UK General Election - 12th December 2019 | Con 365, Lab 203, LD 11, SNP 48, Other 23 - Tory Majority of 80

[Sassy Colin]

Also, the DM is making out that a four day week and cutting tuition fees are bad things

It's the DM, so it's all bollocks anyway, but, in any case, how are these things supposed to be paid for? Yes, I'd love to earn the same money for working 4 days rather than 5, but I'd still have to do 5 days work in those 4 days. If this is truly a Labour policy, it's the policy of bunch of simpletons, or a bribe to the electorate which could not possibly be delivered on. Either way, if you believe that, you'll believe anything.

 

[sammsky1]

I don't criticise those who want to vote selfishly or because of greed but its not a difficult choice is it?

If you're leave then Tory
If you're crackpot leave then Brexit Party
If you're remain, whichever party might defeat the Tories in your seat.

What if Brexit isn't the centre of your gravy train? I don't think it is for many many people.

Sure its an interesting ethical, economic or political discussion, but I doubt its the centre of gravity for majority of people's day to day lives.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I still think revoke would be a terrible mistake. It'll have us with another referendum far sooner and the next time they'll go straight no deal.

Quite rightly a lot of you have been arguing that it was wrong to implement brexit on such a small majority and percentage of the population. Now you think it's okay to revoke on a mixed issue GE that will require a far smaller number to get a majority.
It really does undermine your own positions and make it no better than brexiteer bollocks

The Uk are having an election because of Brexit, the Uk got an extension and didn't leave with no deal because they were holding an election.

The genie is out of the bottle - if a party or parties promoting revoke win a majority surely that says the electorate agrees - don't forget after the 2017 election people were saying that if people voted Tory or Labour they were voting for Brexit.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Interesting how Labour, despite being run by a bunch of Marxist idiots, is still polling higher, by some margin, in the RedCafe poll.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I thought people read the manifestos first before deciding who to vote for, at least that was what I was told by certain Caf members.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Not the best start by the Tories with a slogan "Britain Deserves Better" particularly when they've been in power for 9 years.

 

[Drifter]

The country is so splintered.
Whoever has to form the government will have a crisis on their hands.

Now that is very true . If they are honest with themselves ,nobody really wants to be in charge of the country ,with what's going to come down the line.But would still prefer it run under Labour.

 

[711]

I can't see how they won't, unless the election campaign throws up a huge issue out of left field.

Labour are pinning their hopes on a popular manifesto, unfortunately for them the Tories are waiting for just that manifesto so they can wade into it. It could be a vote winner or a suicide note.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Is a vote that would cancel Brexit not possible now?

Are Labour the best vote if it has to go ahead?

Pretty much. The Lib Dems have said if they win a majority they would revoke article 50 but

1)They won't win a majority.

2)Even if that somehow happened, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't follow through with it. As the amount of shit it would cause. Revoking article was just to hype up their voting base.


If Labour form some sort of government(Majority or coalition with the SNP)Brexit wouldn't go ahead. Labour policy will be to have another referendum within 6 months between Remain vs Labour Deal(Whatever that will be). Also if Labour has a manifesto pledge to give EU citizens(And possibly 16 year olds) the right to vote, then it guarantees Remain would win another referendum

With the possibly exception of tactical voting, vote Labour if you want to try and remain in the EU.

This argument is likely to be Labour's official line over the next 6 weeks, but its a flawed argument designed to make Labour seem like the best choice for Remainers.

The line of reasoning supposes there's only one way for the Lib Dems to have any influence, which is if they're in Government. That's plainly false. If the Lib Dems have a really good election, say 40+ seats, then they'll return to Parliament able to have a significant impact on proceedings. With that number of MPs, Labour would more than likely have to work alongside the Lib Dems, and more pertinently, it would make it clear to Labour a clear Remain position is preferred by many Remain voters than the position that Labour has taken.

In 2017 Labour's performance in the election was seen as an endorsement of their pro-leave position, even though many Remainers voted Labour, and it opened the door for Labour to continue to avoid backing Remain over the last two years. The worry for me as a Remainer is that a vote for Labour now will be seen as a further endorsement of their current position, which is at best "TBC", and at worst, they won't back Remain in a second referendum but will stay neutral, which I personally think would be bad for the Remain campaign.

If the Lib Dems have a strong election, then I think that pushes Labour into an overt Remain position as well, which I think is good if Remain is what you're after.

Which isn't to say that you should automatically vote Lib Dem if you want Remain. A good Lib Dem campaign probably equals a bad Labour campaign, which risks the "Vote Lib Dem, get Tories" proposition, that's not a small concern. And of course in some places the Lib Dems just aren't a force and its a simple choice between Labour and the Tories anyway. But the argument being made is only half the story.

 

[sammsky1]

Interesting how Labour, despite being run by a bunch of Marxist idiots, is still polling higher, by some margin, in the RedCafe poll.

RedCafe is full of Marxist idiots?

 

[Jippy]

It's the DM, so it's all bollocks anyway, but, in any case, how are these things supposed to be paid for? Yes, I'd love to earn the same money for working 4 days rather than 5, but I'd still have to do 5 days work in those 4 days. If this is truly a Labour policy, it's the policy of bunch of simpletons, or a bribe to the electorate which could not possibly be delivered on. Either way, if you believe that, you'll believe anything.

You must have seen the figures on how the UK has persistently lagged most of Europe on productivity- there is something to be said for having a happier, more relaxed workforce. How that would not wreak havoc on the schedule of a weekly magazine, for example, is another matter though, agreed.

 

[Full bodied red]

Interesting how Labour, despite being run by a bunch of Marxist idiots, is still polling higher, by some margin, in the RedCafe poll.

I'm shocked that the labour vote isn't 100% considering the overwhelming majority of posts here on the Caf the past three or four years on anything to do with politics or Brexit.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Not the best start by the Tories with a slogan "Britain Deserves Better" particularly when they've been in power for 9 years.

Yeah but he clarified that it's Parliament & Jeremy Corbyn in particular that have been holding everything up and preventing him doing the Lords work. Cop on.

Interesting how Labour, despite being run by a bunch of Marxist idiots, is still polling higher, by some margin, in the RedCafe poll.

Maybe people appreciate an honest idiot over a lying blabbermouth. Or maybe people have had enough of this self serving Tory shit show over the last 10 years that they feel like giving something else a try.

 

[Honest John]

Labour are pinning their hopes on a popular manifesto, unfortunately for them the Tories are waiting for just that manifesto so they can wade into it. It could be a vote winner or a suicide note.

If the Tories don't wade into it (like they didn't last time) then they'll only have themselves to blame. Johnson needs to push both agendas and not just concentrate on Brexit.

 

[Sassy Colin]

You must have seen the figures on how the UK has persistently lagged most of Europe on productivity- there is something to be said for having a happier, more relaxed workforce. How that would not wreak havoc on the schedule of a weekly magazine, for example, is another matter though, agreed.

I simply could not do what I do now in 5 days in 4 days, as I already do 6 days work in 5 days.

 

[Sweet Square]

In 2017 Labour's performance in the election was seen as an endorsement of their pro-leave position, even though many Remainers voted Labour, and it opened the door for Labour to continue to avoid backing Remain over the last two years. The worry for me as a Remainer is that a vote for Labour now will be seen as a further endorsement of their current position, which is at best "TBC", and at worst, they won't back Remain in a second referendum but will stay neutral, which I personally think would be bad for the Remain campaign.

If the Lib Dems have a strong election, then I think that pushes Labour into an overt Remain position as well, which I think is good if Remain is what you're after.

Which isn't to say that you should automatically vote Lib Dem if you want Remain. A good Lib Dem campaign probably equals a bad Labour campaign, which risks the "Vote Lib Dem, get Tories" proposition, that's not a small concern. And of course in some places the Lib Dems just aren't a force and its a simple choice between Labour and the Tories anyway. But the argument being made is only half the story.

Out of interest why ?

The people staying neutral would be at best the cabinet but more likely just Corbyn. Labour MP's would be able to campaign for whatever side they want and groups like Momentum would be campaigning for Remain. And again there still is the chance of labour giving EU citizens rights to vote which regardless of how much help or how awful a future Remain campaign would give them the win in a referendum. If Labour goes in fact support 16 year olds and EU citizens getting the vote then there is no reason why any Remainer should vote Lib Dem over Labour.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Out of interest why ?

The people staying neutral would be at best the cabinet but more likely just Corbyn. Labour MP's would be able to campaign for whatever side they want and groups like Momentum would be campaigning for Remain. And again there still is the chance of labour giving EU citizens rights to vote which regardless of how much help or how awful a future Remain campaign would give them the win in a referendum. If Labour goes in fact support 16 year olds and EU citizens getting the vote then there is no reason why any Remainer should vote Lib Dem over Labour.

Why would it be bad or why would it happen?

As for the EU cit/16 and 17yo issue, that isnt unique to Labour so isnt a reason to favour them over another party.

 

[Dumbstar]

I will be voting Labour as a mug obviously. Better be sunny that day. when I say I will be voting I mean my small constituency aka my Pakistani extended family. Keep the seat warm for ol' Sadiq when Corbs has gone full PM. Never go full PM.

Seriously though, I hope another referendum is brought on the table. Don't trust Libs since their anal friendship (did I spell that right, looks spot on) with the Tories. And every other party is pointless, as always.

 

[Kasper]

Interesting how Labour, despite being run by a bunch of Marxist idiots, is still polling higher, by some margin, in the RedCafe poll.

Probably because the majority on here are smart enough not to view labour's leadership as a bunch of Marxist but I guess that's hard to grasp for someone who actually equated Corbyns policies with Hitler's national socialism.

 

[Red Dreams]

Interesting how Labour, despite being run by a bunch of Marxist idiots, is still polling higher, by some margin, in the RedCafe poll.

Sorry for you, the Nazis are not running, but you can still vote Conservative.

 

[Red Dreams]

Now that is very true . If they are honest with themselves ,nobody really wants to be in charge of the country ,with what's going to come down the line.But would still prefer it run under Labour.

Labour is the only option.
But we can depend on the Lib/Dems to stab them in the back.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Interesting how Labour, despite being run by a bunch of Marxist idiots, is still polling higher, by some margin, in the RedCafe poll.

It's very reassuring as is your continued sassiness Colin.

 

[VeevaVee]

This argument is likely to be Labour's official line over the next 6 weeks, but its a flawed argument designed to make Labour seem like the best choice for Remainers.

The line of reasoning supposes there's only one way for the Lib Dems to have any influence, which is if they're in Government. That's plainly false. If the Lib Dems have a really good election, say 40+ seats, then they'll return to Parliament able to have a significant impact on proceedings. With that number of MPs, Labour would more than likely have to work alongside the Lib Dems, and more pertinently, it would make it clear to Labour a clear Remain position is preferred by many Remain voters than the position that Labour has taken.

In 2017 Labour's performance in the election was seen as an endorsement of their pro-leave position, even though many Remainers voted Labour, and it opened the door for Labour to continue to avoid backing Remain over the last two years. The worry for me as a Remainer is that a vote for Labour now will be seen as a further endorsement of their current position, which is at best "TBC", and at worst, they won't back Remain in a second referendum but will stay neutral, which I personally think would be bad for the Remain campaign.

If the Lib Dems have a strong election, then I think that pushes Labour into an overt Remain position as well, which I think is good if Remain is what you're after.

Which isn't to say that you should automatically vote Lib Dem if you want Remain. A good Lib Dem campaign probably equals a bad Labour campaign, which risks the "Vote Lib Dem, get Tories" proposition, that's not a small concern. And of course in some places the Lib Dems just aren't a force and its a simple choice between Labour and the Tories anyway. But the argument being made is only half the story.

Thanks for another view. I thought that may be the case. I think the number one priority for me is getting Tories out, number two is remain (although on another day this could easily switch round), so Labour seems to be the safest vote.

 

[Drifter]

Interesting how Labour, despite being run by a bunch of Marxist idiots, is still polling higher, by some margin, in the RedCafe poll.

If fighting for the working people,less fortunate and the forgotten is marxist. Then sign me up comrade.

 

[Damien]

Dick Braine quits UKIP.

 

[Jippy]

I simply could not do what I do now in 5 days in 4 days, as I already do 6 days work in 5 days.

You need a new job!

 

[TheGame]

Someone asking proper questions for once:

 

[Drifter]

Someone asking proper questions for once:

I fear that this is what the media will try and frame this election as, Brexit . And i can see the Tories are of to a good start, lying about Police numbers.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Interesting how Labour, despite being run by a bunch of Marxist idiots, is still polling higher, by some margin, in the RedCafe poll.

Maybe, just maybe, you're wrong.

 

[Eboue]

I simply could not do what I do now in 5 days in 4 days, as I already do 6 days work in 5 days.

Maybe if you spent less time posting here.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Sorry for you, the Nazis are not running, but you can still vote Conservative.

Have you any idea how fecking insulting that is?

Just because I'm not a Commie bastard, doesn't make me a Nazi ffs! I am passionately pro Remain, who the feck am I supposed to vote for, smart arse?

 

[Sassy Colin]

Maybe if you spent less time posting here.

I think you may be onto something.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Maybe, just maybe, you're wrong.

McDonnell is a Marxist, of that here is no doubt. My boss, who was, until recently, a lifelong member of the Labour Party, revoked his membership because of this.

 

[Sweet Square]

Why would it be bad or why would it happen?

Why would it be bad for a Labour government to stay neutral on a new referendum ?

As for the EU cit/16 and 17yo issue, that isnt unique to Labour so isnt a reason to favour them over another party.

Yeah but Labour are the ones that can form some sort of government.

 

[Sweet Square]

Christ! Who are the 4 people that picked UKIP ?

 

[Siorac]

It's the DM, so it's all bollocks anyway, but, in any case, how are these things supposed to be paid for? Yes, I'd love to earn the same money for working 4 days rather than 5, but I'd still have to do 5 days work in those 4 days. If this is truly a Labour policy, it's the policy of bunch of simpletons, or a bribe to the electorate which could not possibly be delivered on. Either way, if you believe that, you'll believe anything.

The exact same arguments were used against the 5-day workweek back then. It was going to cripple businesses, ruin the economy and all that.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

Christ! Who are the 4 people that picked UKIP ?

General consensus seems to be that it's a joke but the feckers do actually exist in reality. At least some of them meant it, I bet, and are reading this.

 

[Smores]

McDonnell is a Marxist, of that here is no doubt. My boss, who was, until recently, a lifelong member of the Labour Party, revoked his membership because of this.

He's not much of a marxist if he is

It's just the same tired accusations that happen across the west. Milliband was a dangerous marxist according to the papers and every democrat is apparently a dangerous Venezuelan commie. Simple lines fool simple people.

 

[Red Dreams]

Have you any idea how fecking insulting that is?

Just because I'm not a Commie bastard, doesn't make me a Nazi ffs! I am passionately pro Remain, who the feck am I supposed to vote for, smart arse?

Do you think before you post?

You think what I said is insulting.??

 

[Fingeredmouse]

McDonnell is a Marxist, of that here is no doubt. My boss, who was, until recently, a lifelong member of the Labour Party, revoked his membership because of this.

A lifelong member of the Labour party who only just noticed that there are Marxists within the party? Your boss is extraordinarily inattentive regarding the party of which they were a member.