Borden
New Member
Yeah, the whole 'poor little United' thing is getting out of hand on the Caf recently. There are people who say, with complete seriousness, that Mourinho hasn't been backed by the board.
That’s my favorite
Yeah, the whole 'poor little United' thing is getting out of hand on the Caf recently. There are people who say, with complete seriousness, that Mourinho hasn't been backed by the board.
haven't you just contradicted yourself there though? You say that we shouldn't be spending big money on the likes of Griezmann yet that the quality of players we're getting aren't good enough. What exactly do you think we're going to buy with £200m then that will fix all our problem areas?
Right but that was basically my whole point. We can't throw another £200m around next summer without first critiquing our quite clearly dated scouting and transfer system and amending it, or else we're going to end up with the same problems all over again.City have got the likes of Sane and Jesus for a very good price. We ourselves got Martial for a good price. If your scouts are good enough, you can snipe some very good players from other leagues with about 30-50m. It's not just signing super stars all the time. You can buy a very good player that has all the potential to be a super star on his own, just like Sane and Jesus.
Right but that was basically my whole point. We can't throw another £200m around next summer without first critiquing our quite clearly dated scouting and transfer system and amending it, or else we're going to end up with the same problems all over again.
Sorry but despite all the love in for Martial, after his first season he has shown flashes only of being anything like good value yet.Because we're the richest club in the world and everyone knows it. Martial was worth the money when you look at what PSG paid for Neymar and Mbappe.
Lindleof and Lakaku will produce. Im usuay not one to give up on a player but I dont see a future for Mhikhataryan. Use him as a make weight for another signing, him and Mata.
Ours have improved massively too. We couldnt score for our lives under LVG and last season we improved slightly. This season we're scoring loads. Defensively we are solid too, which is a big improvement. Take nothing away from Jose, we've improved under him. Pity we didnt have a Kompany, Silva, Aguero and De Bruyne in our ranks when Jose came in...Jose has been backed well by the board, I don't buy the spending argument as being the biggest reason for City being so much better than us. Our squad still needs some work and Jose will be able to spend a lot of money again in the summer. Biggest difference for me is how much Pep has improved his players, their playing some of the best stuff in their lives.
Dont blame the scouts or the system, the manager carries the full responsibility.Right but that was basically my whole point. We can't throw another £200m around next summer without first critiquing our quite clearly dated scouting and transfer system and amending it, or else we're going to end up with the same problems all over again.
Of course its an excuse, City spent more on an already better squad and are first, we spend the most after them and are second.
Freaky coincidence isn't it?
Difference is City targeted the areas they were weak. FB and wide positions. We kind of half did that with Lukaku and Matic. Lindelof was an unnecessary purchase and we failed to sign a fb and a winger
oh I had no idea you worked for the club. Tell us more inside knowledge?Dont blame the scouts or the system, the manager carries the full responsibility.
I dont share your view. The kid is electric on the ball. Hes not consistent but he definitely has talent. In fairness what 22 year old is consistent?Sorry but despite all the love in for Martial, after his first season he has shown flashes only of being anything like good value yet.
I think Matic and Ibra were the right signings given the state of the squad. Matic isnt long term and neither is Ibra. Stop gap signings, thats all. Fellaini was a Moyes signing wasnt he? Plus, he is only utilised to cover deficincies. A couple more tramsfer windows are required to get this squad completed and balanced. Its much better now than it has been for about 5 years though, so Im personally happy enough and can see the progression and future.
@User 72192
But City had a better squad though, we've seem to have overtaken every other side bar a City squad who had a head start plus spent more money than us.
If 2 clubs spend well then what can you do?
Look at Citys attack, all where there pre Pep and even Jesus joined 5 months in, and nobody can argue about the talent they had since this forum did nothing but swoon over them for a few seasons now.
Look at what Jose had to deal with, he joins when we had a Morgan / Bastian midfield with Rooney up top. Not only that but a right wing and fullback position that had to wait until more pressing areas were covered.
Jose said himself he would need 3 summer windows for this to be his team. Its his own words yet fans continually judge his transfers as if it were our final form.
He definitely has talent but he is very inconsistent. My point is at this stage he is not value for money as you suggest.I dont share your view. The kid is electric on the ball. Hes not consistent but he definitely has talent. In fairness what 22 year old is consistent?
I dont share your view. The kid is electric on the ball. Hes not consistent but he definitely has talent. In fairness what 22 year old is consistent?
Do you think Jose doesn't call the shots?oh I had no idea you worked for the club. Tell us more inside knowledge?
No I got your point. You missed mine. Matic and Ibra are not long term solutions. They are quick fixes until we can get in the type of player required. As for Pep bringing in attacking talent, Jesus, Mane and Sterling. Walker and the keeper. Other than that they were solid as far as a spine of a team is concerned. They had Kompany, Silva, De Bruyne and Aguero. We didnt have that, so thats task 1 for Jose. We're still playing catch up. Matic and Ibra are stop gaps until we can find long term solutions to those positions.You completely missed my point mate. Its not about how good or bad the signings are.
When i mentioned matic, ibra, lukaku, fella i didn't mean that they are not good or they performing bad. As far as their job is concerned they are trying everything their manager wants them to do. Im not complaining about the players.
Problem with united at the moment is not like they are really bad or like they are struggling like everton. They are doing good second and all, fans are moaning about the way united are playing specially compared to city. And thats what i was trying to say. city irrespective of their money would always buy better players who are more creative and skillful as their manager wants to play in a certain way. Your manager prefers big physical players and there is no chance that with his pragmatic style and players like matic, fellaini united would ever approach the game like city do.
Back to your point again who is to blame for signing players like ibra, matic ? Yes fellaini is moyes's signing but mourinho prefers him over players like mata, makhtariyan. The point is the root cause of these signings is the manager and his pragmatic style of football. Imagine mourinho being a attacking manager would he make those signings?
of course he calls the shots, but who the hell do you think is giving him the player reports and information for him to do so? You think he's off watching all these players himself and going "I want him" to the board or what? Maybe we should fire our scouts, they seem pointless if Jose's doing all their work for them!Do you think Jose doesn't call the shots?
This really. Very good fullbacks can completely transform a team in the modern game.Need to sign top full backs.
For the bold part, unfortunately yes.That's the thing though. We thought we had with Shaw and Darmian. We thought we'd signed the #10's we needed with Mata, and then Mkhi. We thought we'd signed the winger we needed with Di Maria. We thought we'd signed the midfielder's we needed with Herrera, Fellaini, Basti, Scheniderlinn, etc. etc. (at least we finally got Pogba and Matic there in the end).
Do we just continue to keep spending and spending in the hope that eventually we get the players we need in these positions or what?
Those players were seen to be in a different class to Martial when bought by PSG. We bought Lukaku for 75 when Chelsea got Morata for 58. Take Lindelof, completely unknown with no other big club realy sniffing around and we parted ways with 30 million. You can be the richest club around and still not act desperate in the market. We bought a bench player from Chelsea for £37 million ffs. We completely ignore the laws of supply and demand on the negotiation table.Because we're the richest club in the world and everyone knows it. Martial was worth the money when you look at what PSG paid for Neymar and Mbappe.
Lindleof and Lakaku will produce. Im usuay not one to give up on a player but I dont see a future for Mhikhataryan. Use him as a make weight for another signing, him and Mata.
Give over... He is dynamite, if you cant see that then theres something wrong. Go look at his numbers for this season and compare then to someone at his age you think he should be as good as.He definitely has talent but he is very inconsistent. My point is at this stage he is not value for money as you suggest.
That might change in the future...
We aren't doing too badly at all,35 points from 16 games is a good return.If we keep picking up points at this rate,we"ll end up with 85 points this season,for the record,we ended up with 69 last season and 66 the season before.So if we finish 2nd,and if we pick up 16 points more than last season,is that not progress?City are abnormally good right now,they"ve dropped just 2 points so far and that's just ridiculous.If they keep playing like this,then we"ll have to just accept the fact that they"ve been extraordinary.A lot of people are using money as the reason why City are flying high and we are not. It’s true City’s squad cost £775M combined which is the most expensive. But ours cost £712M which is only behind City and PSG. We have a more expensive squad than Real Madrid for god sake.
To top it off, our wage bill is 3rd in the world, only behind PSG and Barca.
We must have the lowest quality and return on investment out of all top clubs. I don’t think we can use money is an excuse at all for our shortcomings. If anything I feel we lack direction as a football club. It is being run like a business more than a football club. After SAF, we have no real football identity, no long term plan as a club. The people at the top of the club are more focus on financial success than anything, for them football is just a mean for them to grow the business not the other way around.
A lot of people are using money as the reason why City are flying high and we are not. It’s true City’s squad cost £775M combined which is the most expensive. But ours cost £712M which is only behind City and PSG. We have a more expensive squad than Real Madrid for god sake.
To top it off, our wage bill is 3rd in the world, only behind PSG and Barca.
We must have the lowest quality and return on investment out of all top clubs. I don’t think we can use money is an excuse at all for our shortcomings. If anything I feel we lack direction as a football club. It is being run like a business more than a football club. After SAF, we have no real football identity, no long term plan as a club. The people at the top of the club are more focus on financial success than anything, for them football is just a mean for them to grow the business not the other way around.
A bench player? So you think Matic wouldnt play there this season? Being benched isnt always about form. Arent Luiz and Costa benched there too at the minute?Those players were seen to be in a different class to Martial when bought by PSG. We bought Lukaku for 75 when Chelsea got Morata for 58. Take Lindelof, completely unknown with no other big club realy sniffing around and we parted ways with 30 million. You can be the richest club around and still not act desperate in the market. We bought a bench player from Chelsea for £37 million ffs. We completely ignore the laws of supply and demand on the negotiation table.
I said in another thread, think about that same line up against City but with Marcelo and Carvajal.This really. Very good fullbacks can completely transform a team in the modern game.
This really. Very good fullbacks can completely transform a team in the modern game.
I said in another thread, think about that same line up against City but with Marcelo and Carvajal.
Completely different game.
Is hard to defend against a team with top full backs that can play parts of the game as wide midfielders and wingers.
Ours have improved massively too. We couldnt score for our lives under LVG and last season we improved slightly. This season we're scoring loads. Defensively we are solid too, which is a big improvement. Take nothing away from Jose, we've improved under him. Pity we didnt have a Kompany, Silva, Aguero and De Bruyne in our ranks when Jose came in...
And yet we still have 35 points from 16 games....If we keep going like this we"ll end up with 85 points this season.Thats 16 points more than last season,that's excellent progress in my view.Citys progress has been extraordinary,our progress has been excellent...We can't knock Jose down if we finish 2nd with 16-18 points more than last season...It would be our best league campaign since SAF left by a mile....Anyone who uses money as an excuse needs to have a word with themselves. City have simply bought better than us. A lot of our problems in the transfer market boil down to poor scouting from our staff. You just wonder what alot of our scouts actually do as we continue to target and sign the wrong players.
No I got your point. You missed mine. Matic and Ibra are not long term solutions. They are quick fixes until we can get in the type of player required. As for Pep bringing in attacking talent, Jesus, Mane and Sterling. Walker and the keeper. Other than that they were solid as far as a spine of a team is concerned. They had Kompany, Silva, De Bruyne and Aguero. We didnt have that, so thats task 1 for Jose. We're still playing catch up. Matic and Ibra are stop gaps until we can find long term solutions to those positions.
That's Mata not Matic.A bench player? So you think Matic wouldnt play there this season? Being benched isnt always about form. Arent Luiz and Costa benched there too at the minute?
You still missed it. You are failing to understand that with mourinho and his brand of football you are never going to catch city. The two teams are on completely different paths.
Back to your comment, type of player required? Your mean mourinho's type of player? The one that may not provide anything going forward but would fit in the defensive style? You really think changing players would really solve your problem of boring pragmatic football? You think with improve players mourinho wont park the bus?
So, my point is maybe Jose should be added to your list of scouts and systems at fault.of course he calls the shots, but who the hell do you think is giving him the player reports and information for him to do so? You think he's off watching all these players himself and going "I want him" to the board or what? Maybe we should fire our scouts, they seem pointless if Jose's doing all their work for them!