Yeah but the scary thing is Ole cannot see how terrible their partnership is despite how often it lets him down, Victor knew he would come straight back into the team and clearly feels zero pressure from Bailly for his place which is a joke
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 45
- Clean sheets
- 17
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 4
- Status
I didn’t miss him when he was out injured
he didn’t know whether to track Mahrez or hold his position so Gundogen doesn’t stroll in unmarked in the 1st half
he didn’t know whether to track Mahrez or hold his position so Gundogen doesn’t stroll in unmarked in the 1st half
The thing with the partnership is that it has taken us to the top of PL, maybe that’s why Ole has faith in them. We have conceded few goals in open play with them as pair, the problem is when the whole team defends at setpieces. There seems to be poor organisation and I don’t think Bailly is a solution to that.
It could be that Ole is going to alternate between Lindelof and Bailly. Lindelof has his back problems and can probably not play every game as last season, and Bailly has never been able to stay fit before and shouldn’t play too much. I definitely believe Bailly will play against Watford this weekend. It’s also a big risk that Maguire will face a fifth yellow soon with suspension, maybe already against Burnley, and then we will play Bailly and Lindelof together.
Because that's his style, can't do wrong when you aren't doing anything in the first place.
We are conceding 1.5 goals per game. Even without the Spurs game it's over a goal a game.
This is my biggest gripe with him. He holds his position and stays in line, he doesn't do anything to effect the game, he just tries to do his job and fair enough tonight he did that well enough in the sense of clearing the ball - but when it comes to counter attacks or the ball played around in front of the back 4 he just doesn't do enough for me.
Attackers must enjoy playing against him because he just lets you get on with it and waits for your mistake rather than forcing you into losing the ball.
Bailly needs to be managed due to his injury record. It’s unrealistic to expect him to play 3 games in a row in quick succession.
In regards to Lindelof he just looks like he doesn’t enjoy defending. Not imposing at all I look at him and Maguire and they both have a “feel sorry” for us expression all game and whenever they concede. Have we ever seen Maguire berate anyone after a mess up at the back?
the way Linda dangled that leg half-arsed to 'clear' the ball 
We are finally fighting for the PL title. To further improve, we must strengthen the defence and then we must know how we concede goals. If we look at the two CB pairs we have been playing with:
Bailly/Maguire
9 goals conceded/4 games = 2.25/game
6 goals scored/ 4 games = 1.5 /game
On top of my head 2 of the goals conceded have been from quickly taken freekicks, the rest are from open play. Could be wrong however.
Lindelof/Maguire
15 goals conceded/12 games = 1.25/game
27 goals scored/12 games = 2.25 /game
Of the 15 goals conceded it was claimed in another thread that 9 came from corners, then there might have been other setpieces as well.
But in open play max 6 goals conceded /12 games =0.5 goal /game with Lindelof/Maguire. While we've been scoring 2.25 goals /game with this CB pair (actually no team in PL score more goals/match than this). For me it is hard to not draw the conclusion that setpieces, and especially corners are the problem. Not open play.
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That’s racist.
If hes injured dont play him. Doesnt do anyone any favours to explain away any performance with "yeah but hes injured" as if he is always great and never poor when fit. Let him get 100% fit and do his best and judge him on that with no excuses
Perhaps it would help to have a CB who likes to attack the ball in the air and not stand there and do nothing. Proactive defending is key here. Lindelof should only play to rest Bailly and until we upgrade him with another better player. Not sure why Ole stopped trusting Tuanzebe even though he´s also made from glass, so it´s understandable if that´s the case but if learning by making mistakes is the way, then Lindelof´s path to the first team is a great example of that. He´s a horrow show for 2 yeasons until this year when he´s okay, but again he´s not a player who you´ll see seeking a challenge before the danger comes and that´s the biggest issue, even in his games hwne he doesn´t put foot wrong, he should be doing better.
We´ve seen that with Bailly and he has played as much football as me in the last couple of years and what a difference it is when you have a proactive CB who likes to defend. For me it´s so frustrating to see a top team like United struggle in that department
He wasn't bad, but that's about what we will get with him.
Weve seen enough to suggest he won't ever be a dominant centre back
Weve seen enough to suggest he won't ever be a dominant centre back
Bailly would've cleared that.
I'd like to see Lindeloff in a CDM position, cant be any worse that Mctom and his long range passing is actually better.
I'd like to see Lindeloff in a CDM position, cant be any worse that Mctom and his long range passing is actually better.
And it's infuriating because the few times he actually makes effort to do some defending, he's proven to be quite a capable one from some of the earlier games this season.
A player shouldn't be consistently started when his only attribute is staying fit for games!
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We aren't winning anything with Maguire and Lindelof in the starting 11 every single week
Nah he would get slaughtered here if he did tbh. Haters gonna hate regardless. Just wait until Bailly makes a error and head over to his thread.
Vic is a good squad player and usable against the right opponent. But he should not be a starter.
Bailly is unfortunately worse in the air. To be honest, we haven’t really seen what difference Bailly or a “proactive CB who likes to defend” can make. At least not in terms of result, maybe gut feeling. We have so far conceded more and scored less with Bailly.
Then I suggest to take a lecture in statistics, since you have a very small sample and if you´re countign one off game against Tottneham then *facepalm*. Bailly is more proactive player and recent games showed that, he´s much better in pretty much everything than Lindelof. And I am not saying he´s wonderful in the air but he´s certainly better than Victor and definitely stronger better tackler on the ground, likes to anticipate situations reading the game quickly which put us on the front foot unlike Lindelof who backs of too many times. I am not sure if you´ve seen last season but last 20 games he had fingers in almost as many goals resulting us losing points after points. It´s a miracle why he is still trusted, however the answer is easy. He can stay fit.
In few years time he will be gone and I would be surprised if any team from the premier league would go after him, he´s simply not good enough for the league let alone for United mate.
Ok I get that but why didn't he play Tuanzebe then who at least could have provided some pace alongside Maguire to get him out of the shit and also clears that ball into the box that Harry & Victor just left like a pair of clowns
I can see us falling away in the league if Ole doesn't wake the feck up and use either Bailly/Tuanzebe alongside Maguire
Agreed.
How on earth are we supposed to have any confidence of winning games when him & Harry keep playing together
I’m sorry but I think it is you who need to study some statistics. If you have a player who has played many matches (Lindelof, large sample size) and another player who played few matches (Bailly, small sample size), then Baillys stats must be dramatically better than Lindelof’s to conclude that he is a better player, statistically. That’s how it works.
The question is how you, with such a small sample size, can conclude that Bailly is more proactive, better tackler, better in the air and “better at pretty much everything”.
Some stats so far this season as CBs:
Lindelof has won 2.6 aerial duels per match and Bailly 1.8.
Lindelof has made 0.8 succesful tackles per match and Bailly 0.4.
Lindelof has made 1.2 interceptions per match and Bailly 1.5.
Lindelof has made 3.8 clearances per match and Bailly 4.5.
Lindelof 0.7 blocks, Bailly 1.3.
Lindelof 1 goal 1 assist. Bailly 0+0.
So not sure how you can make all those conclusion with the data above from such a small sample size.
If you still talk about the PL, Lindelof and Maguire as pair have 8 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses. So it’s not like we never win anything with them.
I just don't trust them as a pair full stop but those stats will be music to Ole's ears and will ensure they stay together, unfortunately the problem with that is we don't play with a high line and there is a massive gap between our forwards and midfielders yet again.
Yes he is probably more resultat oriented than caring about who you trust, sorry.
Well got no confidence of winning games when they play together but admire fans that still trust Rosie & Jim
I don’t think your feeling is so strange and I can respect that, even though I don’t feel the same. Lindelof is not aggressive and it makes him look insecure and passive. He likes to follow and stall forwards rather than tackle. In England that is often seen as a weakness while Swedish commentators often praise him for that ability. Harry can often look clumsy and slow. However they get the job done. Less than 0.5 goals/game conceded in open play. As said before it is the setpieces that kill us. We are not just poor at defending setpieces, we are EXTREMELY poor at defending setpieces.
Yeah I am definitely not a fan of defenders who just stall forwards and certainly cannot understand him being praised for doing that but then that's just my opinion on the matter. I cannot understand why we seemingly have no plans to bring in someone who specialises in how to defend setpieces because it's a HUGE issue every game.
That’s probably because they’re Swedish though
Yes, setpieces are killing us. Last season we conceded least amount of goals in open play in the whole PL and it looks the same this season. But setpieces... I personally think it is a question of poor organisation. Most teams also have at least one strong forward who can help but we don’t really have any. When Pogba or maybe Matic play we have midfielders who are strong in the air but overall we are weak.
However there are team who are worse that only concede a third of set pieces goals and it must be something we can train to get better at.
Could be, but it’s probably also that different ways of defending are popular in different countries.
Bailly's resurgence has exposed Lindelof's defensive deficiencies. It's suddenly a lot easier to see what we miss, when we actually have someone to compare Lindelof to. We can see that he avoids defensive responsibility, retracts and put massive pressure on our team, and actually is worse than Bailly on the ball and has less composure on it. Bailly has his own weaknesses so there is definitely a discussion to be had who is best, as you can't just play two great games and get all the glory like Pogba but.. as far as what he is capable of bringing to the team there is no competition. His talent is so far ahead it's ridiculous they cost around the same amount.
Lindelof is the sort of defender that you used to buy for 5m from a unknown club and you really appreciated what he brung as a old back up cover CB out of the blue signing in certain games. If he is seen by some as a 50m defender that City would be interested in if they could get him.. I fail to understand where that has come from. Kind of a bad signing overall for the money we paid. Bailly fits into that category but as I said, you could see tremendous potential and we didn't know he would be injured a lot. The scouting done on Lindelof makes no sense. Wasn't he seen as a Vidic type on here at some point because he had a shaved head at the time and 'looked like' a classical hard CB. Uhm, I guess Mourinho must have "seen" something in him.
Lindelof is the sort of defender that you used to buy for 5m from a unknown club and you really appreciated what he brung as a old back up cover CB out of the blue signing in certain games. If he is seen by some as a 50m defender that City would be interested in if they could get him.. I fail to understand where that has come from. Kind of a bad signing overall for the money we paid. Bailly fits into that category but as I said, you could see tremendous potential and we didn't know he would be injured a lot. The scouting done on Lindelof makes no sense. Wasn't he seen as a Vidic type on here at some point because he had a shaved head at the time and 'looked like' a classical hard CB. Uhm, I guess Mourinho must have "seen" something in him.
I really don't think Lindelof is as bad as a lot of posters here make out. To suggest he's not good enough for the PL and is the sort of defender you used to get for 5 mill is ridiculous, in my view. He's a solid player, a cultured defender. He's not a star and probably would be better suited to being the No 3 man than a starting XI fixture, but I don't think he's a player that represents a critical weak point in the team. He is very rarely less than adequate, and sometimes more than that. We could use an upgrade yes, but that's also about the need to take care of the things Maguire doesn't do well, so that he can play within his limitations.
It's easy to like watching Bailly better - he's got the speed, he plays with flair and distinctiveness and determination, makes dramatic tackles. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's a better player. I think A-Man's got a good point about Lindelofs preference for shutting down rather than aggressively confronting attackers. It's not fun to watch, but it can be a very effective approach. It's also in fact an approach that the United defence as a whole seems to have, apart from AWB. They tend to try to maintain shape and stay in control of the situation, which makes them look under pressure a lot, but actually generally works quite well.
It's easy to like watching Bailly better - he's got the speed, he plays with flair and distinctiveness and determination, makes dramatic tackles. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's a better player. I think A-Man's got a good point about Lindelofs preference for shutting down rather than aggressively confronting attackers. It's not fun to watch, but it can be a very effective approach. It's also in fact an approach that the United defence as a whole seems to have, apart from AWB. They tend to try to maintain shape and stay in control of the situation, which makes them look under pressure a lot, but actually generally works quite well.
Yeah I can put up with him being a backup to a starter CB (number 3 as you call it) but certain that isn't going to happen as he has Ole's full trust and Bailly only gets a look in when he's either injured or it's a domestic cup game or Europa League tie. Definitely not a fan of this quiet shutting down method one bit because makes our defending look very weak indeed and is the main reason we keep on getting done at set pieces time and time again this season.
Sorry sir. I can afford the banning, but not the 100k fining. I may go bankrupt.
Take away the spuds game where Martial was sent off and team went to shit. Stats then look very different!
Sleepy Victor is one of worst CB in United history
Yes, if we remove his worst match his stats look better, absolutely. Our stats in general look much better if we remove the first matches of the season. We conceded 11 goals in our 3 first matches. That’s almost half of our conceded goals in our 3 first games, which has made our defence look worse than it currently is.
As I wrote long time ago, and which has been true also in this period of being fit, Bailly often play well against average teams (Wolves, Villa) but struggle against better teams and better forwards (Spurs, Leicester). His best attributes are physical and it’s not always enough against top teams. Could be the reason he didn’t play against City, but that’s just speculation obviously and personally I don’t really believe that was the reason.
In what stat category does his defending for the first goal against City come into? Failed clearance? Failed interception? Failed tackle? Failed header? Or do feck all and hope the player behind me clears the ball while I give a lame attempt and put everyone off their balance?
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