Virgin media complains about lack of domestic premier league rights

[Damien]

Even if more rights were available, it'd just be worse for us in terms of price and might even result in more companies purchasing rights and more subscription packages being required.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

Even if more rights were available, it'd just be worse for us in terms of price and might even result in more companies purchasing rights and more subscription packages being required.

Hey, it's all in the name of 'fair competition' right?

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

BBC have put up an article now:

Ofcom has opened an investigation into how the Premier League sells live TV media rights for its football matches in the UK.

It follows a complaint from Virgin Media, submitted to Ofcom in September.

In a statement, the Premier League said that the way it sold its audio-visual rights was "compatible with UK and EU competition law".

BSkyB and BT currently share the rights to televise Premier League football games.

The price for the latest rights deal - covering 2013-16 - rose by 70% to £3bn when it was announced in 2012.

In a statement, the Premier League said: "We note that Ofcom has launched an inquiry. Ofcom has stated that this is at an early stage and it has not reached a view as to whether there is sufficient evidence of any infringement.

"The Premier League currently sells its audio-visual rights in a way that is compatible with UK and EU competition law and will continue to do so."

Number of games
The Premier League will soon be starting the bidding process for the next tranche of rights from 2016 onwards.

But Virgin claims that the current arrangements "for the collective selling of live UK television rights by the Premier League for matches played by its member clubs is in breach of competition law".

In particular, it has raised concerns about the number of Premier League matches for which live broadcasting rights are made available.

"Virgin Media argues that the proportion of matches made available for live television broadcast under the current Premier League rights deals - at 41% - is lower than some other leading European leagues, where more matches are available for live television broadcast," said Ofcom in a statement.

Kick-off times
Ofcom said the investigation would be carried out under the terms of the Competition Act.

It added it was "mindful of the likely timing of the next auction of live UK audio-visual media rights, and is open to discussion with the Premier League about its plans".

Ofcom also says it will look at the issue of how many games are moved from their traditional 3pm kick-off times on Saturdays, because of TV scheduling needs.

As part of this, it will approach the Football Supporters' Federation and certain other supporters' groups to understand their views.

When Virgin's initial complaint was made, the Premier League said its audio-visual rights had "always been sold in a transparent and open process".

"Regulators have examined our rights packaging and sales process in considerable detail in the past and found both of them to be compliant with UK and European competition law."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30095012

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Even if more rights were available, it'd just be worse for us in terms of price and might even result in more companies purchasing rights and more subscription packages being required.

Yeah. Just like it was apparently unfair on consumers that Sky had a monopoly (if you include their Premiership Plus channel). Result? Consumers had to pay more money to watch the same amount of matches as the previous season. How fair.

 

[UweBein]

All matches are televised, just not in the UK, otherwise how would people be able to watch these illegal streams?

It's ridiculous that it is easier to watch football abroad than in the country the match is actually taking place.

.....

Yet, at the same time you have many avid followers of football, so it does seem to work at a certain level and to a certain extent.
You can't say that the clubs were hurt by this rule.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Yet, at the same time you have many avid followers of football, so it does seem to work at a certain level and to a certain extent.
You can't say that the clubs were hurt by this rule.

Who said clubs are hurt? It's the fans who are punished.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

The matches are moved for TV now yes; I'm just stating why the rule was brought in. Taken to the extreme though, could all games not be moved out of this restriction so that they may also be shown? I agree the rule should've been scrapped ages ago, but so far it has been resisted.

Which would be more likely to go first? Virgin would buy any new rights as would BT and Sky.

To be honest I would suspect for the marquee games like City v United, there would be no desire to have it clashing with any other matches to get maximum exposure. It would be the games like West Brom v Hull which may have been moved before but now there would be no point to do so.

 

[pocco]

All matches should be televised. No reason why people should have to miss out. It wouldn't affect ticket sales too drastically I would have thought.

 

[Ducklegs]

The 3pm restriction is stupid in this day and age.

As a United fan who doesnt live in Manchester, the local team could be playing in my back garden and giving out free hotdogs and booze, I still wouldnt watch them regardless of if there was a United match on telly on not.

I watch all our 3pm kickoffs online anyway, but I'd rather do it "legally".

 

[saivet]

Don't thinkf I can post the article but just read on article on the FT about this. It costs English views at least £51/month to watch all top domestic matches live, whereas in Germany it costs £21/month and £10/month in France.

What makes it worse is that we're paying the highest prices to watch the least amount of football on TV.

 

[Getsme]

Don't thinkf I can post the article but just read on article on the FT about this. It costs English views at least £51/month to watch all top domestic matches live, whereas in Germany it costs £21/month and £10/month in France.

What makes it worse is that we're paying the highest prices to watch the least amount of football on TV.

Don't think that will surprise anyone living in the UK. While people pay it the price will only go up.

 

[saivet]

Don't think that will surprise anyone living in the UK. While people pay it the price will only go up.

Not at all, but like people have said the 3pm blackout will only further this.

 

[Walrus]

It's ridiculous that it is easier to watch football abroad than in the country the match is actually taking place.

This 100%.

The rest of bloody Europe and beyond has better access to the PL than we do. As has also been said, plenty of fans will simply resort to illegal streams if a match is not being televised - there is a huge market there which for some reason they just willingly ignore.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

The 3pm rule is a shambles now anyway, especially for Premier League football. There are some Saturdays when there are only four or five 3pm kickoffs in the Premier League, whilst nearly all of the big-hitters are on at lunchtime, 5:30pm or at some point on Sunday. It's outdated and pointless. People are going to watch 3pm kick offs somehow, even if it's a grainy foreign stream, so why not make money from it?

English Football is years behind North America, where all of their major sports are now on an online subscription platform. NFL GamePass has an option to just buy your team's games to watch online, like a virtual season ticket. I think the PL should really look into something like that.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Just me who thinks the season pass thing is a terrible idea? It would be awful for me anyway. I want to watch every Liverpool game but I like watching other teams as much as I can too. What about neutral football fans? They'll have nothing to watch...

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Just me who thinks the season pass thing is a terrible idea? It would be awful for me anyway. I want to watch every Liverpool game but I like watching other teams as much as I can too. What about neutral football fans? They'll have nothing to watch...

The NFL GamePass, which I used as an example, has two options. You can buy just your own teams games for a cut price, or you can get the full package so you can watch all the games, right up to the Superbowl. I mentioned the season-ticket option purely as I'd personally favour that option, knowing that I could watch every United game without having to watch illegal low quality browser streams. I'd probably still have Sky Sports on the go as well.

Alternatively, the NHL Gamecenter package only allows you to watch out-of-market games. So you can't watch televised games until 48 hours later. If the Premier League adopted something similar, then it would allow people to watch 3pm kick offs legitimately, and make a bit of money from it as well. I think something similar to that would also be a good idea.

Neither of these platforms have dislodged televised sports either. If the Premier League adopted a similar model, I wouldn't want it to act as a replacement for televised football (and I don't think it would) but more for watching games which aren't televised.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

The NFL GamePass, which I used as an example, has two options. You can buy just your own teams games for a cut price, or you can get the full package so you can watch all the games, right up to the Superbowl. I mentioned the season-ticket option purely as I'd personally favour that option, knowing that I could watch every United game without having to watch illegal low quality browser streams. I'd probably still have Sky Sports on the go as well.

Alternatively, the NHL Gamecenter package only allows you to watch out-of-market games. So you can't watch televised games until 48 hours later. If the Premier League adopted something similar, then it would allow people to watch 3pm kick offs legitimately, and make a bit of money from it as well. I think something similar to that would also be a good idea.

Neither of these platforms have dislodged televised sports either. If the Premier League adopted a similar model, I wouldn't want it to act as a replacement for televised football (and I don't think it would) but more for watching games which aren't televised.

Ah right. I didn't know anything about the NFL package so just assumed it was a replacement for TV.

Cheers for the clarification, that definitely sounds a lot better yeah.

 

[Lynk]

Setenta show one 3pm kick-off don’t they? How much is it?

21 quid for BT + Setanta
30 quid for Sky Sports


Still crazy though. I wish we had the pricing plan that New Zealand have.

 

[saivet]

21 quid for BT + Setanta
30 quid for Sky Sports


Still crazy though. I wish we had the pricing plan that New Zealand have.

What's their plan?

 

[ATXRedDevil]

It's only a matter of time until all games are televised.

Wait, all the game aren't televised in the UK? Jesus... I can watch any game I want live on one of the nbc networks in the us or if there are too many on at once - one of the alternate channels that exist just for that issue. Pretty pathetic that's not the case in the UK...

Also, OP - love the handle.

 

[Jammydodger7]

Would the 3pm games really be affected with TV? Firstly it would only be 1 game and secondly most people who attend games are probably season ticket holders or live far away and only get to go now and again. The fact that United are on TV wouldn't stop me from going to a game, you go for the atmosphere!

 

[Lynk]

What's their plan?

19 quid a month for every game.

 

[Bury Red]

About bloody time, seems farcical that living in Hong Kong and Singapore for the last 14 years I've barely missed a single match as they are almost all televised live even thought they're airing at stupid o'clock in the morning. Return to live in the UK and I'm now having to pay way over twice the fees as Sky and BT have split the coverage and get to watch less than 30% of the matches live.

 

[Sir A1ex]

Just me who thinks the season pass thing is a terrible idea? It would be awful for me anyway. I want to watch every Liverpool game but I like watching other teams as much as I can too. What about neutral football fans? They'll have nothing to watch...

Where has this been suggested? I've never heard of it.

Personally it would potentially suit me, depending on pricing. 90% of the reason I pay for Sky Sports and BT Sport (ignoring other sports they show, as football is the bulk of the cost) is to watch United. If I could pay a fraction of the price and only see United matches, I'd go with that.

 

[saivet]

Wait, all the game aren't televised in the UK? Jesus... I can watch any game I want live on one of the nbc networks in the us or if there are too many on at once - one of the alternate channels that exist just for that issue. Pretty pathetic that's not the case in the UK...

Also, OP - love the handle.

About 5 games live a weekend.

2 on the Saturday, early and late KO
Usually 2 but sometimes 3 on the Sunday
And all Monday night games.

 

[Maccaa]

Virgin only want more games televised so they can put their subscription fee up. I'd keep it how it is, I enjoy watching Saturday 3pm kick offs in the pub thanks. There is more than enough televised football for us too enjoy.

 

[stepic]

Virgin only want more games televised so they can put their subscription fee up. I'd keep it how it is, I enjoy watching Saturday 3pm kick offs in the pub thanks. There is more than enough televised football for us too enjoy.

what, on an illegal TV subscription? pubs aren't allowed to show 3pm games either.

 

[stepic]

speaking of which, what happened to that pub land lady who won her case about showing an EU subscription (or whatevr it was) in her pub?

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

speaking of which, what happened to that pub land lady who won her case about showing an EU subscription (or whatevr it was) in her pub?

Yeah weren't they supposed to be bringing in Europe-wide rights agreements?

 

[Minimalist]

It's only a matter of time until all games are televised.

This.

 

[Jerch]

These prices are mad. I pay 32 €/month for home telefon, internet and TV. I can watch most PL and La liga matches, Seria A Eredevise and Portugal legaue and all national cups from these countries. To much football.

 

[matherto]

Yet again we have to look at the Bundesliga to find out the way things are done.

Aren't all the matches broadcast on a system similar to the way we get all the Champions League games (red button simulcast type) and yet they've got the highest average attendance of any league in the world? (Not to mention all the goodness of being all to stand, drink beer and actually get behind your team properly...)

 

[Hemil]

These prices are mad. I pay 32 €/month for home telefon, internet and TV. I can watch most PL and La liga matches, Seria A Eredevise and Portugal legaue and all national cups from these countries. To much football.

In India, we pay even lesser than that for BPL, La liga, Serie A , Bundesliga, French Ligue, UCL, Europa League, Hyundai-A League, all domestic cups and many international games including Euros and World Cup.

 

[ATXRedDevil]

About 5 games live a weekend.

2 on the Saturday, early and late KO
Usually 2 but sometimes 3 on the Sunday
And all Monday night games.

That just blows my mind. What's the rationale of that? Who owns the rights? Sky? There's absolutely zero reason why every single game shouldn't be live. It's 2014...

 

[rufus diabolus]

what, on an illegal TV subscription? pubs aren't allowed to show 3pm games either.

There's plenty of pubs in Manchester where you can watch these.

 

[acnumber9]

All matches should be televised. No reason why people should have to miss out. It wouldn't affect ticket sales too drastically I would have thought.

Not for the clubs playing but there a lot more than 20 football clubs in the UK.

 

[finneh]

Should be the same as in the US.

If the game is sold out it should be televised. If it isn't it shouldn't be, which will encourage people to go and watch the match live.

 

[peterstorey]

For me the 3 PM kick-off is for the convenience of the match going fans, going to and coming from the match, meeting up with your mates for a few pints, getting home in time with your kids, travel to and from the match etc. A 3PM kick off also adds to the atmosphere, when compared to a game that kicks off at 12:45, or 19:45 there is a notable difference IMO.

Sadly for the bigger Clubs not kicking off at 3pm has become the norm, I think we’ve only played at 3pm twice this season

Fork off you're just a match-going fan, one step up from the pondlife that is the away fan. Now armchair fans...

 

[Wumminator]

I'm very happy with the way things are now. Wish there were less lunch time kick offs and more 3 O'Clocks.

 

[Wumminator]

If you want to watch the game just stream it. I love going to some smaller games at 3.