What should we do with Mata if Mourinho is appointed?

sullydnl

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Another point: Mourinho sold him because he preferred Oscar. Oscar has since been awful, far worse than Mata.

Just because Mourinho does something it doesn't mean it's automatically correct. Deciding to sell Mata is one thing but replacing him with someone better isn't necessarily that easy.
 

Successful

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He didn't exactly sell Mata for peanuts. He still rated him, he brought him there and he made him special. There's still a chance we can get something out of him, but I believe time has run out on Mata and he's not going to be that good again. He's a different player today.
 

sullydnl

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He didn't exactly sell Mata for peanuts. He still rated him, he brought him there and he made him special. There's still a chance we can get something out of him, but I believe time has run out on Mata and he's not going to be that good again. He's a different player today.
True, I think Chelsea needed the money at the time too. That's not an issue here. If Mourinho views him as a luxury player (a term I hate) then maybe he'll feel he has the resources to keep that luxury in the squad.

Plus maybe he'll actually prefer the new, hard-working hatchet man version of Mata we've been treated to this year. :lol:
 

Art Vandelay

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Like him but he is one of the reasons our game has become so pedestrian
I think it was more down to LVG's risk free approach with very little movement around him than Mata himself. He did well in a Chelsea team that wasn't as dull as us and was a big part of our best run under LVG when we actually played well last season for a few games.

I like him, but we could do better at both right wing and number 10. It's a question if we can actually get one of those better players in.
 

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Was watching the Player of the Year Awards on MUTV and in the Goal of the Season clip, Mata was involved in a lot of them.
 

Gambit

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Doesn't matter, if he's not part of the plans, on he goes. I like the guy but he's not the Scholes replacement we all hoped he'd be.
 

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I think he's absolutely adorable, a cuddly little bundle of sheer joy, with all his smiles and hugs, and helping old ladies across the road etc. :) (I am a bit biased in a totally unrelated to football way).

Best ambassador we could possibly have for the club.

I'd like to see him given a chance in his best position, with players around him who are also performing to their best - that's the only time to make a judgement.
 

Lentwood

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That just isn't true. Granted we might not have seen the best of him here at times but I suggest you watch some of his football from his time at Chelsea.
I knew somebody would dig up his Chelsea form - I didn't watch Chelsea every week then but I have watched every single Utd game that Mata has played in and I am yet to see one single piece of evidence that he is the player we need in our front 4 either as a winger or a #10
 

Mockney

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I knew somebody would dig up his Chelsea form - completely different as he was playing in a team who were absolutely steam-rollering all that was put in front of them.
What, those formidable Chelsea teams that finished 6th and 3rd?

I do understand the problem people have with Mata.
The problem is the bitter, joyless, angry shills LVG's reign has made of them. You'd think, for example, that a player whose not only been our second highest scorer since he arrived (from midfield no less) but one of the most effective from his position in the entire league, scored a spectacular winning brace at Anfield (enough alone to make him a **** hero in virtually any other era) and now a crucial goal in an FA Cup final to boot, would at least be better thought of by his own fans than Shinji - I did nothing for 2 years in a better team - Kagawa... But, amazing as it may seem, apparently not!

Something as irrationally baffling as this can surely only be explained by his perceived, singular association with the Moyes & LVG reigns, and the rabid, entitled hatred many fans hold toward them, and anything associated with them. That...or Japanese spamming.

Not only is he a fantastically efficient and occasionally delightful player, but his often maligned work ethic has been shown to actually be amongst our best, and even the recent idea he's a flat track bully confounded by the fact his goal yesterday extends his impressive record of scoring or assisting in every final he's ever played, which include 2 Fa Cups (goal & assist) a Champions League (assist) a Europa League (winning assist) a Copa Del Rey (goal) and a European Championships (goal), making him pretty much our most conclusive, statistically factual big game player.

In fact none of the arguments I've ever seen against him amount to more than "Yeah his stats are great, but I've watched him, and I'm not convinced he does enough cool shit enough of the time, apart from score or assist, of course.."

None of which is to say he's been a paragon of excellence or anything, or that there aren't better examples of his ilk to chase for a long term first XI spot (there are) but the sheer amount of people champing at the bit to not just undermine, but write off and sell one of our best and most prolific players - one of the few, small, but occasional delights to support in these last few years - is simply mind boggling to me. Almost as mind boggling as Shinji Kagawa ranking as Redcafe's 39th favorite player....But not quite, because that's really, really weird. I mean, are there just a lot of Shinji fans secretly butt hurt by Mata's arrival or something? What on earth is that about!?

Jose will almost certainly sell him of course, and whilst I'd love to see him thrive in a more dynamic and confident team, if our new regime can land a genuine upgrade then I'll support it. I am happy he got to sign off with a goal and a trophy though, as at least something to show for his criminally underappreciated spell at United. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight, the gollum-like cynicunts these meagre lean years have made of our fans will come to appreciate him more....Perhaps even as much as Shinji - I once got a hat-trick against Norwich - Kawaga? But who knows. We can but dream.
 
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Sandikan

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Jose will almost certainly sell him though, and whilst I'd love to see him thrive in a more dynamic and confident team, if our new regime can land a genuine upgrade then I'll support it. I am happy he got to sign off with a goal and a trophy though, as something to show for his criminally underappreciated spell at United. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight, the gollum-like cynicunts these meagre lean years have made of our fans will come to appreciate him more....Maybe even as much as Shinji - I once got a hat-trick against Norwich - Kawaga. But who knows? We can but dream.
Will be interesting if Mourinho can help us sell players for as good fees as Chelsea used to get! I doubt it!
As for Kagawa, he was stuffed the moment it was apparent we could get VP! Changed the whole dynamic.
 

Devil81

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I trust Jose to make the correct calls on the team, I like Mata but I've always felt there was something missing anyway.

Jose will get us back where we need to be, if we lose a few on the way, so be it.
 

Ixion

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I don't expect him to sell Mata. Just because he was sold at one club with a particular style and set of players doesn't mean he's automatically out the door at any club Mourinho goes to.
 

RDCR07

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There is no way he is going to be played out in the wing because Mou doesn't like his tracking back. I hope he stays. I want him to play the #10 with a proper manager and he will have Martial on the left and probably a new, quick winger on the right and also Zlatan playing in front of him. I want to give one more season to see how he does. I think he will excel if played in the right position for us.
 

sammsky1

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Mourinho will be under pressure straight away to find space for young players, so he won't want the likes of Mata and Schweinsteiger clogging up the first XI when a young player like Lingard or Rashford can do at least as well wide right as well as hopefully accommodating a classy new incoming like Mahrez or Rodrigues.

I like Mata as a person, he seems like Evra or Park on his passion for the club and connection with the fans. But he is not good enough for a top level team. He should move to a club like Spurs or Atletico Madrid for one final high level move.
 

Unlikely lad

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Might be wrong but to me Puncheon's goal yesterday suggests it hasn't improved at all. Not blaming him solely or saying it's a problem he should necessarily work on because imo he should be nowhere near the right wing as it's not his position.
Don't agree, whole team pushed up after the corner, if it was anyone's fault, it was Martial's.
 

sammsky1

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The other point is that I think a Mourinho team has only one place for either Rooney or Mata.

If Rooney settles as a midfield no 8, then Mata is not fast enough to compensate as no 10.
 

RDCR07

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Mourinho will be under pressure straight away to find space for young players, so he won't want the likes of Mata and Schweinsteiger clogging up the first XI when a young player like Lingard or Rashford can do at least as well wide right as well as hopefully accommodating a classy new incoming like Mahrez or Rodrigues.

I like Mata as a person, he seems like Evra or Park on his passion for the club and connection with the fans. But he is not good enough for a top level team. He should move to a club like Spurs or Atletico Madrid for one final high level move.
Firstly Mata isnt competing with either Lingard or Rashford. I know Lingard was playing as a #10 but that was another idiotic move from the great LVG. Secondly you're saying he isn't fit for a top level but mention Athletico who are a top 5 team in Europe right now.
 

Mockney

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As for Kagawa, he was stuffed the moment it was apparent we could get VP! Changed the whole dynamic.
Oh I've no ill will toward Kagawa, and I agree he was mostly a victim of circumstance here, but Juan Mata has done about 100X more for the club in his stead, and in roughly the same timeframe, to make even their comparison almost certifiably crazy, let alone justify the omission of the better and the high favorability of the lesser in a fan poll.

I only bring it up because they were very similar players, who've had drastically different impacts at United, and it seems to say a lot about how ridiculous and irrationally tainted the attitudes of parts of our fanbase (or at least The Caf) are at present... And as such go some way to explaining the weird negativity toward Juan.
 
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sammsky1

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Firstly Mata isnt competing with either Lingard or Rashford. I know Lingard was playing as a #10 but that was another idiotic move from the great LVG. Secondly you're saying he isn't fit for a top level but mention Atletico who are a top 5 team in Europe right now.
He was for the wide right inside forward role.

Yes you're right about Atletico, but I think he'd fit in well there as an attacking player. He'd do even better at Spurs.
 

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I knew somebody would dig up his Chelsea form - I didn't watch Chelsea every week then but I have watched every single Utd game that Mata has played in and I am yet to see one single piece of evidence that he is the player we need in our front 4 either as a winger or a #10
Then you don't understand the game of football. He's had plenty of good games for Manchester United.

If Mourinho comes in and doesn't fancy him then that's fine. But I hope Mata stays as he's a bloody good player.
 

RDCR07

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He was for the wide right inside forward role.

Yes you're right about Atletico, but I think he'd fit in well there as an attacking player. He'd do even better at Spurs.
He was never right for the wide right role. The only reason why he did well for Chelsea in the wide role was because he was given the autonomy to switch and swap with the other two - Oscar and Hazard. Thats why they had an excellent attack. Here is confined to that right wing role. Its hard for him to play that role especially when he had a shit fullback in Darmian, at least going forward.
 

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What, those formidable Chelsea teams that finished 6th and 3rd?



The problem is the bitter, joyless, angry shills LVG's reign has made of them. You'd think, for example, that a player whose not only been our second highest scorer since he arrived (from midfield no less) but one of the most effective from his position in the entire league, scored a spectacular winning brace at Anfield (enough alone to make him a **** hero in virtually any other era) and now a crucial goal in an FA Cup final to boot, would at least be better thought of by his own fans than Shinji - I did nothing for 2 years in a better team - Kagawa... But, amazing as it may seem, apparently not!

Something as irrationally baffling as this can surely only be explained by his perceived, singular association with the Moyes & LVG reigns, and the rabid, entitled hatred many fans hold toward them, and anything associated with them. That...or Japanese spamming.

Not only is he a fantastically efficient and occasionally delightful player, but his often maligned work ethic has been shown to actually be amongst our best, and even the recent idea he's a flat track bully confounded by the fact his goal yesterday extends his impressive record of scoring or assisting in every final he's ever played, which include 2 Fa Cups (goal & assist) a Champions League (assist) a Europa League (winning assist) a Copa Del Rey (goal) and a European Championships (goal), making him pretty much our most conclusive, statistically factual big game player.

In fact none of the arguments I've ever seen against him amount to more than "Yeah his stats are great, but I've watched him, and I'm not convinced he does enough cool shit enough of the time, apart from score or assist, of course.."

None of which is to say he's been a paragon of excellence or anything, or that there aren't better examples of his ilk to chase for a long term first XI spot (there are) but the sheer amount of people champing at the bit to not just undermine, but write off and sell one of our best and most prolific players - one of the few, small, but occasional delights to support in these last few years - is simply mind boggling to me. Almost as mind boggling as Shinji Kagawa ranking as Redcafe's 39th favorite player....But not quite, because that's really, really weird. I mean, are there just a lot of Shinji fans secretly butt hurt by Mata's arrival or something? What on earth is that about!?

Jose will almost certainly sell him of course, and whilst I'd love to see him thrive in a more dynamic and confident team, if our new regime can land a genuine upgrade then I'll support it. I am happy he got to sign off with a goal and a trophy though, as at least something to show for his criminally underappreciated spell at United. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight, the gollum-like cynicunts these meagre lean years have made of our fans will come to appreciate him more....Perhaps even as much as Shinji - I once got a hat-trick against Norwich - Kawaga? But who knows. We can but dream.
Agree fully and a pleasure to read as well.
 

red_john

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If he fits into Jose's team then I guarantee he will be played in the position he is best..not RM. I think we would get 20-25 million for him if we did sell.
 

sullydnl

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What, those formidable Chelsea teams that finished 6th and 3rd?



The problem is the bitter, joyless, angry shills LVG's reign has made of them. You'd think, for example, that a player whose not only been our second highest scorer since he arrived (from midfield no less) but one of the most effective from his position in the entire league, scored a spectacular winning brace at Anfield (enough alone to make him a **** hero in virtually any other era) and now a crucial goal in an FA Cup final to boot, would at least be better thought of by his own fans than Shinji - I did nothing for 2 years in a better team - Kagawa... But, amazing as it may seem, apparently not!

Something as irrationally baffling as this can surely only be explained by his perceived, singular association with the Moyes & LVG reigns, and the rabid, entitled hatred many fans hold toward them, and anything associated with them. That...or Japanese spamming.

Not only is he a fantastically efficient and occasionally delightful player, but his often maligned work ethic has been shown to actually be amongst our best, and even the recent idea he's a flat track bully confounded by the fact his goal yesterday extends his impressive record of scoring or assisting in every final he's ever played, which include 2 Fa Cups (goal & assist) a Champions League (assist) a Europa League (winning assist) a Copa Del Rey (goal) and a European Championships (goal), making him pretty much our most conclusive, statistically factual big game player.

In fact none of the arguments I've ever seen against him amount to more than "Yeah his stats are great, but I've watched him, and I'm not convinced he does enough cool shit enough of the time, apart from score or assist, of course.."

None of which is to say he's been a paragon of excellence or anything, or that there aren't better examples of his ilk to chase for a long term first XI spot (there are) but the sheer amount of people champing at the bit to not just undermine, but write off and sell one of our best and most prolific players - one of the few, small, but occasional delights to support in these last few years - is simply mind boggling to me. Almost as mind boggling as Shinji Kagawa ranking as Redcafe's 39th favorite player....But not quite, because that's really, really weird. I mean, are there just a lot of Shinji fans secretly butt hurt by Mata's arrival or something? What on earth is that about!?

Jose will almost certainly sell him of course, and whilst I'd love to see him thrive in a more dynamic and confident team, if our new regime can land a genuine upgrade then I'll support it. I am happy he got to sign off with a goal and a trophy though, as at least something to show for his criminally underappreciated spell at United. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight, the gollum-like cynicunts these meagre lean years have made of our fans will come to appreciate him more....Perhaps even as much as Shinji - I once got a hat-trick against Norwich - Kawaga? But who knows. We can but dream.
This is a wonderful post.
 

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Then you don't understand the game of football. He's had plenty of good games for Manchester United.

If Mourinho comes in and doesn't fancy him then that's fine. But I hope Mata stays as he's a bloody good player.
Firstly, I said "one piece of evidence that he is the player we need at #10 or on the wing" - I didn't comment on his general footballing ability as his first touch and ability to hold on to the ball in tight areas is world class, and his finishing is great too. What he doesn't have is pace, power, any ability at all in the air, strength, the ability to beat a player, the ability to whip dangerous crosses into the box (too many floated airy fairy efforts) and despite being a so-called playmaker, Wolfsburg aside, name me one through-ball Mata has played leading to a goal off the top of your head?

Now think again about whether this is the man you want in the #10 or wide areas at Utd, regardless of the manager?
 

gza the genius

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I think we could do with an upgrade but we have other positions that need sorted first, Mata is hardly our biggest problem. Hopefully Jose sees value in him and Mata holds no ill will.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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If someone has a good offer, I'd sell.

But I wouldn't complain if he stayed.
 

sullydnl

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What would you do if you were Mata? Stay and try to prove yourself to Mourinho or accept he doesn't rate you enough and look to get away from him asap?
 

Spock

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I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if this point has been made already, but I actually see Mata being a very useful squad player for United, even under Mourinho.

Juan doesn't seem to mind coming off the bench. I realize he cost 39m and that's probably a world record for a mere squad player but you really can't do much better than Mata for an option coming off the bench or getting a run of 3-4 starts while a regular starter is out with injury.

But if Mourinho says no, then that's that. We have to be prepared for some major pruning.
 
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What, those formidable Chelsea teams that finished 6th and 3rd?



The problem is the bitter, joyless, angry shills LVG's reign has made of them. You'd think, for example, that a player whose not only been our second highest scorer since he arrived (from midfield no less) but one of the most effective from his position in the entire league, scored a spectacular winning brace at Anfield (enough alone to make him a **** hero in virtually any other era) and now a crucial goal in an FA Cup final to boot, would at least be better thought of by his own fans than Shinji - I did nothing for 2 years in a better team - Kagawa... But, amazing as it may seem, apparently not!

Something as irrationally baffling as this can surely only be explained by his perceived, singular association with the Moyes & LVG reigns, and the rabid, entitled hatred many fans hold toward them, and anything associated with them. That...or Japanese spamming.

Not only is he a fantastically efficient and occasionally delightful player, but his often maligned work ethic has been shown to actually be amongst our best, and even the recent idea he's a flat track bully confounded by the fact his goal yesterday extends his impressive record of scoring or assisting in every final he's ever played, which include 2 Fa Cups (goal & assist) a Champions League (assist) a Europa League (winning assist) a Copa Del Rey (goal) and a European Championships (goal), making him pretty much our most conclusive, statistically factual big game player.

In fact none of the arguments I've ever seen against him amount to more than "Yeah his stats are great, but I've watched him, and I'm not convinced he does enough cool shit enough of the time, apart from score or assist, of course.."

None of which is to say he's been a paragon of excellence or anything, or that there aren't better examples of his ilk to chase for a long term first XI spot (there are) but the sheer amount of people champing at the bit to not just undermine, but write off and sell one of our best and most prolific players - one of the few, small, but occasional delights to support in these last few years - is simply mind boggling to me. Almost as mind boggling as Shinji Kagawa ranking as Redcafe's 39th favorite player....But not quite, because that's really, really weird. I mean, are there just a lot of Shinji fans secretly butt hurt by Mata's arrival or something? What on earth is that about!?

Jose will almost certainly sell him of course, and whilst I'd love to see him thrive in a more dynamic and confident team, if our new regime can land a genuine upgrade then I'll support it. I am happy he got to sign off with a goal and a trophy though, as at least something to show for his criminally underappreciated spell at United. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight, the gollum-like cynicunts these meagre lean years have made of our fans will come to appreciate him more....Perhaps even as much as Shinji - I once got a hat-trick against Norwich - Kawaga? But who knows. We can but dream.
Wonderful @Mockney.

As for his future, I think José was simply smarter than the rest and sold him because he has the highest sell on value of his 3-4 number 10's. I'm not completely convinced José will want rid this time around, does he even have a number 10 right now?

Amazing player though Mata, and pure proof that football has become so much more die-hard since Diego-scores in an empty net Forlan.
 

DarkXaero

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What, those formidable Chelsea teams that finished 6th and 3rd?



The problem is the bitter, joyless, angry shills LVG's reign has made of them. You'd think, for example, that a player whose not only been our second highest scorer since he arrived (from midfield no less) but one of the most effective from his position in the entire league, scored a spectacular winning brace at Anfield (enough alone to make him a **** hero in virtually any other era) and now a crucial goal in an FA Cup final to boot, would at least be better thought of by his own fans than Shinji - I did nothing for 2 years in a better team - Kagawa... But, amazing as it may seem, apparently not!

Something as irrationally baffling as this can surely only be explained by his perceived, singular association with the Moyes & LVG reigns, and the rabid, entitled hatred many fans hold toward them, and anything associated with them. That...or Japanese spamming.

Not only is he a fantastically efficient and occasionally delightful player, but his often maligned work ethic has been shown to actually be amongst our best, and even the recent idea he's a flat track bully confounded by the fact his goal yesterday extends his impressive record of scoring or assisting in every final he's ever played, which include 2 Fa Cups (goal & assist) a Champions League (assist) a Europa League (winning assist) a Copa Del Rey (goal) and a European Championships (goal), making him pretty much our most conclusive, statistically factual big game player.

In fact none of the arguments I've ever seen against him amount to more than "Yeah his stats are great, but I've watched him, and I'm not convinced he does enough cool shit enough of the time, apart from score or assist, of course.."

None of which is to say he's been a paragon of excellence or anything, or that there aren't better examples of his ilk to chase for a long term first XI spot (there are) but the sheer amount of people champing at the bit to not just undermine, but write off and sell one of our best and most prolific players - one of the few, small, but occasional delights to support in these last few years - is simply mind boggling to me. Almost as mind boggling as Shinji Kagawa ranking as Redcafe's 39th favorite player....But not quite, because that's really, really weird. I mean, are there just a lot of Shinji fans secretly butt hurt by Mata's arrival or something? What on earth is that about!?

Jose will almost certainly sell him of course, and whilst I'd love to see him thrive in a more dynamic and confident team, if our new regime can land a genuine upgrade then I'll support it. I am happy he got to sign off with a goal and a trophy though, as at least something to show for his criminally underappreciated spell at United. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight, the gollum-like cynicunts these meagre lean years have made of our fans will come to appreciate him more....Perhaps even as much as Shinji - I once got a hat-trick against Norwich - Kawaga? But who knows. We can but dream.
Excellent post.
 

Gasolin

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Mourinho preferred Oscar to Mata in the #10 role. Right now, who would play this role for United? Rooney? Perreira? I would say he keeps Mata for the role, since he's only 27... and a very gifted player, as Mockney has wonderfully stated above.

To think that Mata is not one of the most gifted player unlucky to play in this team is a fabulous statement of football knowledge for many fans. Mata, in any good team, would be seen as a fantastic player who can distribute so well. He reminds me of Riquelme at his best in the 2006 Argentina team... with fast players upfront, the likes of Martial or Rashford would love to have Mata behind them, hell, even with Lingard that would work too. Depay if he's back with the right mind.

Football is fantastic because of players like Mata, smart, and extremely gifted, despite everything we say about his speed (if anyone can prove me Zidane was fast, I am ready to listen). If behind him he has a sentinel who can get the ball when needed, he will do wonders. I really hope Mourinho sees Mata as his #10 this time, and realizes there's no Oscar now, and he should use him and tell him what a fantastic player he is. And Mata would go to the world cup in 2018 then.
 
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Mr Smith

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I want to keep him. Mata is an extremely intelligent player who has been played grossly out of position all season. It's important to note that, while he's good at finding players between the lines, his best attribute is actually finding space for himself and being in a position to receive the ball. One of the things that stood out from his time at Chelsea was his goalscoring, because he took up highly intelligent positions and got good service. He hasn't had that so much with us, but he's still scored quite a few goals, so that ability is clearly still there.

Ultimately though, it's down to Mourinho. I don't think it's as much of a given that he'll move him on as everyone things, but if Mourinho wants him to go, he should go. If Mourinho wants him to stay, he should stay.

Also, everything @Mockney said.
 

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Mourinho preferred Oscar to Mata in the #10 role. Right now, who would play this role for United? Rooney? Perreira? I would say he keeps Mata for the role, since he's only 27... and a very gifted player, as Mockney has wonderfully stated above.

To think that Mata is not one of the most gifted player unlucky to play in this team is a fabulous statement of football knowledge for many fans. Mata, in any good team, would be seen as a fantastic player who can distribute so well. He reminds me of Riquelme at his best in the 2006 Argentina team... with fast players upfront, the likes of Martial or Rashford would love to have Mata behind them, hell, even with Lingard that would work too. Depay if he's back with the right mind.

Football is fantastic because of players like Mata, smart, and extremely gifted, despite everything we say about his speed (if anyone can prove me Zidane was fast, I am ready to listen). If behind him he has a sentinel who can get the ball when needed, he will do wonders. I really hope Mourinho sees Mata as his #10 this time, and realizes there's no Oscar now, and he should use him and tell him what a fantastic player he is. And Mata would go to the world cup in 2018 then.
Yet he hardly ever peforms like Riquelme, he's always playing it safe and rarely actually uses martial or rashford to his advantage.
 

Gerald G

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It depends on what Jose wants and what formation we want to use. If it's 4-3-3 we should think about selling him. If we're going to stick with the 4-2-3-1 then he should stay unless we're spending big on another no.10.