Turning on Rangnick

mctrials23

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So, Ole's second place is because Chelsea and Liverpool were underperforming but Mourinho's second place was something else? Are you serious
I never said that Mourinho was doing a great job at United. My point is that he got 7 more points than Ole in a harder season (league wise).

And the points total is more indicative of the quality of the rest of the league than anything else. We saw how good that Mourinho team really was.
Of course it is but you can't have it both ways. You can't claim that Oles points totals show that he wasn't a crap manager and then turn around and discount a comparison on points...

I watch quite a lot of PL football and the occasional CL game.
Then how have you watched us for the last 3 years and not seen the massive gulf in quality between the football we played and the football the best teams play. What other team that competes for big trophies is as poor as us in general moment to moment play?

Can you tell me which team in the PL has managed to consistently build towards bridging the gap between them and City/Liverpool? It's double as difficult when you have one hand tied behind your back (the club) and the fans constantly demand bs hype words like "patterns of play". Honestly, that's what clickbait and sound-bite pundits like Scholes and Keane thrive on. You should aim higher.
Whats other teams bridging the gap to City/Liverpool got to do with anything. Chelsea were looking like doing it until they lost all momentum when both their prolific wing backs got injured earlier in the season. If you have watched much of Chelsea this year you will have seen that they very much are building towards something that could challenge these two. Mainly because they have a good manager who is coaching the team to play good football. I have little doubt that if Tuchel is backed in the summer he will mount some sort of title challenge next season.

So, now you are diving into the crystal ball hypotheticals...Ok. What if Pogba was available all season? What if Martial didn't miss his dozens of chances? What if the board bought Fernandes the previous transfer window, when he was originally identified?
If Pogba was available all season he would have put in another 2 or 3 8/10 performances and his usual 3/10 performances the other 90% of the time. Martial hasn't pulled up trees for a while. I'm not even really sure what you are getting at here...

Making changes to turn games around is probably #1 sign of good game management.
Fixing the basic errors you have made time and time again in your setup for games to get something from a match that you should be easily winning doesn't qualify as good game management. Good game management is making the right decision at the right time to change a game in your favour when needs be. Its not being in that position game after game and rectifying your mistakes time and time again. Thats poor preparation and planning.

You should think through your statements before posting them. Let's have a look at the star players in the top teams and their contribution:
Man Utd (20/21) - 73 goals
Fernandes - 18 goals
Rashford - 11 goals
Cavani - 10 goals
Total of 39 goals or 53.4% of their team total

Man Utd (21/22) - 57 goals
Ronaldo - 18 goals
Fernandes - 10 goals
our third highest league goalscorer is....Greenwood with 5
Total of 33 goals or 57.8%

Liverpool (21/22) - 87 goals
Salah - 22 goals
Jota - 15 goals
Mane - 14 goals
Total of 51 goals or 58.6% of their team total

City (21/22) - 89 goals
Sterling - 12 goals
De Bruyne - 11 goals
Mahrez - 11 goals
Foden - 9 goals
Jesus - 8 goals
Total of 51 goals or 57.3% of their team total

So...our star players contributed to our total goals last season...LESS than this season or compared to City and Liverpool. But I guess stats are irrelevant as they don't agree with your agenda?

Chelsea make a real case of it with Mount being their league top scorer with 10 goals.
This says quite a lot about your understanding of the game. Who do you think is going to score all their goals? The goalkeeper and defenders...

Of course your star attacking players score most of your goals. It would be really weird if they didn't. In fact, point me to a team where most of their goals don't come from their forwards, I reckon its pretty hard.

The criticism of United has never been that our star players are scoring all our goals, its always been that we play like utter dross and then a couple of our star players will pull something nice out of the bag to save us. Liverpool score a lot of team goals with build up throughout the team. United will have 2 players combine to score a goal. Thats the difference. Team vs the individual. Liverpool will come away with a 3-0 win and all their players rated 8/10. We will come away with a 3-0 win and most of our players rated in the 6's and those are quite often generous based on the fact half our fans think that the team played well simply if we win a game.

Such statements are ridiculous for a team that made steady progress over the course of 2+ seasons.
We didn't make steady progress over 2 years. We made stumbling progress at best and thats being generous.

Ole bought:
Summer 1: Maguire, AWB, James (sold)
January: Ighalo (emergency loan), Bruno

Summer 2: Donny, Amad, Pellistri, Cavani, Telles

Summer 3: Sancho, Varane, Heaton, Ronaldo

Ok, who are the pampered, overpaid and overindulged players in this group?
I mean most of the team are pampered and overpaid. What is your point here? He is the manager and left an unfit and horrendously entitled bunch of players who don't even have a passing level of professionalism considering their wages. Not just players he signed. I've never claimed the players he signed are particularly problematic over the rest of them.

Maguire? The same one who caused Mourinho to implode and get himself sacked? The same one wanted by Pep and City? Ok, we paid a lot of money for him. Was that Ole's decision?
I assume Ole wanted him because you wouldn't pay that money for a player the manager wasn't bothered about and who isn't exactly a marketing home run.

AWB? How is he pampered, overpaid and overindulged? When did you hear anything negative about him?
He trots around the pitch, gets caught out repeatedly because he can't be bothered to sprint if he isn't engaged in a direct one on one. Hes on wages that suggest hes actually a decent footballer. The pampered part is because at any other top club he would have been sold or benched if he put in the work rate he does at United.

Donny? Half the Caf wanted him. He was supposed to be the ultimate combination player that will work wonders, why would Real want him otherwise? How has he been pampered, overpaid and overindulged?
I mean, hes barely been used but again, the United fan base are idiots and don't seem to understand that putting a player than thrives in a dynamic team that passes and moves wouldn't do so well in a team where players don't have a fecking clue what they are going to do before they get the ball and have to look up and take 2-3s to figure out where all their teammates are.

Same with Sancho, great player in the right team but Dortmund play a very different style of football to us and he doesn't suit our "Ole style" at all.

Not really sure why you are bringing this up or do you want me to go through all of the players Ole has signed...

Our squad (in general) is lazy, underworked and over-indulged.

Telles? Quite a lot of reports out there that he wasn't Ole's choice but was forced to accept since the club neither sold the deadwood he wanted out, nor bought who he wanted. Regardless, I think Telles is not good enough for us but when was he pampered, overpaid and overindulged?
Cavani? He was the most determined player we had last season. This season he is a shadow of himself. I don't know how Ole got him to deliver so much better last year, but he obviously did.
Telles is just limited but who knows why we have him. Another player I don't have any real issue with other than him not really being good enough. Cavani has always been a worker. Ole didn't work some sort of magic on him. Hes just demotivated this season and has had a number of injuries.

You should speak to more Liverpool fans. I have quite a lot of them in my circle and they are STILL negative towards Klopp. In his first 2 seasons they wanted him out every week.
I know a lot of Liverpool fans and most of them worship the ground he walks on and although they admit that Klopp has the structure in place to allow him to do his best work, they also dread the day he leaves.

Yes, he definitely did. Just see the star players he sold and then buying older players for significant amounts.
What older players did he sign for significant amounts. RvP is the only one that comes to mind and RvP was bloody amazing. Probably the most quality I have seen from a striker in the PL in a single season. Scored some sublime goals. Fergie was brilliant at using what he had, getting the most from it and doing just enough. He was given money to get certain players but he wasn't backed to anything like the degree that our managers since him have.

Unlike other managers, who only spent £12 total. First, Ole didn't negotiate player prices. Second, "players he wanted" is something that every manager at United since SAF has disputed.
Of course its not that simple, I never said it was. Again, I'm not sure what your point is. He got players he wanted, missed out on ones he would rather have and I'm sure everything in between. Every manager has that. Klopp and Guardiola included.

No, Klopp cherry picked the players he wanted and waited patiently to get them, while his club supported this strategy.
Klopp doesn't. He gets what he can and he works with it. Hes just a very very good manager and gets the best out of players because (as I have been trying to gently suggest) the team is more important than the individual in all the best teams. Ole was rubbish at creating a good team. He assembled what was at times a good set of players but he built and coached a shit team.
 

georgipep

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I never said that Mourinho was doing a great job at United. My point is that he got 7 more points than Ole in a harder season (league wise).
Why was it a harder season?
Of course it is but you can't have it both ways. You can't claim that Oles points totals show that he wasn't a crap manager and then turn around and discount a comparison on points...
When have I said anything about points totals under Ole?

Then how have you watched us for the last 3 years and not seen the massive gulf in quality between the football we played and the football the best teams play. What other team that competes for big trophies is as poor as us in general moment to moment play?
We obviously have very different opinions, tastes and perceptions of what Manchester United played in the last 2+ seasons.
Whats other teams bridging the gap to City/Liverpool got to do with anything. Chelsea were looking like doing it until they lost all momentum when both their prolific wing backs got injured earlier in the season. If you have watched much of Chelsea this year you will have seen that they very much are building towards something that could challenge these two. Mainly because they have a good manager who is coaching the team to play good football. I have little doubt that if Tuchel is backed in the summer he will mount some sort of title challenge next season.
If Pogba was available all season he would have put in another 2 or 3 8/10 performances and his usual 3/10 performances the other 90% of the time. Martial hasn't pulled up trees for a while. I'm not even really sure what you are getting at here...
So, you are spinning hypotheticals "If Ole did things differently, we would've won" and do not see the relevancy? Sure...

Fixing the basic errors you have made time and time again in your setup for games to get something from a match that you should be easily winning doesn't qualify as good game management. Good game management is making the right decision at the right time to change a game in your favour when needs be. Its not being in that position game after game and rectifying your mistakes time and time again. Thats poor preparation and planning.
You are tying yourselve in knots of stupidity here. So, making the decision to change a game in your favour when needs be is good management. And that is EXACTLY what Ole did time and time again.
And, of course, all other managers just win their games 3:0, every game, so I see where you are coming from....not.
This says quite a lot about your understanding of the game. Who do you think is going to score all their goals? The goalkeeper and defenders...

Of course your star attacking players score most of your goals. It would be really weird if they didn't. In fact, point me to a team where most of their goals don't come from their forwards, I reckon its pretty hard.
So, now it's not that star players are winning the games. It's something else....cool.
The criticism of United has never been that our star players are scoring all our goals, its always been that we play like utter dross and then a couple of our star players will pull something nice out of the bag to save us. Liverpool score a lot of team goals with build up throughout the team. United will have 2 players combine to score a goal. Thats the difference. Team vs the individual. Liverpool will come away with a 3-0 win and all their players rated 8/10. We will come away with a 3-0 win and most of our players rated in the 6's and those are quite often generous based on the fact half our fans think that the team played well simply if we win a game.
Ok, please show me some analysis that indicates how our goals were scored with less combination play than Liverpool, who, btw, rely heavily on catching their opponent in their half and then scoring with 1-2 passes. But whatever, I obviously don't watch enough football.
We didn't make steady progress over 2 years. We made stumbling progress at best and thats being generous.
We obviously have very different opinions, tastes and perceptions of what Manchester United played in the last 2+ seasons.
I mean most of the team are pampered and overpaid. What is your point here? He is the manager and left an unfit and horrendously entitled bunch of players who don't even have a passing level of professionalism considering their wages. Not just players he signed. I've never claimed the players he signed are particularly problematic over the rest of them.



I assume Ole wanted him because you wouldn't pay that money for a player the manager wasn't bothered about and who isn't exactly a marketing home run.
Just like Mourinho wanted him. Enough to get himself sacked. Pep also wanted him, enough to comment on him several times.

He trots around the pitch, gets caught out repeatedly because he can't be bothered to sprint if he isn't engaged in a direct one on one. Hes on wages that suggest hes actually a decent footballer. The pampered part is because at any other top club he would have been sold or benched if he put in the work rate he does at United.



I mean, hes barely been used but again, the United fan base are idiots and don't seem to understand that putting a player than thrives in a dynamic team that passes and moves wouldn't do so well in a team where players don't have a fecking clue what they are going to do before they get the ball and have to look up and take 2-3s to figure out where all their teammates are.

Same with Sancho, great player in the right team but Dortmund play a very different style of football to us and he doesn't suit our "Ole style" at all.

Not really sure why you are bringing this up or do you want me to go through all of the players Ole has signed...

Our squad (in general) is lazy, underworked and over-indulged.
Comments "in general" are a sign of something. Google it.
Telles is just limited but who knows why we have him. Another player I don't have any real issue with other than him not really being good enough. Cavani has always been a worker. Ole didn't work some sort of magic on him. Hes just demotivated this season and has had a number of injuries.
Got it. Ole is at fault only for SOME players, but not all. So Cavani now is demotivated but was motivated last season because?
I know a lot of Liverpool fans and most of them worship the ground he walks on and although they admit that Klopp has the structure in place to allow him to do his best work, they also dread the day he leaves.
You should ask them how they felt in his first two seasons.

What older players did he sign for significant amounts. RvP is the only one that comes to mind and RvP was bloody amazing. Probably the most quality I have seen from a striker in the PL in a single season. Scored some sublime goals. Fergie was brilliant at using what he had, getting the most from it and doing just enough. He was given money to get certain players but he wasn't backed to anything like the degree that our managers since him have.
Berbatov comes to mind.

Of course its not that simple, I never said it was. Again, I'm not sure what your point is. He got players he wanted, missed out on ones he would rather have and I'm sure everything in between. Every manager has that. Klopp and Guardiola included.
Difference is that when Guardiola has a bad transfer or a player he doesn't want anymore (Mangala, Otamendi, Danilo, Delph, Hart, Bony, Nolito, Fernando, Kolarov, Nasri, Dzeko, Jovetic, Zabaleta, Navas, Caballero, Bravo) his club sells them. No questions asked. No "preservation of value". How many of those would still be in our squad if roles were reversed?
Klopp doesn't. He gets what he can and he works with it. Hes just a very very good manager and gets the best out of players because (as I have been trying to gently suggest) the team is more important than the individual in all the best teams. Ole was rubbish at creating a good team. He assembled what was at times a good set of players but he built and coached a shit team.
"He gets what he can and he works with it". Are you serious? Henderson and Firmino are the only remnants of the team he inherited. Do a bit of research before writing bs.
 

Decomposing In Paris

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One thing Ralf has done is to bring to light just how big the job is on rebuilding the whole club which will help ETH in the short and hopefully the longer term so just by taking the pressure slightly off the next manager is a plus on his side. People that want to give him zero credit are continually failing to look at the bigger picture.

We've been waiting for years for someone to tell it how it really is and now we have that someone it's a PR stunt? He's been a disaster as interim for whatever reasons but could prove to be one of the best things to happen to the club in a long time.

Just by hiring him has taken the club forward. If a lot of people got their wish and we hired Conte it would set us back even longer because our players would of downed tools on him as well due to the work ethic his system requires. Instead we're getting in one of the hottest properties in football. The club are finally moving forward and Ralf is a part of that and I find it hard to understand why people have completed written him off considering the experience he has in (re) structuring clubs.
He’s taken the pressure off? You think United fans, fan-cams, or the press, are going to be patient with ETH? Just because the squad have been stripped of all belief doesn’t mean we won’t be expected to make the Top4 & win a trophy at the first/second attempt. He’s made a restart even harder by making our players more difficult to sell at decent money, and the confidence of the ones who’ll remain is on the floor. Big picture, he’s been an incredibly poor managerial appointment. That’s not to say he can’t do well in his next role, but he’s not as yet proven competent or trustworthy, just opinionated.
 

Forevergiggs1

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He’s taken the pressure off? You think United fans, fan-cams, or the press, are going to be patient with ETH? Just because the squad have been stripped of all belief doesn’t mean we won’t be expected to make the Top4 & win a trophy at the first/second attempt. He’s made a restart even harder by making our players more difficult to sell at decent money, and the confidence of the ones who’ll remain is on the floor. Big picture, he’s been an incredibly poor managerial appointment. That’s not to say he can’t do well in his next role, but he’s not as yet proven competent or trustworthy, just opinionated.
I actually do think he's taken at least a little bit of the pressure off of ETH. If he had of come in instead of Ralf i believe he wouldn't of faired that much better. By all amounts he's a hard task master and since our players don't seem willing to put in the hard work necessary they probably would of down tooled with him as well.

People still believe that after finishing second we were only a step away from competing on all levels again. ( myself included) That was before the players showed their true character which would of set us back longer if it wasn't exposed before ETH came in. Instead of 1 or 2 windows which would of been expected without knowing the full implications of how rotten the core is people should be a little more lenient knowing that THs job will be harder than previously thought.

I think it's only a small minority that think we'd win anything at the first or second attempt without gutting a large chunk of the squad. Ralf wasn't wrong when he said we need 10 players and to move a lot on. As that isn't going to happen in 1 window it's unfair to think ETH would come in and transform us from the get go. Patience is key.

If we follow the Klopp method of improving the performances year after year then that's all any fan can realistically ask for and people calling for his head if we don't win anything in his first season don't understand how football works.
 

Ali Dia

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I think in hindsight he’s obviously not done a good job steadying the ship. If his remit was to get in and gut the team for the next fella or it this is just how it happened I think some positives will come out of it soon. I’ll be so glad so see the useless squad majorly stripped back, shine a light on the twattish nature of too many of these players and let some fresh enthusiastic and hopefully more economically responsible (from a wages perspective) fitter, harder working players have a crack at it. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards. I don’t want us to build another team that comes a poor second on quicksand. We need to set strong foundations for years to come. The dressing room clearly needs dismantling before they down tools under the next fella and the fella after too.
 

Foxbatt

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The question that needs to be asked is why did we stop playing like the first half against CP? I am very interested to know the answer and I hope once he leaves he gives the reason why we changed the style.
 

mu4c_20le

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One thing Ralf has done is to bring to light just how big the job is on rebuilding the whole club which will help ETH in the short and hopefully the longer term so just by taking the pressure slightly off the next manager is a plus on his side. People that want to give him zero credit are continually failing to look at the bigger picture.

We've been waiting for years for someone to tell it how it really is and now we have that someone it's a PR stunt? He's been a disaster as interim for whatever reasons but could prove to be one of the best things to happen to the club in a long time.

Just by hiring him has taken the club forward. If a lot of people got their wish and we hired Conte it would set us back even longer because our players would of downed tools on him as well due to the work ethic his system requires. Instead we're getting in one of the hottest properties in football. The club are finally moving forward and Ralf is a part of that and I find it hard to understand why people have completed written him off considering the experience he has in (re) structuring clubs.
Just fyi, our two long term targets this summer was always going to be ETH or Poch. So let's not pretend that Rangnick is the one responsible for bringing him here. Maybe he put his opinion forward and edged the board away from Poch towards Ten Hag, thats all.

I mean, if we look at everything with your rose tinted glasses, we may as well start worshipping Richard Arnold, since he is the one who started the ball rolling on these wholesale changes, including the decision to bring in your godfather, Ralf Rangnick to save our club. Richard is the best thing to happen to our club in a long time now.
 

Forevergiggs1

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Just fyi, our two long term targets this summer was always going to be ETH or Poch. So let's not pretend that Rangnick is the one responsible for bringing him here. Maybe he put his opinion forward and edged the board away from Poch towards Ten Hag, thats all.

I mean, if we look at everything with your rose tinted glasses, we may as well start worshipping Richard Arnold, since he is the one who started the ball rolling on these wholesale changes, including the decision to bring in your godfather, Ralf Rangnick to save our club. Richard is the best thing to happen to our club in a long time now.
What on earth are you talking about? In no shape or form have I mentioned that RR is in any way responsible for bringing in ETH but to quote yourself, "Maybe he put his opinion forward and edged the board away from Poch towards Ten Hag, thats all."

It's your own suggestion so nothing to do with me but if that were the case don't you think it's an enormous decision that deserves some sort of recognition? Of course you don’t. Some people won't allow themselves to give RR any sort of credit even though no one knows exactly how he's influenced things behind the scenes wheeas with Ole you were prepared to give him the keys to the kingdom and believed all the shite that he spouted in all the time he was with us. Baffling.
 

mu4c_20le

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What on earth are you talking about? In no shape or form have I mentioned that RR is in any way responsible for bringing in ETH but to quote yourself, "Maybe he put his opinion forward and edged the board away from Poch towards Ten Hag, thats all."

It's your own suggestion so nothing to do with me but if that were the case don't you think it's an enormous decision that deserves some sort of recognition? Of course you don’t. Some people won't allow themselves to give RR any sort of credit even though no one knows exactly how he's influenced things behind the scenes wheeas with Ole you were prepared to give him the keys to the kingdom and believed all the shite that he spouted in all the time he was with us. Baffling.
You said Just by hiring him has taken the club forward. I assumed that's what you meant because it's probably his single biggest contribution.

But if you didn't mean he was responsible for bringing in ETH, then how has he taken the club forward, and why is he the best thing to happen to us in decades?
 

Forevergiggs1

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You said Just by hiring him has taken the club forward. I assumed that's what you meant because it's probably his single biggest contribution.

But if you didn't mean he was responsible for bringing in ETH, then how has he taken the club forward, and why is he the best thing to happen to us in decades?
What I mean is Ralf has far more experience than everyone else at the club combined in actually having what it takes in (re) structuring clubs from top to bottom and I'm sure along the way he has made his own contacts which could stop us buying marquee players for extortionate amounts of money and for once in many years buy players that have still to make a name for themselves which in turn would lower our wage structure plus getting us away from spending 80m on average players by bringing in 2 or 3 for the same price but with a lot more effect.

He has the experience. The club should use it however limited it is.
 

Vapor trail

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Think Rangnick has been a total disaster.

The biggest issue is much of the club's problems are now public knowledge. I don't think anyone has considered that the players who the club would like to sign how would they be impacted by the knowledge of what's wrong with the club being that it is so out in the open ? These issues should be dealt with internally.

I think much of what Rangnick has said has been correct however those conversations should have been conducted behind closed doors not in front of a microphone at press conferences.
 

Foxbatt

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Think Rangnick has been a total disaster.

The biggest issue is much of the club's problems are now public knowledge. I don't think anyone has considered that the players who the club would like to sign how would they be impacted by the knowledge of what's wrong with the club being that it is so out in the open ? These issues should be dealt with internally.

I think much of what Rangnick has said has been correct however those conversations should have been conducted behind closed doors not in front of a microphone at press conferences.
No. I am sure this has been done before and nothing has changed. Now it is in the public domain if they do not act, the fans would riot.
 

Decomposing In Paris

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No. I am sure this has been done before and nothing has changed. Now it is in the public domain if they do not act, the fans would riot.
Creating a scenario where a large crowd (or mob) is given information from a single source (propaganda) to target any individual but the whistleblower, with even the suggestion of a “riot” is just wonderful. I’m so glad he came. Where’s the champagne, & pass the cake.
 

Foxbatt

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Creating a scenario where a large crowd (or mob) is given information from a single source (propaganda) to target any individual but the whistleblower, with even the suggestion of a “riot” is just wonderful. I’m so glad he came. Where’s the champagne, & pass the cake.
There is no targeting of any individual. Murtough is using Ralf to get what he wants which is change in a different direction. A lot of big organizations do that. Especially if there are public stakeholders.
 

The Constant Gardener

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It's called 'kitchen sinking' guys, it's a well known term in company management for when a new guy takes over, basically all the bad news is released at once clearing the path for a revival whilst laying all the blame at the door of the previous regime/s. Stops the constant drip drip of bad news that can hamper the recovery process.

Ralf has done magnificently in this role imo.
 

The United

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There is no targeting of any individual. Murtough is using Ralf to get what he wants which is change in a different direction. A lot of big organizations do that. Especially if there are public stakeholders.
TBF, the team and Ole failing this season after spending for the last 2-3 years was and should have been enough for the new CEO and new director to try the direction of the club they wanted. I mean it was not like everything looked rosy and everyone thought Woodward was doing a great job even before that.

All these dramas and circus just hurt the club more than they should in public and I am not exactly sure if it is a good thing to attract good employees/players (especially and supposedly the guy who got hired for a change does dirty laundry in public of how the club did not listen to him and whatnot weekly). The changes were coming anyway with Woodward stepping down. It is normal that a new CEO/director will have a new direction in general.

It is just a mess, and which is why I still don't have much faith in the 'new' leadership yet.
 

Yakuza_devils

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Yes, Rangnick is a total disaster but we can't put all the blame on him:

1) The board appointed wrong interim manager for the squad of players we have. People saying we appointed Rangnick to lay foundation for modern football but none of it was evident. Also, Rangnick has not been in football management for years. I suspect he is a theory guy more suitable for DOF roles rather than practical day to day management and implementation of style of play as manager. He lost the dressing room in such a short period of time due to lack of communication skills, man management and different football ideology.

2) The board didn't back him on obvious deficiency in the squad of CDM and ST required to secure Top 4. The storyline of the scouts vetoed the move is comical when we have a DOF in charge and Rangnick can named name on top of his head.

3) No proper football structure. Case in point, Lingard was given a day off by the board with game coming up without Rangnick approval and Rangnick was not sure the roles of Fletcher in the club. Constant dressing rooms leaks and etc.
 

Daengophile

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Rangnick wasn't given enough time to make an impact

Rangnick wasn't given the right players to make an impact

Rangnick wasn't allowed any money to buy players to make an impact

Anyone who wants to classify this as his failure should take up magic and find a top hat from which they can extract rabbits from thin air as football is clearly beyond you
 

Decomposing In Paris

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There is no targeting of any individual. Murtough is using Ralf to get what he wants which is change in a different direction. A lot of big organizations do that. Especially if there are public stakeholders.
Then who will be on the receiving end of the “riot”? We had fans at Woodward’s house. It’s not like a riot is going to hop on a plane to Florida. It’s going to be individuals targeted. Even if it’s a small group of individuals. Otherwise we’re just back to vandalising the club. Brilliant. Football isn’t like other industries because people don’t often change allegiance, there’s far more emotional thinking involved. Using Ralf? Like when Ralf plucked out 3 completely different profiles of striker in retrospect & criticised the board (to the press) for not pursuing them in the last 48 hrs of the January window? Blaming the board in public, that’s a standard business principle? Ralf has been exposed at the top level of football in 2022, and he’s publicly blamed all around him in self preservation. Unlike other businesses football has a reset point for a new season, & he’s known for some time that he was safe until then. Either that or he’s been trying to get sacked.
 

AndySmith1990

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Think Rangnick has been a total disaster.

The biggest issue is much of the club's problems are now public knowledge. I don't think anyone has considered that the players who the club would like to sign how would they be impacted by the knowledge of what's wrong with the club being that it is so out in the open ? These issues should be dealt with internally.

I think much of what Rangnick has said has been correct however those conversations should have been conducted behind closed doors not in front of a microphone at press conferences.
What has he said that is so private and something we couldn't have already guessed? We already knew the club was a poorly run toxic shit hole, full of overpaid and under qualified arse holes, and we already knew certain players are lazy tossers who cause disruption. We already knew we needed a clear out. Rangnick isn't giving out classified information here, it's not like if he'd said nothing we'd now be blissfully unaware of all the problems we have.
 

Decomposing In Paris

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What has he said that is so private and something we couldn't have already guessed? We already knew the club was a poorly run toxic shit hole, full of overpaid and under qualified arse holes, and we already knew certain players are lazy tossers who cause disruption. We already knew we needed a clear out. Rangnick isn't giving out classified information here, it's not like if he'd said nothing we'd now be blissfully unaware of all the problems we have.
Well, Martial & Lingard have both refuted things he’s said in the press. Things that made them targets for a ravenous press & an increasingly toxic fanbase… Leaders protect their team, and players you want to be on your team can see when a leader has no love for those they are leading. Players would have run through walls for Ferguson at United, Klopp at Liverpool, or Mourinho at Chelsea. They are great leaders. It’s no small thing for a player to have to defend themselves against their own manager in public, it should never come to that.
 

mctrials23

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Well, Martial & Lingard have both refuted things he’s said in the press. Things that made them targets for a ravenous press & an increasingly toxic fanbase… Leaders protect their team, and players you want to be on your team can see when a leader has no love for those they are leading. Players would have run through walls for Ferguson at United, Klopp at Liverpool, or Mourinho at Chelsea. They are great leaders. It’s no small thing for a player to have to defend themselves against their own manager in public, it should never come to that.
All of those you have mentioned have not had to deal with horrendously toxic dressing rooms full of players who don't give a shit.

If you want a good example taken from your list there, why has Mourinho struggled so much over the past 5+ years in management? Has he suddenly forgot how to manage players? No, he had a core of very motivated players and recruited in the same image. Personally I think Mourinho has fallen from grace almost entirely because he is unwilling or unable to handle the modern footballer who knows that they are bigger than the manager.

Ferguson cleared out the bad elements in the dressing room when he arrived and made sure that it never festered into a huge mess again. Players in their prime were sold because they threatened the harmony of the squad or his power during his time at United. Klopp was allowed to do the same. He also didn't inherit a lazy bunch of entitled cnuts.

Good managers defend their players when it's in the teams best interest to do so. They do it when there are a couple of issues that need to be ignored for the greater good of the team. If it was one or two players then fine, protect them. When it's a huge number of the players giving the rank minimum there is no value in protecting them.

Ole protected the players for his entire time here. Perhaps because he knew that the players being vaguely happy was the only thing keeping him in a job because he damn well hadn't coached them into a team that won through their collective quality. 3 years of giving far too little and far too low expectations have left us in this mess. Ole was very much part of the dysfunction by allowing these players to develop their attitude issues.
 

Rex Banner

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I'm surprised so many people still think his 'consultancy' will amount to much. We didn't even consult him when it came to hiring Ten Hag. He's going to be managing Austria next season, yet people seem to think he'll have some big role in the restructuring of the club going forward.

As an interim manager, he's been an absolute disaster. Just a shocking appointment.
 

DevilRed

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I'm surprised so many people still think his 'consultancy' will amount to much. We didn't even consult him when it came to hiring Ten Hag. He's going to be managing Austria next season, yet people seem to think he'll have some big role in the restructuring of the club going forward.

As an interim manager, he's been an absolute disaster. Just a shocking appointment.
Thank feck he will be doing something else.

Im glad he will be far away from my club. Absolute and total failure.

Airing our dirty laundry out in public. Its one thing to throw the players under the bus, which absolutely does nothing for man management and probably why they have turned on him.

Its another to start divulging info that the board did not bring in specific targets etc. We have Jadon Sancho and Cristiano Ronaldo in the side and this feckwit wants us to sign another 2 to go with them? Just because he wasn't able to get the best out of the team?

What part of interim manager does he not understand? Obviously we aren't going to be signing anyone until we have a permanent manager in place.

Any competent manager would have got us to fourth place. Big fecking sam would have been able to do it with this talent.