croadyman
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Controlling/progressive CM younger than Eriksen
Yeah that Chelsea game should have been the point where penny droppedIt goes back even as far as the Chelsea game, we dominated the opening 30 mins and then they took, I think Cucurella of, and brought on Kovacic, and we lost the control we had in the game. As someone else mentioned, the experience we have, can come at the expense of energy, especially in the 2nd half. Another of our strengths is how quick we are in transition, when it works it so effective, but we know that Rashford and Bruno can both cough up possession a lot of the times as well.
Did Pep sub in Gundagon when City was 2-1 down? Get real. All have similar problem, just in different position.Get able back ups.
City would have subbed in Gundagon, Foden, Philips, Alvarez.
30 is slap bang in the middle of their "Prime".It’s the flip side consequence of recruiting an excellent and experienced midfield in Eriksen and Casemiro. You gain composure and control but lose that bit of energy and stamina. Both have been completely and utterly overplayed due to the limitations of Our back up and the integral part each one plays in how we approach games.
Both are 30 and neither were high energy players in their prime. The premiere league is high high tempo with less technical sides compensating with super fit and high intensity players. Neither should be playing for 90 minutes twice a week but that’s what we are asking of them. That’s why this summer window is important. That’s why the patience of the fans is important. We can see what ETH can do with the right materials. New owner, support the gaffer, get in the right deputies. Give our two wonderful midfielders a deserved rest…then watch us control games for 90 minutes.
It’s exciting - but the manager needs backing.
More good midfielders mate its not rocket surgery.It was obvious for some time before the goal that we were starting to flag and in serious need of a fix to the constant turnovers of possession in midfield. Understandably, ten Hag doesn't trust our bench and would rather leave the starters on until they're on fumes. That works some of the time, but at others, it looks like a failing of the manager when in reality, you can't legislate for the chasm in quality between our starting midfield and the bench options who may or may not simply make everything worse with their disparate ability.
Taking Casemiro off yesterday (or not starting him as some thought should have been the case) turns the midfield upside down. Even if his passing or retention drops a little, his positioning and innate ability to read and stuff out danger is not only top percentile in the world; it's the bar for others to meet. It's important in this discussion because there is no alternative in our squad to him. McTominay's ball-watching and unawareness when it comes to both positioning and preempting danger are arguably his worse traits, so not only do you go from the literal best in the world at these things, you drop below average in them when he isn't on the pitch. Allied to that, the competence in terms of short-passing and general nerve under pressure simply has no
recourse from our bench - fresh legs aren't more important than the ability to pass and use the ball, especially so if those fresh legs spend a fair amount of time accounting for their own mistakes. All this to say it's not constructive or conducive to seeing out games, particularly at the point in the game where pressure is intensifying and calmer heads with both skill and composure come to the fore.
I was left scratching my head as to what we could do to remedy the problem at least ten minutes before Casemiro's card and had no real answer. There's no point in making subs that exacerbate problems, so then you have to look at other areas of the pitch - say going long, or using the flanks i.e. some way to circumvent or dilute, but then, our right wing is in shambles currently and yesterday, Rashford wasn't having a good game on the left, nor is he a player you look to for control and ball retention, so the notion of condensing the midfield didn't really have any legs. Perhaps the answer is going long to the target man, relying on him to hold up play and work it wide? This bypasses the midfield and puts the onus on the opposition to counter the focal point ahead of them, at the same time, it provides deep-ball players the opportunity to diversify with their pass selection, simply playing the ball to the most open flank as whoever from the oppo finds themselves drawn into the vacuum of helping out against the big man.
The suggestions are numerous, but to me, they're flakey at best, which is why I can understand a manager not being sold on them. In your mind, what should we do the next time such a scenario as last night's presents itself? We've a tactical and personnel conundrum as far as I can see because using the same midfield over and over again is absolutely unsustainable, but the cover we currently have are of a standard where if things fall apart, you can hardly be surprised. Before anyone says I'm slating the cover, it's more a case of acknowledging just how good Casemiro is, as well as being aware that neither Eriksen or Bruno have direct replacements with anything like the passing attributes they do. Regardless of Bruno's flippancy in possession, he still has the ability to turn games in a flash, so there's logic in him staying on the pitch. Eriksen's passing massively goes to pot when he tires, like night and day difference, but even then, an exhausted Eriksen's passing is better than what could come on, right?
The anxiety toward ten Hag being slow with subs doesn't have that much merit to me when you can understand where he's coming from with the hesitancy. He doesn't trust the cover to be cover, for the most part, but then, neither do most of the forum despite utterance to the contrary (a lot of the same people then slaughter said cover for making mistakes) so where does that leave us? How can we maintain what are clearly fantastic standards from now until the end of the season in this predicament?
Remember reading when we tried to sign him that he played in midfield sometimes for Ajax.When was last time Lisandro played in midfield ? Why is he considered as an option there by some ?
In the long term, sure, but the issue is that doesn't help us for the remainder of this season. Pretty sure we'll see no activity between now and the end of the window and then we're left fighting over four competitions with a rotation that isn't trusted and quite clearly reduces the quality of play by to a massive degree.More good midfielders mate its not rocket surgery.
Not fitness wise and when you have players who were not known for their energy in the first place, to ask them to play pretty much 180 minutes a week is going to result in what we are seeing now. Fatigue.30 is slap bang in the middle of their "Prime".
very simple, Casemiro isn't playing,so we lose his presence in the middle.Many are concerned about possibly playing McFred in there, especially considering how poor McT looked in the last game. Many are thinking out loud, since Shaw has played so well recently at central defence, maybe Martinez's physicality and his passing might negate the absence of Casemiro in central mid. You asked when was the last time Lisandro played in midfield, until 3 games or so when did Shaw ever play centre half. With a squad as thin is ours, it might come down to asking players to cover positions they normally don't play. Antony played centre forward for a period at start of 2nd half v City. Bruno's best postion is number 10, but recently he has been covering the wings when needed. ETH has shown he can be flexible in that regard.When was last time Lisandro played in midfield ? Why is he considered as an option there by some ?
He would have if Lloris didn't gift them 2 goals. OMG - what an analogy.Did Pep sub in Gundagon when City was 2-1 down? Get real. All have similar problem, just in different position.
I believe he played there in his first season at Ajax. ETH then moved him back into defence and said something along the lines of 'Martinez doesn't have the athleticism to play in midfield'. If ETH felt he struggled in that sense in the Eredivisie, I highly doubt he sees him as a good option in the Premier League.Remember reading when we tried to sign him that he played in midfield sometimes for Ajax.
That is an excellent shout! Lisandro wouldn't have the same influence forwards but he would definitely have covered the defensive side of the role.Might be a bit drastic but for last night he could've moved Shaw to CB and move Lisandro to midfield and sub on a fullback.
but we aren't buying in January. OP should have prefaced "no easy buy answers"More good midfielders mate its not rocket surgery.
Agree with this. Lack of goals (30 to City's 50) will eventually catch up with you and turn 1-0 leads into 1-1 draws.I’m of the opinion that it’s more to do with our profligate finishing (our performance against xG is the worst in the top 9) and not-quite-there-yet chance creation (closer to Brighton than Arsenal, City and Liverpool).
If for example, we’d scored the second our play deserved in the first half against Fulham, the second half is much easier to manage. At 0-1 or 0-0, opposing teams take more risk than at 2-0; conceding a goal at 2-0 breaks the opponent making them way less aggressive as well as reducing morale more than a 0-1 score line might. It only takes a corner or two, a good dribble or tackle to get the players and crowd going when the deficit is only 1, especially away from home.
Wolves, Chelsea and Palace are examples, where despite decent control at times, we struggled to create clear-cut chances.
Signing a striker and a cm that can make Eriksen a sub at 60 minutes player, instead of a starter is the key, in my view.
The transition from LB to LCB and CB to DM is completely different. Besides just because Shaw can do it so well, doesn't mean Lisandro can still do it well.very simple, Casemiro isn't playing,so we lose his presence in the middle.Many are concerned about possibly playing McFred in there, especially considering how poor McT looked in the last game. Many are thinking out loud, since Shaw has played so well recently at central defence, maybe Martinez's physicality and his passing might negate the absence of Casemiro in central mid. You asked when was the last time Lisandro played in midfield, until 3 games or so when did Shaw ever play centre half. With a squad as thin is ours, it might come down to asking players to cover positions they normally don't play. Antony played centre forward for a period at start of 2nd half v City. Bruno's best postion is number 10, but recently he has been covering the wings when needed. ETH has shown he can be flexible in that regard.
Well looks like Leeds twice in 4 days now,so how on earth are we meant to improve thatNot that difficult. Improved stamina.
Simple as this. It's painfully obvious that Eriksen is usually gassed by the 60 minute mark.Controlling/progressive CM younger than Eriksen
Yeah our ball retention needs to improve particularly in second half or we will start dropping more points at home like we have awayEmphasize ball retention in training?
I can't remember the game, it was someone playing against Chelsea. Chelsea were ahead, and brought on Jorginho with 8 minutes remaining. That unofficially ended the game, because the other team couldn't get the ball off of Chelsea with Jorginho in the midfield.
Now we don't have that metronome currently, but in training EtH can look to implement simple shit like rondo exercises. Just have the midfield and defense participate. No team can press/chase the ball endlessly for 15 minutes. Retain the ball and pass to take the sting out of a desperate opposition, and give your midfielders some rest.
And no this is not tiki-taka. If the opponent overcommits to the press find the open man and look to create a chance.
Don't know why we didn't go for Tielemans at least to give us something until end of season. Unfortunately window is going to shut with poor Christian gassing after an hourSimple as this. It's painfully obvious that Eriksen is usually gassed by the 60 minute mark.
Sign a hybrid type like Casa in the summer OR sign pure CDM and progressive CM instead?...buy better players? Eriksen is a fading force and McFred/VDB aren't good enough. Casemiro can't do it all by himself every game. Some fans are acting like our midfield is fixed but take Casemiro out and it's not a top 6 midfield.