would have picked a different manager or player. The simple truth is, you are sitting on your chair. You are not in that position. fecking trust people.
I'm not pro mourinho or Woodward. Just don't want us fans to turn in to fecking children.
Yes conte might be doing better in a shorter time doesn't mean mourinho should be doing just as good. We have been a club in transition for 3 years and if we keep changing managers that will just continue.
Stop poisoning the atmosphere surrounding the club for the need of instant gratification. All good things take time and perseverance.
Give the managers and players time. Stop trying to prove that you are a better CEO/manager of Utd just because you would have picked a different manager or player. The simple truth is, you are sitting on your chair. You are not in that position. fecking trust people.
I'm not pro mourinho or Woodward. Just don't want us fans to turn in to fecking children.
I'll be worried if second season Mourinho doesn't succeed. That's when you expect a Mourinho team
Good comment. We did this last season - didn't work. Let's calm down and see what happens, even if we don't get top four. As long as we're not relegated, we can't keep changing managers - we need some consistency.
Not impressed so far but he needs time of course. Starting to think that we should have given LVG another year though. He was arguably building something.
Problem was he wanted to retire though. No point in him building something and then fecking off. Especially since what he was trying to build was unique to his style and most other managers taking over would have had to tear it all down.
There was absolutely no basis to give LvG another year he wasnt building anything other than mediocrity.
I can already sense those wishing Mou to fail they same way they did with Moyes. That minor tendency of wanting to be proved right, its pathetic.
We gave him time. Our football and league position both regressed under him.
Jose struggling doesn't mean that keeping VG would have been a better bet. The OP is being overly dramatic and most likely generalizing the views of a couple of posters to come across as a self-righteous sage. People have doubts, but I am sure barring a couple no one is asking for Jose's sacking.
Don't think criticizing or questioning the manager should be disbarred to please a couple of lifers whose buzz is being spoiled because of "all the negativity". The mood on the forum will reflect the current state of the team. If you get trashed 4-0 at the bridge, questions will be asked. Isn't that the purpose of a forum?
Agreed.
The joke thing is a few weeks ago Chelsea got banged at Arsenal and it was all laughs. Now all of a sudden he's the second coming of Christ.
The knee jerking is amazing.
What miraculous presence to people propose to bring in his place? People are morons..
End of the day, all tactics etc aside. We played Mon Thurs Sun , they play Sat/Sun - whatever way you spin it, that HAS to have an affect on things. Yes this shouldn't mean you cannot stop a goal inside 30seconds, but the overall desire/drive/lungs/energy must be depleted within the squad and after that goal so early, the little reserve we had left was gone - then we saw the whitewash.
People all over the place, bad injuries , bad attitudes and a rampant home crowd with a team in good form.
This is not an excuse for the dire performance, but it has to be considered a factor? We are in a tough period but we will get out of it, I still fully back Jose.
4-0 is a battering and we must re-build, but can you at least keep your doombox on volume 1 for now
End of the day, all tactics etc aside. We played Mon Thurs Sun , they play Sat/Sun - whatever way you spin it, that HAS to have an affect on things. Yes this shouldn't mean you cannot stop a goal inside 30seconds, but the overall desire/drive/lungs/energy must be depleted within the squad and after that goal so early, the little reserve we had left was gone - then we saw the whitewash.
People all over the place, bad injuries , bad attitudes and a rampant home crowd with a team in good form.
This is not an excuse for the dire performance, but it has to be considered a factor? We are in a tough period but we will get out of it, I still fully back Jose.
4-0 is a battering and we must re-build, but can you at least keep your doombox on volume 1 for now
My main frustration... result aside is just the way we set out for these matches. Fellaini is not a very good footballer... yet we have Mata sat on the bench who is probably the most technically gifted player we have in the whole squad. It just feels like we are setting up our team with stopping the opposition at the highest priority, whereas thinking about how we can cause an attacking threat to them is down on the list.
Smalling suffered a meltdown
Its all Mou's fault
Its all Mou's fault
It's October, in his first season, making any kind of judgement would be utterly ridiculous.
He won a trophy, blooded youngsters and finshed 4th & 5th (goal difference) so I think it is arguable that he was building something but that is only speculation.
Our league position improved under him and he was one point from maintaining that. He also won the F.A. Cup with some academy players in the side which I very much enjoyed.
I am not up for sacking Mou at all, in fact my reconsidering of LVG's position is because I now question the value of jumping the gun. I agree with @kps88 that the problem was that LVG wanted to retire.
The league is sup[er competitive at the top this season so even if Mourinho misses out on top 4 I would still be reluctant to see him sacked so long as we were in the hunt.
Who else are we going to get?
There is a village of irreductable Mourinho-critiques and I'm one of them.
Given the fact that some of us were against his appointment, and given the only reason for his appointment being a Charlie Sheen quote "winning" : you can't really expect us to sit back and not say we told you so.
On my behalf trying my best to stay supportive and objective.
But you can't deny that we have gone from playing favorites to one 30+ year old has-been to another.
We have in our midst 2 young, athletic, technical forwards in Anthony Martial and Marcus Rashford who are totally wasted, in my opinion. The proved last season that they deserve to start this season.
Squad wise the only positive is A. Herrera being given a chance. And in fairness baring Schweiny, everyone has been given game time.
I think Mourinho's only way out is to go back to the only thing he is good at: setting up our team to sit back and hustle; hoping for a mistake to pounce on to score.
He is a better manager for a team going with an underdog status, or one that won't be favorites during a game. I have serious questions about him implementing a cohesive attacking strategy that involves us dominating possession : The trip at the Bridge proved all you had to do was let us have the ball to see how clueless we were in possession.
Given the fact that some of us were against his appointment, and given the only reason for his appointment being a Charlie Sheen quote "winning" : you can't really expect us to sit back and not say we told you so.
On my behalf trying my best to stay supportive and objective.
But you can't deny that we have gone from playing favorites to one 30+ year old has-been to another.
We have in our midst 2 young, athletic, technical forwards in Anthony Martial and Marcus Rashford who are totally wasted, in my opinion. The proved last season that they deserve to start this season.
Squad wise the only positive is A. Herrera being given a chance. And in fairness baring Schweiny, everyone has been given game time.
I think Mourinho's only way out is to go back to the only thing he is good at: setting up our team to sit back and hustle; hoping for a mistake to pounce on to score.
He is a better manager for a team going with an underdog status, or one that won't be favorites during a game. I have serious questions about him implementing a cohesive attacking strategy that involves us dominating possession : The trip at the Bridge proved all you had to do was let us have the ball to see how clueless we were in possession.
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For me, Mourinho has it all to prove after his disastrous season last year and his start at United.
Of course he has had a great career and could turn it around but the fear is that football changes very quickly and not all managers can adapt, especially older ones, look at LVG (also had a great career).
I thought we should have gone for Klopp when he was available (before he went to Liverpool) but we are where we are.
Of course he has had a great career and could turn it around but the fear is that football changes very quickly and not all managers can adapt, especially older ones, look at LVG (also had a great career).
I thought we should have gone for Klopp when he was available (before he went to Liverpool) but we are where we are.
The stats are brutal for his recent record. Even though I think he needs time they do worry me.
He better deliver champions league football, which is by no means a given this year. Otherwise Woody has no time for the suckers.
Don't agree that he's done. He has something that a lot of the players don't have any more. A desire to WIN! He'll get it right!
People are silly to write off Mourinho. We're still early into the season and he has time to put it right. We're only six points off the top and five from 4th place so the season is far from over. I still think he's trying to find his feet here at United, he's taken on one hell of a job. I have faith in Jose he's without a doubt one of the best managers in the world.
That is the worry thing as it demonstrates just how competitive the top of the league is.