Just like Moyes..
What’s the reasons for keeping Ole?
- Thread starter Rafaeldagold
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
There’s literally no logical reason to keep him.
He’s been terrible since getting appointed and he should’ve been sacked after that embarrassment against Everton and ESPECIALLY Huddersfield and Cardiff.
When Mourinho was there, the manager took all the blame. Don’t go changing your tune now.
The frustrating thing is.. Conte and Allegri were RIGHT THERE. But nah... let’s keep this Glazer Puppet till he inevitably gets sacked mid-season, when we’re sitting below 10th with a bunch of Championship players like James and Longstaff playing for us. Who do we get then? Everyone will be taken. I bet they’ll try Nicky Butt next. Or Michael Carrick.
ARGH... this is the worst time ever to be a United fan. I feel exactly the same as I did when Moyes was here. We just don’t fecking learn.
He’s been terrible since getting appointed and he should’ve been sacked after that embarrassment against Everton and ESPECIALLY Huddersfield and Cardiff.
When Mourinho was there, the manager took all the blame. Don’t go changing your tune now.
The frustrating thing is.. Conte and Allegri were RIGHT THERE. But nah... let’s keep this Glazer Puppet till he inevitably gets sacked mid-season, when we’re sitting below 10th with a bunch of Championship players like James and Longstaff playing for us. Who do we get then? Everyone will be taken. I bet they’ll try Nicky Butt next. Or Michael Carrick.
ARGH... this is the worst time ever to be a United fan. I feel exactly the same as I did when Moyes was here. We just don’t fecking learn.
@Olly Gunnar Solskjær defend yourself
Problem is that people think there is a quick fix. Just shows how little they know about football.
There is no quick fix. Cause its to many players that have contracts that was made before his time just like the extension of young Jones and smalling wasn't his. Cause he was just the caretaker then.
People want deadwood out but its not so easy when no one wants to buy them and all players in United will have to take a big wage cut to leav so this will take many seasons. Its quite a. Messed up squad with players from SAF, Gaal, Moyes and Mourhinio.
To those who think that getting Pochettio who would cost half this years transfer budget would suddenly take united into the top is braindead.
Zidane is looked at like a super coach. He did not manage to go upp with Madrids reserves and his team had the best players. Then he take over Real Madrid wich had top players in every spot and he could buy some aswell. Even I could have won with that team if I was the manager.
Will be interesting to see now when several of the players is on a decline. No Ronaldo who could win matches alone. Think people will see. Now that he's no top coach.
Klopp built a good team in Dortmund but he also wrecked it after some seasons.
Van Gaal has trained many top teams did not help much.
Pep had less experience than Solskjaer when he became head coach in Barcelona.
Moyes got the United job cause he kept Everton stabile right behind the top teams for many seasons with small funds.
Pochettio has never ever won anything and all his teams shows relegation form at the end of each season.
You people talk like you know what Solskjaer is about you fecking plastic fans don't know shit.
You keep arresting him on his Cardiff job. Guess what no manager could save them from relegation. Not with how Vincent Tan was being crazy. SAF warned Solskjaer about taking that job he only did it cause he hoped a miracle could happend cause he wanted to lead united one day.
But the club had mostly championship standard and it lacked good players in all areas. It was a lost cause from the start.
In Molde he did great and played fantastic football.
So really you don't know Jack shit about his ability.
What I do know is that the fanbase of United is almost as rotten as the team. You live in the old era. Well guess what wake the feck up you ain't the greatest club anymore. And if it's one thing now that is important it is to have a manager that cares. And that has a plan just like SAF had when people wanted to fire him. United is a 3 year job minimum to fix and if you don't start fixing and go on with the big names it will take 30 years like last time for united to be greatness.
Is also many good fans but also so many plastic fans.
Yes I agree Pochettio has done well to get to the finals. But people think that every player and any manager wants to train united.
The way things has been the past 6 years or so I think alot of players and managers don't want go to united cause of the mess. And Pochettio dreams about real Madrid going to united and fail there could risk his future. Spurs is better and more professional than united is in all areas.
There is no quick fix. Cause its to many players that have contracts that was made before his time just like the extension of young Jones and smalling wasn't his. Cause he was just the caretaker then.
People want deadwood out but its not so easy when no one wants to buy them and all players in United will have to take a big wage cut to leav so this will take many seasons. Its quite a. Messed up squad with players from SAF, Gaal, Moyes and Mourhinio.
To those who think that getting Pochettio who would cost half this years transfer budget would suddenly take united into the top is braindead.
Zidane is looked at like a super coach. He did not manage to go upp with Madrids reserves and his team had the best players. Then he take over Real Madrid wich had top players in every spot and he could buy some aswell. Even I could have won with that team if I was the manager.
Will be interesting to see now when several of the players is on a decline. No Ronaldo who could win matches alone. Think people will see. Now that he's no top coach.
Klopp built a good team in Dortmund but he also wrecked it after some seasons.
Van Gaal has trained many top teams did not help much.
Pep had less experience than Solskjaer when he became head coach in Barcelona.
Moyes got the United job cause he kept Everton stabile right behind the top teams for many seasons with small funds.
Pochettio has never ever won anything and all his teams shows relegation form at the end of each season.
You people talk like you know what Solskjaer is about you fecking plastic fans don't know shit.
You keep arresting him on his Cardiff job. Guess what no manager could save them from relegation. Not with how Vincent Tan was being crazy. SAF warned Solskjaer about taking that job he only did it cause he hoped a miracle could happend cause he wanted to lead united one day.
But the club had mostly championship standard and it lacked good players in all areas. It was a lost cause from the start.
In Molde he did great and played fantastic football.
So really you don't know Jack shit about his ability.
What I do know is that the fanbase of United is almost as rotten as the team. You live in the old era. Well guess what wake the feck up you ain't the greatest club anymore. And if it's one thing now that is important it is to have a manager that cares. And that has a plan just like SAF had when people wanted to fire him. United is a 3 year job minimum to fix and if you don't start fixing and go on with the big names it will take 30 years like last time for united to be greatness.
Is also many good fans but also so many plastic fans.
Yes I agree Pochettio has done well to get to the finals. But people think that every player and any manager wants to train united.
The way things has been the past 6 years or so I think alot of players and managers don't want go to united cause of the mess. And Pochettio dreams about real Madrid going to united and fail there could risk his future. Spurs is better and more professional than united is in all areas.
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Welcome to RedCafe Incey
Good post. Only thing I would say is that Pochettino getting to the CL final is a great achievement and we shouldn't discredit that. My view is that regardless of whoever United picked to be manager, the rebuild would take multiple years and in a best case scenario would lead to a title challenge at the year 3 mark. The lack of quality is not just in our squad but also the internet fan base it must be said. Not the sharpest bunch but that's ok, we should be inclusive of all types in a free world.
You usually fire a manager after he's failed... not before he really gets started.
I was referring more to the success of the team
Many ‘modern fans’ would be running to the dark side if they had to face relegation or years in the European wilderness due to the qualifying for European tournaments.
On the business side I really could not agree with you more.
Whilst I am reading threads with titles like:
Reasons to keep Ole
How about he has not had a decking fair crack yet?
Next week it will be ‘ Why do the tea ladies at OT not wear red? ‘
Looking at Celtic, they offered Lennon a rolling 12 month contract after winning the domestic treble. Why did we not offer this Ole instead of giving him a 3 year contract when he's proved nothing so far?
Rubbish we maintained possession well the majority of that season, we also controlled teams easily by having the midfield dictate the tempo. We got 90 points that season, you cannot attain that points tally simply playing counter attacking football. The counter attack was a tactical option it wasn't something that defined 90% of our play like we have witnessed under Solskjaer.
I think his point is, why didn't you post this when he was given the contract, which was during or near the end of the winning run? I mean, this topic has been done to death in the past couple of weeks. Did you just wake up one morning and suddenly felt compelled to start this debate again?
We were counter attacking side, against the bigger stronger sides and pretty much every game in Europe we set up to catch teams on the break... and we could. Yeah maybe against the weaker teams we controlled teams more but that was because those weaker teams would not come to us with Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Giggs, Nani etc.
We also had the players for it. You look at the 2008 squad vs the 2019 squad, it's weaker in every position (apart from in goal).
Klopp did not get Liverpool playing like they do in his first season (finished 8th) Pep needed a season with City before they got going.. not to mention was it 7/8 games they went without a win at one point?.
That’s a good point, however I think Woodward’s rep is on the line with this appointment also. He can’t go through 5 failed managers and still be secure in his role however much he has made the glazers surely.
Yank companies are ruthless
Hopefully you don't apply this method if you ever need heart surgery.
Got to admit i'm not optimistic at all but he deserves a full year and a transfer window or two and there were some good signs before the PSG second leg.
There is a slightly uncomfortable feeling around appointing a club legend though as you're emotionally attached to them which can cloud rationality. If he'd been anyone unconnected to the club and had gone on the same run of bad results I don't think anyone would have been shocked if he'd been sacked after the Cardiff game. That ending to the season was hideous.
There is a slightly uncomfortable feeling around appointing a club legend though as you're emotionally attached to them which can cloud rationality. If he'd been anyone unconnected to the club and had gone on the same run of bad results I don't think anyone would have been shocked if he'd been sacked after the Cardiff game. That ending to the season was hideous.
I find amusing that the "sack Ole, get top manager" crew suggest names like Conte (who, apart from already having a job, was sacked from Chelsea about a year ago for pretty much the same reasons Mourinho was sacked) or Allegri (who just lost to this very same team in the "toxic" era). You know, if you want a top manager Mourinho is still available, why not?
I'm with the "The problem is bigger than the manager" crew. The urgent issues are building a team that males sense and a club that has a functional structure in order to make decisions concerning football. Hold Ole (even in December FFS, at least let the next coach get a proper transfer season and some to work before threads like these start), get a DoF, start building a squad for the future that you can actually hold and then, just then, start with the top transfers and top managers. IMHO.
I'm with the "The problem is bigger than the manager" crew. The urgent issues are building a team that males sense and a club that has a functional structure in order to make decisions concerning football. Hold Ole (even in December FFS, at least let the next coach get a proper transfer season and some to work before threads like these start), get a DoF, start building a squad for the future that you can actually hold and then, just then, start with the top transfers and top managers. IMHO.
Ole is the only manager we've seen since Fergie left actually play the football we want for more than one game in a row.
To me that points to him being the only that knows a) that's how we need to play and b) perhaps what kind of players we need to do it.
To me that points to him being the only that knows a) that's how we need to play and b) perhaps what kind of players we need to do it.
You think we haven't had a manager playing the style we want for more than one game in a row before Ole? Really?
Ermm when then? Multiple turning point threads during slightly good patches (mostly consisting of one actually good game and a few not terrible games), none of which were as good as what Ole gave us.
And no other manager demonstrated that they have a clue what the team needs, whereas Ole and his staff have. Whether they can get it is another question, but it's a start at least.
We had a couple of months under Jose last season where we were scoring 4 goals in a few games. It was very SAF like, in that we weren't always attacking full pelt but we would put them away against tiring legs and comfortably cruise to victory. There was even a thread at the time asking if we were that good or if it was a false dawn.
Ole had a solid 2-3 months and then the team went shite again. Worth noting his purple patch had piss league fixtures bar Tottenham (which we deserved to lose 3 or 4-1 in!)
We didn't play particularly amazing in a lot of those games, aside from about 20 minutes. The goals were great n all, but that's not really the point here. I don't think we really played how we want to watch us play in most of them.
The main point wasn't this anyway. It was that Ole seems to get it more than any of the others and demonstrated it. Like I say, achieving it long term is a different matter, as is whether we can get the players we want, but in my opinion it's more promising and at least worth seeing.
That Mourinho-run was Mkhitaryan-like: Look shit for most of the game, but conjure up a couple of moments of brilliance to make people think you're better than you actually are.
If I had to bet on it I would put my money on Ole not lasting the full season. Hope I'm wrong.
Hoping to be our zidane.
It is not a method, but will take notice.
No, the equivalent of that would have been to get someone like Klopp who can just tear down an entire team and build a much better one from scratch without financial doping.
Hiring Ole is the equivalent of desperately longing for the past. He’s to us what Dalglish was to Liverpool in 2012. Minus Dalglish’s actual coaching pedigree.
For keeping him? Firing him now could easily put off other prospective managers. It makes the club look like an even bigger joke if you fire him. Finally, you still don't know how well he's going to do with some of his own players in.
Not knowing whether someone is going to be a success could be a reason not to hire someone, but it's certainly not a good reason to fire them when they already have the job.
Not knowing whether someone is going to be a success could be a reason not to hire someone, but it's certainly not a good reason to fire them when they already have the job.
But he’s regressed in performance & results since coming in & even when we were winning it was mainly against easy opposition & it wasn’t great football with any form of a style being developed..We won a lot of games we shouldn’t have where other teams actually bossed possession against us even at home..!
Coaching pedigree also can also get you LVG and Mourinho...
These are all valid concerns.
The issue is that even if we brought in the best manager in the World, the DoF would veto some of the things he wants to do and prevent us from competing for the biggest trophies. Woodward wants top 4 - that's it and he wants to do the bare minimum to achieve that.
So, regardless of whether we have Ole or someone better, the result will not be good. While Woodward is the DoF, we need to get used to finishing 4th-7th place.
I say, let's see what happens. Most likely Ole will be fired at some point during the season and the next managerial appointment may usher in a new structure (above the manager). This season though, my gut tells me we will finish lower. I hope I'm wrong.
I don't think any of the reasons are because I think he's a top class manager, and the man I want in charge of United long term, but he might just be the manager to switch the constant focus from our players and manager when things go wrong, firmly back to our owners and puppet boy Woodward when the inevitable happens.
Mourinho got us 2nd place. The highest league placing since SAF retired.
LVG bored us, though he did win us the FA Cup.
I realise that you expect better, but our standard is that of a mid table team, lower than Spurs and Arsenal. That's our level.
Both of them won trophies!
It's a shame that LVG couldn't identify the right kind of attacking player that we needed, and relied too much on a declining my-captain-shall-always-play-Rooney.
Mourinho had decent results before he fell out with everyone and threw his toys out of the pram, after not being backed.
I'm pretty sure results would had been better and the dressing room culture would had improved if he had been allowed more power with regards to selling players.
I doubt that Ole will be better than them, but let's wait, hope and see.
I'm not really seeing any positive attacking football from Ole yet, but in fairness to him at least he's behaving in a more mature and stable way than Mourinho.
From an entertainment point of view, I loved LVGs press conferences. I also liked how we outplayed other strong teams, something we haven't done for a long time.
I wasn't a big fan of hiring Ole in the first place in the caretaker role. I also wasn't a big fan of giving him the full job so early.
However to be fair to him, he had us playing good stuff until the injuries hit us. Not only quite good in an attacking sense, but playing with a higher press and working harder which got us back on the ball and on the front foot. More of a 'modern' style that gave us better results on the field and better for supporters to watch. Once the injuries destroyed us we never got going again, and we also noticeably changed style back to something more similar to how Mourinho had us playing.
That brings us to what is ultimately the biggest question. Why did we change back to that style? Was it because the original boost was an outlier and Ole simply wasn't able to maintain it despite him trying to? Or was it a deliberate change made because of all the injuries, with the belief that after two and a half years of Jose-ball the players simply weren't conditioned enough to properly play the style that Ole wants. If it's the latter, I would certainly expect that after six months with Ole and then a full pre-season, we'd see us move full-time over to something closer to a style like we played when he first joined. I still expect it to take another 12 months before it's fully 100% integrated, but the change next season should still be very noticeable.
However to be fair to him, he had us playing good stuff until the injuries hit us. Not only quite good in an attacking sense, but playing with a higher press and working harder which got us back on the ball and on the front foot. More of a 'modern' style that gave us better results on the field and better for supporters to watch. Once the injuries destroyed us we never got going again, and we also noticeably changed style back to something more similar to how Mourinho had us playing.
That brings us to what is ultimately the biggest question. Why did we change back to that style? Was it because the original boost was an outlier and Ole simply wasn't able to maintain it despite him trying to? Or was it a deliberate change made because of all the injuries, with the belief that after two and a half years of Jose-ball the players simply weren't conditioned enough to properly play the style that Ole wants. If it's the latter, I would certainly expect that after six months with Ole and then a full pre-season, we'd see us move full-time over to something closer to a style like we played when he first joined. I still expect it to take another 12 months before it's fully 100% integrated, but the change next season should still be very noticeable.
I'm going to go over this tired debate, but Mourinho was 100% backed (to the tune of almost 400M). We will have to agree to disagree. Mourinho won 2 trophies nobody cares about.
19 points off of 1st. Not even close to a title challenge, when he said the team was equipped to challenge for a title that summer.