Was Louis Van Gaal our best "coach" in the post Fergie years?

[fergies coat]

Was worth it for this alone.

 

[hellhunter]

Van Gaal was the only time after Fergie when we had a distinct system and philosophy we tried to execute. So yeah, he was the best coach since he actually had a plan and made the players follow it.

It wasn't a great time, though

 

[AlPistacho]

Think there's tablets you can take for your short term memory.

Ole spent the most, made the least progress and regressed us the most. He was given the most time. He didn’t develop any players or make any players better, he didn’t implement any style of play.

LVG was actually a very good coach, in his second season he had us well drilled with some of the worse players in United’s history. 3-4 academy players who today are not even championship level, the only problem was the creative part. Yet despite that we finished level on points with City in the year that he got sacked.

 

[phelans shorts]

It would have been good to have given him another season at united, he was the only one that sort of moved the club forward with trying to change the culture on the pitch and with facilities and academy.

for all we know maybe depay, martial and rashford could have benefitted from him remaining in charge and developed for the better instead mourinho not fully trusting them

I can only assume you aren’t a United fan, he was here 6 months longer than he should have been.

 

[AshRK]

Our mistake wasn't sacking van gaal but the mistake was to appoint a total opposite manager to him in Jose. Think, we should have approached for someone like Poch in 2016 to maintain some continuity.

 

[Tigersam]

The football wasn't great, the Di Maria situation didn't help, none of that was his fault. If Angel had settled and played to potential at United I think a lot of things would have been different. the football became tumescent and dull.

Didn't he have intruders into his home threatening him and his family?

I only ask because it rings a bell and interestingly I read something similar about Johan Cruyff earlier today. It was always odd to me that Cruff didn't attend the 1978 World Cup and it was my understanding he had a fallout with the Netherlands football association. Turned out he had intruders into his home earlier that year - family tied up - a gun put to his head (it was even worse than the DiMaria thing as it was an attempted kidnapping) and obviously that had a big impact on where he felt his priorities lay.

 

[DJ_21]

Our mistake wasn't sacking van gaal but the mistake was to appoint a total opposite manager to him in Jose. Think, we should have approached for someone like Poch in 2016 to maintain some continuity.

Aren’t there style of plays quite different though? What style does LVG even play, is it defensive? Counter attacking or attacking? Some games they look boring but others they’ve dominated and created loads.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Didn't he have intruders into his home threatening him and his family?

I only ask because it rings a bell and interestingly I read something similar about Johan Cruyff earlier today. It was always odd to me that Cruff didn't attend the 1978 World Cup and it was my understanding he had a fallout with the Netherlands football association. Turned out he had intruders into his home earlier that year - family tied up - a gun put to his head (it was even worse than the DiMaria thing as it was an attempted kidnapping) and obviously that had a big impact on where he felt his priorities lay.

That happened in January, and probably contributed to his quick exit but he was already in poor form by then.

 

[AshRK]

Aren’t there style of plays quite different though? What style does LVG even play, is it defensive? Counter attacking or attacking? Some games they look boring but others they’ve dominated and created loads.

I felt lvg looked to have his team keep possession for the sake of it. But then there were some games we were just completely outplayed, no style , no possession, just nothing.

 

[Rojofiam]

Ole spent the most, made the least progress and regressed us the most. He was given the most time. He didn’t develop any players or make any players better, he didn’t implement any style of play.

LVG was actually a very good coach, in his second season he had us well drilled with some of the worse players in United’s history. 3-4 academy players who today are not even championship level, the only problem was the creative part. Yet despite that we finished level on points with City in the year that he got sacked.

Made the least progress You should judge progress on the quality of the squad, league tables and performances. Instead you'll spout some shit about how we failed in cup tournaments (we usually made deep runs anyway)

He literally made more progress in those 3 years than every other post-SAF manager before him combined...but go on. Not even gonna waste more time arguing with you. Like I said, 0 IQ.

LVG was by far the worst manager we've had since SAF, btw. Worse than Moyes.

Edit: Didn't develop a style of play - another myth constantly regurgitated by 15 year olds on Football Twitter

 

[Rightnr]

He was and it was clear. We were so boring though, apart from Juanfield

 

[BuzzKillington]

I think he’s the sort of coach that excels in certain scenarios- he done it in so many countries and leagues, his CV is amazing - but he wasn’t the right coach for us, he wasn’t suited to PL football and United wasn’t the right club for him. I hated watching our games when he was here.

Same. It colours my opinion of him and i find it hard to be objective with him.

 

[Rightnr]

Made the least progress You should judge progress on the quality of the squad, league tables and performances. Instead you'll spout some shit about how we failed in cup tournaments (we usually made deep runs anyway)

He literally made more progress in those 3 years than every other post-SAF manager before him combined...but go on. Not even gonna waste more time arguing with you. Like I said, 0 IQ.

LVG was by far the worst manager we've had since SAF, btw. Worse than Moyes.

Edit: Didn't develop a style of play - another myth constantly regurgitated by 15 year olds on Football Twitter

Didn't know we had Ole's kin posting on the Caf.

 

[DJ_21]

I felt lvg looked to have his team keep possession for the sake of it. But then there were some games we were just completely outplayed, no style , no possession, just nothing.

Looked awful against teams like Norwich but we could beat the liverpools and the city’s. LVG to this day still says he would have had us playing like peps city now.

 

[tjb]

Regarding his signings, he has said that he didn’t get a single player he asked for in the time he was here.

I’ve posted this before and people responded saying he probably asked for Messi and other unattainable players and therefore the signings we made while he was here must be his fault.

I would agree that the style was a bit boring and wasn’t yielding satisfactory results. That said, I think there were people above him interfering with football decisions without the credentials to do it (a long-standing problem which all our managers had to live with).

But he must still have had some say so in the players that came anyway. We signed 11 players in the two summer windows he came in

Blind
Herrera
Rojo
Di Maria
Falcao
Luke Shaw
Memphis
Darmian
Schweinsteiger
Schneiderlin
Romero
Martial

When you look at that list, its quite clear he had a massive say.
In the first season, he had us starting line ups with the likes of Mcnair and Blackett, with Lingard and a wingback, convincing desperate fans that his 352 could work. We spent 6 months wasting time on that formation. No serious manager would have had the hubris to practice, sign and sell players for a system they used for only a few weeks in the world cup, where the team didn't even play well in an attacking sense.

Add that to the fact that he then sold:
Evra
Kagawa
Rafael
Zaha
Nani
Hernandez

This is not to say that this group were playing amazing at the time, but these were the best parts or potential parts of the squad he had prior to his arrival. He sold Nani, only to complain that he needed a winger after.

People like to blame the club for these things but LVG has never had a good record in regard to transfers. United's problem over the last 10 years in regard to recruitment is failing to realize that a lot of managers don't have the will and ability to actually plan for a club past their immediate squads. We put too much trust in people who may not have had the best interest of the club in mind.
Fans end up supporting the managers anyway, since the club is essentially a faceless entity and is quite easy to blame for things, but particularly in regard to recruitment, LVG let us down.

Mourinho was our best manager after SAF. He had to inherit the rubbish LVG bought. He publicly criticized LVG for doing this. He then had the issue of having to manage a club that had already wasted lots of money prior to his arrival. LVG didn't have this problem. Mourinho had to do with tighter purse strings at key times, not LVG.

 

[Carolina Red]

Made the least progress You should judge progress on the quality of the squad, league tables and performances. Instead you'll spout some shit about how we failed in cup tournaments (we usually made deep runs anyway)

He literally made more progress in those 3 years than every other post-SAF manager before him combined...but go on. Not even gonna waste more time arguing with you. Like I said, 0 IQ.

LVG was by far the worst manager we've had since SAF, btw. Worse than Moyes.

Edit: Didn't develop a style of play - another myth constantly regurgitated by 15 year olds on Football Twitter

The one coming across as a 15 year old on Twitter is you…

 

[Jeppers7]

ETH

 

[AshRK]

Looked awful against teams like Norwich but we could beat the liverpools and the city’s. LVG to this day still says he would have had us playing like peps city now.

The guy lives in his own delusion. He wouldn't have helped us play like Pep. As for his record against big teams, well it wasn't great itself. Loss to arsenal, loss to Jose's chelsea, heck we struggled to beat the 2015-16 season chelsea, loss to spurs in a crunch game in 15-16 season, loss to Liverpool in europa. The list goes on.

Overall I felt his whole time was a huge waste.

 

[phelans shorts]

Looked awful against teams like Norwich but we could beat the liverpools and the city’s. LVG to this day still says he would have had us playing like peps city now.

He always did talk a big game. Nothing on the pitch to support his claims though.

 

[AshRK]

But he must still have had some say so in the players that came anyway. We signed 11 players in the two summer windows he came in

Blind
Herrera
Rojo
Di Maria
Falcao
Luke Shaw
Memphis
Darmian
Schweinsteiger
Schneiderlin
Romero
Martial

When you look at that list, its quite clear he had a massive say.
In the first season, he had us starting line ups with the likes of Mcnair and Blackett, with Lingard and a wingback, convincing desperate fans that his 352 could work. We spent 6 months wasting time on that formation. No serious manager would have had the hubris to practice, sign and sell players for a system they used for only a few weeks in the world cup, where the team didn't even play well in an attacking sense.

Add that to the fact that he then sold:
Evra
Kagawa
Rafael
Zaha
Nani
Hernandez

This is not to say that this group were playing amazing at the time, but these were the best parts or potential parts of the squad he had prior to his arrival. He sold Nani, only to complain that he needed a winger after.

People like to blame the club for these things but LVG has never had a good record in regard to transfers. United's problem over the last 10 years in regard to recruitment is failing to realize that a lot of managers don't have the will and ability to actually plan for a club past their immediate squads. We put too much trust in people who may not have had the best interest of the club in mind.
Fans end up supporting the managers anyway, since the club is essentially a faceless entity and is quite easy to blame for things, but particularly in regard to recruitment, LVG let us down.

Mourinho was our best manager after SAF. He had to inherit the rubbish LVG bought. He publicly criticized LVG for doing this. He then had the issue of having to manage a club that had already wasted lots of money prior to his arrival. LVG didn't have this problem. Mourinho had to do with tighter purse strings at key times, not LVG.

Good post. And one other thing people fail to realise his he had best chance to actually win the league considering it didn't have a pep or a peak klopp to constest with. It was a missed opportunity. I bet if he had Jose as our manager in 2013 after SAf we would have won the league. LVG took us backwards and did nothing for us.

 

[Cheimoon]

To be fair, I applaud that.

I loved that time someone dived and he did a Charlie Chaplin impression on the sidelines to show his displeasure.

This?

 

[marktan]

But he must still have had some say so in the players that came anyway. We signed 11 players in the two summer windows he came in

Blind
Herrera
Rojo
Di Maria
Falcao
Luke Shaw
Memphis
Darmian
Schweinsteiger
Schneiderlin
Romero
Martial

When you look at that list, its quite clear he had a massive say.
In the first season, he had us starting line ups with the likes of Mcnair and Blackett, with Lingard and a wingback, convincing desperate fans that his 352 could work. We spent 6 months wasting time on that formation. No serious manager would have had the hubris to practice, sign and sell players for a system they used for only a few weeks in the world cup, where the team didn't even play well in an attacking sense.

Add that to the fact that he then sold:
Evra
Kagawa
Rafael
Zaha
Nani
Hernandez

This is not to say that this group were playing amazing at the time, but these were the best parts or potential parts of the squad he had prior to his arrival. He sold Nani, only to complain that he needed a winger after.

People like to blame the club for these things but LVG has never had a good record in regard to transfers. United's problem over the last 10 years in regard to recruitment is failing to realize that a lot of managers don't have the will and ability to actually plan for a club past their immediate squads. We put too much trust in people who may not have had the best interest of the club in mind.
Fans end up supporting the managers anyway, since the club is essentially a faceless entity and is quite easy to blame for things, but particularly in regard to recruitment, LVG let us down.

Mourinho was our best manager after SAF. He had to inherit the rubbish LVG bought. He publicly criticized LVG for doing this. He then had the issue of having to manage a club that had already wasted lots of money prior to his arrival. LVG didn't have this problem. Mourinho had to do with tighter purse strings at key times, not LVG.

Agreed. People hate on Moyes, but Moyes didn't really do anything to the squad since he only had a season here.

You can also Johny Evans and Welbeck to that list, not world beaters but they were good squad players under SAF and were good at Arsenal / Leicester.

Our descent into mediocrity started when Van Gaal sold all our better players and replaced them with inferior players.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

The only manager who can out entertain even the great fergie. Problem is, its quite limited to off field entertainment. Crazy guy, love the bastard.

 

[Chief123]

I truly realised how absolutely shite LVG was when one game (I think it was Liverpool away) where we played absolutely tumescent shite football and finished the game with the greatest robbery football has ever seen with a 1-0 win with only 1 shot on goal all game.

Every person with some form of visual capability could see we had just carried out a bank heist. Yet LVG came out after the game to say we played exactly how it was planned and it went to perfection. Ffs.

 

[El Zoido]

The most boring football I’ve ever watched in my entire life. Godawful stuff. I keep getting PTSD watching these NL games when it cuts to him in the dugout.

 

[OrcaFat]

But he must still have had some say so in the players that came anyway. We signed 11 players in the two summer windows he came in

Blind
Herrera
Rojo
Di Maria
Falcao
Luke Shaw
Memphis
Darmian
Schweinsteiger
Schneiderlin
Romero
Martial

When you look at that list, its quite clear he had a massive say.
In the first season, he had us starting line ups with the likes of Mcnair and Blackett, with Lingard and a wingback, convincing desperate fans that his 352 could work. We spent 6 months wasting time on that formation. No serious manager would have had the hubris to practice, sign and sell players for a system they used for only a few weeks in the world cup, where the team didn't even play well in an attacking sense.

Add that to the fact that he then sold:
Evra
Kagawa
Rafael
Zaha
Nani
Hernandez

This is not to say that this group were playing amazing at the time, but these were the best parts or potential parts of the squad he had prior to his arrival. He sold Nani, only to complain that he needed a winger after.

People like to blame the club for these things but LVG has never had a good record in regard to transfers. United's problem over the last 10 years in regard to recruitment is failing to realize that a lot of managers don't have the will and ability to actually plan for a club past their immediate squads. We put too much trust in people who may not have had the best interest of the club in mind.
Fans end up supporting the managers anyway, since the club is essentially a faceless entity and is quite easy to blame for things, but particularly in regard to recruitment, LVG let us down.

Mourinho was our best manager after SAF. He had to inherit the rubbish LVG bought. He publicly criticized LVG for doing this. He then had the issue of having to manage a club that had already wasted lots of money prior to his arrival. LVG didn't have this problem. Mourinho had to do with tighter purse strings at key times, not LVG.

He probably did have some say. The question is how much say did he have and was it worth anything? I think his hands were somewhat tied. That’s certainly what he says, could be BS but it all rings pretty true.

LVG is not exonerated but I do blame the people above him, not just for what happened when he was here but also what happened before and after. Mourinho inherited the squad that was there when LVG left and could rightly complain about it but that doesn’t mean the board and senior management weren’t largely to blame.

I like Mourinho but he also had problems with the board and the squad he left was not that great either. The idiots in the executive positions are the common denominator here.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Had we stayed with LvG I firmly believe Rashford & Martial would be far closer to World Class then they are now.

His football was stale mind.

 

[lsd]

He delivered the worst football I have ever seen from United. It's the only time I stopped watching us play it was just so utterly full and boring.

No matter how bad we were under Moyes or Mourinho I never reached that stage where I worked so literally anything other than watch us play.

I loved his press conferences and I like the man but he is by far the worst manager I have seen for us just in terms of how we played.

His obsession with a clearly past it Rooney too was baffling I really believe if he still managed us Rooney would still be playing for us week in week out

 

[DJ_21]

The guy lives in his own delusion. He wouldn't have helped us play like Pep. As for his record against big teams, well it wasn't great itself. Loss to arsenal, loss to Jose's chelsea, heck we struggled to beat the 2015-16 season chelsea, loss to spurs in a crunch game in 15-16 season, loss to Liverpool in europa. The list goes on.

Overall I felt his whole time was a huge waste.

I get what you’re saying and agree with what you’re saying. All in all it was a disaster. He did have some decent games though mainly against better opposition.

 

[AltiUn]

Something don’t add up here.

My feelings are the same as the poster below, but he expresses it a lot better than I did.

Yes. He was clearly successful at implementing a style and philosophy.

Unfortunately, the style was boring and the philosophy antiquated and the football as a result was tedious and shite.

 

[lsd]

Other than ETH, van Gaal was easily the one i enjoyed the most. Even when he had his weird outbursts he was somewhat likeable. Adding to that he could always pull a masterclass and from what I recall our performances against top 6 teams were impressive and the reason he eventually got the sack was due to us continously underperforming against midtable opponents.

After the crystal place final it was quite the bitter ending to his tenure and my opinion is that was the only manager that had that x-factor that Mourinho also shared earlier in his career but never got close to at United. Even though I am quite happy about our current situation with Ten Haag I think that an extended run with Louis would've come good.

He was only going to stay over more year anyway the plan was to Install Giggs as manager after his third year.

When he signed Martial he said it was for Giggs not him.

 

[AlPistacho]

Made the least progress You should judge progress on the quality of the squad, league tables and performances. Instead you'll spout some shit about how we failed in cup tournaments (we usually made deep runs anyway)

He literally made more progress in those 3 years than every other post-SAF manager before him combined...but go on. Not even gonna waste more time arguing with you. Like I said, 0 IQ.

LVG was by far the worst manager we've had since SAF, btw. Worse than Moyes.

Edit: Didn't develop a style of play - another myth constantly regurgitated by 15 year olds on Football Twitter

Despite typing a lot you haven’t actually said anything to support you claim. The only one typing like a 15 y/o is actually you.

 

[shamans]

Van Gaal is the reason the whole descent started.

 

[AlPistacho]

Van Gaal is the reason the whole descent started.

Moyes adds you to his Christmas card list.

 

[pierrethesnack]

In the first season, he had us starting line ups with the likes of Mcnair and Blackett, with Lingard and a wingback, convincing desperate fans that his 352 could work. We spent 6 months wasting time on that formation. No serious manager would have had the hubris to practice, sign and sell players for a system they used for only a few weeks in the world cup, where the team didn't even play well in an attacking sense.

I never thought of it like that, but it's quite damning when put like that.

 

[shamans]

Moyes adds you to his Christmas card list.

No the difference is moyes was incompetent. Just failed at what he was doing completely and left the squad without any fundamental change. He had crap tactics but nothing lasting.

Van Gaal is actually a top coach and goes without saying better than Moyes. His record speaks for himself. So, rightly, we gave him authority to gut the team and build something of his own.

Now that simply didn't happen. Whether he just built the wrong foundation or we didn't give him time, it just didn't work out and as a result it's where our long term decline started.

After that it took long for Mourinho to dig us out of it and to some extent the impact remains where we hardly have senior players left on the team.

 

[Scandi Red]

Mourinho also had a pretty distinct system and he achieved more than Van Gaal. And Solskjær was probably(it's impossible to know for sure) a better coach in terms of dealing with the players.

So no, I don't think that Van Gaal was the best coach.

 

[AlPistacho]

No the difference is moyes was incompetent. Just failed at what he was doing completely and left the squad without any fundamental change. He had crap tactics but nothing lasting.

Van Gaal is actually a top coach and goes without saying better than Moyes. His record speaks for himself. So, rightly, we gave him authority to gut the team and build something of his own.

Now that simply didn't happen. Whether he just built the wrong foundation or we didn't give him time, it just didn't work out and as a result it's where our long term decline started.

After that it took long for Mourinho to dig us out of it and to some extent the impact remains where we hardly have senior players left on the team.

I get your point. The issue I think was going from two footballing extremes. LVG probably needed more time and a few more signings. Mourinho walked into a team that was the opposite to his tactical ideals. But don’t forget Mourinho won the Europa in his first year.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I don't ever want to see a manager/coach again who insists on playing a back 5. I'd take Moyes over LVG...

 

[NewGlory]

He was by far the most ill-fitted, is the way I would describe it. Clearly Ole was the weakest, but Van Gaal was an even worse fit for us, somehow. I don't think he is a great club manager in general, but his arrogance and misguided "philosophy" were the real disaster

The best manager we have had since SAF, by a long mile, is Erik ten Hag. And if we get lucky with the new owners (honestly, it cannot be any worse so the question is how much better) then we could have the best manager who was available + sane executive management, at which point we can expect sustainable improvement #fingersCrossed