Escobar
Shameless Musketeer
This is as far as we can go under him. Some good spells, some positive results, but mainly poor football
Let's be honest, no other club in the Premier League would take him as a manager if he was available.This exactly is why the Ole-Out Brigade are justified. The football is absolutely disgustingly bad. Teams with far less material and funds, play a much much better brand of football. Thank Ole for working out some deadwood, thank him for bringing in Bruno, Maguire, and AWB, competition for Shaw in Telles, promoting Greenwood and leading a detox in the club. But that is as far as we will get with him. Next summer we could buy one or two stars, this would be independent of Ole I believe.
We will not play a fluid, expansive brand of football under him, it looked like it when Pogba en Bruno finally united and we played some amazing football with an in-form Matic. This is however far-gone, and we aren't improving at all. You'd have to wonder which club in the Premier League top 10 would like to hire Ole if he became available, and I'm afraid that it would be absolutely none, and that does say something. Wonder if John Murtough will catch any of it though.
Let's be honest, no other club in the Premier League would take him as a manager if he was available.
#progress3 years ago we were a distant 2nd in the league and about to go out of the Champions League..
Now we’re a distant 2nd in the league and about to go out of the Europa league...
weird time frame to chose
Just curious, what extra coaches did SAF bring in in his first 2 and a half years, I’d be interested to see the coaching setup then.I find that shite so disrespectful to SAF, if i'm being honest.
SAF's greatest trait imo was his ability to identify changes in the game and adapt. Even if it was aspects of the game he came up short in, he would hire the relevant supporting cast to address those concerns
You see NONE of that with Ole, which is why its baffling to me why people are so happy to just giving him more time despite seeing nothing that suggests he will ever be able to coach this side to the required level or hire coaching staff who can instead handle the role for him
Mate come on. I’m not anti Ole but today was an awful performance. A truly shocking one in fact.Just a old ManUtd fan seeing bigger picture without hating.
Don't need to be do defend our manager.
Just curious, what extra coaches did SAF bring in in his first 2 and a half years, I’d be interested to see the coaching setup then.
No. I'm saying it was that bad that players wanted out. Both on and of the pitch
This exactly is why the Ole-Out Brigade are justified. The football is absolutely disgustingly bad. Teams with far less material and funds, play a much much better brand of football. Thank Ole for working out some deadwood, thank him for bringing in Bruno, Maguire, and AWB, competition for Shaw in Telles, promoting Greenwood and leading a detox in the club. But that is as far as we will get with him. Next summer we could buy one or two stars, this would be independent of Ole I believe.
We will not play a fluid, expansive brand of football under him, it looked like it when Pogba en Bruno finally united and we played some amazing football with an in-form Matic. This is however far-gone, and we aren't improving at all. You'd have to wonder which club in the Premier League top 10 would like to hire Ole if he became available, and I'm afraid that it would be absolutely none, and that does say something. Wonder if John Murtough will catch any of it though.
None that comes to mind, but things can be funny in context.
The game has changed, SAF was able to last in his job but was coming into a team that was not at the same starting point as Ole nor the same era. Ole rightfully has more expectation to succeed.
Should we just give Ole 5 years too? Despite the fact that no coaches get that amount of time at major clubs anymore? Just for him to struggle to play football against teams who have squads that have probably cost less than he has spent on Maguire alone?
The situations are not comparable by any means.
This board sacked LVG when they identified a manager in Jose who they thought was better. There is very clearly coaches out there who are better than Ole, some even available
Just curious, what extra coaches did SAF bring in in his first 2 and a half years, I’d be interested to see the coaching setup then.
Who?
I just wondered as you used SAF getting coaches in for different roles and used it against Ole. I agree Sir Alex changed with the times and I agree we’re in different times now.None that comes to mind, but things can be funny in context.
The game has changed, SAF was able to last in his job but was coming into a team that was not at the same starting point as Ole nor the same era. Ole rightfully has more expectation to succeed.
Should we just give Ole 5 years too? Despite the fact that no coaches get that amount of time at major clubs anymore? Just for him to struggle to play football against teams who have squads that have probably cost less than he has spent on Maguire alone?
The situations are not comparable by any means.
This board sacked LVG when they identified a manager in Jose who they thought was better. There is very clearly coaches out there who are better than Ole, some even available
Yes I know roughly but I would be interested in seeing the ins and outs in more detail of a few of the first team coaches to see where they all originally came fromI think it was Archie Know who managed Dundee United who came to United with SAF. Archie was also his assistant at Aberdeen?
I just wondered as you used SAF getting coaches in for different roles and used it against Ole. I agree Sir Alex changed with the times and I agree we’re in different times now.
I wouldn’t necessarily call McT, Matic and James individual talent. Plus Greenwood is a teenager and struggling this season. So it was just Martial for one half and Bruno in terms of attacking quality. I don’t know Milan’s players good enough to judge how they compare to McT, Matic or James. I only know that they were missing players themselves.It was shockingly noticable that Milan were so much more well drilled defensively than us. They kept a really nice, compact shape. Everyone seemed to know exactly what their role was, they had really obviously defined team pressing triggers...they just looked lightyears ahead of us tactically, despite not having as much individual talent as we do.
Agree with all this post. I’d love Ole to succeed and maybe getting a fancy foreign number 2 in could freshen things up from McKennaYou are right in that it wasn't in the same time frame as Ole, thats for sure. Times and expectations were very different then though.
We do have some examples eg. Queiroz and Rene etc.
Contrary to popular belief, I would be so open to give Ole more time if he was taking initiative with his coaching staff. I haven't wanted a manager to work as much as I do with him. At the moment, it just feels like nothing has changed whether thats the style of football or coaching staff since he has joined, though.
Agree with all this post. I’d love Ole to succeed and maybe getting a fancy foreign number 2 in could freshen things up from McKenna
I think this is the issue for most of the people who think Ole is not good enough. It is his coaching staff and the buck stops with him. If he had got top quality coaches then for sure we will play much better football. We may not win the PL but our football would be better for sure. That would be progress. Now it is not. I do not think most people here have an issue with Ole being the manager if he can get better coaching out of the players.
Maybe because the pressing is done individually, the opposite to what AC Milan did all over the match, they pressed as a team.Why are we so easy to push back?
The front players (Martial, Greenwood, Bruno) are ridiculously bad at defending. It's so easy to play through their "pressing".
Welcome @NZT-One, you look like a great addition to the forum
Agree with all this post. I’d love Ole to succeed and maybe getting a fancy foreign number 2 in could freshen things up from McKenna
Good to see you two as (right now-)representatives finding common ground after all. Even after the game tonight, having witnessed this thread for some time now, I think thats very cool.
On another note: I think, maybe the closeness of most of the current team to SAF and his methods might be part of the issue here. I feel, what Ole tries to achieve is getting the right players in so they can develope the understanding between each other themselves to flourish naturally. Without needing interference by the manager or some sort of instructions. This is very much the exact approach SAF had and he used to some success.
I think, "back in the days" that was more ore less what separated the great managers from the not so great ones: the ability to judge if a player is right for the team and what exactly is the teams need. This of course still applies until today, I often think of Real Madrid for some reason because I never have the feeling, that they are particularly well drilled but as the core of the team plays together for so long, they benefit from the same effects as a byproduct that a very systematic coaching approach would try to deploy.
In current times I think managers became more proactive - probably out of necessity: they tried to maximize the output from a squad even though they know they do not have the well assembled orchestra they would dream to have. This might have led to the focus on systems and therefor also the bigger awareness of such things in public. And this, to close the bow, leads us here together, knowing or alt least feeling that there are people in the business who are able to make teams become more than the sum of their individuals. Lets hope, that the new structure is able to adjust our outlook on things - I am sure, this would be very easy to sell to Woodward and the Glazers I mean, maximizing Return of Investment will be a familiar concept after all.
AccuratePattern of our attack in nutshell. CB or DM pass to fullbacks. Fullbacks make a run, pass to our wingers who somehow are so far wide on the pitch like the 18 yard box is lava. Either they dribble and lose the ball, or pass back to our midfielders or fb because they are too far from the goal. Rinse and repeat.
Might as well buy Bas Dost and pump cross like proper brexit fcyes because he is still stuck in the 2000s where wingers played so wide.
Because they're being coached by John Malkovich, whilst we've got Andy Serkis.Milan were missing 6, how come they had cohesion
A few quotes from the Athletic’s article today on the game last night:
“We place that definition in italics as United’s second-half performance against Milan demonstrated the pros and cons to their current tactical system; one that allows for creative interpretation in attack and demands personal responsibility in defence.”
“Solskjaer wants his United to play quick football with an attacking unit capable of changing shape at will. It’s a lofty aim requiring his creative players to be intelligent enough to spot potential goalscoring opportunities, and then brave enough to try the audacious when needed.”
“It can be hard to tell if Solskjaer allows so much interpretation from his team because he doesn’t know how to set up a more refined system or if he just doesn’t have the training time to implement one in this hectic season.”
“It is a goal that United often score — out of nothing”
You know what? I agree with everything here. Ole does not know how to set us up to attack. Pep has inverted full backs and wingers getting to the byline to set up tap-ins. Klopp has overlapping full backs getting crosses in. Poch has the positional game. Flick has inverted wingers and full-backs bombing forward, with midfielders getting into the box with Lewandowski. People who support other clubs mock us with ‘no tactics, just vibes’ and ‘Express Yourself FC’, but you what as well? They’re absolutely right. He needs to go imo. I was on the fence all season up to the Palace game, but the guy is out of his depth here.
A few quotes from the Athletic’s article today on the game last night:
“We place that definition in italics as United’s second-half performance against Milan demonstrated the pros and cons to their current tactical system; one that allows for creative interpretation in attack and demands personal responsibility in defence.”
“Solskjaer wants his United to play quick football with an attacking unit capable of changing shape at will. It’s a lofty aim requiring his creative players to be intelligent enough to spot potential goalscoring opportunities, and then brave enough to try the audacious when needed.”
“It can be hard to tell if Solskjaer allows so much interpretation from his team because he doesn’t know how to set up a more refined system or if he just doesn’t have the training time to implement one in this hectic season.”
“It is a goal that United often score — out of nothing”
You know what? I agree with everything here. Ole does not know how to set us up to attack. Pep has inverted full backs and wingers getting to the byline to set up tap-ins. Klopp has overlapping full backs getting crosses in. Poch has the positional game. Flick has inverted wingers and full-backs bombing forward, with midfielders getting into the box with Lewandowski. People who support other clubs mock us with ‘no tactics, just vibes’ and ‘Express Yourself FC’, but you what as well? They’re absolutely right. He needs to go imo. I was on the fence all season up to the Palace game, but the guy is out of his depth here.
It really is as simple as that. A lot of people like to pinpoint the blame but I'd just say that the players aren't good enough and neither is the coaching. Even if the players could be improved, there is no way for me that we couldn't play better on a more regular basisIts clear that we play very well but only against a specific way that teams set up against us, if teams sit in deep and compact then we are clueless, its been this way for ages, I'm not sure the coaching staff have what it takes to coach a pattern of play to counter this setup, as I have seen zero improvement at all against teams that play this way.