Here! Here!
"We've caught up 8-9 points before"
- Thread starter Brwned
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It was only a couple of weeks ago that some of the muppets on here were pulling down Mourinho’s trousers because he walked around pointing three fingers towards the Juventus supporters.
He looked like a right wanker and I said as much then. It was really funny to some people, apparently.
He behaved like a self-serving, attention-seeking twat throughout his entire time here. That it’s taken so long for this to be recognised is staggering.
He looked like a right wanker and I said as much then. It was really funny to some people, apparently.
He behaved like a self-serving, attention-seeking twat throughout his entire time here. That it’s taken so long for this to be recognised is staggering.
8 points in half a season is surmountable. Especially when one of teams is Arsenal.
I actually think leapfrogging Tottenham (10 points ahead) might be doable with a bit of luck.
I actually think leapfrogging Tottenham (10 points ahead) might be doable with a bit of luck.
Honestly, Ole doesnt have to be the next Pep or Klopp. If he sets up with an attacking mentality, can keep the players on his side and has this attitude constantly, but isn't completely naive in his approach tactically (I.e., we dont get battered by every big side because of naive tactics), then I'm okay with him getting the job. He understands what the club needs, and with the right balance of support around him like Phelan to help out with the defensive shape and balance, and a director of football in for transfers, theres no reason why it cant work out long term. That's what's required at this club. Just because he lacks this big experience doesnt mean he shouldnt get it, if he does all the right things then itd be dumb not to keep him on for longer.
I'd settle for beating City and Liverpool and losing to Spurs. (And getting top4, CL and FA Cup)
I do not think 8 points are that difficult to catch up in this 3 and half months. It also depends on our home games against Liverpool and Chelsea and City of course and our away game against Arsenal.
I did not see this interview. What an insult to this great club. He should have been sacked on the spot simply for this interview alone.
Agree on deliberate and wise, I’ve been really impressed with him so far with the media.
At very first it came across as just as a very happy, friendly guy excited to land his dream job but you can see from the repeated messages he’s putting out there that he knows exactly what’s Jose did wrong where the players and fans are concerned he’s calculated exactly what message he needs to get across to change things for the better in a short space of time.
1. Get our best player back onside
2. Say the squad is strong (which it is)
3. Think about how we play rather than the opposition
4. Rebuild the confidence of the defence
That’s not to say I think he’s being disingenuous - he comes across as actually believing everything he says, which is fair enough cos most of it is true despite the picture Mourinho tried to paint to save his own public image.
I always thought Ole’s baby faced assassin moniker was just down to his on pitch performances but seeing his handling of the media so far makes me think it’s more than that - he’s totally disarming with his jovial manner but you can totally see the cogs whirring when they try and catch him out with awkward questions.
Nah, that was hilarious.
Sometimes the best way to manage really talented professionals is to show them the target and then get out of their way.
Well when you put it like that...
Different tastes.
Funny was the time Shelvey took a pop at Ferguson, who just stood there and laughed at him. Or even the time Van Gaal fell to the floor on the touchline. It wasn’t about demeaning the club or trying to put themselves on a pedestal above it.
I guess when you look deeper into the gesture you gain an understanding of his motives. However, in isolation, I thought he wound Juventus up quite well and it was funny.
Seconded.
Problem is that if you start comparing Ole's quotes to very early Mourinho there's not a lot of difference:
And then again, even when things went wrong early doors, he responded how you might expect Ole to:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mourinhos-apology.423042/
Hell, in those early days I remember the widely held belief that Mourinho had gotten us playing properly again too:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/its...er-united-again-return-to-meritocracy.422139/
(Or, "Woke up this morning feeling fine/ Got Manchester United on my mind/ Jose's got us playing the way United should (oh yeah)/ Something tells me I'm into something good).
Or, hell, do you not remember your own thread where you claimed that Mourinho had 'won over your heart'?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mou...d-conquered-their-heads.434223/#post-21797150
And as recently as a year ago people were pretty happy with the idea that he might sign a five year contract:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jos...l-at-old-trafford.433068/page-3#post-21588635 (And you can find me in that thread making the opposite version of the same point before I get accused of being a Mourinho apologist)
It was only when the wheels started falling off that Mourinho's quotes changed, and although I'm sure you're right that would never happen under Solskjaer, it's a ridiculously dishonest criticism of the past few years to put towards Solskjaer's quotes of the past week as the direct antithesis of everything that went before him.
The problem is that people jump far too quickly from one extreme to the other (people genuinely seem to be championing Solskjaer as a permanent manager based on one game against possibly the worst quality side in the league, for example) just as they argued that Mourinho's lack of 'gameplan' was the cure to the cursed 'philosophy' of Van Gaal, and how Van Gaal's keep ball was the cure to Moyes's whatever the feck he was trying to do.
I think Solskjaer's a great appointment for what he is, and I've enjoyed the breath of fresh air that's been around the club since he came in and I'm positive about us going forward, but lets keep things in perspective. It's not the first (and probably won't be the last time) we've managed to convince ourselves that we've cured what ails us, and it's ended in tears the last two.
A McCarthyist purging of the fanbase in pursuit of ideological pureness after yesterday seems not only ill-advised, but premature in the extreme. I'm sure we all felt things about the last three years which may turn out to be untrue, and I'm sure we will all have been right about certain things too. Solskjaer saying nice things about the club doesn't, to me, get us any closer to working out what the other problems besides Mourinho are.
Nothing wrong with that it was funny in the context of our win.
I find the dick swinging hillarious at the moment. Every time a manager is sacked it happens where those who hated everything try and pat themselves on the back and point score over anyone who debated pros and cons. Whatever makes people happy i guess
The man is just a nonsense.
He could relegate us and I'd still love him.
He could relegate us and I'd still love him.
I’m happy that the club isn’t in a state of perpetual negativity. You must be, too?
We could lose by five on Boxing Day and I’ll still be looking forward to the next game. That’s a feeling not felt for a very long time.
We aren't chasing one club, we are chasing two.
I'm over the moon after yesterday but i largely forget about a manager as soon as they're out the door.
I come on here for debate but arguments about the past tend to be competition and that's the worst of this place. I'm avoiding certain threads for my own sanity
The real question is what would Ole do under pressure? I mean right now there's almost zero expectation for Ole, top 4 is out of his hand, all he can do is pray other teams feck up for the rest of the season and we do whatever we can. United should always do its best but no one going to put blame on Ole if he doesn't make it.
It would be different story if he was here from the start and everyone expected us to pick up results. Which that being said, United under Fergie was always about mentality we weren't built on possesion or pragmatic football and Ole knows it. Those are right things to say, it's expected from our Legend who "get" the club.
It would be different story if he was here from the start and everyone expected us to pick up results. Which that being said, United under Fergie was always about mentality we weren't built on possesion or pragmatic football and Ole knows it. Those are right things to say, it's expected from our Legend who "get" the club.
This league is topsy turvy enough for catching both Arsenal and Chelsea to be eminently possible.
So just to clarify, the point I was making from this thread isn't the point you've interpreted. My main point was that Solskjaer's quote in the title itself is a really special thing - it's something only a past player who has a genuine attachment to the club would say off the cuff. It's what we've done before - simple, but it carries a real meaning.
Mourinho at no point said something similar, because he didn't have the legitimacy to do so. The only context he could use "we" in was the Manchester United team he managed. Instead he often reverted to "I", because that's how he sees most things. Ole is talking about "we" in a much broader sense, which illustrates how he can only ever see himself as smaller than the club. Contrasted against Mourinho's most ridiculous moment when he outlined most explicitly that he did not think the club was bigger than him, it's a particularly nice moment.
Mourinho said some nice things and what he said against Sevilla was the lowest of the low. But he did say a number of times that he was bigger than the club, in so many words. Which meant he obviously occasionally thought it - I think he always did, personally. Ole clearly would never think that. That's very refreshing, and something to cherish.
So the dishonest criticism is more a misinterpretation than anything else. The criticism is honest, but it's secondary - this thread was supposed to be about how special it is to have someone like Ole in this position. Naturally people would rather vent about Mourinho though.
Both of the above are involved in Europa league which is also a gateway to champions league, it might be a factor come February.
We surely have the quality to go on a run from here with the attacking tactics we saw yesterday. Couple of big wins like yesterday and you can catch arsenal on goal difference as well.
We surely have the quality to go on a run from here with the attacking tactics we saw yesterday. Couple of big wins like yesterday and you can catch arsenal on goal difference as well.
I wasn't responding to your point at all, which is why my reply makes little sense if you interpret it as one. I don't think what Solskjaer has said is anything particularly more than just what you would expect a very nice man who cares a lot about the club to say, but I don't think it's a controversial enough point to be worth discussing, really; I'm not sure your read of them is that far away from what I think, and I agree it's been nice (after the recent toxicity especially) to hear the manager saying it.
What I take issue with is posters like Twigg, whose own opinion on Mourinho self evidently fluctuated, digging out posters (like you, actually) for not calling Mourinho out on being toxic years before the toxicity actually started here based upon a complete re-write of what Mourinho was actually like in those early days as our manager. It was Twigg, not you, I was calling out for dishonest criticism.
I do think there's a cautionary tale in there about becoming infatuated with a manager based on nice things they say in the press to start with, but I'm certainly not criticising you for it, because I've spent most of the morning watching Ole's press conference and am buzzing as much as anyone for the next game.
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Indeed. Though since they spent every waking moment on this forum making sure their opinions and despise for a man was clearly known to all, they deserve to flaunt it, I guess?
I find it even more hilarious that we've now got Ole (love the man, one of my first United heroes as a teen), a 5-1 thumping and positive vibes in the club, but we still have an 80-page long thread about Mourinho the devil incarnate on the front page. And almost every discussion still revolves around Mourinho.
5-1 win? Mourinho wouldn't have won.
Solskjaer has a good presser. Mourinho is a soul-sucking prick.
We went through the same BS with Moyes (probably justified), LVG and even during Giggsy's short 4-game stint.
Can't buy this sort of entertainment. Some of these people need to move on and get a life.
The fact you have changed your opinion or whatever for me is a good thing. Being able to change your opinion should never be used as a stick to beat someone if they got it wrong in the first place - anyone can make mistakes.
For me the issue is when people hold on to an opinion in the face of all evidence flying to the contrary out of bias or don’t want to be seen as wrong. Then I get feisty.
So I may have been combative with you initially - not I really recall any significant pro Jose agenda from yourself in the slightest but it is irrelevant now and you’re happy as I am to get behind this new era - that’s the main thing.
Even guys like Ivaldo or Haram - I couldn’t give a shit if they were Jose fan boys - as long as they get behind the club and we all move on together - that is all that matters. Life’s too short to be mentioning hey you remember when you got it wrong long time ago and you are now changing your opinion haha. It’s different if you were still being pro Jose or making digs at the current regime. You aren’t so end of discussion.
It's only been one game but I couldn't help starting with the mental gymnastics about how it might be possible for us the get top 4 i.e. we still have to play both teams so if we win those games it's only a 5 point gap which is only 1 more than the current gap between City and Liverpool and you don't see them giving up etc.
It's daft and highly unrealistic but it also shows the impact he's already had on my thinking which I'd like to think would be similar to the effect it's had on players and staff at the club too. Of course it's nigh impossible task but just the fact we're even thinking about it as a remote possibility is nice and if we get a few favourable results over christmas it'll only add fuel to the fire; they say it's the hope that kills you.
It's daft and highly unrealistic but it also shows the impact he's already had on my thinking which I'd like to think would be similar to the effect it's had on players and staff at the club too. Of course it's nigh impossible task but just the fact we're even thinking about it as a remote possibility is nice and if we get a few favourable results over christmas it'll only add fuel to the fire; they say it's the hope that kills you.
It's good to be positive. But let's take it one game at a time. No need to worry about top 4 right now. I'm just going to enjoy the good football we are playing and hopefully continue to play throughout this season.
Much as I think it's great to see such positivity, I do think we need to be careful not to get too over-excited. Ultimately he'll be here for half a season, in a position where he's basically guaranteed to improve on our previous manager, and wherein we'll be able to play expressively without too much pressure, because we're not really expected to do anything significant.
Much as the circumstances are slightly different, I'm reminded of Liverpool in 10-11. They had a club legend returning after sacking a disastrous manager beforehand, and for the remainder of that season everything looked brilliant - Liverpool improved and it was assumed they'd be back in the mix for a top four spot the following season. But cracks soon started to show and they finished 8th the next year.
An improvement of form would be superb, and the football we're playing is already ridiculously better than anything we've seen for years, but whether it'll last or not remains debatable.
Much as the circumstances are slightly different, I'm reminded of Liverpool in 10-11. They had a club legend returning after sacking a disastrous manager beforehand, and for the remainder of that season everything looked brilliant - Liverpool improved and it was assumed they'd be back in the mix for a top four spot the following season. But cracks soon started to show and they finished 8th the next year.
An improvement of form would be superb, and the football we're playing is already ridiculously better than anything we've seen for years, but whether it'll last or not remains debatable.
Yes, this is ultimately the biggest problem we're facing. Even if, say, Chelsea fall apart and become easier to catch, we're relying on Arsenal doing the same.
It's obviously fun to speculate we'll get top four and any fan is going to hold hope while it's still possible, but football fans vastly overestimate the number of times comebacks are made from difficult positions because they focus on the rare occasions when it does happen. It's all well and good to say that we'll maybe half the gap if we go on a good run of form, but that's being ignorant of the fact that we'll likely have one or two of our own sticky patches between now and the end of the season. Naturally. Like any team.
We'll improve massively, but to get top four we essentially need to be producing title-contending (or winning, in most seasons) form from now until the end of the season. And for as much as it's clear we have players who are far better than they seemed under Mourinho, I remain doubtful as to whether they're of that standard.
I’ve had my pants down in this thread to be fair.
At least you've admitted it.
I was happy when we appointed Mourinho. I was very, very wrong.
Apparently (to some of his fellators) he behaves no different to Ferguson.
It would be a great achievement if he could overcome this deficit. The league is so competitive now more than ever.
If he could haul us to the CL places at this moment, he should get the job permanently!
One game at a time, and if we keep up the work rate and winning, maybe we'll get lucky.
If he could haul us to the CL places at this moment, he should get the job permanently!
One game at a time, and if we keep up the work rate and winning, maybe we'll get lucky.
Feels great looking forward and clearing your weekend schedule to watch us play.
Ugh, I just had a look at Liverpool's 10/11 season and was reminded that Dirk Kuyt scored a hattrick against us. Thanks Cheese.
As far as top 4 goes, we have so many games left. All we nee is to close the gap with 8 games left and anything can happen in that period.
We have a run of 9 games which are all winnable with spurs away being the toughest.
Top 4 is doable and will be done.
Top 4 is doable and will be done.
Aye. Not that I'm not happy with the last few days, but we've been there before. We also had similar stuff from Moyes early on. I also remember people being very happy with Van Gaal's demeanor when he just started and how different it is in comparison to Moyes. Then we had the same with Mourinho after LVG became negative.
All our managers in recent years said the right things. Until things started to go wrong.