We're about to go on a title run, stop with the negativity

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You’d think after PSG and Chelsea that people would wait until Arsenal to post here.
Absolutely. I understand the giddiness but let's see how it goes.

We'll need 4 points from Arsenal/Everton, preferably 6, and to win away in Turkey for our season to be truly back in track.
 

CG1010

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>We are too reliant on our strikers
What am I reading?! Look at Liverpool's front 3 and the percentage of the team's goals they've scored over the last 2 seasons. Being reliant on 3 strikers isn't a negative. We also have Cavani as a back up
The point is that our front 3 are inconsistent and injury prone. That post was in the context of the game against Chelsea where missing Martial and Greenwood (not playing full 90 minutes) cost us our attacking edge. Also against RB Leipzeig all 3 were in form. But easily they could have not turned up which happens every few games in which case we would have been reliant on penalty for the goals.
 

MattyLT

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>We are too reliant on our strikers
What am I reading?! Look at Liverpool's front 3 and the percentage of the team's goals they've scored over the last 2 seasons. Being reliant on 3 strikers isn't a negative. We also have Cavani as a back up
Up next on Redcaf Gold: "We're too reliant on our goalkeeper to goalkeep!"
 

romufc

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The point is that our front 3 are inconsistent and injury prone.
Where have you got the idea they are injury prone?

Rashford has had one major injury since his debut which was his back injury last season
Martial had a hamstring last season, a groin season before, how is that injury prone
Greenwood has missed 1 game with injury.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marcus-rashford/verletzungen/spieler/258923
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/anthony-martial/verletzungen/spieler/182877
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mason-greenwood/verletzungen/spieler/532826
 

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The point is that our front 3 are inconsistent and injury prone. That post was in the context of the game against Chelsea where missing Martial and Greenwood (not playing full 90 minutes) cost us our attacking edge. Also against RB Leipzeig all 3 were in form. But easily they could have not turned up which happens every few games in which case we would have been reliant on penalty for the goals.
Are they though?

Between them they scored 44 PL goals last season. Rashford isn't going to have a back injury every season and Greenwood was only brought into the first team for the last 10 premier league games.

Liverpool's vaunted front three scored 46 goals and no one calls them inconsistent.

Added to Greenwood being first choice this season, we have Bruno popping up with a goal or assist practically every game and Cavani looks very sharp and could have had a couple already in his couple of cameos.

I think we are in a much better position in that regard compared to last year and should easily get more goals this season.

As for the over-reliance on penalties, you have to be putting the opposition under pressure, creating chances and being dangerous around the box to win them so I don't really see the fuss. It's not like it's some kind of lottery we are winning.
 

Untd55

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Arsenal seems to have the edge over Solskjaer at the moment. 3 games: 2 losses and 1 draw. This one will be a tough match; I'm hoping we stick with the same formation as 4-3-3 doesn't seem to work against Arsenal.

Hopefully, we will beat them this time.

If we can beat Arsenal, it will put us in good standing as Liverpool and City look far from unbeatable. Albeit, I still think Liverpool will win the league.
 

Dan_F

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The point is that our front 3 are inconsistent and injury prone. That post was in the context of the game against Chelsea where missing Martial and Greenwood (not playing full 90 minutes) cost us our attacking edge. Also against RB Leipzeig all 3 were in form. But easily they could have not turned up which happens every few games in which case we would have been reliant on penalty for the goals.
It was an issue last season but I do feel like we have so much more flexibility with the additions of Cavani and VDB. Imagine being Leipzig last night, chasing a winner and pushing upfield. Then you look over and see Rashford, Bruno and Cavani coming on.

We don’t even need three attackers in that sense. We can play a pair upfront with five at the back with the addition of Telles.

Not saying we’re going to win the league, as I think the mentality is too frail, but the squad is much improved on last season.
 

CG1010

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Where have you got the idea they are injury prone?

Rashford has had one major injury since his debut which was his back injury last season
Martial had a hamstring last season, a groin season before, how is that injury prone
Greenwood has missed 1 game with injury.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marcus-rashford/verletzungen/spieler/258923
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/anthony-martial/verletzungen/spieler/182877
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mason-greenwood/verletzungen/spieler/532826
Sorry I didn't mean all 3 are injury prone, you are right Rashford has had one major injury but Martial keeps having these niggles often. And its a problem when we have only 3 main goal scorers at the club. Ole has done well to change the system to try and mitigate the problem by playing only 2 of them but ideally we should have got Sancho or someone to have more depth in this area.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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I still think we're too inconsistent for a title challenge, we look a team more likely to go on a cup run or two than do the work necessary to plunder 80 points+.
 

CG1010

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Are they though?

Between them they scored 44 PL goals last season. Rashford isn't going to have a back injury every season and Greenwood was only brought into the first team for the last 10 premier league games.

Liverpool's vaunted front three scored 46 goals and no one calls them inconsistent.

Added to Greenwood being first choice this season, we have Bruno popping up with a goal or assist practically every game and Cavani looks very sharp and could have had a couple already in his couple of cameos.

I think we are in a much better position in that regard compared to last year and should easily get more goals this season.

As for the over-reliance on penalties, you have to be putting the opposition under pressure, creating chances and being dangerous around the box to win them so I don't really see the fuss. It's not like it's some kind of lottery we are winning.
Ya their performance last season was great but as you know it wasn't good enough to win the title or go anywhere near it. And Liverpool's front 3 were supported by goals all over so that they scored 20 more goals than us last season. It is in that context that I am calling them inconsistent -- they aren't consistent enough as a world class player say Ronaldo or RVN or RVP for us to be able to manage having so few goalscorers in the team. Mind you they could become such players in the future so who knows. But for a title challenge this year, that's a risk we have.

Also you misunderstood my point about penalties. I am not saying its a lottery and its due to us getting tricky players like Martial & Rashford into the box more which is why we are getting more of them. But you still are relying on the opposition to make an error to win penalties. So its not a reliable way for non-attacking 3 to score goals. Basically a very long way of saying that we either need 1/2 of our front 3 to have a god like this season (possibly Rashford) or the likes of Bruno, VDB and Pogba need to step up and score more goals for us to have any chance of winning the title.
 

romufc

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Sorry I didn't mean all 3 are injury prone, you are right Rashford has had one major injury but Martial keeps having these niggles often. And its a problem when we have only 3 main goal scorers at the club. Ole has done well to change the system to try and mitigate the problem by playing only 2 of them but ideally we should have got Sancho or someone to have more depth in this area.
Agreed, its not just injuries as well, form too. I said this yesterday, we lack another winger but what Ole did was play without wingers.

None of our players were in form, Ole dropped them and all of a sudden, players are playing for their places.

Lets look at some examples.

Maguire off form - dropped V PSG and realised the team can defend without me
Pogba off form - realised that the team can play without him
Luke Shaw - Needs competition in the LB slot, saw it last season when Williams came through, now hes got real competition
Matic - Thought he can walk into the team.
Greenwood - V Palace Ole dropped him and brought him on at half time and played V spurs didnt track but then he saw 3 games without him and no one was saying we miss Greenwood, comes back and yesterday he was tracking back, sprinting back
Bruno & Rashford - came on yesterday and were almost possessed.
 

BorisManUtd

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We're overreacting after last night just like we did after Palace or Spurs. Ole has been struggling against Arsenal in these few seasons, think we only beat them in FA cup under him yet.
 

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Ya their performance last season was great but as you know it wasn't good enough to win the title or go anywhere near it. And Liverpool's front 3 were supported by goals all over so that they scored 20 more goals than us last season. It is in that context that I am calling them inconsistent -- they aren't consistent enough as a world class player say Ronaldo or RVN or RVP for us to be able to manage having so few goalscorers in the team. Mind you they could become such players in the future so who knows. But for a title challenge this year, that's a risk we have.

Also you misunderstood my point about penalties. I am not saying its a lottery and its due to us getting tricky players like Martial & Rashford into the box more which is why we are getting more of them. But you still are relying on the opposition to make an error to win penalties. So its not a reliable way for non-attacking 3 to score goals. Basically a very long way of saying that we either need 1/2 of our front 3 to have a god like this season (possibly Rashford) or the likes of Bruno, VDB and Pogba need to step up and score more goals for us to have any chance of winning the title.
Rashford will get more goals than last season. Same for Greenwood and Bruno as they will play a lot more games.

As I said we also have Cavani, DVB and if Telles can put in corners like he has been we'll get some more there too.

However, I realise now that you were speaking in relation to mounting a title-challenge and I'd agree that it is an outside chance at this stage, for various reasons.
 

Bilbo

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I dont think that people are over-reacting. Perhaps getting slightly ahead of themselves.

What has been said in here is correct. United are probably not going to be able to collect 90+ points this season, so if that is what will be required then we will come up short. I personally don't feel that this will be the case. We've had a mediocre start to the PL season but this team are easily capable of going on a winning run that would put us in the chasing pack. Then we have a title run on our hands
 

Pav1878

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Title challenges are about quality, mentality and momentum.

I feel we have the quality, and at times have shown we have mentality, but we need to be more consistent with that.

And I feel we are building momentum, but the next three games or so are key. If we can get seven to nine points from arsenal, Everton and city, that momentum will grow and grow.

At least we have a team to be excited about again and get behind. This season could be a bit of a roller coaster.
 

EdinburghDevil

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Agreed, its not just injuries as well, form too. I said this yesterday, we lack another winger but what Ole did was play without wingers.

None of our players were in form, Ole dropped them and all of a sudden, players are playing for their places.

Lets look at some examples.

Maguire off form - dropped V PSG and realised the team can defend without me
Pogba off form - realised that the team can play without him
Luke Shaw - Needs competition in the LB slot, saw it last season when Williams came through, now hes got real competition
Matic - Thought he can walk into the team.
Greenwood - V Palace Ole dropped him and brought him on at half time and played V spurs didnt track but then he saw 3 games without him and no one was saying we miss Greenwood, comes back and yesterday he was tracking back, sprinting back
Bruno & Rashford - came on yesterday and were almost possessed.
Agree with this. Also De Gea seems to have stepped up his performances with the real threat of Henderson ready to step in.

Squad still a few players short of being real title contenders, but with the nature of this season, it's there for anyone of 5 or 6 teams for the taking.
 

romufc

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Agree with this. Also De Gea seems to have stepped up his performances with the real threat of Henderson ready to step in.

Squad still a few players short of being real title contenders, but with the nature of this season, it's there for anyone of 5 or 6 teams for the taking.
Well, if we can put together a run of 8/10 wins in a row, anything can happen. However; draws is not going to help us, we need to build real momentum if we want to achieve anything.

Hopefully, teams take points off Liverpool and City so they do not run away with it, giving other teams hope.
 

RashyForPM

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We're overreacting after last night just like we did after Palace or Spurs. Ole has been struggling against Arsenal in these few seasons, think we only beat them in FA cup under him yet.
2-0, March 2019:

De Gea
Young Smalling Lindelof Shaw
Matic
Fred Pogba
Dalot Lukaku Rashford

Bench options: Martial

1-1, October 2019:

De Gea
Young Lindelof Maguire Tuanzebe
McT Pogba
Pereira Lingard James
Rashford

Bench options: Greenwood, Mata

2-0, January 20:

De Gea
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Fred Matic
James Lingard Rashford
Martial

Bench options: Greenwood, Mata

Likely team on Sunday:

De Gea
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Fred Matic
Greenwood Bruno Pogba
Rashford

Bench options: VdB, Mata, Cavani

So, to top off having a far better team now than we did in the previous 3 games against Arsenal, we have more bench options. Meanwhile, Arsenal have regressed badly. We should win. I’m confident.
 

Volumiza

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At least we have a team to be excited about again and get behind.
This is the best bit for me. It's the first time it's actually felt like a team since SAF left. The rest is just gravy for me. Yes, I want us to win things but more importantly I just want to enjoy being a Utd fan again and having a team you can get behind is so important to that.

Ole deserves so much credit for assembling this squad.
 

CG1010

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Agreed, its not just injuries as well, form too. I said this yesterday, we lack another winger but what Ole did was play without wingers.

None of our players were in form, Ole dropped them and all of a sudden, players are playing for their places.

Lets look at some examples.

Maguire off form - dropped V PSG and realised the team can defend without me
Pogba off form - realised that the team can play without him
Luke Shaw - Needs competition in the LB slot, saw it last season when Williams came through, now hes got real competition
Matic - Thought he can walk into the team.
Greenwood - V Palace Ole dropped him and brought him on at half time and played V spurs didnt track but then he saw 3 games without him and no one was saying we miss Greenwood, comes back and yesterday he was tracking back, sprinting back
Bruno & Rashford - came on yesterday and were almost possessed.
Yeah, that's a great point. We are getting closer to having 2 good players in each position.. atleast we have that for the midfield and full backs. If Tunazebe comes good, then that's competition for Maguire and Lindelof too. Only the front 3 don't have much squad depth, except for Cavani and the two kids. Who knows how well will they come on.
 

romufc

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Yeah, that's a great point. We are getting closer to having 2 good players in each position.. atleast we have that for the midfield and full backs. If Tunazebe comes good, then that's competition for Maguire and Lindelof too. Only the front 3 don't have much squad depth, except for Cavani and the two kids. Who knows how well will they come on.
Yep, I agree we do not know yet how the kids will come up, so we cannot really include them in the first team squad.

If we play 2 upfront then I think we have cover, 4 players for 2 positions.
 

Pav1878

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This is the best bit for me. It's the first time it's actually felt like a team since SAF left. The rest is just gravy for me. Yes, I want us to win things but more importantly I just want to enjoy being a Utd fan again and having a team you can get behind is so important to that.

Ole deserves so much credit for assembling this squad.
Totally. Actually looking forward to games now instead of fearing the worst each time. Ole deserves a lot of credit. Just hope we can kick on now and make that step towards challenging for the major honours.
 

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Liverpool are not going to be as good as last season for various and good reasons.
City are far from the side they were with Kompany as capt.
Its there for us if we get things together.
I would not even think it a month ago. I believe it now.
 

Cnaiür urs Skiötha

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Sorry but we cannot seriously be talking about a title challenge?
Liverpool and City might get around 85 points, if we can get 80 and finish third in front of Chelsea and Spurs while playing some decent football that would be great.
This plus getting into the last 8 in the CL would mean progress and a good basis for the next season.
 

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Sorry but we cannot seriously be talking about a title challenge?
Liverpool and City might get around 85 points, if we can get 80 and finish third in front of Chelsea and Spurs while playing some decent football that would be great.
This plus getting into the last 8 in the CL would mean progress and a good basis for the next season.
I mean if we finish 5 points behind it would have been a title challenge, wouldn’t it? We’d still be in it with two games left
 

patty123

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No this isn't a wumming thread. Last season this squad showed their mettle through getting top 4. People overreact to a few games. We are about to show everyone who the feck we are.
You MIGHT want to sent giggs the memo as he seems to think it could be 15-20 yrs before we win the league again. Now that might be him, still throwing his toys out of tthe pram like he has the last few days over not getting the job when Jose was sacked, seems very bitter also that ex players are getting these top jobs nowadays.
 

MancFanFromManc

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It was always gonna be a weird season, and there have already been some crazy results. Everton and Villa lighting the way, what the hell is that about?!? I reckon it will come down to which manager helps players deal with the lack of fans the best. The way Ole fine tunes his tactics for each opposition gives me hope that he could be "the" man. When our fixtures came out I genuinely thought we had a chance to get some early points on the board, so I was furious how poor we were in those opening games. Now though, we're looking sharp and fit, and adding several players gives us a real chance. Early days, but why the hell not!

In the words of Simba "Remember who you are" (not sure where that came from?!?)
 

Eriku

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It was always gonna be a weird season, and there have already been some crazy results. Everton and Villa lighting the way, what the hell is that about?!? I reckon it will come down to which manager helps players deal with the lack of fans the best. The way Ole fine tunes his tactics for each opposition gives me hope that he could be "the" man. When our fixtures came out I genuinely thought we had a chance to get some early points on the board, so I was furious how poor we were in those opening games. Now though, we're looking sharp and fit, and adding several players gives us a real chance. Early days, but why the hell not!

In the words of Simba "Remember who you are" (not sure where that came from?!?)
I remember in the Treble season Aston Villa spent new years ahead of us in 2nd place. People extrapolating the title race from early results has always baffled me, crunch time is in the second half of the season.
 

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"Free your mind and your ass will follow"

With that firmly in mind, put your house/flat/cardboard box on United winning the title this season.

The OP will reimburse you should the players fail to deliver so you're covered either way.
 

Pace Abuser

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Is it delusion or just blind optimistm like that of a dog to believe Ole is going to take us anywhere?
 

Sandikan

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Is it delusion or just blind optimistm like that of a dog to believe Ole is going to take us anywhere?
He'll go down in history as leaving a better squad than he inherited, but it still needs a lot of work.
 

Remember the geese

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In regards to the op, I felt a bit of optimism recently too. Perhaps not to the extent of anticipating a title challenge, but I believed that we had turned a bit of a corner and that our poor start was mainly down to a lack of match fitness. However, Chelsea and now Arsenal have come with a clear plan, made things difficult for us and we had no answers at all.
 

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Yet another false dawn. People never learn.