If that can be achieved without diluting the experience for match going fans like it currently does then I'm all for it. I don't have much faith in that, however.
VAR - Not the hero we want, the one we need
- Thread starter Pavl3n
- Start date
If that can be achieved without diluting the experience for match going fans like it currently does then I'm all for it. I don't have much faith in that, however.
I have more faith than you. Many things can be done to fix it (such as introduce challenges and give the ref a mic). We can't just scrap it without giving it a proper chance.
This is the thing, challenges. Someone's just punched the ball in the net and the team who's on the receiving end used up their last challenge when they were unsuccessful asking for a penalty incident to be awarded after review.
"Yay! It's a shit decision, but at least it's one that took longer than usual!"
Woohoo?
You're turning the game into something it isn't. Ref mics. It'll take as long as it takes for guy to watch a video clip and give feedback. Impossible to shorten or hone that into anything that takes less time.
Absolute horrible technology. The charm of football is ruined. I watched this liverpool match with my brother. None of us celebrated any of the goal before after 5 minutes in fear of VAR.
Please stop this nonsense right in its track. Yes, the sport may have human errors, but it is what makes football the biggest sport in the world. The anger at refs, the discussion of dubious decisions, its beautiful in its own unique way. Dont take it away from us and make this another American sport.
Liverpool - WBA was the first game i watched live, and this is the moment i realized if VAR were to implemented broadely, im completely done. Finished, moving on with my life. Simple as that.
Please stop this nonsense right in its track. Yes, the sport may have human errors, but it is what makes football the biggest sport in the world. The anger at refs, the discussion of dubious decisions, its beautiful in its own unique way. Dont take it away from us and make this another American sport.
Liverpool - WBA was the first game i watched live, and this is the moment i realized if VAR were to implemented broadely, im completely done. Finished, moving on with my life. Simple as that.
So do I take that to mean football should never change from the current position? Was introducing offside 'turning the game into something it isn't'? Was introducing penalty shootouts 'turning the game into something it isn't'?
You can't take these decisions in isolation. On the whole, it will get a lot more decisions correct than currently, but not every single one - thats impossible.
Not many people have a problem with accuracy. It's the emotion-killing delays that seem to be the main point of contention.
You can't justify every change with 'other changes worked', or feck knows where we'd be. I really struggle with understanding any football fan that things a world where goals are no longer celebrated with cheers but a pensive wait, is worth the trade off because...'....Thierry Henry vs Ireland!...'
I'm sorry, we're just wired differently. I wouldn't trade the joy of a last minute United winner with knowing that in 8 months time we might correctly have a goal against us when we play Burnley chalked off for offisde thanks to VAR.
This WBA Liverpool game has been one of the most enjoyable and dramatic games this season, partly because of VAR.
I expect you don't support either of these two teams. Opinions maybe different if they go against your team.
I'm glad those that run the game aren't as childish as those in this thread.
Feck me, you know what's really embarassing? Getting so worked up about a bit of assistive technology.
Feck me, you know what's really embarassing? Getting so worked up about a bit of assistive technology.
I support Manchester United. I like to think of myself as being pretty unbiased though. I thought all the post-VAR decisions were correct.
I'm glad those that run the game aren't as childish as those in this thread.
Feck me, you know what's really embarassing? Getting so worked up about a bit of assistive technology.
I'd be more embarrassed by the fact I found disagreement over a rule change in football embarrassing, personally.
I'm glad those that run the game aren't as childish as those in this thread.
Feck me, you know what's really embarassing? Getting so worked up about a bit of assistive technology.
I think the fact that people want to get away with cheating or bad decisions that benefit them but cry when it goes against them are a special type. I have never known any other walk of life where the giving of the right decision is so unwanted. Even if was done quicker (which it will be because the system is fine it's just the execution by idiots who for some reason need 4 minutes to make a decision where everyone else who saw the replay in the first few seconds could see what happened.
People saying they wouldn't celebrate a goal in case VAR gets called in are chatting nonsense. It's no different to when a goal is ruled offside, we all celebrate, then notice the flag and get disappointed.
We don't see the goal, then watch the linesman and wait a few seconds to check if he is going to raise the flag... Then celebrate.
Yes this version of VAR isn't perfect, but it should improve. What it needs, is someone watching the match in real time on a TV, who will have a good idea if something is contentious, and can watch a replay without even being asked by the ref. If he sees something he can just speak into the refs ear and tell him. Like this it would take no longer than a player celebrating, or bemoaning.
We don't see the goal, then watch the linesman and wait a few seconds to check if he is going to raise the flag... Then celebrate.
Yes this version of VAR isn't perfect, but it should improve. What it needs, is someone watching the match in real time on a TV, who will have a good idea if something is contentious, and can watch a replay without even being asked by the ref. If he sees something he can just speak into the refs ear and tell him. Like this it would take no longer than a player celebrating, or bemoaning.
You've posted 70+ times in this thread (just checked because you've been whinging all match and I wondered if you've been doing it for a while).
You're looking a bit obsessed with this issue.
Jesus Christ what the hell is up with people here up in arms and crying against technology?
We aren’t Neanderthals, you know. This whole humanity thing has progressed quite a bit and continues to and football shouldn’t be an exception so don’t be so naive. And don’t want to hear that stupid fecking “it’s ruining the beautiful game” excuse like it’s perfect or something and will be till the end of time. Give me a break. I’m sure those spray canisters refs use now to mark free kicks has “ruined the beautiful game” too am I right?
...NFL famously has coaches challenge AKA video replay. NHL+MLB just recently adopted coaches challenge AKA video replay these past 2 years and it’s worked out tremendously for both sports. Yes initially there was a scare for whatever reason (people just afraid of change and bs excuses like “it’ll ruin the beautiful game” narrative) but it’s worked out very beneficially. Why would you not want the option of reviewing something which you might be unsure of that was called on the ice/field and can wrongly determine the outcome of a game? If so, you’re saying you wouldn’t have challenged the Lampard no-goal against Germany in the WC if you had the chance to? Exactly, you most definitely would have and if you say otherwise I’m sorry but you may as well be a Neanderthal. Like I said, we have the technology so go utilize it and don’t be so ignorant. I don’t see why football shouldn’t adopt a coaches challenge as well. Give each team 1 challenge per game to review a possibly offside goal or goal that was allowed which didn’t cross the line (or vice versa) or maybe even an unjust foul which leads to a penalty. If you get the call correct, you’re rewarded with another challenge for another possible scenario later on in the game. If not, you lose it and that’s that but hey at least it’s cleared up. It’ll literally take 2-3 minutes at most and for the people that’ll cry it ruins momentum or whatever, just imagine it as a player getting treated or something in that time.
I don’t know how the current VAR system thing works but above is what I’d propose and believe would be the most efficient method. Just leave it in the managers/teams hands to use at their own disposal, that way it’s out of the refs hands to decide when or when not to use it getting rid of any controversy there. And on the contrary, I do get this is sport and a huge part of sport is the human element to it / the human errors. I don’t believe every single little thing should be reviewed because that’d take away from the human element and you may as well have no officials on the pitch at that point. However, it makes logical sense to be able to review or challenge an unjust call which can wrongly determine the outcome of a game which happens more often than it should. Like I said, we’re humans, we progress, other mainstream sports have and there’s no reason why football shouldn’t.
/end rant.
We aren’t Neanderthals, you know. This whole humanity thing has progressed quite a bit and continues to and football shouldn’t be an exception so don’t be so naive. And don’t want to hear that stupid fecking “it’s ruining the beautiful game” excuse like it’s perfect or something and will be till the end of time. Give me a break. I’m sure those spray canisters refs use now to mark free kicks has “ruined the beautiful game” too am I right?
...NFL famously has coaches challenge AKA video replay. NHL+MLB just recently adopted coaches challenge AKA video replay these past 2 years and it’s worked out tremendously for both sports. Yes initially there was a scare for whatever reason (people just afraid of change and bs excuses like “it’ll ruin the beautiful game” narrative) but it’s worked out very beneficially. Why would you not want the option of reviewing something which you might be unsure of that was called on the ice/field and can wrongly determine the outcome of a game? If so, you’re saying you wouldn’t have challenged the Lampard no-goal against Germany in the WC if you had the chance to? Exactly, you most definitely would have and if you say otherwise I’m sorry but you may as well be a Neanderthal. Like I said, we have the technology so go utilize it and don’t be so ignorant. I don’t see why football shouldn’t adopt a coaches challenge as well. Give each team 1 challenge per game to review a possibly offside goal or goal that was allowed which didn’t cross the line (or vice versa) or maybe even an unjust foul which leads to a penalty. If you get the call correct, you’re rewarded with another challenge for another possible scenario later on in the game. If not, you lose it and that’s that but hey at least it’s cleared up. It’ll literally take 2-3 minutes at most and for the people that’ll cry it ruins momentum or whatever, just imagine it as a player getting treated or something in that time.
I don’t know how the current VAR system thing works but above is what I’d propose and believe would be the most efficient method. Just leave it in the managers/teams hands to use at their own disposal, that way it’s out of the refs hands to decide when or when not to use it getting rid of any controversy there. And on the contrary, I do get this is sport and a huge part of sport is the human element to it / the human errors. I don’t believe every single little thing should be reviewed because that’d take away from the human element and you may as well have no officials on the pitch at that point. However, it makes logical sense to be able to review or challenge an unjust call which can wrongly determine the outcome of a game which happens more often than it should. Like I said, we’re humans, we progress, other mainstream sports have and there’s no reason why football shouldn’t.
/end rant.
So when the ball flies in the net you're happy for your reaction to go from:
"feck YES!!" to
"Okay, this is looking good. Now let's see if the referee is talking with the VAR. Oh he is. Right. Well, I'll keep my eye on him to see what's happening. I think...yeah his fingers are still near his ears, this indicates they're still talking. I wonder if it'll rain before I get home? Hope not I've not got my jacket. I must remember to pick up some milk on the way too. Oh...wait...he's made the TV signal and......oh it's given! That's good. Oh feck, I don't have enough change for the milk. Is there a cash point on the way?"
This is the point that I think those of us who dislike this change have as the ultimate ticking point. Swapping the first reality with the second, even if it ensures that the decision is accurate, really isn't a change we'd be prepared to make for the sake of that accuracy. I don't want a United goal to signal that I've got 20-70 seconds to think about what I'm having for dinner that night before I can celebrate it. Especially given that the pause and delay is going to be a kick in the bollocks to any feeling of post-goal elation you will experience.
Indeed. I should use this thread for what it's really for which is to debate whether Brexit will have as negative an impact on our exports as certain trading experts have implied in an article published in the Financial Times in October 2016
As the referees get more experienced with the system, it will be used less. Most goals won't need VAR to be used. We had 5 goals in this match, only 1 in which VAR was used.
Maybe offside goals should be VAR'ed, but little else. Fecks up the game.
feck the feelings I say. I'd rather watch a fairer game than one decided by a contentious decision.
Have fun fecking off then.
In ten years time we'll look back and wonder how we ever lived without it, it's like all technology really. The transitional period will be bad though.
Obvious division between people who understand how this'll kill the emotion of the game and the eruption of ecstasy when your team score and people who think being a fan is merely dispassionately observing passages of play that are officiated accurately.
"Where did you watch the 1999 European Cup Final?"
I didn't Clive, I was told by a friend what the result was and he assured me both our goals stood correctly, so I feel that I got as much out of this as anyone who was there going apeshit in the final 3 minutes.
"Where did you watch the 1999 European Cup Final?"
I didn't Clive, I was told by a friend what the result was and he assured me both our goals stood correctly, so I feel that I got as much out of this as anyone who was there going apeshit in the final 3 minutes.
VAR has its place in football whether fans like it or not.
My issues with it. If the ref feels a VAR decision should be made they should stop the clock. Then this whole nonsense with how long it’s take to make the wrong decision will stop.
Secondly imo subjective decision like dives in the box should still the refs decision. The only VAR should destiguish is offside and is red cards are red
My issues with it. If the ref feels a VAR decision should be made they should stop the clock. Then this whole nonsense with how long it’s take to make the wrong decision will stop.
Secondly imo subjective decision like dives in the box should still the refs decision. The only VAR should destiguish is offside and is red cards are red
Hysteria over this is being overblown massively.
The correct system would be a guy watching the game on a tv screen and when the ref makes a bad blunder like an obviously incorrect penalty call, red card, disallowed goal etc he tells him.
Leave as much as possible to the ref on the field. It should just be there to mitigate the occasional absurd and game changing decision.
Leave as much as possible to the ref on the field. It should just be there to mitigate the occasional absurd and game changing decision.
VAR has its place in football whether fans like it or not.
My issues with it. If the ref feels a VAR decision should be made they should stop the clock. Then this whole nonsense with how long it’s take to make the wrong decision will stop.
Secondly imo subjective decision like dives in the box should still the refs decision. The only VAR should destiguish is offside and is red cards are red
My issues with it. If the ref feels a VAR decision should be made they should stop the clock. Then this whole nonsense with how long it’s take to make the wrong decision will stop.
Secondly imo subjective decision like dives in the box should still the refs decision. The only VAR should destiguish is offside and is red cards are red
Pardew just blamed VAR for the hamstring injuries they picked up tonight
To be fair, the decisions do need to be a lot quicker.
To be fair, the decisions do need to be a lot quicker.
Takes something away from the game imo. Incorrect decisions etc. add to the drama and emotion of the game.
No, you’re just deluded.
Clearly you don’t watch American football (NFL) or the NHL or MLB or NBA which all has video review. If anything, reviews add another element to the emotion side of the game and makes it more entertaining. Oh, you momentarily cheered an unjust goal which the other team wants to challenge? Poor you! Ffs stop pretending like you cheered it on for a lifetime, you’ll literally find out moments after the play if it’s going to be reviewed or not. Quit being so naive.
If they do start showing the process on big screens then the VAR ref becomes reduntant. The ref may as well chat wuth the tv producer.
That's a bit of a silly analogy. Obviously I can understand the complaints about the emotional aspect but we should be doing all we can to ensure decisions are correct...if we're sticking with your 1999 final point, imagine if we'd had a goal wrongly disallowed which cost us that final? We'd rightfully be in uproar even now.
Like everything the technology will improve as it's phased in.
totally agree it should only be for fact based decisions, penalties and to a lesser extend red cards are subjective
There will still be incorrect decisions...
He just chats complete hyperbolic rhetoric the whole time coming up with completely ridiculous scenarios and acts like every goal is like that.
Pardew just blamed VAR for the hamstring injuries they picked up tonight
To be fair, the decisions do need to be a lot quicker.
This seems a common complaint but how can you make them quicker? Fundamentally what happens is an incident happens in a game, a man watches it from a certain number of angles, then feeds back what he sees. Everyone seems to agree on the need for it to be quicker but I can't yet imagine a technology will exist in our lifetimes that allows a man to watch footage on a screen faster than the time it takes now for a man to watch footage on a screen. That's fundamentally what it is. How is it possible to speed that up?
...likewise reviews add its own drama and human element. Silly excuse for anyone against challenges.
Please no more !
It is it's own kind of drama, yes. But I prefer the "OMG! This is amazing! 92nd minute winner!" sort of drama to the pensive wait for the decision to come back from the VAR, pondering whether I've time to nip out for a piss, kind of drama.
Well take the penalty, an incident occurred, a man watched it from a number of angles and fed back on what he saw, then another man watched it on another screen, from one angle and gave a penalty. The whole thing took 3 minutes.
That can obviously be done quicker.