We are an awfully coached team

[saeed]

Mata and Martial never again please, that is coaching as well.

martial will play more for price drop avoiding

 

[EtH]

As it stands we're 6th for xG (behind Liverpool, City, West Ham, Everton and Chelsea) and 5th for xG conceded (behind City, Brentford, Villa and Liverpool).

But tbf that's from very few fixtures so I wouldn't put much weight on it yet. It's not a coincidence that the likes of West Ham, Everton and Brentford are showing up when they had some of the easiest fixtures so far. We'll see how we're doing in a couple of months.

Yeah that’s fair. Will be interesting to see where we are in a month or two as we have a tough run of fixtures coming up next month.

 

[OLLY ORANGE]

With two defeats in two cup competitions already and on previous short comings is just adding more fuel to the fire that Ole just doesn't have that winning mentality.
Just looks like he will always come up short.
I just don't see enough philosophy, common identity in teams or ability to make notable changes during games.
Most want and wish him to do well but ultimately we all know its going to end badly.
Pity as this squad is as good as its been for a good while but relys too much on individual brilliance rather than a well coached unit.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

With no discernible system in which to slot, it’s always going to be difficult for new / fringe players to come in unless they're one of the GOATS

 

[OLLY ORANGE]

When you watch liverpools and city second string the cohesion and style of play is the same as the first teams. ( managers imprint)
We just dont get that with our second string which is a reflection on the management .

 

[IhabX7]

When you watch liverpools and city second string the cohesion and style of play is the same as the first teams. ( managers imprint)
We just dont get that with our second string which is a reflection on the management .

We don’t get no signs of it with our first, mate.

 

[bosniamanutd]

Yes, we are.

No plan, no pattern or no style. Just a bunch of 11 individuals on the ground trying to do something.

Bringing a right back who can attack because our 50m signing cant attack. Playing Bruno deep , Rashford right, Cavani left.

Seriously WTF is happening?

like they never met before. no pressure on lost ball, particulary martial. that guy is totally uninterested.

 

[Guapa]

Love Ole to bits,good man manager but out of his depth here.He's done a good job of rebuilding and we have the best squad we have had in quite some time but they need a top coach to guide them and it's just not Ole.Step up/aside and go after 'best in class'.
Who ever that is.

 

[slyadams]

Interesting quote from Luke Moore on the Football Ramble after the West Ham loss. Something like: “something I couldn’t help noticing is that Man United just seem like a really badly coached side”.

 

[cyberman]

Interesting quote from Luke Moore on the Football Ramble after the West Ham loss. Something like: “something I couldn’t help noticing is that Man United just seem like a really badly coached side”.

I wouldn’t go looking to the football ramble for tactical insights.

 

[rron10]

Love Ole to bits,good man manager but out of his depth here.He's done a good job of rebuilding and we have the best squad we have had in quite some time but they need a top coach to guide them and it's just not Ole.Step up/aside and go after 'best in class'.
Who ever that is.

“Top coaches” had left us in the past with an unbalanced, aging squad with a lot of bad apples.
We want to go backwards or forward ?

 

[stefan92]

“Top coaches” had left us in the past with an unbalanced, aging squad with a lot of bad apples.
We want to go backwards or forward ?

There is a difference between actual top coaches and past-it big names. The question is how do you find the next top coach, not running after those who where it a decade ago?

 

[Rash Decision]

“Top coaches” had left us in the past with an unbalanced, aging squad with a lot of bad apples.
We want to go backwards or forward ?

Honestly this is a tired and illogical argument. Does this mean we should never again try for a top coach? If the next Pep or Tuchel came to us with a superb track record, we should say no because we once tried hiring a top coach or two (who were both in serious decline by then) and it didn’t work out? What makes United so unique that we are the only club in the world for whom a top coach is a bad thing?

 

[stefan92]

Honestly this is a tired and illogical argument. Does this mean we should never again try for a top coach? If the next Pep or Tuchel came to us with a superb track record, we should say no because we once tried hiring a top coach or two (who were both in serious decline by then) and it didn’t work out? What makes United so unique that we are the only club in the world for whom a top coach is a bad thing?

Just as you mention, don't sign a top coach on his decline. Sign one at his peak or on the way up to it.

 

[Pace Abuser]

“Top coaches” had left us in the past with an unbalanced, aging squad with a lot of bad apples.
We want to go backwards or forward ?

They were about as top coaches as Cantona is currently a top player.

 

[Lyng]

Just as you mention, don't sign a top coach on his decline. Sign one at his peak or on the way up to it.

The big issue is to find one that is available and would be able to work with our players.
Nagelsmann went to Bayern. Flick to the national team. Tuchel to Chelsea.
I am not convinced Ten Haag would work in United and Poch is a worse option than what we have I think.

 

[stefan92]

The big issue is to find one that is available and would be able to work with our players.
Nagelsmann went to Bayern. Flick to the national team. Tuchel to Chelsea.
I am not convinced Ten Haag would work in United and Poch is a worse option than what we have I think.

That's true, but it will always be true that managers at their peak have jobs where it is very difficult to get them from.

I also don't know who could actually improve United here.

 

[rron10]

Honestly this is a tired and illogical argument. Does this mean we should never again try for a top coach? If the next Pep or Tuchel came to us with a superb track record, we should say no because we once tried hiring a top coach or two (who were both in serious decline by then) and it didn’t work out? What makes United so unique that we are the only club in the world for whom a top coach is a bad thing?

Please name me a few top coaches that we should hire right now. Realistic ones not Peps or Klopps.

 

[slyadams]

I wouldn’t go looking to the football ramble for tactical insights.

Especially if they disagree with your position I guess?

In general I would say they’re on a par, or above, most media outlets.

 

[captaincantona]

Ole has his favourite 11 or 12 players and we have all watched them to death churn out the same slow, rigid football albeit getting results to an extent. We can hypothesise and reason the performances till the cows come home. We thought, last season at least, his unwillingness to make a sub was due to the quality of the bench. But now look- the Bench is Sancho, VDB, Lindelof, Martial...the quality of football is very similar and we don’t see anymore diversity in our line ups. We see the same team for every game that matters.

Whatever you say about Ole’s coaching...whether it’s a problem or not...surely, well coached teams are capable of replacing players without changing their style of play drastically and more importantly...without significant detriment to the quality of the performance. No matter what you say...Ole’s unwillingness to use his squad means he does not trust that the squad is good enough to implement his plans- he only trusts a set group. This is a huge indicator that the squad is not well coached.

 

[Champ]

Ole has his favourite 11 or 12 players and we have all watched them to death churn out the same slow, rigid football albeit getting results to an extent. We can hypothesise and reason the performances till the cows come home. We thought, last season at least, his unwillingness to make a sub was due to the quality of the bench. But now look- the Bench is Sancho, VDB, Lindelof, Martial...the quality of football is very similar and we don’t see anymore diversity in our line ups. We see the same team for every game that matters.

Whatever you say about Ole’s coaching...whether it’s a problem or not...surely, well coached teams are capable of replacing players without changing their style of play drastically and more importantly...without significant detriment to the quality of the performance. No matter what you say...Ole’s unwillingness to use his squad means he does not trust that the squad is good enough to implement his plans- he only trusts a set group. This is a huge indicator that the squad is not well coached.

Ole used 30 different players throughout last Premiership season - this was 5 more than City, and more than Chelsea and Liverpool.

He has also used 20 different players this season which is again more than City and only one less than Chelsea and Liverpool.

This myth of Ole not using his players needs to stop as it's inherently wrong.

Yes, Ole has his favourite starting players, every manager does, but he has shown that he can mix it up if required and when needed.

 

[anant]

There is a difference between actual top coaches and past-it big names. The question is how do you find the next top coach, not running after those who where it a decade ago?

An actual coach remains so until he becomes a past-it big name.

I think everyone was excited when we got in LVG after that WC. A lot of our fans were rooting for our opposition during LVG's 2nd season so that we can bring in another top coach in Mourinho. It's now with 20/20 hindsight that we're saying they were both past it

 

[slyadams]

The big issue is to find one that is available and would be able to work with our players.
Nagelsmann went to Bayern. Flick to the national team. Tuchel to Chelsea.
I am not convinced Ten Haag would work in United and Poch is a worse option than what we have I think.

You're mentioning coaches we could have gone for but chose not to because we wanted to stick with Ole. For what its worth Poch I think would have done a much better job, you might say he's unproven, but he's massively more proven than Ole.

Please name me a few top coaches that we should hire right now. Realistic ones not Peps or Klopps.

This can easily be turned around: do you think Ole is the best possible coach we could have right now? There is literally no coach out there better that we could attact?

 

[Ralph MIlne]

The interesting part here is that the squad is very satisfied with Ole and the coaching staff. Mind u that members of this squad have vast experience with other managers and coaching staff. We are getting better by each year under Ole. We play more attacking and entertaining. We break records. We attract the best players in the world. He is building a team and that takes time. YET, some of u would like to sack him. It's fascinating in a depressive way..

 

[Champ]

You're mentioning coaches we could have gone for but chose not to because we wanted to stick with Ole. For what its worth Poch I think would have done a much better job, you might say he's unproven, but he's massively more proven than Ole.

This can easily be turned around: do you think Ole is the best possible coach we could have right now? There is literally no coach out there better that we could attact?

How so?

 

[Fletchageddon]

How so?

Yeah, I'd love to see where they are going with this...Ole has at least won a few trophies/leagues and bettered Spurs/Poch's prem record repeatedly. And before you mention relegation Klopp got relegated when he was starting out too. So that is no indicator to quality of coach.

 

[Lyng]

You're mentioning coaches we could have gone for but chose not to because we wanted to stick with Ole. For what its worth Poch I think would have done a much better job, you might say he's unproven, but he's massively more proven than Ole.

This can easily be turned around: do you think Ole is the best possible coach we could have right now? There is literally no coach out there better that we could attact?

What exactly has Poch proven?

I don't think we can attract those that are better right now no. If you can think of one please do tell.

 

[slyadams]

How so?

What exactly has Poch proven?

I don't think we can attract those that are better right now no. If you can think of one please do tell.

In the PL Ole's experience was taking Cardiff down, Poch took Spurs to a series of 2nd and 3rd place finishes and a CL runner up place with a squad containing a fraction of the talent Ole has. Ole's level was managing in the Norweigan league and Poch was given the PSG job. The two are different levels when it comes to coaching. If Ole left United, do you think Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve, Inter, PSG etc. would be sniffing around? Whether you like it or not Ole is objectively nowhere near the standard of the United job and outside of United fans, its not even a controversial statement.

In the PL alone Rodgers is a miles better coach than Ole. He'd never get offered the United job, but that wasn't the question.

 

[Bilbo]

In the PL Ole's experience was taking Cardiff down, Poch took Spurs to a series of 2nd and 3rd place finishes and a CL runner up place with a squad containing a fraction of the talent Ole has. Ole's level was managing in the Norweigan league and Poch was given the PSG job. The two are different levels when it comes to coaching. If Ole left United, do you think Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve, Inter, PSG etc. would be sniffing around? Whether you like it or not Ole is objectively nowhere near the standard of the United job and outside of United fans, its not even a controversial statement.

In the PL alone Rodgers is a miles better coach than Ole. He'd never get offered the United job, but that wasn't the question.

The only criteria that needs to be considered when it comes to whether Ole is 'objectively nowhere near the standard of the United job' is how he has performed in this job. Anything that happened before is irrelevant.

Have a closer look at Rodgers European record across his career before you make too many claims about his ability level. You might be surprised.

 

[Lyng]

In the PL Ole's experience was taking Cardiff down, Poch took Spurs to a series of 2nd and 3rd place finishes and a CL runner up place with a squad containing a fraction of the talent Ole has. Ole's level was managing in the Norweigan league and Poch was given the PSG job. The two are different levels when it comes to coaching. If Ole left United, do you think Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve, Inter, PSG etc. would be sniffing around? Whether you like it or not Ole is objectively nowhere near the standard of the United job and outside of United fans, its not even a controversial statement.

In the PL alone Rodgers is a miles better coach than Ole. He'd never get offered the United job, but that wasn't the question.

Exactly. Poch hasn't won anything either.

 

[slyadams]

Exactly. Poch hasn't won anything either.

If winning something of note qualifies a manager then by your own standards Ole is completely unqualified.

 

[Champ]

In the PL Ole's experience was taking Cardiff down, Poch took Spurs to a series of 2nd and 3rd place finishes and a CL runner up place with a squad containing a fraction of the talent Ole has. Ole's level was managing in the Norweigan league and Poch was given the PSG job. The two are different levels when it comes to coaching. If Ole left United, do you think Barca, Real, Bayern, Juve, Inter, PSG etc. would be sniffing around? Whether you like it or not Ole is objectively nowhere near the standard of the United job and outside of United fans, its not even a controversial statement.

In the PL alone Rodgers is a miles better coach than Ole. He'd never get offered the United job, but that wasn't the question.

I merely asked how you believe Poch to be more 'proven', i never said it was a controversial statement - the fact that you deem it to be suggests you believe it probably is.

They both started their careers at similar times, Ole at United academy, Poch at Espanyol, they have both taken control of premiership teams, and now both are in control of two of the biggest clubs in Europe - although with Ole you could say the world. Both hvae got through to European finals (and lost), both have finished in the top four of the Premiership.

You are talking at cross purposes here, you are claiming Poch is BETTER than Ole, not more 'proven'. Ole has won trophies, Poch hasn't, a simplistic answer maybe but it's the truth.

Also, many on here are claiming that the issue with Ole is he only gets so far in terms of winning trophies, and chokes when we get a chance, that also sums Poch up in a nutshell.

You seem to be another who wants to have their cake and eat it in regards to trying to claim Ole is a poor coach or United are a poorly coached team.

 

[Lyng]

If winning something of note qualifies a manager then by your own standards Ole is completely unqualified.

I think Ole has done a great job rebuilding the team and adding United spirit back in to the team.
I do however do think that's as far as he will be able to take us.
My issue is that, if we get a new manager he needs to move us to the next level AND not destroy the teamspirit and mentality that Ole has brought in.
I am not convinced Poch can handle Ronaldo.

I think Hansi Flick would be the perfect signing but I don't see how we can get him?

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

We all talk about Cardiff like its an established club with means.

but lets be honest : its a weak team with no money to invest or spend and a very limited budget .

Not a lot of managers would have a success of making them stay in the league and we're talking on here as if they aren't go down to the championship and come up to the PL every few years.

 

[HailtotheKing]

An actual coach remains so until he becomes a past-it big name.

I think everyone was excited when we got in LVG after that WC. A lot of our fans were rooting for our opposition during LVG's 2nd season so that we can bring in another top coach in Mourinho. It's now with 20/20 hindsight that we're saying they were both past it

I think it was more in hope than anything else. Most of us knew Mourinho was past it. Had he come straight after Fergie he'd have probably won the lot. But coming after LVG who has a totally different football philosophy was asking a lot. And it was also rather stupid of our management and evidence of why we need a proper Director of Football so that we don't have to dismantle our squad every time a new manager comes in who plays different. But ultimately, we wanted anyone but Louis so welcomed Mourinho with open arms just to take us away from the snoreball.

 

[slyadams]

We all talk about Cardiff like its an established club with means.

but lets be honest : its a weak team with no money to invest or spend and a very limited budget .

Not a lot of managers would have a success of making them stay in the league and we're talking on here as if they aren't go down to the championship and come up to the PL every few years.

I'm not saying this is all Ole should be judged by, but we seem to be operating with double standards. Ole takes a limited Cardiff team down, "that's OK". Poch takes a spurs squad to 2nd and CL runner up, and its "well, he's not won anything".

 

[Amarsdd]

I'm not saying this is all Ole should be judged by, but we seem to be operating with double standards. Ole takes a limited Cardiff team down, "that's OK". Poch takes a spurs squad to 2nd and CL runner up, and its "well, he's not won anything".

that's quite an understatement considering the state of that team.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Ole has done a great job and we now have a really good squad. I'm not sure he's the man to take us to the next level, but I think before we replace him we should first look at hiring better coaches. It baffles me that as a relative novice, he was happy to have Carrick, Phelan, and McKenna, who are all similar to him (with the exception of Phelan who's not even doing the coaching). He needs someone that covers his weaknesses. And right now it seems like he has a bunch of yes men who value team togetherness more than actual tactics. That may sound harsh but it's hard to think any different when you see how we play and our decision-making on and off the field. Let's get a great coach in and then see how Ole does.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Doubt Ole would get a prem job if he was fired and that's saying a lot.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Ole has done a great job and we now have a really good squad. I'm not sure he's the man to take us to the next level, but I think before we replace him we should first look at hiring better coaches. It baffles me that as a relative novice, he was happy to have Carrick, Phelan, and McKenna, who are all similar to him (with the exception of Phelan who's not even doing the coaching). He needs someone that covers his weaknesses. And right now it seems like he has a bunch of yes men who value team togetherness more than actual tactics. That may sound harsh but it's hard to think any different when you see how we play and our decision-making on and off the field. Let's get a great coach in and then see how Ole does.

I honestly think this is the Mckenna show at training.