It has been a problem all season. We do great against teams with ambition but have no answer when teams sit in and break. Is this an inherent problem going forward for title ambitions or do we just need to buy a higher grade of player to create more and take more chances?
Van Gaal has no answer for British Pragmatism
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
You are going to be called kneejerk for saying that mate.
We need a more solid midfield backbone. And we need players who are a little quicker and have better control of the ball.
We need to play...more like Arsenal.
We need to play...more like Arsenal.
Our players aren't taking their chances. Young, the second coming of Christ if the Caf' had you believe, could have and should have scored in the opening twenty minutes. Typically, he didn't.
We've been presented with opening both last week and this week and every single player has wasted them.
We've been presented with opening both last week and this week and every single player has wasted them.
Agreed. I don't think he knows how to handle it. All our play is in front of a defense. Sideways over and over.
Most of our best chances were long range efforts.
Most of our best chances were long range efforts.
I don't see why. We have struggled against cynical British style tactics all season. The blueprint to nullify Van Gaal's philosophy is outlined and being used against us time and time again. I am asking if it is indeed the philosophy or just that we are not making or taking enough chances due to player quality.
Not enough intensity in our play. The style of football we play doesn't suit the Premier League. It's piss poor
Our finishing in front of goal is so poor.
We're not incisive or decisive enough in the final third.
We're not incisive or decisive enough in the final third.
We don't actually create that many chances a lot of the time. Today was different as we did but how many were clear cut?
Not many, only RVP showed real intent to shoot the ball. I don't even what the feck the others were doing.
We can't pass the ball well enough to open teams up and we don't have players with pace or skill to beat players, consequently we are slow, predictable and just go backwards or sideways. First goal is crucial because if we don't get it we have real problems.
this threadwe would beat them easily if we didn't play three strikers in midfield and use our substitutions well. Shocking managing, can't believe what I've just seen..
What should we have done then, put in 82 crosses? Today was just one of those games, very surreal. Still can't believe some of the things I've seen.
This season is crazy will probably end up scoring 4 against Arsenal but, also fail to score against Crystal Palace and Hull.
Our play is phenomenal. Our finesse is a disaster.
Just bad squad depth and our strikers going to piss this season really, not much we can do when Rooney, Falcao, RVP and Di Maria regress is there? We have a good first XI when fully fit but right now it's all fallen apart. Need some pace in behind.
What in god's name was "phenomenal" about our play today?
Time & time again RVP make the run but apart from Mata no one else could deliver the pass & Mata is playing on the wrong side of the field
It's getting tiresome watching us start games slow in these so called lesser games, keeping possession, getting nervy as time goes by because we've only realised possession doesn't come with goals, going down to the only chance of the game for the opposition before finally playing with a bit of pace and getting a few chances in.
For feck's sakes. Come of out the blocks quicker before the opponents can settle into a battle of attrition, at least!
For feck's sakes. Come of out the blocks quicker before the opponents can settle into a battle of attrition, at least!
This thread is spot on and I've been thinking it for a long time. For me 4th or not we need a new manager in the summer.
Our final ball/crossing is very bad but our finishing has been wank the last few games. It's not like we haven't created chances, today we missed a pen and countless other great chances, against Chelsea it's always tough and we created a few that we missed, the worst was Everton though. Everton we just played badly overall, today we passed it around well as always, just missed so many chances and didn't have the slice of luck.
How about the fact that we gave away 0 chances? Dominated the game with 83% possesion? Created a bunch of opportunities? Played as a collective recapturing the ball instantly?
We played like any top team with this style. Barca, bayern would have been in the same situation.
What we lacked is the finesse to finish chances. Which bayern and barca have the players for.
Is defending deep and hoping to score on the break a British thing?
I always thought hoofing long balls up to a lump in the box and hoping to score from the knock-downs was the traditional "British" style.
I always thought hoofing long balls up to a lump in the box and hoping to score from the knock-downs was the traditional "British" style.
I'd agree with that.
I'm still optimistic. Before this slump we were playing lovely stuff. Van Gaal is a good enough manager to figure things out. Disappointed about recent results but genuinely excited for next season.
Actually he seem to suffer on something that its not British at all. Have you ever heard of Catenacchio?
We're big game-raising cnuts. That's what we are.
I think playing whatever s**thouse regressive tactics you can to win a game is British style unfortunately. Personally I find the mentality a problem in a broader sense for English football but that is another discussion.
I should have phrased the title as a question, however, I am wondering if we just need more world class players like Real, Bayern and Barca.
It's neither a British thing nor a van Gaal thing. Just over a month ago Bayern were beaten 2-0 by Gladbach despite having almost 70% possession. It happens. Playing against a very well drilled team with 10 men behind the ball and without some of your key creative players in form, it'll always be a struggle. Our problem is our lack of penetrative passing but that's not van Gaal's fault, it's a limitation in the squad. Our most creative passer in midfield was van Persie today for christ's sake. He's not telling his team to pass it sideways all the time, it's just people lacking the vision and conviction to do so - that's why Carrick's so important.
And obviously that's why we need someone else. Having someone like Bale in the team wouldn't change that.
We've been consistently shit against every team who seem to be happy with 1 point against us. It's a huge problem. Look at the games we've dropped points in this season and it's largely the worst teams in the league.
Everton, Burnley, Leicester, West Brom x2, Sunderland, Aston, Villa, Swansea x2, West Ham... All bottom half or very close to it.
It's been going on since the very first round of the league, so it's hardly knee-jerk.
Everton, Burnley, Leicester, West Brom x2, Sunderland, Aston, Villa, Swansea x2, West Ham... All bottom half or very close to it.
It's been going on since the very first round of the league, so it's hardly knee-jerk.
It’s all new to him and it’s something that he has to learn very fast. However, today is not one of those days, we could easily have won by five or six. Credit to WBA.
Im quite amazed at how such an experienced manager has made so many incredibly novice mistakes in his first year.
Right from the start with his absolutely diabolical 5-3-2 formation which cost us 2-3 months of our early season. It took him much too long to realize it was never going to work in the Prem.
Then now this. Its great that we played a few good matches using a 4-3-3/4-1-4-1, but he needs to realize that we've got to stop being so rigid and actually play our best players in their preferred positions. At the end of the day, as bad as ADM was today, we need to start him because the likes of Fellaini and Young as our first choices will never win us the league. They are great squad players but not the type of players that win you titles.
Right from the start with his absolutely diabolical 5-3-2 formation which cost us 2-3 months of our early season. It took him much too long to realize it was never going to work in the Prem.
Then now this. Its great that we played a few good matches using a 4-3-3/4-1-4-1, but he needs to realize that we've got to stop being so rigid and actually play our best players in their preferred positions. At the end of the day, as bad as ADM was today, we need to start him because the likes of Fellaini and Young as our first choices will never win us the league. They are great squad players but not the type of players that win you titles.
The two best possession teams I've seen were Barcelona and Bayern. How many of our midfielders would have got into those teams? none. How many attackers? none.
The simple reality is that if we want to play dominant, possession football we need a better quality of player. We need a pacy, consistent goal-scorer and talisman and we need a top-tier playmaker.
Trying to play eye of the needle stuff with Fellaini, Valencia and Young as attacking players isn't going to work consistently really.
The simple reality is that if we want to play dominant, possession football we need a better quality of player. We need a pacy, consistent goal-scorer and talisman and we need a top-tier playmaker.
Trying to play eye of the needle stuff with Fellaini, Valencia and Young as attacking players isn't going to work consistently really.
Teams in England do not play Catenaccio. For it to be Catenaccio there needs to be a sweeper.
Packing the bus is not exclusive to British football..
It may not be exactly the same system but the mentality is pretty much the same.
What we need is a Striker who can play, but still strong, heading and just finishes evrrything.
What we need is 2012 mario gomez.
What we need is 2012 mario gomez.
Well, I have heard people say that they prefer us to dominate games and lose, than play like Chelsea and win. Wins are not important. You don't play just to win. Style is more important than wins. Etc etc etc ... 
He has an answer - to throw Fellaini up top with an aim to start a 'Finding Fellaini' contest, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The Moyes project is finally coming to fruition.
I tend to agree with your broader point but I disagree that Bale wouldn't make a difference. He might not be the most important ingredient at this point but that level of player always makes a difference. I mean, how many times did Valencia or Mata put something effective into the box today? Bale would cause far more problems cutting in on the right wing. Or if we had a better defender than McNair today, great on the ball but asked to do one piece of proper defending and he did something stupid with dire consequences.
I agree with this I think. For this style you need to be able to play stubborn teams off the park.
I agree with you on ADM. We really need to play him into form. Frustrating today but he is rusty, what can we expect? Someone of his quality needs to be indulged to an extent, especially considering the other players in our team.
It is difficult though as Young is very good on the wing and very rarely gives the ball away, It is just his final delivery that is missing. Today I actually would have preferred Young at left back and ADM on the left wing.