What to take away from todays win?

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
3,980
Location
NYC
Who are those players? Just for curiosity...
The front 3 is not too bad with small space, especially Martial but even Rashford and Lingard.
Supported by Mata in a game where space will be more compact but higher on the field, I think it's ok.
I can think of Gomes as well as very good on the ball, and if that's a game where pressing is less critical, his ability on the ball could be used as well.
 

cyril C

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
1,228
Realistically, what sort of conclusions can we make about todays demolition of Chelsea?

The defence is sorted for years?
Has De Gea returned?
The front three, whilst inconsistent, looked very happy today.
Keeping Pogba was a master play from Ole (although may yet lose him).
The midfield is still weak so we may see a repeat of two seasons ago.
Bench strength is lacking.
Pressing? Not so much. Seems like we might go forward with high energy counter attacking football?
Agree. While Ole boasted about his attacking football tactics, it was in fact counter-attacking. We were still clueless on open play, all goals came from counter-attack. How to break down a bus, how to win MF against 352, what to do when Pogba AWOL, are still unanswered.
 

manunited1919

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
3,231
Fred for Andreas, James for Lingard?
Hmmm. Andreas assisted our second goal and he also stole the ball that started our move for Rashford’s goal. I didn’t think he was great either, but Andreas needs to be given a run of games for us to judge him.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
13,135
Location
Where the grass is greener.
Hmmm. Andreas assisted our second goal and he also stole the ball that started our move for Rashford’s goal. I didn’t think he was great either, but Andreas needs to be given a run of games for us to judge him.
No I don't think he does. He really wasn't in the game today, did well for the assist, but if he starts against Wolves I'll be disappointed. I don't trust him.
 

Nicoseth

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
333
Andreas had a solid game today - some errors early but so did quite a few players. He seemed to grow into the game and worked his socks off. Definitely deserves to start against Wolves, as does McTominay - he was excellent today. Maguire though - could be a game changer in terms of the season as a whole. He was immense.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
73,283
Location
india
  • Our defence looks strong this season. On first glance Maguire and AWB appear to be strong upgrades over the previously existing options.
  • The strike force of Rashford and Martial has potential if we can create chances consistently for them. They're both skillful, have a strong goal threat and plenty of room for improvment
  • On the other hand our general play before we doubled the lead, was disjointed and to be honest Chelsea completely bossed us particularly in midfield. The result was terrific but if we keep up that level of cohesion and control in our buildup, we'll be in trouble this season. While Ole won 4-0, Lampard's cheslea for the most part appeared to be far more of a well drilled football team. They just didn't have the clinical touch that we did.
  • Pereira and Mctominay in midfield/right - not good enough. Can't see how the former is good enough whereas the latter should ideally be a squad option not an automatic starter despite the terminator hype train.
  • I liked the high press. Please keep it going rather than using it sparingly as Mourinho did.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
73,283
Location
india
No I don't think he does. He really wasn't in the game today, did well for the assist, but if he starts against Wolves I'll be disappointed. I don't trust him.
Yeah same here. He offered pretty much nothing all game apart from running and that one good cross. We need much more whether from midfield or from a right winger. In midfield we need players who are assured in possession and on the right we need pace and skill. Periera offers neither. He appears to give is work rate and quality on the ball two or three times per match. It's not enough. The scoreline was brillant but let's not ignore the fact that Chelsea's midfield ran rings around us in the first 60 odd minutes.
 

PieCrust

Full Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2015
Messages
1,219
Nice to see some actual counter attacking goals.
Pogba was at times terrible, but then comes through with a couple of brilliant passes to set up goals.
Midfield is not anywhere near good enough. Chelsea outplayed us with what was probably their weakest lineup in 20 years for most of the match and we will struggle against the top teams.
Defense looks solid now, but will be hard pressed to hold up 90' without support from the midefield.
 

Eoin McMahon

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
259
  • Our defence looks strong this season. On first glance Maguire and AWB appear to be strong upgrades over the previously existing options.
  • The strike force of Rashford and Martial has potential if we can create chances consistently for them. They're both skillful, have a strong goal threat and plenty of room for improvment
  • On the other hand our general play before we doubled the lead, was disjointed and to be honest Chelsea completely bossed us particularly in midfield. The result was terrific but if we keep up that level of cohesion and control in our buildup, we'll be in trouble this season. While Ole won 4-0, Lampard's cheslea for the most part appeared to be far more of a well drilled football team. They just didn't have the clinical touch that we did.
  • Pereira and Mctominay in midfield/right - not good enough. Can't see how the former is good enough whereas the latter should ideally be a squad option not an automatic starter despite the terminator hype train.
  • I liked the high press. Please keep it going rather than using it sparingly as Mourinho did.
It was a game that could easily have gone either way and I felt we were poor for the majority of the game. Chelsea are in a very similar situation to us as they are also trying to bring some younger players in to their team while also trying to change their style of play and setup to how Lampard wants which will be tough as a inexperienced manager at a big club under a transfer ban and I feel they will struggle badly this season.
Still they could have easily beat us and that shows there is still alot of work to be done but the main thing that can be taken away from this result was the confidence boost that will hugely help everyone at the club and the belief that the work in preseason and what Ole is trying to implement is the way forward and its a result like this against other big teams that provides that boost.

I'm happy to say that I finally have confidence in our defense for the first time in 6-7 years and although there will be much bigger tests than today if the back four of Shaw, Lindelof , Maguire and AWB can play together week in week out I can see it being the best defence we've had since Fergie left. Every team needs a settled back four and hopefully barring injuries we can finally have that and with De Gea behind them we have a solid base to build on for the rest of the season.

As for our midfield I think it may be a problem area for us this season, i think the 3 man midfield is the way forward and also allows Pogba play in that LCM role that he plays his best football in, however the other 2 positions are still lacking and I feel Matic would have been a better option than Mct today just for the fact his positioning and interceptions would have been a big asset especially when playing in the CDM spot. I feel McT will get better with more time in the role but for big games like today Matic even just for his experience would have been a better option in my view. As for the RCM I fear Pereira might not be good enough but we'll see, he has an assist in him and has energy that Herrera provided in that role but has pace that I feel can be a real asset for us there.

Defensively we are poor in midfield though as all 3 that played today don't completely suit the high press style we are playing and turning over the ball is a major problem. This could improve with time but I believe the type of player we need and that could turn that midfield from an average to a world class midfield and that would suit our play style and if it could be described perfectly then it's N'golo Kante. Pace ,energy, tackling, passing, interceptions if we could get a player like him I think our midfield would thrive. Unfortunately there's only one Kante but I thought Gueye from Everton would have been a steal or maybe Ndidi from Leicester, two players who are close enough that would provide that energy we lack in midfield.
 

SaintMuppet

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Messages
826
Location
Thailand
We take 3 points and be grateful because it could have been different at half time.

We don’t get carried away but we have some optimism for the season.

We pray we don’t get any injuries in our midfield.

We pray everybody else are decimated by injuries and bad results.

We get behind our team whoever is playing.

Profit
 

The Siege

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
74
We have relatively structured counter attacks now, which is nice. Everyone knew how the team generally moved, which was refreshing.

Maguire and AWB don't seem like they'll need a lot of adjustment time, which is nice to see.

Other than that, there's a lot to be done. The opposition are still walking through our midfield, which is going to have a multitude of problems regardless of how strong our defense is. Chelsea were toothless, so the impact of it didn't really hit today, but there's room for a lot of damage to be done.
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
14,761
Location
Sydney
i think we have lots of things to improve on but the effort and togetherness seems to be massively improved now, and I think Ole deserves a lot of credit for that
 

Lam

Full Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2013
Messages
212
1. HM and AWB are good - one key difference between these two and others we have in general is that they were aggressively going for the ball and winning it
2. This defence looks good enough to hold its ground against mid-table and bottom as these guys will win their duels and come on top. Against top 6 + Everton, we need to defend as a team to not concede, which I don't see happening
3. Coming to defending as a team - this midfield is not good enough unless Matic somehow steps up and produces world class displays consistently
4. We'll end up in top 4 just by beating the bottom 13 consistently this season and win home games against top 7
5. Teams will be afraid to commit players against us (incl. Pool City) just because of the pace upfront + Pogba's vision to pick the right pass. We will also not see too many teams playing a high back line given our pace - this will give our midfield some breathing space and Pogba/Mata to play well linking Midfield and Attack
6. We are going to see some exciting counter attacking goals (Rash, Pog, Martial and James as sub after 60-70 min). We'll score a lot of goals after 70 min
7. Rashford will score 20 and Martial will score 15 injury permitting
8. DDG looked assured which is a big positive
9. I keep forgetting Alexis Sanchez is the highest paid player in Premier League
10. Chelsea will not finish in the top 6 but Lampard won't be fired
 

Devil77

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Messages
843
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Absolutely loved the goal celebrations. We need the players to give 100% for one another and the signs are there. The sheer extatic joy displayed by James was marvelous. That is football for you! Exactly what it needs after silly season when it is all about money, fees, greed and basically everything but football.
 

baskinginthesun

Full Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
653
Location
California Sometimes
Good to see that our attackers were actually higher up the pitch. They pressed all the way back to Kepa. Really hope they continue to do that all season. A lot of energy in the forward line. If the preseason did the trick, then fair play to Ole and hopefully they are able to do it for 90mins every week. They will be an absolute nightmare for the rest of the league.

Maguire looks the part. Cool, calm and collected. Played the ball out from the back when needed and leathered the ball out of play when needed. No messing about with him. Won't need time to get used to the league which is critical for us for the rest of the season.
 

kouroux

45k posts to finally achieve this tagline
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
77,651
Location
Djibouti (La terre des braves)
My first take away is that it was great seeing the team back in a competitive match, the seamless introduction of AWB and Maguire. I like what OGS is trying to build, I think if we can solidify his ideas and invest in quality players in the future then it can be great. However things need to be looked from the perspective of Chelsea and this was the ideal first game of the season for us.
 

Gambit

Desperately wants to be a Muppet
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
29,709
What I took was that hopefully we have a team again that can turn events in a matter of minutes regardless of how well we play.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
4,859
Off the top of my head
The good
We have found the back of the net again.
Martial ran more yesterday than he usually does in 4 games and plays with a smile
The defence will get better once an understanding comes from playing together
De Gea looks back to his best
Not so good
We still dont seem to have a style of play
Goals aside, all the other stats pointed to we were the away team
Midfield was run through with ease

Hopefully this will be addressed and improved upon
 

WireMUFC

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
280
Location
Warrington
This is the main point for me, just because you pick out negatives doesn’t make you look knowledgeable just makes you look like a moaner.
 

RussellWilson

Full Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
871
Lack of signing a proper midfielder will come back to bite us. I'm not sure we have anyone that can be relied upon to consistently do the things we need in possession and out of possession.
 

The Boy

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
890
Supports
Brighton and Hove Albion
What to take away from today's game?

Positives
Maguire

Negatives
Lacking in midfield
Better sides would have been out of sight by half time
Bit harsh on the positives!

Trusted defence means more freedom for attacking players
Building a coherent strategy
Team seems to be a real team - check the celebrations
Pace to burn
Rashford, Martial and James all scored and are off the mark (see where are our goals coming from threads)
First competitive game for this lot together and they really grew into it
This should improve as the season progresses, so better teams will meet a better united
Debut players all had stormers, you have signings for once that could work out well
You beat a top 4 rival 4-0!

Negatives
Lacking in midfield, though not nearly as much as people would like to think

EDIT adding to positives, threads here have changed from where will our goals from to Martial and Rashord's potential, the mood on the caf is a breath if fresh air!
 
Last edited:

lysglimt

Full Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
9,484
I want to believe in him - but I am beginning to believe that Luke Shaw wont be here in a couple of years.
 

UpWithRivers

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
1,093
First half looked like two inexperienced managers playing with 5/6th placed teams. But overall....

Defense outstanding. Play with that back 5 for the large percentage of games and we have a foundation to build in. For me Lindelof was outstanding. He allowed Maguire to play always covering, always mopping up and with the ability to make passes and take it out from the back.

Midfield is still a concern. But Pogba for me has been outstanding. Yes losing possession is unforgivable but lets remember its a midfield of 2 players not in their natural positions. Mctominay is young and not a DM and Pogba has never played well in a 2. Pogba was disciplined. Did his job to the letter of what a CM should do and got 2 assists. World class apart from losing possession. Its not their natural games to keep the ball and play simply like Jorginho. I think with a bit of improvement against a lot of teams they will be fine. If Fred can step in then that would be awesome. But god help is if we have an injury or 2. And yes a new midfielder was and is crucial.

Forwards- Rashford and Martial class. Lingard does what lingard does. Hes better as a 10. Lots off energy, moves the ball. But nothing else. Pereira doesn’t look like he will make it. Again another forward bought would have been awesome.

Overall I think we will have a good season. Confidence is there and system. We still meed to be tested against better sides. I would like to see how we deal with sides that park the bus and dont let us counter. I think if we find a solution to parked buses we will have a really great season.
 
Last edited:

JMack1234

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2017
Messages
1,193
The squad is too thin to do anything interesting but our A game is excellent.
 

emdee04

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
75
Location
Under the dome
Let's not kid ourselves and savour this moment because it's definitely not going to be this good for the larger part of the season when inconsistencies and injuries set in.

What I make of the win is a Chelsea team yet to understand the tactics of Lampard and a United team doing the usual which is winning the first few games of the season before reverting back to default mode.
 

msra5kg2

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
12
Myth became fact: Wan-Bissaka only gives the ball away to opposition to hunt them down and practice his tackling on them.
 

Escobar

Poster originally known as Michel04
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
23,971
Location
La-La-Land
This team can counter attack. We all know that.

I think the real test comes when teams are packing their own boxes and we have to break them down.
Agreed. It was a great result but not a great performance. The scoreline will blind a few but it showed that we still have the same issues as last season. Once we can control a game and open up defences whilst the other team stands deep, then we have finally have improved
 

Rocknrolla69er

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
Messages
292
We worked well as a unit today, you could see the shape without the ball and as a fan i didnt cringe as much with Bissaka and Maguire in the team when the other team attacked.

I think Shaw was abit ropey but tactically he was left a little exposed due to Ole wanting Rashford to stay high to try and neautralise The Chelsea rightback, he spotted it wasnt working and changed it at half time. Despite this i still thought Shaw had moments of hesitation or lack of concentration that didnt help at all. We l definatly invest in a keft back end of the season.

Peiriara was the other player in the team we can vastly improve on, while he got a good assist i just dont think he gets involved enough in defence and attack, i honestly think Gomes would of had a better game today.

Apart from that happy with everything else, good chances created, chances taken well by the strikers, defence oretty solid apart from a couple of instances, De Gea solid. Lots to like.
 

Hackman2210

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
23
Supports
cardiff city
positives - all goal scorers 23 or under.

Maguire will be here 10 years and retire a stretford end legend. His partnership with Lindelof will have grown men getting misty eyed when they reminisce in the years to come.

AWB - outstanding today, going to be here a long time.

Rashford and Martial - looked full of energy.

Greenwood and James off the bench - again promising good things to come.

All in all a positive game and a great 3 points. Onto Wolves where Maguire and Lindelof will help us to eek out a 1-0 away win.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Stookie

Nurse bell end
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
7,073
Location
West Yorkshire
One thing is sure, Pogba needs to stay. It’s clear he plays better in a team with Pace where he can pick the ball up and play it out with a laser pass. United really need to keep him.
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
4,324
Not much has changed stylistically in my mind. It was a phenomenal result and positives were debutants all did well but we have some gremlins in our midfield setup - we don't use the midfield to build possession at all.

Our patterns of play from the back were very good, as you'd expect now we have Lindelof & Maguire at CB who are both able and willing to pass the ball and bring it forward. We were very composed across the back four yesterday and we were only really troubled when we lost the ball in a bad area (which happened a lot) or Shaw was left with a 1 on 2 down the left. Add in DDG having a solid game and the back 5 look like they could be a mainstay this season.

Our issue comes when the ball finds it's way through the initial defensive lines and to Pogba, McT or sometimes Pereira/Lingard because their first reaction is to receive the ball, look up and try to play a pass through to Rashford and/or Martial. It's great to have this option but against better teams it's not going to work enough to be our primary form of attack - I know Ole loves counter attacking and we can't change that's clearly going to be a major weapon, we need to evolve a bit with how we use the ball further up the pitch. That doesn't mean we need to go to the extremes of Barca's tiki-taka but we need to be able to move forward as a team, whilst holding onto the ball and making the opponent work hard in trying to retrieve it.

As it stands I think Ole sees the midfield as a very basic entity. Break down attacks, protect the defensive unit when not in possession and then feed the strikers as soon as they get the ball - in my mind, it's why we're so open as a team because 90% of long balls are just going to be intercepted, be misplaced, be dealt with in general and then the opposition will come straight back at you.