Was Veron a flop?

Glorio

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You sold him to a bunch of mugs for a huge loss a year after you signed him. He was a flop.
:lol: funny coming from you!
 

Glorio

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He struggled with the tempo at times. You never saw Keane or Scholes struggling with that, so he was a tier below them.

I remember some games when he was ran over and just looked perplexed by the tempo.

But when in control he was class. Just not as good as Keane or Scholes.
I disagree that he was a tier below, just wasn't used to the pace of a league where the players you mentioned had spent most of their career
 
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His performance in this game was epic and the game itself was a significant match in reclaiming the title in 02/03.... and like someone else has pointed out, it is infuriating that this game finished 2-0 to United, not 2-1 as the video is labeled.

Much like Berbatov (as many have pointed out) Veron blew hot and cold, and ultimately his inconsistency led to his exit, but make no mistake - when he was on, he was on. He was a significant contributor in our 02/03 title so that alone elevates him above the "flop" category - I'm not saying he was our best player that season (that would have clearly been RVN) but Veron made a significant contribution in the season (which should nullify the "but bit part players like Kieron Richardson, Mike Eagles, Luke Chadwick, Quinton Fortune won league titles" counter argument - Veron was in no way a bit part player in 02/03). Anyone who watched Veron destroy Juve over two legs in 2003 would see that the boy could play football and that he should not be included in the same category with names like : Alexis Sanchez, Di Maria, Memphis Depay, Bastian Schweinsteiger, Mark Bosnich, Klebberson DJDJ, Gary Birtles, Andy Goram, Terry Gibson, Jim Leighton, Karel Poborski, Jordi Cryuff.
No one is trying to compare Veron with Andy Goram (a reserve keeper :lol: )

Veron had as many good games as Di Maria. When you come with such a massive price tag, there are greater expectations.

out of that list, the only comparable is Di Maria - both in their prime, and world class players.

you can’t compare him to punts like Cryff, Djema x 2 or older players or free transfers. You’ve actually got 3 keepers on the list - and missed out the biggest keeper flop in Tiabi.
 

Glorio

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I don’t remember the opponent but my memory swears I was watching a pre season highlight on Sky News & he played a ridiculous through ball for an assist then was sold days later.

Might just be a false memory but I remember thinking he was about to settle as well.
I thought the same tbh. I thought the penny was just about dropping - shows how ruthlessly efficient SAF was I guess
 
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I thought the same tbh. I thought the penny was just about dropping - shows how ruthlessly efficient SAF was I guess
I thought the same at the time, but afterwards, I think it was more about bigging him up so he could sell him.
 

Foxbatt

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I don’t remember the opponent but my memory swears I was watching a pre season highlight on Sky News & he played a ridiculous through ball for an assist then was sold days later.

Might just be a false memory but I remember thinking he was about to settle as well.
It was in the USA and he and RVN murdered the opposition which I think was either Juventus or Real. He should have never been sold. I think SAF was forced to sell him. With the team set up as Keane and Scholes in the middle, Veron could get into the side regularly. These days, he would waltz into the side. To me he is a better player than Pogba and Bruno.
 

FootballHQ

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Interviewed in this month's FourFourTwo Magazine:

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...hester-united-i-wished-id-stayed-there-longer

Also an interesting comment from question that wasn't included in that report.

"I actually found it tougher to live in London than Manchester because I'm from La Plata which is quite a small city. I wish I could have stayed at United longer as I believe I could have done things differently."

Was his house robbed while at Chelsea or was that just Crespo?

I actually think in terms of profile he remains one of the biggest ever prem signings. You look at some of the best players in the league and likes of Henry and Bergkamp had struggled in Seria A while Veron was one of the very best midfielders in the world at Lazio and at 26 pretty much at his peak compared to again someone like Ronaldo who was very young when he joined or some of the older players who've joined.

Same reason I thought Desailly was huge for premier league at the time given his status for France and in Serie A but it never got the same hype.

Guess the modern day equivilant is Paul Pogba and he'll be seen in much the same way in 10 years time.
 

204Red

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No one is trying to compare Veron with Andy Goram (a reserve keeper :lol: )

Veron had as many good games as Di Maria. When you come with such a massive price tag, there are greater expectations.

out of that list, the only comparable is Di Maria - both in their prime, and world class players.

you can’t compare him to punts like Cryff, Djema x 2 or older players or free transfers. You’ve actually got 3 keepers on the list - and missed out the biggest keeper flop in Tiabi.
point taken on Andy Goram (which was tongue and cheek inclusion to be fair) and DJx2 who is an unfair and easy target.

But I would suggest Veron had significantly more "good" games for United than DiMaria and what I am ultimately saying (and prepared to back up) is that whether you consider price or expectation (or both together) Veron does not deserve to be lumped in with this list of losers... he is in a category above them.

DiMaria - Most expensive signing at the time, and after a promising start fell out of favor - FLOP

Sanchez - our highest EVER salaried player - was a top 3 player in the PL for the previous 3 seasons - had one of two bright moments (3-2 comeback vs city) in an otherwise dismal and expensive Utd career - FLOP (and possibly the 2nd biggest flop in club history)

Jim Leighton - record English fee paid for a goalkeeper - actually cost significantly more than Peter Schmeichel - we all know how that turned out - FLOP

You mentioned Tiabi another record money signing for a keeper at the time - after a MOM start vs Liverpool at Anfield, it was all downhill and fast - FLOP

Memphis, Poborsky, Cryuff all top highly touted prospects signed after solid performances in international tournaments the previous summer and all showed us why you should never sign anyone based solely on solid performances in international tournaments the previous summer... even Klebberson arrived with top international credentials (and a world cup winners medal) - all FLOPS

Bastian Schweinsteiger - veteran arriving late in his career, past his best - but signed clearly believing he had something left to offer. Compare what he brought to the table vs other veterans who arrived at the club in their 30s (Sherringham, Zlatan, Cavani) - FLOP

And the Gold Standard of Flops
Gary Birtles - 2nd most expensive British transfer at the time, arrived with 2 European Cup medals and a league title at Forrest, England international (back when that meant something) who should have been entering the prime of his career - 0 league goals in 25 games in his 1st full season - TOTAL & UTTER FLOP
 

Bebestation

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I'm not even Martial's biggest fan anymore but it's crazy how people can wonder if Veron was a flop whilst chucking all the hate for a player like Martial.

It's crazy what a title win can do, it doesnt matter if you were part of it or not, if we win it keeps alot of our hungry fans happy to the point that Veron is questioned about being a flop at all. :confused:
 

dinostar77

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I don't think he was a flop exactly, but it certainly didn't work out.

He was bought as SAF was experimenting with moving away from his tried and tested 442. You'd been knocked out of Europe the previous two years by Madrid and Bayern respectively both playing 433 and passing through Utd's 2 man midfield.

Ferguson switched his formation that year at the beginning of the season to 451 to fit Veron in and at first it worked really well and Veron scored a few as well, but after a shock loss to Bolton you went on a losing run and 442 was eventually reintroduced, Veron struggled in that, there were also rumours of senior players taking him to one side to explain what playing for Man Utd really meant and how he wasn't trying hard enough, believe what you will.

Personally I think he never adapted properly to the premiership, his time at Chelsea was even worse than his time at Utd, the league wasn't technical enough for a player with his skill set in those days.

I do remember SAF saying to the press something like "He's a fecking great player and you're bunch of fecking idiots" and then walking out of the presser though!
+1. Outstanding player. Wrong place at the wrong time. If he played in the PL now he'd be a KDB level star. Unbelievable passing range and ability. Wasnt it Keane who said he was the most skillful player hes played with at Utd?
 
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point taken on Andy Goram (which was tongue and cheek inclusion to be fair) and DJx2 who is an unfair and easy target.

But I would suggest Veron had significantly more "good" games for United than DiMaria and what I am ultimately saying (and prepared to back up) is that whether you consider price or expectation (or both together) Veron does not deserve to be lumped in with this list of losers... he is in a category above them.

DiMaria - Most expensive signing at the time, and after a promising start fell out of favor - FLOP

Sanchez - our highest EVER salaried player - was a top 3 player in the PL for the previous 3 seasons - had one of two bright moments (3-2 comeback vs city) in an otherwise dismal and expensive Utd career - FLOP (and possibly the 2nd biggest flop in club history)

Jim Leighton - record English fee paid for a goalkeeper - actually cost significantly more than Peter Schmeichel - we all know how that turned out - FLOP

You mentioned Tiabi another record money signing for a keeper at the time - after a MOM start vs Liverpool at Anfield, it was all downhill and fast - FLOP

Memphis, Poborsky, Cryuff all top highly touted prospects signed after solid performances in international tournaments the previous summer and all showed us why you should never sign anyone based solely on solid performances in international tournaments the previous summer... even Klebberson arrived with top international credentials (and a world cup winners medal) - all FLOPS

Bastian Schweinsteiger - veteran arriving late in his career, past his best - but signed clearly believing he had something left to offer. Compare what he brought to the table vs other veterans who arrived at the club in their 30s (Sherringham, Zlatan, Cavani) - FLOP

And the Gold Standard of Flops
Gary Birtles - 2nd most expensive British transfer at the time, arrived with 2 European Cup medals and a league title at Forrest, England international (back when that meant something) who should have been entering the prime of his career - 0 league goals in 25 games in his 1st full season - TOTAL & UTTER FLOP
Thing is, I don’t do side the to be one of the worst signings we’ve ever made - and there’s quite a few!

but I do think you have to consider the fee and the expectation. United have very rarely gone out and bought one of the best players in the world, in their prime, who could give the club 5-6 years at the very top of his career.

I can’t think of any player who we have bought who had as much expectation as him.

in terms of expectation and what was delivered - he has one of the biggest differentials.

Sanchez is one of of worst ever buys, and a bigger flop than Veron, but you look back and the writing was already on the wall for him.

Veron should have been a signing of the Nedved, Zidane, Figo level. That’s what we thought we were getting (ignore the actual timeline, and I’m not directly comparing the players) - but you get my point.
 

Denis' cuff

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Smashing player, very controlled and measured on the ball.

It just so happened that we had the best midfield in the world at the time and tbh he was a signing that imo we didn't need to make. Our play at the time just didn't suit his style.

If he played for us now he'd be head and shoulders the best player in the team.

Be unfair to label him as a flop.
yep

that just about covers it

been done to death before, this one
 

Jericho

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I'm not even Martial's biggest fan anymore but it's crazy how people can wonder if Veron was a flop whilst chucking all the hate for a player like Martial.

It's crazy what a title win can do, it doesnt matter if you were part of it or not, if we win it keeps alot of our hungry fans happy to the point that Veron is questioned about being a flop at all. :confused:
People are probably harsher on Martial because he's been here so long. Can't imagine Fergie would have kept some of the players we've had for as long as we've had them, just giving them chance after chance for years hoping their going to come good.
 

MoskvaRed

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Interesting reading in the FourFourTwo article that he never had an issue with living in Manchester and in fact found London more challenging. Unlike with Di Maria, I always felt Veron was hugely frustrated that he couldn’t bring his best form to United.

Ultimately I think Fergie, after years of top Serie A stars being off limit, bought Veron because, finally, one was available even though we already had a top class midfield. Considering our goalkeeper and centre backs in those days, the money could have been spent better elsewhere.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Here's a very basic tip: "Flop" does not mean "shite". The former term refers to someone who has failed to live up to whatever expectations were relevant.

It's a relative term, one could add. You can be an absolute, undeniable flop at the one end - or just a slightly floppish kind of flop at the other end.

Veron was closer to floppish than an undeniable flop.

But he was a flop. Of course he was.
 

Longshanks

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He wasnt as good as we all hoped but he also wasnt as bad as alot of people make out. Had some cracking games for us especially in Europe just wasnt really suited to the PL at the time where alot of teams played fast direct physical football where the midfield was a warzone and not alot of football actually got played through midfield.

Dont think he was helped that he come in at a time we were defensively all over the place either, never had much of a settled centre back pair and Barthez was well Barthez.

He was a proper classy player but just wasnt suited really.
 

MattyB1986

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Veron was a flop. Plain and simple. I recall a few fleeting moments but when we sold him to Chelsea I remember laughing they bought him from us even if we did lose half after a year. Shame I wanted and thought he'd smash it with his hype during that generation.
 

Red For Ever

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He was one of the best players in the world ................... until he played for United, there were a few spectacular moments, but not enough to warrant a regular place.
Fergie backed him played 82 times for United with 11 goals
He left us for Chelsea at half what we paid, and was not any better there

Shame, if he had been the player he was before he came to Old Trafford, United would have challenged for even more than they did in his time here.
 

Champagne Football

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Amazing player who simply was not suited to our style of play.

It's like Man City and their obsession with possession signing someone with a horror first touch such as Lukaku, or like Luka Modric with all his vision and lack of height signing for a Sam Allardyce long ball team.

Veron was a master of playing in midfield 3 passing teams who play at a slower pace. At the time we had the 2 best box to box midfielders in Europe who ran around at 1 million/mph in every game. It was a bad fit.

We came so close but pity we never got Viera instead, as Viera would have brought us up a level, and would have landed more Champions League titles without doubt.
 

davidmichael

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I wouldn’t say Veron was a flop but he was competing with arguably the best pairing in the game at that time in Keane and Scholes whilst also having Butt around who was one of the best midfielders in the league himself, Veron simply came in as a big name and signing yet in reality was only good enough to be a squad player as we had a luxury of players in that position.
 

Irwin99

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We came so close but pity we never got Viera instead, as Viera would have brought us up a level, and would have landed more Champions League titles without doubt.
Definitely. Good luck to teams facing both Keane AND Vieira . Keane could have easily sat back and done the majority of the build up play and Vieira would have been an immense presence as a box to box. Shame it never happened.
 

atomic keane

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Great player! Total flop at United, I can remember a handful of decent games and shedload of bad performances then bad form and that was it. I wished he could have performed better but he came at the wrong time and it always felt like he wasn’t suited to that team!
 

stubie

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Veron played his best football for us in Europe. His pass for Giggs goal against Olympiakos in 2001 was delicious. Unfortunately we never got to see his European form in the Premier League after a promising start.
 
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100%.

He came here as one of the best players in the world. Touted as a turning point for United, that we could sign anyone.

The occasional nice assistc, goal, filck etc. Was not what we paid for.
 

sunama

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I wouldn't say that he flopped.
The issue was that when he arrived, we had GIggs, Scholes, Keane, Beckham as our midfield. Now this is arguably the best midfield ever assembled and he had to break into it.
He actually played pretty well, but he was expected to play like the most creative midfielder ever seen (for Lazio - I think that was his previous club - he was unbelievably brilliant in the best league in Europe....yes Italy had the best league at the time) and he failed to adapt fast enough, so he was sold on.
I actually liked Veron and felt he did a good job.

Would he get into our current side?
He'd walk into it and link up play between Bruno and Veron would've been interesting, but I wouldn't say he was a flop in the same way that Mikhitarian or Sanchez were.

BTW, how is Miki doing at Arsenal? I never hear about him and whenever we play Arsenal, Miki never plays.
 

Mockney

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The chip against Olympiakos is one of my favourite goals.... though it’s pushed down the rankings somewhat by being the beginning of the heinously unnecessary practice of wearing our away kit at home.
 

RooneyLegend

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Indeed. Very expensive, didn't live up to his reputation, sold for half price two years later.

Sure, he had his moments. Even the biggest flops do.
Normally great players from other leagues take time to adjust to the blind side pressure that is unique to the prem cause normally forwards in England work harder than those leagues, ;but eventually do adjust. What surprised me with veron was he never did.
 

Eyepopper

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Massive flop... still he was a good player, and a proper pro, just not suited to the PL, couldn't cope with the pace of the league.

I was shocked we managed to shift him to another English team for the fee we got for him.
 

DRJosh

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point taken on Andy Goram (which was tongue and cheek inclusion to be fair) and DJx2 who is an unfair and easy target.

But I would suggest Veron had significantly more "good" games for United than DiMaria and what I am ultimately saying (and prepared to back up) is that whether you consider price or expectation (or both together) Veron does not deserve to be lumped in with this list of losers... he is in a category above them.

DiMaria - Most expensive signing at the time, and after a promising start fell out of favor - FLOP

Sanchez - our highest EVER salaried player - was a top 3 player in the PL for the previous 3 seasons - had one of two bright moments (3-2 comeback vs city) in an otherwise dismal and expensive Utd career - FLOP (and possibly the 2nd biggest flop in club history)

Jim Leighton - record English fee paid for a goalkeeper - actually cost significantly more than Peter Schmeichel - we all know how that turned out - FLOP

You mentioned Tiabi another record money signing for a keeper at the time - after a MOM start vs Liverpool at Anfield, it was all downhill and fast - FLOP

Memphis, Poborsky, Cryuff all top highly touted prospects signed after solid performances in international tournaments the previous summer and all showed us why you should never sign anyone based solely on solid performances in international tournaments the previous summer... even Klebberson arrived with top international credentials (and a world cup winners medal) - all FLOPS

Bastian Schweinsteiger - veteran arriving late in his career, past his best - but signed clearly believing he had something left to offer. Compare what he brought to the table vs other veterans who arrived at the club in their 30s (Sherringham, Zlatan, Cavani) - FLOP

And the Gold Standard of Flops
Gary Birtles - 2nd most expensive British transfer at the time, arrived with 2 European Cup medals and a league title at Forrest, England international (back when that meant something) who should have been entering the prime of his career - 0 league goals in 25 games in his 1st full season - TOTAL & UTTER FLOP
Birtles was a strange one. He discovered his scoring touch in the next season with 11 goals and continued to score on his second spell with Forest, but his first season with us was horrendous for such an expensive transfer.
 

Lay

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I’m more intrigued by Kleberson. I didn’t think he was that bad for us, he used to keep the ball moving quickly but I was too young to fully digest what his role was
 

RedRonaldo

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Veron surely has shown flash of brilliance during his time here, but he just couldn’t fit well into our midfield, which was already in perfect balance with Giggs, Scholes, Keane, Beckham at that time. With him on the pitch, there’s too many Hollywood balls and less aggression, I thought it affects the balance of our play.
 

Dr Foo

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He did well for us in the Champions League, and was decent enough in our 02/03 season (Scholes had his high scoring season behind Ruud) where many thought he will kick on from there with Beckham's departure. Didn't reach his world class heights here, pity