Westminster Politics

[Maticmaker]

Farage goes there every day. The more he shouts , the more people come.

Has anybody told him that less than 0.5% of immigrants come by small boats?

Spot on Paul that is exactly Farage's plan for leveraging in discontented Tory votes.

He knows that those arriving in small boats are a small part of both legal and illegal immigration, but it is (at least to the majority of the public) the 'high-viz', part. Farage also knows a Conservative government would never consider opening up legal routes, for fear of being snowed under with application's from all those (0.5%) who are currently paying around 3,000 Euro's to arrive by boat and they would also likely be accompanied probably by at least a million more, who cannot afford 3,000 euro's. Hence those (still in) the Tory government that took such a decision, would risk being 'tarred-and-feathered' by the faithful on the Tory right.

Our Nigel knows exactly where and when to press the Tory panic button, as he has demonstrated many times before, the Tories were running scared of him them, and now they no longer have the 'buffoon in waiting' (guess who) to turn to, to rescue them, with an 'oven ready Brexit'.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Don’t taxpayers basically pay for the infrastructure anyway? My understanding was the private sector mostly just operates the services and takes a profit, with minimal responsibility for the actual infrastructure.

The government owns the tracks and other infrastructure, and so has to pay for the upkeep, they also charge the operators for using the network. The contracts to be an operator are also tendered by the government.
Theoretically they could just let the contracts run down and buy the engine stock (Loco's carriages etc), it would still cost billions, and a lot of the stock is way past it's best before date (nearly 20yrs old), and needs replacing,

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Spot on Paul that is exactly Farage's plan for leveraging in discontented Tory votes.

He knows that those arriving in small boats are a small part of both legal and illegal immigration, but it is (at least to the majority of the public) the 'high-viz', part. Farage also knows a Conservative government would never consider opening up legal routes, for fear of being snowed under with application's from all those (0.5%) who are currently paying around 3,000 Euro's to arrive by boat and they would also likely be accompanied probably by at least a million more, who cannot afford 3,000 euro's. Hence those (still in) the Tory government that took such a decision, would risk being 'tarred-and-feathered' by the faithful on the Tory right.

Our Nigel knows exactly where and when to press the Tory panic button, as he has demonstrated many times before, the Tories were running scared of him them, and now they no longer have the 'buffoon in waiting' (guess who) to turn to, to rescue them, with an 'oven ready Brexit'.

None of them really want the boats to stop, it's a weapon they use to rile up and distract the public from other matters. It could be solved very quickly if they wanted to. Not Rwanda obviously, which unless the government are completely insane will never happen.

How Farage has lasted so long is very strange. Born liar and obvious charlatan but still keeps on being fed to the British public by the media.
Any decent journalism should destroy him, any decent politician of a different view should destroy him but he survives. Because the politicians are so weak and the journalism pathetic for the most part.

 

[Matt Varnish]

None of them really want the boats to stop, it's a weapon they use to rile up and distract the public from other matters. It could be solved very quickly if they wanted to. Not Rwanda obviously, which unless the government are completely insane will never happen.

How Farage has lasted so long is very strange. Born liar and obvious charlatan but still keeps on being fed to the British public by the media.
Any decent journalism should destroy him, any decent politician of a different view should destroy him but he survives. Because the politicians are so weak and the journalism pathetic for the most part.

How?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

How?

Legal routes. It's amazing how quickly they managed to deal with the Ukranian refugees, because it was good propaganda.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Legal routes. It's amazing how quickly they managed to deal with the Ukranian refugees, because it was good propaganda.

There are legal routes, in all airports and seaports for people that want to claim asylum.
Ukranians were given a fast track because they had been cleared for asylum in other neighbouring countries like Poland. I worked with a charity that helped them get food and clothes once they reached here.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

There are legal routes, in all airports and seaports for people that want to claim asylum.
Ukranians were given a fast track because they had been cleared for asylum in other neighbouring countries like Poland. I worked with a charity that helped them get food and clothes once they reached here.

Please not this again, there aren't. So if a refugee goes up to the British passport control at Calais they're going to treat his asylum claim and let him through?

 

[Matt Varnish]

Please not this again, there aren't. So if a refugee goes up to the British passport control at Calais they're going to treat his asylum claim and let him through?

I've never had to show my passport to leave a country, ticket yes, passport no, and I travel a fair bit
Asylum is claimed at the border control of the country you are entering, not leaving.
You are confusing the legal route with the controls that are supposed to have been set up for those in camps.

 

[mitChley]

I've never had to show my passport to leave a country, ticket yes, passport no, and I travel a fair bit
Asylum is claimed at the border control of the country you are entering, not leaving.
You are confusing the legal route with the controls that are supposed to have been set up for those in camps.

I have to show my passport before boarding the plane in the UK on every single flight.

Edit: removed a bit as can't be arsed getting into an argument

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I've never had to show my passport to leave a country, ticket yes, passport no, and I travel a fair bit
Asylum is claimed at the border control of the country you are entering, not leaving.
You are confusing the legal route with the controls that are supposed to have been set up for those in camps.

It's not illegal to leave a country. The British border control is in Calais, not in Dover. The French one is in Dover not Calais.
If you enter the EU after October you're going to be in for a shock. That's for you to discover later this year.

For the Ukranian refugees that came through France, they were turned away at the ports and told to go to the British embassy in Paris.

How do refugees get on a plane. To get a ticket you need to quote a passport or ID card number and I've usually had to show a passport and I've travelled far more than I really wanted to.
The refugees are transported to the coast and put on a small boat, they're not controlled by anyone. Only those that are intercepted which is approximately 50%

 

[Matt Varnish]

I have to show my passport before boarding the plane in the UK on every single flight.

Edit: removed a bit as can't be arsed getting into an argument

Neither can I

 

[Matt Varnish]

It's not illegal to leave a country. The British border control is in Calais, not in Dover. The French one is in Dover not Calais.
If you enter the EU after October you're going to be in for a shock. That's for you to discover later this year.

For the Ukranian refugees that came through France, they were turned away at the ports and told to go to the British embassy in Paris.

How do refugees get on a plane. To get a ticket you need to quote a passport or ID card number and I've usually had to show a passport and I've travelled far more than I really wanted to.
The refugees are transported to the coast and put on a small boat, they're not controlled by anyone. Only those that are intercepted which is approximately 50%

So, how did these people get into France or the EU without a passport, ID or a ticket?
Asking because I genuinely don't know.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So, how did these people get into France or the EU without a passport, ID or a ticket?
Asking because I genuinely don't know.

Smuggled. Before Brexit they used to try to get into lorries but as the lorries are supposed to be checked now (little do they know that the UK still haven't really started checking). In cars in lorries all different methods, I presume. They could come across the Med, lots of different ways. Some want to go to the UK because of different reasons, language, family, whatever. If British embassies would accept them in any safe country this would solve a great deal. France offered to let the British set up a centre for processing in Calais. The British government refused. Britain take very few in comparison with other European countries but the government use them as a weapon.

 

[4bars]

I've never had to show my passport to leave a country, ticket yes, passport no, and I travel a fair bit
Asylum is claimed at the border control of the country you are entering, not leaving.
You are confusing the legal route with the controls that are supposed to have been set up for those in camps.

What are you talking about? You have to show a form of identification ALWAYS to leave a country and if it is outside the EU if you are in the EU, has to be a passport (I guess exceptions within other organizations like the EU passport is not needed)

 

[11101]

I have to show my passport before boarding the plane in the UK on every single flight.

Edit: removed a bit as can't be arsed getting into an argument

Not strictly related to the asylum discussion but that passport check is not because of immigration controls on leaving a country, its because the airlines dont want to get fined if they deliver you to a country's border without the proper paperwork.

 

[4bars]

Not strictly related to the asylum discussion but that passport check is not because of immigration controls on leaving a country, its because the airlines dont want to get fined if they deliver you to a country's border without the proper paperwork.

And that is why you need the passport. It doesn't mean that the government requires. But try to fly without a passport to a foreign country and you will find out quickly enough. Or visa, or ESTA, etc... if required

 

[Buster15]

Tbf the majority of it probably belongs to those who inherited great wealth from their parents because inequality is rife. But yes, the people who would get clobbered would almost certainly not be those people.

I understand that.
A lot is made of inherited wealth.
My point is that the people who had that so called wealth would have paid tax at whatever rate was required during their lives.
And having paid taxes that were due, it would be up to them what they chose to do with their money.
And if most of their so called wealth was in their house, then they would have paid Council Tax for it.
And those who inherited that money would have had to pay IHT should it be due
And in the case of a house or houses being the subject of the inheritance and were then sold for whatever reason, CGT would have been due.

So my point is that after we have been taxed and taxed and taxed, it is up to the individual to decide what they want to do with their money.

 

[Mart1974]

There are legal routes, in all airports and seaports for people that want to claim asylum.
Ukranians were given a fast track because they had been cleared for asylum in other neighbouring countries like Poland. I worked with a charity that helped them get food and clothes once they reached here.

You are full of sh1t. I travelled today from Calais to Folkestone. Had to show my passport to French Passport control and UK passport control on French side.

 

[Matt Varnish]

You probably looked a bit dodgy

 

[Mart1974]

You probably looked a bit dodgy

Me and everyone else coming through at the same time?

 

[Matt Varnish]

You are full of sh1t. I travelled today from Calais to Folkestone. Had to show my passport to French Passport control and UK passport control on French side.

Me and everyone else coming through at the same time?

I's been known

 

[TwoSheds]

I understand that.
A lot is made of inherited wealth.
My point is that the people who had that so called wealth would have paid tax at whatever rate was required during their lives.
And having paid taxes that were due, it would be up to them what they chose to do with their money.
And if most of their so called wealth was in their house, then they would have paid Council Tax for it.
And those who inherited that money would have had to pay IHT should it be due
And in the case of a house or houses being the subject of the inheritance and were then sold for whatever reason, CGT would have been due.

So my point is that after we have been taxed and taxed and taxed, it is up to the individual to decide what they want to do with their money.

But that's my point. You might have been taxed and taxed and taxed. But the Duke of Westminster hasn't. And he is probably (literally) 10,000 times richer than you. Which is proof he hasn't been taxed and taxed and taxed.

 

[Matt Varnish]

But that's my point. You might have been taxed and taxed and taxed. But the Duke of Westminster hasn't. And he is probably (literally) 10,000 times richer than you. Which is proof he hasn't been taxed and taxed and taxed.

Fact check says he does
https://www.grosvenor.com/about-us/how-we-work/tax-policy/the-facts-about-our-ownership#:~:text=Grosvenor family members are all,entitled to the same exemptions.

 

[Zen86]

The government owns the tracks and other infrastructure, and so has to pay for the upkeep, they also charge the operators for using the network. The contracts to be an operator are also tendered by the government.
Theoretically they could just let the contracts run down and buy the engine stock (Loco's carriages etc), it would still cost billions, and a lot of the stock is way past it's best before date (nearly 20yrs old), and needs replacing,

From what I gathered, they’re just not going to renew the service contracts. The rail providers are terrible anyway. Nothing more than a middle man taking profits.

 

[Matt Varnish]

From what I gathered, they’re just not going to renew the service contracts. The rail providers are terrible anyway. Nothing more than a middle man taking profits.

The Tories were looking at a conceesion arrangement, but I think that has been scrapped

 

[Mart1974]

I's been known

Like I said, you are full of sh1t. You could, of course, retract your earlier position with a mea culpa, but you choosing to keep going. You do realise people can read your responses?

 

[Matt Varnish]

Like I said, you are full of sh1t. You could, of course, retract your earlier position with a mea culpa, but you choosing to keep going. You do realise people can read your responses?

I don't know you.
You do not know me
You do not know anything about me, but I can assure you I have entered this country, and others without having to show a passport going through border control
Just take a moment from your busy life, and consider who would be able to do that?

 

[TwoSheds]

Fact check says he does
https://www.grosvenor.com/about-us/how-we-work/tax-policy/the-facts-about-our-ownership#:~:text=Grosvenor family members are all,entitled to the same exemptions.

Does what? Pay his fair share of taxes? How do you explain the fact he's a multi-billionaire? If he pays 6% every 10 years that means he only needs to earn a profit of 0.75% above inflation every year on his assets in order to break even. Does that sound difficult for a multi-billionaire to you?

 

[Matt Varnish]

Does what? Pay his fair share of taxes? How do you explain the fact he's a multi-billionaire? If he pays 6% every 10 years that means he only needs to earn a profit of 0.75% above inflation every year on his assets in order to break even. Does that sound difficult for a multi-billionaire to you?

It's not his fault he came from a different pair of legs to you.
Like you he pays tax
I'm not saying I agree with it, but as the law stands he pays whats due, which is totally different to your original claim that he pays none.

If you want to direct your anger of tax evasion, it would be better directed toward off shore corporations like Amazon, who last year got a tax rebate

 

[TwoSheds]

It's not his fault he came from a different pair of legs to you.
Like you he pays tax
I'm not saying I agree with it, but as the law stands he pays whats due, which is totally different to your original claim that he pays none.

If you want to direct your anger of tax evasion, it would be better directed toward off shore corporations like Amazon, who last year got a tax rebate

I didn't say he pays none, I said he doesn't pay his fair share, I couldn't give a feck what the rules are. I'd happily slag off Amazon too but that would have feck all to do with inheritance tax tbf because Amazon isn't a person.

In case you were wondering, in the last 20 years, the FTSE has increased on average by about 2.8% above inflation annually. So his not paying inheritance tax up front would earn him more than 2% a year on average just by sticking it in a tracker and doing nothing. 2% per year is about £20m for him. And he probably earns far more than that in reality because he's rich.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I don't know you.
You do not know me
You do not know anything about me, but I can assure you I have entered this country, and others without having to show a passport going through border control
Just take a moment from your busy life, and consider who would be able to do that?

Since the UK left the EU , if you leave or enter the EU you should have your British passport stamped to prove that you have not overstayed your 90 day out of 180 day visa

In October the new EES is due to be put in place , it's been delayed one year already, so that the data of anyone entering or exiting the Schengen area is put in the system. The first time when it is put into place you will be fingerprinted and photographed and your data will be put into the system. This lasts 3 years and then has to be renewed.

 

[Matt Varnish]

I didn't say he pays none, I said he doesn't pay his fair share, I couldn't give a feck what the rules are. I'd happily slag off Amazon too but that would have feck all to do with inheritance tax tbf because Amazon isn't a person.

In case you were wondering, in the last 20 years, the FTSE has increased on average by about 2.8% above inflation annually. So his not paying inheritance tax up front would earn him more than 2% a year on average just by sticking it in a tracker and doing nothing. 2% per year is about £20m for him. And he probably earns far more than that in reality because he's rich.

The FTSE is open to anyone to speculate on it, many people do without knowing, if you have a pension or insurance policy then any profits on it are most likely made from investments on the FTSE.
You can also invest directly by buying shares, it's open to all.
The more money you have, the better the people you can pay to tell you how to avoid paying taxes and finding loopholes, again it's open to all
Your beef to me appears to be that he is rich and you are not, a situation you can change, my son makes 25k a year investing in crypto, you could too.................so why don;t you?

The Duke of Westminster has done nothing illegal, speking as some one who has lost his father, I can almost guarantee he would pay whatever he could in taxes, if it would bring his father back.

I run a business, my accountant tells me how to avoid paying tax, points out all the loopholes, I don;t pay any income tax, my business has never paid corporation tax, I get a VAT rebate almost every quarter.
Just like the Duke of Westminster I pay my profits into a trust for my sons and their children, so they wont pay inheritance tax when I go
So I guess you dislike me too

 

[TwoSheds]

The FTSE is open to anyone to speculate on it, many people do without knowing, if you have a pension or insurance policy then any profits on it are most likely made from investments on the FTSE.
You can also invest directly by buying shares, it's open to all.
The more money you have, the better the people you can pay to tell you how to avoid paying taxes and finding loopholes, again it's open to all
Your beef to me appears to be that he is rich and you are not, a situation you can change, my son makes 25k a year investing in crypto, you could too.................so why don;t you?

The Duke of Westminster has done nothing illegal, speking as some one who has lost his father, I can almost guarantee he would pay whatever he could in taxes, if it would bring his father back.

I run a business, my accountant tells me how to avoid paying tax, points out all the loopholes, I don;t pay any income tax, my business has never paid corporation tax, I get a VAT rebate almost every quarter.
Just like the Duke of Westminster I pay my profits into a trust for my sons and their children, so they wont pay inheritance tax when I go
So I guess you dislike me too

Yeah you sound like a complete cockwomble tbf. Maybe you're a lovely chap though. Either way you don't pay your fair share and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[TheGame]

Tweet

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[Paul the Wolf]

Tweet

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You'd really confuse him if you told him there were two Congos.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Yeah you sound like a complete cockwomble tbf. Maybe you're a lovely chap though. Either way you don't pay your fair share and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Cockwomble ...really?
I paid my fair share for many years.
Then I found when I reached retirement age I couldn't afford it, I had to carry on working, so I started my own business, my son put me in touch with his accountant.
If it were not for him, I would be at home every day living on a pension and drawing exra benefits, what is better for me and the country, avoiding a bit of tax, or being a burden by drawing more benefits?

 

[4bars]

I don't know you.
You do not know me
You do not know anything about me, but I can assure you I have entered this country, and others without having to show a passport going through border control
Just take a moment from your busy life, and consider who would be able to do that?

Well, if you did this congratulations but you are a special case (whichever). Normal situations for normal people requires to show the passport at border controls.

So if you have/had a special treatment for whichever reason, don't be disingenuous commenting like it is the norm. 99.9% of the people has to do it. Any exception doesn't worth discussion if we are discussing the norm

 

[Matt Varnish]

Well, if you did this congratulations but you are a special case (whichever). Normal situations for normal people requires to show the passport at border controls.

So if you have/had a special treatment for whichever reason, don't be disingenuous commenting like it is the norm. 99.9% of the people has to do it. Any exception doesn't worth discussion if we are discussing the norm

I aapologise for any offence

 

[TwoSheds]

Cockwomble ...really?
I paid my fair share for many years.
Then I found when I reached retirement age I couldn't afford it, I had to carry on working, so I started my own business, my son put me in touch with his accountant.
If it were not for him, I would be at home every day living on a pension and drawing exra benefits, what is better for me and the country, avoiding a bit of tax, or being a burden by drawing more benefits?

So your business earns you enough to be able to put wealth away for your son in a trust but not enough to be able to pay tax...

Definite Maticmaker alt login.

 

[4bars]

I aapologise for any offence

Not offence, you are not honest, so that is what is telling of who you are