That's Bullshit though. The guy was a Dr. There was no immediate response team that needed to be somewhere.
United Airlines forcibly remove passenger from overbooked flight
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
It's confusing cos a report says got on the same flight which departed 2 hours late.
So, did someone else give up their seat or did the United personnel give up a seat? I demand answers!
So, did someone else give up their seat or did the United personnel give up a seat? I demand answers!
From what I saw it was United employees going to a corporate meeting. After asking numerous times no one did so they did a computer generic search and he held his seat because he had patients he had to see. That's what I've read.It's confusing cos a report says got on the same flight which departed 2 hours late.
So, did someone else give up their seat or did the United personnel give up a seat? I demand answers!
I agree. As I said earlier. If they want to use this practice, start at a 100 and increase 100 at a time until there are sufficient seats. Simple.
Lawyers are going to be lined up for miles to take this case, this is money in the bank.
If it's one thing this doctor doesn't have to worry about, is getting legal representation
I think you should be able to sell your seat and they have to double your fair and a free night and $1000 cash. If you're going intentional for a week a next day flight could cost you a night in a room. A family members time and ruining your timetable.
If there is a life or death situation is completely different. That should be international law. There was no apparent life or death here.
That's what is usually done. If a passenger has to be off-loaded, they are sponsored by the airline for whatever duration he has to wait for the next flight. In the cases of International flights, the airline would book a hotel for them and pay for everything else, meals, transport, etc till they are stuck at the same place. Obviously, the airline doesn't want this situation either and in 99.9999% cases it doesn't happen, but in peak times especially something like this can happen and the passengers need to understand the situation. On the odd case where the passenger asked to disembark has to take the flight really urgently the situation becomes tricky and such a overblown argument isn't unheard of. At that point there's nothing anyone can do.
This is just one instance, as bt said above, the captain of the flight can ask (and by that I mean tell) any passenger to get off his plane at any time whatsoever and there is nothing in your ticket booking that would stop him (or the security personnel that would follow as we saw). What this incident should be used for is perhaps educating people further about aviation rules and what they can expect in such a rare situation and what all rights an air ticket reservation provides them, a guarantee of a seat on the plane is not one of them, even if most people travel their whole lives regularly without ever facing this situation.
It doesn't help that most people when asked to offload would pretend to have an urgent circumstances which is why airline professionals don't usually listen to someone who tries to explain them. The best thing if a passenger really has to reach somewhere (no, even the most important 'business meeting' doesn't qualify for that, has to be emergency circumstance) and has a proof for the same, he should ask a fellow passenger to volunteer with the airline providing them compensation. In this video itself the entire flight is busy shooting a man getting dragged off and not one of them volunteered to resolve the situation thee, when obviously many of them wouldn't have an issue travelling the next day with the airline paying for everything they have to pay for during the delay. It's why you cannot really get the entire situation just by looking at a few second without knowing what happened before that, they must have tried everything before they had to call the security and literally drag him out. Though in situations like off-loading things often escalate but the result is always the same, I'm talking more generally having spent years witnessing such situations.
@Moby, thanks for your informative response. I think the airline will now be regretting not offering a really big inducement to encourage people to get off the plane, as I know this will have cost them an absolute fortune in money and loss of reputation.
edit - The BBC says the third of the three passengers who were also asked to leave the flight was the doctor's wife - she complied, he didn't.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39556910
edit - The BBC says the third of the three passengers who were also asked to leave the flight was the doctor's wife - she complied, he didn't.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39556910
Last edited:
Yep. Whoever was looking over that flight (the United Staff) would have had to handle the situation and they usually have the freedom to offer good compensation to quickly curb such a situation but a lot of times these staff people can be equally stubborn for whatever reason. Can't say they did a good job in this case.
I got bumped by ethiad once...
Limmo to a five star hotel
Suite at said hotel
Meals included
Limmo back to the airport
Upgraded to first
And around £500
But of course it depends if you can be flexible
Limmo to a five star hotel
Suite at said hotel
Meals included
Limmo back to the airport
Upgraded to first
And around £500
But of course it depends if you can be flexible
You have plainly never flown South African Airways.
We were refused entry at the gate despite being in plenty of time for the flight and having valid boarding passes because they let too many people onto the plane. That my son was already seated and heading to Sydney where he had no means of getting home (he couldn't drive yet). We later found out that they had about 5 more passengers than seats and many had duplicate boarding passes. One latecome jumped into one of my son's mate's seat when he stood up to get his bag and the staff then tried to offload an unacompanied child (albeit a very tall 16 year old one) and it all hot very heated with the coach of their team neatly ending up in a fight with the dickhead who jumped into the seat.
We were then laughed at by the gate staff who said "not my problem" when asked what they were going to do before they ran off and locked themselves behind a security door.
18 months later we still haven't had a reply email from them although we got most of the cost of buying new flights from a real airline and the hotel bill back fron the credit card company for non-supply of service.
An airline once tried to bump me from a flight because they overbooked despite us beibg first in line to check in but we got on by refusing to move from the counter until they gave us boarding passes and there was only 1 open counter. When the queue got to over 100 pissed off people they caved.
That's the normal procedure, if there's an off-loading it usually happens at the gate.
For the rest of it, that is obviously absolutely disgraceful and something that would be great if pointed out in the public domain, I'm not really surprised to hear that, complete lack of organisation such as that happens a lot more than it should especially in smaller airlines, but even in the most prominent ones. You were really unfortunate there to have been on wrong end of that situation. The problem in off-loading cases usually is that it's the captain who authorizes that, obviously and after that there's no way you can do anything at that point, unless you convince the pilot to let you back. He has the final say. But yeah that kind of chaotic situation should absolutely not happen, having 5 more passengers is a failure in terms of booking estimates in the first place, those many off-loadings would only happen if they have completely fecked up from the start. They wouldn't bother replying, btw, and that is the sort of cuntishness most airlines show in such situations which is actually a problem that should be brought up a lot more. Even in the simplest cases like loss of luggage they'd give you a hard time getting any sort of co-operation when it's bad enough for someone to face that in a foreign country. A lot depends on the location where you find yourself in such a situation and how good the infrastructure and support system of that country is in the first place, there would never be a universal global standard.
Its the behaviour of the marshalls/police that really should be of most concern here, but seems to be kind of taken for granted, cops get involved people get hurt kind of thing.
There is no excuse. They knew he posed no threat, having been through airport security, they know there are no weapons, hes a little old man, and they knocked him out and dragged him from the plane. None of them even checked he hadn't swallowed his tongue as he was dragged out or anything. That is no trained police force, that is little more than licensed thugs.
If I were american, the normalisation of police brutality would be the most concerning part of it all.
There is no excuse. They knew he posed no threat, having been through airport security, they know there are no weapons, hes a little old man, and they knocked him out and dragged him from the plane. None of them even checked he hadn't swallowed his tongue as he was dragged out or anything. That is no trained police force, that is little more than licensed thugs.
If I were american, the normalisation of police brutality would be the most concerning part of it all.
I dont think this overbooking thing and forcing people to leave is normal at all. It cant be talked right in any way, take the no shows if necessary but you cant treat people like that. Unless if you friendly ask and have good compensation for it, still the people shoud accept that offer imo.
5 is what happened to me too, with KLM. Maybe it's quite common.
Worst poem ever.
According to Reddit (so take with a pinch of salt), they offered $400, then $800, but no one accepted. Then they brought on a 'computer' to select at 'random' (there were suggestions that it was done by cheapest ticket because it requires less compensation).
If they'd used common sense and common courtesy instead of being penny pinching arseholes then they wouldn't be out so much money from the inevitable lawsuit and people now avoiding their airline. Apparently one company spent over a million on United flights per year, and this tipped them over the edge to stop booking with them after a number of other things (again Reddit, so meh).
If they'd used common sense and common courtesy instead of being penny pinching arseholes then they wouldn't be out so much money from the inevitable lawsuit and people now avoiding their airline. Apparently one company spent over a million on United flights per year, and this tipped them over the edge to stop booking with them after a number of other things (again Reddit, so meh).
Chinese netizens are now claiming racism on United Airlines' part.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...acism-call-for-boycott-after-man/3669366.html
This is incredibly bad publicity for the company
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...acism-call-for-boycott-after-man/3669366.html
This is incredibly bad publicity for the company
They guy's a doctor, not john matrixThis did crack me up for some reason. Unless he's suffered a severe blow to the head why's he acting like that, as a doctor
My background is in Hotels and Restaurants, both of which employ overbooking to circumvent no-shows and loss of revenue.
While I've never really liked the idea of it, I get the policy as hotel beds and restaurant seats are a perishable good - once the time allotted has passed, the good had expired and cannot be sold again.
The difference here is that airlines receive 100% of the ticket fee in advance of the flight. Air flight revenue is not structured in such a way that a large portion is generated in flight (as hotel or restaurant revenue often is) either so there is no legitimate or ethical argument for overbooking in this industry.
When you are providing transport to paying customers, you have a duty of care towards them, as you do when feeding or hosting them overnight. I don't care what it says in the fine print, or what the industry norm is, a system whereby you attempt to receive payment twice for the same product is wrong, even if it only affects the odd customer, once in the blue moon.
It is not about how much money you offer as compensation. Some things are more important than money and this is not a ticket to a football match or an off the shelf item in a clothes shop - it is a flight and the person you are randomly selecting may have a genuine, critical reason for travelling where and when they are.
While I've never really liked the idea of it, I get the policy as hotel beds and restaurant seats are a perishable good - once the time allotted has passed, the good had expired and cannot be sold again.
The difference here is that airlines receive 100% of the ticket fee in advance of the flight. Air flight revenue is not structured in such a way that a large portion is generated in flight (as hotel or restaurant revenue often is) either so there is no legitimate or ethical argument for overbooking in this industry.
When you are providing transport to paying customers, you have a duty of care towards them, as you do when feeding or hosting them overnight. I don't care what it says in the fine print, or what the industry norm is, a system whereby you attempt to receive payment twice for the same product is wrong, even if it only affects the odd customer, once in the blue moon.
It is not about how much money you offer as compensation. Some things are more important than money and this is not a ticket to a football match or an off the shelf item in a clothes shop - it is a flight and the person you are randomly selecting may have a genuine, critical reason for travelling where and when they are.
The max compensation in this case was $1300. Kind of weird that they stopped at $800 and felt forced to throw someone out. A $500 difference is a big one and someone would've probably taken that, eventually.According to Reddit (so take with a pinch of salt), they offered $400, then $800, but no one accepted. Then they brought on a 'computer' to select at 'random' (there were suggestions that it was done by cheapest ticket because it requires less compensation).
If they'd used common sense and common courtesy instead of being penny pinching arseholes then they wouldn't be out so much money from the inevitable lawsuit and people now avoiding their airline. Apparently one company spent over a million on United flights per year, and this tipped them over the edge to stop booking with them after a number of other things (again Reddit, so meh).
got this from twitter. So the fact that the doctor already got a seat in the fecking plane, and the seats is given to a non paying employee should give the guy and advantage if he decided to sue
Hopefully the brutes that think recklessly assaulting people on an aircraft is acceptable use of force lose their jobs and suffer badly.
And if the moron manager decided to offer an acceptable incentive then perhaps the person that asked for a very reasonable $1600 would have taken up that offer.
You can't help but feel awful for the man in the video. He's the victim of corporate greed, idiotic management and security bravado. That people would even begin to question his initial position and try to support the airline is staggering.
You can't help but feel awful for the man in the video. He's the victim of corporate greed, idiotic management and security bravado. That people would even begin to question his initial position and try to support the airline is staggering.
Money grubbing whore (just like the airlines)
We're they UA security or Air Marshalls?
My point is he doesn't seem very calm and professional - two traits you'd associate with doctors. Obviously it's a traumatic experience for the guy but acting like that is a bit melodramatic. It's terrible practice resorting to forcibly removing someone from a plane but he looks completely deranged in that second video. I'd be pissed off but I wouldn't get back on and run around repeating "I need to get home".
feck knows how he got back on anyway. This company seems an utter shambles, even when they do forcibly remove a harmless bloke they can't even keep him off
Comparing his reaction to your hypothetical reaction, and trying to rationalise it with how doctors 'should' act is just victim blaming.My point is he doesn't seem very calm and professional - two traits you'd associate with doctors. Obviously it's a traumatic experience for the guy but acting like that is a bit melodramatic. It's terrible practice resorting to forcibly removing someone from a plane but he looks completely deranged in that second video. I'd be pissed off but I wouldn't get back on and run around repeating "I need to get home".
feck knows how he got back on anyway. This company seems an utter shambles, even when they do forcibly remove a harmless bloke they can't even keep him off
How he acted has precisely nothing to do with this situation.
He's 69 years old and probably never experienced anything remotely like this in his life. Being calm and professional in your working capacity is totally different to a crazy situation like this.My point is he doesn't seem very calm and professional - two traits you'd associate with doctors. Obviously it's a traumatic experience for the guy but acting like that is a bit melodramatic. It's terrible practice resorting to forcibly removing someone from a plane but he looks completely deranged in that second video. I'd be pissed off but I wouldn't get back on and run around repeating "I need to get home".
feck knows how he got back on anyway. This company seems an utter shambles, even when they do forcibly remove a harmless bloke they can't even keep him off
Just heard it was only a 300 mile flight 
$500 and free limo. Sorted.
Or put the flight crew who wanted the seats in the limo. This is just too easy.
$500 and free limo. Sorted.
Or put the flight crew who wanted the seats in the limo. This is just too easy.
I just thought the second video was a bit weird. Doesn't seem like an appropriate reaction at all.
Hard to so exactly because he's just a doctors and not some combat proven personnel.My point is he doesn't seem very calm and professional - two traits you'd associate with doctors. Obviously it's a traumatic experience for the guy but acting like that is a bit melodramatic. It's terrible practice resorting to forcibly removing someone from a plane but he looks completely deranged in that second video. I'd be pissed off but I wouldn't get back on and run around repeating "I need to get home".
feck knows how he got back on anyway. This company seems an utter shambles, even when they do forcibly remove a harmless bloke they can't even keep him off
Plus the anxiety and anger, us normal humans won't be able to hold our cool in such situations
It was weird but concussed people often act in an erratic fashion. Whether he had concussion is unclear but he obviously took a blow to the head of some sort.
It wasn't authorised by anyone. They came to the realistion that they had fecked up when people started fighting over seats, panicked and shut the gate. We knew nearly 40 people on the flight (our connection from Cape Town was later due to another SAA feck up). We arrived at the gate 45mins ahead with boarding passes in hand with the minimum 30 mins before departure (the flight was also an hour late taking off so we were there 1 hr 45 mins before actual takeoff). We would have been there even earlier except the public announcement system was totally down and the departures board was dead. SAA sent us to the wrong departure gate which we only discovered when the board was eventually turned on again. Our seats were in the middle of nearly 40 people we knew and 2 people (3 including me) had the same boarding pass. So this wasn't a case of overbooking, it was a sheer an utter feck up by SAA. Worst airline in the world IMO. SA is great but never fly SAA if you have a choice. Filthy old 747s at best and meh service from disinterested (at best) staff.
And I have a Trip Advisor review that has been read by thousands. I'm hoping I've cost them millions.