UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[Fingeredmouse]

I think the SNP are just as likely to be kingmakers and they probably would work with Labour. But I can imagine the Lib Dems after the election working with Labour in the same way the DUP did with the Tories. Swinson has to say she won't go with Labour at the moment as there's quite a few million Tory remainers out there and they wouldn't touch the Lib Dems if they thought they were electing JC with their vote.

Agreed on all points.

 

[Drifter]

Always wanted to know.What is the point of the undecided?

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Always wanted to know.What is the point of the undecided?

I imagine, given the fact we have, in effect, a general election/referendum combo occurring simultaneously, plus huge dis-satisfaction amongst many with the parties that lots of people won't have made their mind up yet.
A remain Tory, for instance, is on a sticky wicket.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

A remain Tory, for instance, is on a sticky wicket.

Lib Dem surely? I think anti-Corbyn Labour voters have it tougher unless they go Green.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I think the SNP are just as likely to be kingmakers and they probably would work with Labour. But I can imagine the Lib Dems after the election working with Labour in the same way the DUP did with the Tories. Swinson has to say she won't go with Labour at the moment as there's quite a few million Tory remainers out there and they wouldn't touch the Lib Dems if they thought they were electing JC with their vote.

True.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Amber Rudd to step down as MP.

 

[Smores]

I hope those DUP and UKIP votes are in jest.

 

[TheGame]

Amber Rudd to step down as MP.

She was always on a slim majority but didn’t expect that.

 

[TheGame]

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[esmufc07]

I'm confused, so you do understand the logic of a confirmation referendum but you're just trying to deflect from the Lib Dems stupidity?

Bit of a difference between saying we'll do Brexit and then ask you if you're sure when we have the details to "We demand a referendum but we won't enact your result". Or would Lib Dems have enacted the results when Swinson said it in that video?

The Lib Dem position has changed, just as the Labour position has. Any Labour deal won't be 'doing Brexit' to a lot of leave voters because presumably they will remain part of the SM and CU, which a lot of leave voters do not want.

 

[esmufc07]

Should have a poll estimating how many seats each party will get.

Honestly I think it is impossible to call. I've listened to a lot of pollsters and what the most astonishing thing to me is that 49% of voters are considered 'floating' voters, when it's usually at around 13%. Astonishing figure really and it's all to play for.

Just please do not be a Tory majority.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[DFreshKing]

Honestly I think it is impossible to call. I've listened to a lot of pollsters and what the most astonishing thing to me is that 49% of voters are considered 'floating' voters, when it's usually at around 13%. Astonishing figure really and it's all to play for.

Just please do not be a Tory majority.

I think the only floating people are doing is Tory or Brexit Party (leave) Labour, SNP, LibDems, Greens(Remain). Leave well ahead in England (outside major cities) Scotland hugely remain.

If the Brexit party does not put up candidates all over the country as mooted then it's game set and match Tories. Huge majority and five years to control all new trade deals and the transition out of the EU. This is a nightmare for labour leave voters and Never leave voters. The majority though I believe are democratic remainers and tory leavers so I suppose that is democracy in action.

 

[Jippy]

@SteveJ I guess demonising still counts as 'prioritising' on one level?

 

[esmufc07]

Why are people insistent on giving Johnson praise for securing a deal from the EU which they offered Theresa May and she rejected out of hand?

 

[SteveJ]

@SteveJ I guess demonising still counts as 'prioritising' on one level?

Incredible.

 

[Jippy]

Incredible.

Forgot the key words of 'the poor', but you get the gist.

 

[Sweet Square]

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I think the lib dems get a hard deal over the coalition. The context at the time was global recession, the country going bust and trillions of pounds being pumped into the banks in an attempt to keep our economy viable on it's feet, whether that should have happened or not is a separate discussion.

David Laws said they would have preferred to go in to coalition with Labour, it was a much more natural fit, but the talks with Brown weren't taken seriously by Labour at all and together they still wouldn't have had the numbers to get a majority in the commons. The country desperately needed stable government, a minority government at that point would have been a disaster.

Yes their voting record in coalition was not perfect and yes they were forced to u turn on tuition fees, but they did good as well. Raising the income tax threshold, pupil premium, investment in green energy, the banking levy, even gay marriage was the result of massive pressure from the Lib Dems, despite Cameron's support, the majority of the Tory party and cabinet were dead against. The Tory government unleashed without them since 2015 has been disastrous.

Like I've stated I'm not a Lib Dem supporter, but the way so many people write them off as power grabbing whores is an easy argument in my opinion and ignores, the good they tried to do and the good they achieved.

Lib Dems time in the tory coalition summed up here -

Spoiler

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Swinton time in the coalition.

The new Liberal Democratic leader Jo Swinson took over as employment minister in 2012, when he was promoted to energy minister. On her Lib Dem leadership campaign website Swinson claims that “as Minister for Employment Relations” she delivered “a fairer deal for workers.” She will, she says promisingly, “build an economy that puts people and the planet first.”

But as a minister, Swinson intensified the attack on workers’ rights. In 2012, Swinson was boasting about “the direct benefits to business of extending the qualifying period for unfair dismissal.” She then made things much worse: she introduced charges of up to £1,200 for the privilege of attending an employment tribunal, placing justice even further out of reach for workers.

In 2017 the Supreme Court decided Swinson’s fees scheme “prevents access to justice and is therefore unlawful.” The judges agreed with the long-running legal case brought by trade union Unison, who argued that the number of people going to tribunals had dropped by 79 percent because people were being priced out of justice. The government cancelled Swinson’s fees and agreed to pay back the £32 million wrongly charged to workers who made it through the maze.

This wasn’t even the full extent of Swinson’s contributions in office. In 2013, she said zero-hour contracts offered “helpful flexibility for the employee” and were a “useful tool for flexibility in employment” while ruling out introducing a ban. In fact, as minister, Swinson oversaw the introduction of new legislation formalizing flexible working hours. She also came out strongly against increasing the minimum wage, going so far as to suggest it should be frozen or even cut if there was another downturn. Maybe it’s no surprise she receives such praise from Corbyn’s staunchest opponents.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/07/liberal-democrats-cable-davey-swinson

Also she hates these guys for feck sake!

Spoiler

I get people really want to see the Liberals as nice soft centre lefties who just want to make the UK a progressively better place etc. But its simply not the case, the Lib Dems aren't a bunch of Ed Milibands(btw gay marriage needed Labour votes to pass.). Swinson still frames austerity as being ''tough choices'' politicians had to make, most of their new MPs are tories and in some cases think austerity was a success. One new Lib Dem is in favour of testing migrates for HIV!

The Lib Dems aren't on the left and barely struggle to reach the liberal bar. They are a centre right party.

 

[LARulz]

Ours is on the 12th. At least I'll be too drunk to care about the result.

I can't, the election means we have to work. If it was the day before then the party would still go ahead and probably be mayhem

 

[Fluctuation0161]

@SteveJ I guess demonising still counts as 'prioritising' on one level?

Seems outright lies are acceptable too.

 

[VeevaVee]

Is a vote that would cancel Brexit not possible now?

Are Labour the best vote if it has to go ahead?

I had to stop following for my own sanity.

 

[Jippy]

Also, the DM is making out that a four day week and cutting tuition fees are bad things

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I think that Labour's strength here is that the Tories are trying to polish a big steaming turd. There's so much for a good campaign to attack.

 

[VeevaVee]

Also, how do I check to make sure I'm registered to vote? I kept myself registered at my dad's for ease as I'm always moving around and the fecking idiot removed me then readded me, so I need to check.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Honestly I think it is impossible to call. I've listened to a lot of pollsters and what the most astonishing thing to me is that 49% of voters are considered 'floating' voters, when it's usually at around 13%. Astonishing figure really and it's all to play for.

Just please do not be a Tory majority.

The politicians are so bad, other than the fiercely loyal supporters I would imagine many people don't know who to vote for, or what to do for the best.

Strangely if people voted for the Brexit Party instead of Tories it could actually lead to Brexit not happening, which would be ironic.

A small Tory majority could be a real possibility though.

 

[Sweet Square]

Is a vote that would cancel Brexit not possible now?

Pretty much. The Lib Dems have said if they win a majority they would revoke article 50 but

1)They won't win a majority.

2)Even if that somehow happened, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't follow through with it. As the amount of shit it would cause. Revoking article was just to hype up their voting base.

Are Labour the best vote if it has to go ahead?

If Labour form some sort of government(Majority or coalition with the SNP)Brexit wouldn't go ahead. Labour policy will be to have another referendum within 6 months between Remain vs Labour Deal(Whatever that will be). Also if Labour has a manifesto pledge to give EU citizens(And possibly 16 year olds) the right to vote, then it guarantees Remain would win another referendum

With the possibly exception of tactical voting, vote Labour if you want to try and remain in the EU.

 

[esmufc07]

Pretty much. The Lib Dems have said if they win a majority they would revoke article 50 but

1)They won't win a majority.

2)Even if that somehow happened, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't follow through with it. As the amount of shit it would cause. Revoking article was just to hype up their voting base.


If Labour form some sort of government(Majority or coalition with the SNP)Brexit wouldn't go ahead. Labour policy will be to have another referendum within 6 months between Remain vs Labour Deal(Whatever that will be). Also if Labour has a manifesto pledge to give EU citizens(And possibly 16 year olds) the right to vote, then it guarantees Remain would win another referendum

With the possibly exception of tactical voting, vote Labour if you want to try and remain in the EU.

The Lib Dem’s absolutely would revoke A50 on day 1 if they returned a majority. Won’t happen of course, but the idea they wouldn’t enact their campaign pledge which saw them catapulted into power is ludicrous.

 

[Sweet Square]

Fracking lobbyist hired to draw up Tory manifesto

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-hired-to-draw-up-tory-manifesto-rachel-wolf

 

[Jippy]

Fracking lobbyist hired to draw up Tory manifesto

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-hired-to-draw-up-tory-manifesto-rachel-wolf

That's a great headline.

 

[Sweet Square]

The Lib Dem’s absolutely would revoke A50 on day 1 if they returned a majority. Won’t happen of course, but the idea they wouldn’t enact their campaign pledge which saw them catapulted into power is ludicrous.

Is it ?

They aren't even running on it. If a party was going to put forward such a ultra remain policy then you would think they might want to warm the public up to it ? At the moment their position in interview and to the public is still a second referendum.

Although on the other hand -

'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.' So maybe your right

Bushism reference

 

[VeevaVee]

Pretty much. The Lib Dems have said if they win a majority they would revoke article 50 but

1)They won't win a majority.

2)Even if that somehow happened, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't follow through with it. As the amount of shit it would cause. Revoking article was just to hype up their voting base.


If Labour form some sort of government(Majority or coalition with the SNP)Brexit wouldn't go ahead. Labour policy will be to have another referendum within 6 months between Remain vs Labour Deal(Whatever that will be). Also if Labour has a manifesto pledge to give EU citizens(And possibly 16 year olds) the right to vote, then it guarantees Remain would win another referendum

With the possibly exception of tactical voting, vote Labour if you want to try and remain in the EU.

Thanks for this!

 

[Smores]

Also, the DM is making out that a four day week and cutting tuition fees are bad things

It's incredible how they all go from Boris will spend being a good thing to Labour will spend to being a bad thing. They obviously believe the Tories have stolen the magic money tree.

I don't even expect the 4 day week to make it into the manifesto. It was one of those 'to explore' policies.

 

[Cee90]

Is there a website or some form of resource which simplifies what the feck is going on so that it would make sense to a 5 year old?

I honestly can't keep up.

Politics has a way of alienating certain parts of society with the jargon that comes along with it.

 

[Smores]

I still think revoke would be a terrible mistake. It'll have us with another referendum far sooner and the next time they'll go straight no deal.

Quite rightly a lot of you have been arguing that it was wrong to implement brexit on such a small majority and percentage of the population. Now you think it's okay to revoke on a mixed issue GE that will require a far smaller number to get a majority.
It really does undermine your own positions and make it no better than brexiteer bollocks

 

[Solius]

Is there any hope that the Tories won't win this?

Very pessimistic about the stubbornness and intelligence of the public. There's so many people who see the parties as a side they're on and no amount of lies or bullshit will change that.

Honestly feels like Johnson could spew multiple obvious lies on stage and then shit his pants and some people would praise him.

 

[Smores]

Is there a website or some form of resource which simplifies what the feck is going on so that it would make sense to a 5 year old?

I honestly can't keep up.

Politics has a way of alienating certain parts of society with the jargon that comes along with it.

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[Red Dreams]

The country is so splintered.
Whoever has to form the government will have a crisis on their hands.

 

[711]

Is there any hope that the Tories won't win this?

Very pessimistic about the stubbornness and intelligence of the public. There's so many people who see the parties as a side they're on and no amount of lies or bullshit will change that.

Honestly feels like Johnson could spew multiple obvious lies on stage and then shit his pants and some people would praise him.

Tory betting odds currently 1/6 on to get most seats, just slightly odds on to get an actual majority. Still, events and all that, bigoted women, bacon butties, anything can happen.

 

[sullydnl]

Is there any hope that the Tories won't win this?

Very pessimistic about the stubbornness and intelligence of the public. There's so many people who see the parties as a side they're on and no amount of lies or bullshit will change that.

Honestly feels like Johnson could spew multiple obvious lies on stage and then shit his pants and some people would praise him.

I can't see how they won't, unless the election campaign throws up a huge issue out of left field.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I still think revoke would be a terrible mistake. It'll have us with another referendum far sooner and the next time they'll go straight no deal.

Quite rightly a lot of you have been arguing that it was wrong to implement brexit on such a small majority and percentage of the population. Now you think it's okay to revoke on a mixed issue GE that will require a far smaller number to get a majority.
It really does undermine your own positions and make it no better than brexiteer bollocks

I agree with you actually, a straight revoke would be hugely divisive and probably would see rioting. As I got lambasted for the other day I think that it should go to a referendum with remain and a harder Brexit as the only options. I think something like Johnson's deal should be the harder Brexit option because the public should not be allowed to vote for a hard Brexit on the grounds it breaks the GFA. A soft Brexit is the worst of all worlds and satisfies no one while leaving us wedded to the EU only on much much worse terms than if we remained. If remain can't win a referendum against a such a bad deal like Johnson's then so be it.