Well, that too. But we could have fixed the mistake in the summer.
"Up to 11 players now want to leave United after becoming disillusioned with life at the club."
- Thread starter sullydnl
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Mane presses, runs, creates, and causes havoc much more than Rashford. Ask any neutral who they would rather have starting in their team and I'd say most would choose Mane over Rashford.
Now go back to the first point. We overpay a lot for underacheievers and generally lazy players. Rashford is on twice the money that Mane is on...
Yes I thought that was an interesting interview by shaw. I wonder which players aren't performing, I think rashford, awb, matic, sancho?
Our entire British contingent is overpaid and overhyped (possibly not Greenwood). Shaw, Maguire, Rashford, Sancho, McTominay, Lingard, Henderson, AWB. There's not a league title between them and some of them are on massive salaries, they should all be running themselves into the ground for the manager.
By bizarre you mean defaulting back to what Ole did when he realised our players are in no shape to play how he wants?
We should allow him to get rid of all the overpaid divas in the squad even if it means we miss out on top 4.
Im 100% behind Ralf here. The players are snakey little cnuts. Hopefully we see wholesale changes in the next 6 months.
We need a massive clear-out in the squad, and when bringing in new players to replace them I would say that their mentality and attitude should be considered as thoroughly and highly as their talent. I would prefer a less talented player with the right mentality and attitude over a bigger talent that’s not willing to the dirty work, any day.
Let’s start off with selling of any of the players that are just running down their contracts, for whatever it takes to get them of our books now, and absolutely no new extensions to any of them; Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Cavani and Grant.
Then sell anyone of the first-team players that are now out on loan in the summer as they’ve already been considered as not good enough; Williams, Tuanzebe and Pereira.
Furthermore, sell anyone who doesn’t want to be here, anyone who doesn’t have their heart into it needs to go; judging by the media-rumors that’s Martial, Henderson and DvdB.
Finally sell anyone that’s entering their final contract-year in the summer; Matic.
That’s at least 12 players that should be, or should’ve been, sent out the door now.
We need a clear-out and we need to start now in January!
Let’s start off with selling of any of the players that are just running down their contracts, for whatever it takes to get them of our books now, and absolutely no new extensions to any of them; Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Cavani and Grant.
Then sell anyone of the first-team players that are now out on loan in the summer as they’ve already been considered as not good enough; Williams, Tuanzebe and Pereira.
Furthermore, sell anyone who doesn’t want to be here, anyone who doesn’t have their heart into it needs to go; judging by the media-rumors that’s Martial, Henderson and DvdB.
Finally sell anyone that’s entering their final contract-year in the summer; Matic.
That’s at least 12 players that should be, or should’ve been, sent out the door now.
We need a clear-out and we need to start now in January!
Say what you like about the media peddling these stories, but we all know it's true.
We have a club builder in place now with Rangnick. He needs to be given the autonomy to ride roughshod over our entire football operation (if you can call it that). I trust him and his experience far more than the arrogant, reprehensible players & staff we have at the club at present.
We need cataclysmic change, and it has to start now.
We have a club builder in place now with Rangnick. He needs to be given the autonomy to ride roughshod over our entire football operation (if you can call it that). I trust him and his experience far more than the arrogant, reprehensible players & staff we have at the club at present.
We need cataclysmic change, and it has to start now.
Yep. Unlike Ole, I know Ralf is actually capable of building sides that can play a dynamic, high press with successful results. Its clear the players are the issue here.
I'm just hoping he and whoever our permanent manager is, is given the agency to ditch the players they feel are an adverse presence to this team, though I fear the higher ups will overrule them if said players include the 'marketable' ones like Ronaldo, Rashford and our expensive Captain Buyer's Remorse.
Pure guess work on my part but Rashford has been so fecking bad and generally looks like he cba even playing I wouldn’t be surprised if he wants out
We're going to struggle to sell most of those. Clubs aren't going to rush to submit bids for players that are out of contract very soon, and the others on loan just aren't very good tbh, so I doubt we'd see huge incomings for them. Only players I see us fetching decent fees for are Tuanzebe, Henderson and perhaps Martial.
if players want to complain and moan. They can leave. If it means getting rid of half the squad, so be it. They are getting paid stacks of money- if they don’t want to put in and work hard. Show them the door
The players having been running or trying to run the club since sir Alex left. How many managers do we need to go through before the club starts laying the blame at the players feet
The players having been running or trying to run the club since sir Alex left. How many managers do we need to go through before the club starts laying the blame at the players feet
On one side is a manager who has just joined in, seems to have new ideas on how a good team should play, talks about the weakness this teams has and appears to have plans/tactics to fix it and has proven track record of building clubs up to the modern footballing style.
On other side are a group football players most of whom cannot manage even 5/10 performance consistently for three games despite having played under multiple managers for many years. Who, put together, probably have the lowest footballing IQ I have ever seen on a footballing pitch, who cannot make a simple passes without messing up, cannot hold the ball or carry it forward without running into opposition players, who put half hearted efforts into closing down opposition players.
I would gladly side with the manager on this one.
On other side are a group football players most of whom cannot manage even 5/10 performance consistently for three games despite having played under multiple managers for many years. Who, put together, probably have the lowest footballing IQ I have ever seen on a footballing pitch, who cannot make a simple passes without messing up, cannot hold the ball or carry it forward without running into opposition players, who put half hearted efforts into closing down opposition players.
I would gladly side with the manager on this one.
All very well saying sell X, Y, Z... clearing them off our books is the struggle. With the exception of perhaps Pogba (given he can move freely), I can't see any of them earning anywhere near what they're getting at the club currently. It's clear that we have a huge proportion of our squad that are just sticking around for their pay-check - it's just indicative of the utter mess we have made for ourselves.
I honestly don't know what the answer is now. I thought we were in need of a cultural reset, but then I genuinely thought we were on the right path with that going into this season. We've just utterly capitulated. What makes this season more damning than others is that at least under the likes of Moyes, LVG and Jose you could see it coming. Yes, we probably overachieved in our league position last year, but you're telling me there wasn't reason to be hopeful going into this season? It's just utterly crashed.
The divisions within the squad are clearly a huge issue, and you can't help but think it's probably based around a British/homegrown contingent and our foreign players. Basically those who were seen as untouchable by Ole, and those that are now getting more time under Ralf.
Ronaldo's return has probably upset the apple cart due to the demand for success he has. His standard is almost certainly superior to everyone else's at the club, and definitely higher than most our players have the ability to achieve.
Right now I'm backing the new manager (although I have my doubts), and would gladly see him gut the squad where he sees fit - although I'm not sure if this is even possible due to the sheer numbers going, the wages they're on, and the amount we forked out for a large portion needing binning off.
I honestly don't know what the answer is now. I thought we were in need of a cultural reset, but then I genuinely thought we were on the right path with that going into this season. We've just utterly capitulated. What makes this season more damning than others is that at least under the likes of Moyes, LVG and Jose you could see it coming. Yes, we probably overachieved in our league position last year, but you're telling me there wasn't reason to be hopeful going into this season? It's just utterly crashed.
The divisions within the squad are clearly a huge issue, and you can't help but think it's probably based around a British/homegrown contingent and our foreign players. Basically those who were seen as untouchable by Ole, and those that are now getting more time under Ralf.
Ronaldo's return has probably upset the apple cart due to the demand for success he has. His standard is almost certainly superior to everyone else's at the club, and definitely higher than most our players have the ability to achieve.
Right now I'm backing the new manager (although I have my doubts), and would gladly see him gut the squad where he sees fit - although I'm not sure if this is even possible due to the sheer numbers going, the wages they're on, and the amount we forked out for a large portion needing binning off.
No it hasn't been but i don't think it would be fair to pin it on Ralf yet.
The last few game were simply awful because newcastle, burnley and wolves simply outrun us and our overpaid millionaire crybabies can't be arsed to put in a shift in front of the home crowed.
I think VDB, Henderson, Lingard, Martial and Baily can be flogged soon if we really wanted. Can probably bring around 50-60m in for them too which helps funds 2 much improved transfers.
Feck these players and hail King Ralf.
Ralf has already said publicly in the nicest way possible that he doesn’t know what Phelan does in our setup, so god knows how he feels about some of these players collecting wages and barely playing under Solskjaer.
Ralf has already said publicly in the nicest way possible that he doesn’t know what Phelan does in our setup, so god knows how he feels about some of these players collecting wages and barely playing under Solskjaer.
There's obviously good cause for scepticism towards this kind of tabloid story, for all the usual reasons. As in previous reports of unrest, the focus seems to boil down to players who are dissatisfied over a lack of playing time. But also in view of what we're seeing on the pitch, it does feel like the smoke has to reflect a certain amount of fire this time.
We can always speculate about who's involved and opine about who's to blame, but what is for sure is that in any case this is bad news. A riven squad won't progress, and if all or even some of the squad isn't buying into RRs plan or his leadership, we're well and truly fecked.
As if we needed more things to worry about.
We can always speculate about who's involved and opine about who's to blame, but what is for sure is that in any case this is bad news. A riven squad won't progress, and if all or even some of the squad isn't buying into RRs plan or his leadership, we're well and truly fecked.
As if we needed more things to worry about.
You know I actually enjoyed not watching us during the covid break, so refreshing not to waste my time with this shambles of a club. I've been a fan since 1993, we've had so many legends, players who would give their all for this club. Now, I have no idea what we are. How did it get so bad?
I wouldn't be too bothered about losing any of the "rumoured" 11 players looking to go. My only concern is they probably all won't leave in Jan, and if they hang around do they continue to bring morale down. The other issue is how much control do we give to Rangnick on players that can go and stay considering he's only an interim. It's the LVG scenario where we let Evans go and then we spend the next few years trying to find a ball playing centre half when we let one go on the cheap. Evans wasn't perfect, but for me, is better or at least as good as, those that came after him, for big money.
He did? What did he say?
I stand by my point.
This fanbase is the pits!
No wonder at all that we have the kind of players that we do.
Let’s get rid of a manager who has been here for 6 weeks and hasn’t got us to the top of the league yet. What a failure
Only 5 days until we can pour our love out for the players we repeatedly sing about who are shite and don’t deserve to wear the shirt.
The fact that you can’t run a training session the day after a match is well known. They’re so strict about enforced rest they aren’t even allowed a game of golf! Likewise the need to devote sessions immediately before a match to specific preparations for that match. We could argue the toss about 6, 7, 8 days training focussed on implementing a completely different way of playing but it’s a trivial amount regardless.
I’m not going to pretend we’ve been anything other than shit under Rangnick so far but there’s a tonne of mitigating factors. Not least the obvious long-term player discontent festering under the surface that’s the subject of this thread. We know he’s not a long term solution but it would be ridiculously knee jerk to show him the door at this early stage.
Think a lot of people have quietly had their suspicions about Rashford for a long time. The worry is that people are letting him think he's bigger than the club. Giving him an inflated contract when he didn't deserve it was the icing on the cake. Had he been at Liverpool or City, I think he would've been sold in the upcoming summer window, he's underperformed for far too long.
For all that is said about Ole's rebuild, there's plenty that need to be ditched.
Henderson - needs to leave on an 18 month loan to another club, give him to Newcastle if they're interested, let him develop into a more so complete GK and if he does so, if he performs, then when he returns have him take over #1 spot for permanent - De Gea is not the complete keeper. Loan.
Williams, Tuanzebe are completely surplus to requirements, they won't be getting ahead of the cluster we have right now. Sell.
Bailly - a crock, given chances and ends up injured repeatedly. There's a good CB in him, but too error prone, too injury prone, he won't make it ahead of Maguire/Varane let alone Lindelof. Sell.
AWB - awful, awful, awful. So limited on the ball, brings nothing to the attack. Awful. A massive handicap for our side. Sell, sharpish. Straight away.
McTominay - should be sold. Again, another limited player. Hides from the ball, hides from tackles, his progressive play is dreadful, can't pass forward and doesn't have the technical abilities to make an impact in the final third (has a good shot on him though). Won't happen but should be sold.
Matic - contract ending in 2023 IIRC, let him go then, will be useful to have around as a back up/5th CB till then.
DVB - play him or sell him. I don't know what he's done to deserve this treatment but it's laughable. Not being given a chance ahead of some dross performances. It's baffling.
Pereira - not good enough. Sell.
Mata - let him go. Too old, not good enough. Bizarre we renewed his contract.
Lingard - let him go in January, don't want him near the squad, it's quite obvious he is behind leaks too. Sell in January. Sharpish.
Martial - a real shame it didn't work out with him but he isn't suited for the modern game, he is too lethargic in his game, not good enough for pressing. Sell.
Chong - won't make it. Sell.
Get rid of that lot. Within 6 months. Get rid of them.
Williams, Tuanzebe and Chong should fetch a collective £20m. AWB - £15m, Bailly - £15m, Pereira - £10m, Lingard - £5m, Martial - £30m and with Matic, Cavani and Mata all leaving by 2023, that will free up contract resources.
You can scrape about £100m from that lot.
Henderson - needs to leave on an 18 month loan to another club, give him to Newcastle if they're interested, let him develop into a more so complete GK and if he does so, if he performs, then when he returns have him take over #1 spot for permanent - De Gea is not the complete keeper. Loan.
Williams, Tuanzebe are completely surplus to requirements, they won't be getting ahead of the cluster we have right now. Sell.
Bailly - a crock, given chances and ends up injured repeatedly. There's a good CB in him, but too error prone, too injury prone, he won't make it ahead of Maguire/Varane let alone Lindelof. Sell.
AWB - awful, awful, awful. So limited on the ball, brings nothing to the attack. Awful. A massive handicap for our side. Sell, sharpish. Straight away.
McTominay - should be sold. Again, another limited player. Hides from the ball, hides from tackles, his progressive play is dreadful, can't pass forward and doesn't have the technical abilities to make an impact in the final third (has a good shot on him though). Won't happen but should be sold.
Matic - contract ending in 2023 IIRC, let him go then, will be useful to have around as a back up/5th CB till then.
DVB - play him or sell him. I don't know what he's done to deserve this treatment but it's laughable. Not being given a chance ahead of some dross performances. It's baffling.
Pereira - not good enough. Sell.
Mata - let him go. Too old, not good enough. Bizarre we renewed his contract.
Lingard - let him go in January, don't want him near the squad, it's quite obvious he is behind leaks too. Sell in January. Sharpish.
Martial - a real shame it didn't work out with him but he isn't suited for the modern game, he is too lethargic in his game, not good enough for pressing. Sell.
Chong - won't make it. Sell.
Get rid of that lot. Within 6 months. Get rid of them.
Williams, Tuanzebe and Chong should fetch a collective £20m. AWB - £15m, Bailly - £15m, Pereira - £10m, Lingard - £5m, Martial - £30m and with Matic, Cavani and Mata all leaving by 2023, that will free up contract resources.
You can scrape about £100m from that lot.
I agree with you, selling/letting go of the mentioned players won't finance an entire rebuildt but it might finance a player or two that will actually contribute. Without considering the high wages we will get rid of, we could perhaps get a combined 90m for these players, and I'm not including the free transfer departures; Martial(20), Henderson(25), DvdB(20), Matic (5), Tuanzebe(10), Pereira(5) and Williams(5). If anybody where to offer us a transferfigure now for a player with an expiring contract in the summer I'd say take whatever someone is willing to give us.
As if the on pitch stuff isn't bad enough, there's this constant stream of media sh!te like this, social media awash with every little reaction from this player, that player. It's really dull.
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My agenda? We all knew that these absolute fecking wastes of space had zero intention of signing new contracts and they should have been sold in the summer on that basis alone, and that's before we even get into their shitty attitude and complete disrespect for the club and the fans, blaming those entitled twats is given. But if you don't think Solskjaer shouldn't shoulder some of the blame for the current situation we find ourselves in, when it was painfully obvious we needed a clear out in the summer, then I don't really know what to say? They should have gone, at bargain bin prices, get their wages off the books and get shut of them and their negativity, and I'm saying this as someone who backed Solskjaer until the West Ham cup game.
4222 doesn't cut it for us, Cavani-Ronaldo don't work together and the half wingers are struggling as well as the fact that we don't have the CMs for the system. Cut it out, Ralf.
GK - De Gea, Heaton is decent enough - Henderson needs to leave for his own good, cannot be stringing him along like this, it is not fair at all. If Rangnick keeps him on, it would be incredible incompetency.
RB - Dalot + we need to invest in a new RB - Dalot is quite a good RB, deserve chances but needs to learn from another experienced player ahead of him.
CB - Varane, Maguire, Lindelof and Jones with Matic being able slot into the back is adequate enough. We need to cut the squad down to size.
LB - Telles, Shaw - good enough, need to get the fullbacks more involved in attacking phase
CM - I'd be hanging on to Pogba/DVB/Fernandes/Fred. I want McTominay gone sharpish, he is not good enough, but it won't happen due to academy tax but he needs to be shifted.
We need TWO central midfielders - a defensive midfielder with superb competency on ball and a box to box CM/#8 who can help drive the CM forward as well as competency in progression of our play. TWO CMs. Not one, but TWO. I'd be inclined to let DVB go if we end up with 2 CMs.s
Something like -
Pogba------------Tchouameni/Bissouma
-----------------de Jong--------------
FWs - Rashford isn't good enough and we will need a back up #9, someone who can play across the front three to cover. Ronaldo is coming to an end might not even be at the club next season.
Sancho/Greenwood are adequate for the wings but who after them? Rashford? Not good enough. Martial? Gone.
Also, Diallo, Elanga, Mejbri need to start getting game time.
GK - De Gea, Heaton is decent enough - Henderson needs to leave for his own good, cannot be stringing him along like this, it is not fair at all. If Rangnick keeps him on, it would be incredible incompetency.
RB - Dalot + we need to invest in a new RB - Dalot is quite a good RB, deserve chances but needs to learn from another experienced player ahead of him.
CB - Varane, Maguire, Lindelof and Jones with Matic being able slot into the back is adequate enough. We need to cut the squad down to size.
LB - Telles, Shaw - good enough, need to get the fullbacks more involved in attacking phase
CM - I'd be hanging on to Pogba/DVB/Fernandes/Fred. I want McTominay gone sharpish, he is not good enough, but it won't happen due to academy tax but he needs to be shifted.
We need TWO central midfielders - a defensive midfielder with superb competency on ball and a box to box CM/#8 who can help drive the CM forward as well as competency in progression of our play. TWO CMs. Not one, but TWO. I'd be inclined to let DVB go if we end up with 2 CMs.s
Something like -
Pogba------------Tchouameni/Bissouma
-----------------de Jong--------------
FWs - Rashford isn't good enough and we will need a back up #9, someone who can play across the front three to cover. Ronaldo is coming to an end might not even be at the club next season.
Sancho/Greenwood are adequate for the wings but who after them? Rashford? Not good enough. Martial? Gone.
Also, Diallo, Elanga, Mejbri need to start getting game time.
What a circus we are
The disappointing thing is not that mostly fringe / bench / has been players want to leave, but rather that most if not all of them will still be here next season because no one wants to pay a transfer fee or their high wages.
It’s not that straightforward. Most likely for example Ole wanted to keep James rather than Lingard. But what can you do if Lingard would rather not join West Ham and leave for free while James - young and not overpaid - was much easier to sell and there were buyers for him.
The Glazers.
We don't have a cat in hells chance of getting De Jong the way we have treated his best mate Donny.
Also Lingard in his head thinks he should be at one of the world elite clubs.
If any of that was true then why the feck did he insist publicly that Lingard, Henderson, VDB would all get game time then not play them? He was lying to them and himself because he didn't have the bottle to tell the nob to find a new club or spend the next season in the reserves until his contract runs out. There's a load of team's that would have taken Lingard for £10m last summer.
Although the United supporters and some within the hierarchy of the club want the top four spot as the saving grace of the season, many players cannot see past their contracts, minutes, and places for World Cup national sides. I am not sure a Lukaku style apology will restore the support behind the players. The club should do the financially painful thing and clear out the squad.
Because Jesse had a good spell at WHU the club increased his price, instead of just getting rid. It was obvious the change of scenery did him good and him coming back here he might relapse again.