What would make you change your opinion on Ole

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

So all just no opinions and no facts.

Im guessing SAF also just wont one shitty league before he arrived, in your opinion?

Ferguson led his Aberdeen side to back-to-back league titles in 1983/84 and 1984/85, it was the first time anyone apart from Celtic and Rangers had retained the trophy since 1951. He won the Scottish Cup four times and, most impressively of all, guided Aberdeen to the UEFA Cup Winners Cup by beating Real Madrid in the final. Do you consider winning Uefa Cup with Aberdeen a shitty achievement like winning the Norwegian league. Maybe you do..

Maybe Fergusons achievement at Aberdeen just like Ole was not good enough for us but he made himself good enough when he came here and earned time. How? He took over when we were 19th and took us to 11th place. In the following season he took us to 2nd losing just one home game. So in a season an a half he took us from 19th to 2nd. Remind where Ole has taken us so far since he came here.

I don't want to be that guy but please stop comparing Ole and Ferguson. This was something that happened 30 years ago ffs. Is the club really hoping we can replicate that with Ole

 

[Water Melon]

Tweet

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This needs to be made sticky.

 

[devilish]

Well we all suffered under LvG and most of Mou's time with some pretty lousy football. IMO when we have played well under Ole the football has been more attractive and hopeful than what I saw from both the great managers in LvG and Mou. Do we need to be more consistent, hell yes.

It was reported that Man City offered 70m and 278k a month wages for Maguire before we bought him. I guess you know better than Pep and other experts when it comes to who is WC or not.

Well Pep and defenders don't usually go well together but here's the thing. Shitty could afford blowing 70m on CB because they have 1-2 missing pieces in the team we do not. Our rebuilding is far too big to spend 80m on a player especially someone whose nowhere near to WC.

Regarding LVG and Mou, the former won the FA and got sacked after being 5th, the latter won the Europa league and got second and still got sacked. What had Ole achieved? We're currently 9th place, we're closer to the relegation zone then to Leicester at 3rd place (yep Leicester) and we had the worst start since 1989. Some managers get a bit of leeway for what had achieved in the past but there's nothing in Ole's managerial career to do that either. The guy was embarrassing at any job outside Norway.

 

[gerdm07]

Use any metrics you want. Our defence this year is much worse than all, bar maybe probably moyes season

It doesn't matter about the stats. I know that

AWB Lindelof Maguire Williams/Shaw

are much better then

Valencia Lindelof Smalling Young

Good luck trying to argue otherwise.

 

[gerdm07]

Well Pep and defenders don't usually go well together but here's the thing. Shitty could afford blowing 70m on CB because they have 1-2 missing pieces in the team we do not. Our rebuilding is far too big to spend 80m on a player especially someone whose nowhere near to WC.

Regarding LVG and Mou, the former won the FA and got sacked after being 5th, the latter won the Europa league and got second and still got sacked. What had Ole achieved? We're currently 9th place, we're closer to the relegation zone then to Leicester at 3rd place (yep Leicester) and we had the worst start since 1989. Some managers get a bit of leeway for what had achieved in the past but there's nothing in Ole's managerial career to do that either. The guy was embarrassing at any job outside Norway.

And they got sacked after 2 year and 2.5 years, respectively. And they got sacked more because their football was dire to watch and there was little sign of improvement. I'm not sure why you can't give Ole 1.5 or 2 years when there have been signs of improvement even amidst an injury crisis. I respect your opinion but I disagree.

 

[Kostov]

Stringing 15 league wins would probably make me change my mind that he is completely out of his depth.

 

[momo83]

So many threads are at loggerheads at the moment between Ole in and Ole out, both have good points, but I read the same arguments every day to the point of distraction and it's rare that anyone concedes anything, everything feels very entrenched and polarised.

So Ole in posters what would it take to change your position?

How low could the win rate percentage drop? or how low would you go in the league this season before you change your mind?

And Ole out posters, how many wins on the trot would change your mind, which signings in the summer might make you think again?

What does Ole do that changes anyone's opinion?

Don’t really think there is any loggerheads over 70% of voters don’t want him to be our manager next season

 

[momo83]

It’s not Ole’s fault. He’s been let down by the board. How many managers in world football only get Allowed to spend £80m for a CB, £50m for a RB, £55m for a CM and £15m for a championship player.. yet still be expected to do their job.. god dammit Wolves and Sheff Utd spent billions... Ole really has been given a relegation budget and deserves manager of the year for the fact we’re not down there battling it with Norwich to avoid last place.

 

[redshaw]

Even a good run might not be enough. Might be viewed similar to last season's good run that could be overshadowed by long periods of poor results again.

While he's been dealt a not so good hand, he could've done things to help himself. Top managers get most of their decisions right and have to make them every day, which players to stick by, liaising with the board, seeing which players need a break, which areas of the team need adding to. Ole has been so poor despite having 10 years experience, it's seemed to count for nothing and we can't keep waiting and have blind faith he'll get it one day.

 

[Sky1981]

It doesn't matter about the stats. I know that

AWB Lindelof Maguire Williams/Shaw

are much better then

Valencia Lindelof Smalling Young

Good luck trying to argue otherwise.

Clean sheets?
Points per game?

I'm not trying to argue. If you believe in tooth fairy then it's on you

 

[momo83]

To think Ole is the one to lead us to success, more then that achieved by Mourinho or LVG.

He’d have to have a personality transplant and be completely unrecognisable when listening to his post and pre match pressers.

Match day management would have to improve drastically . Right tactical changes and right subs at the right time.

Team would have to develop a style of play

Then results will start coming.

 

[sunama]

Ole's coaching staff includes a experienced Phelan who's last role was as a DOF at some Australian team no ones heard of and was said to have been doing a poor job considering, a u18 coach in McKenna and a complete novice in Carrick.

So,not only are Ole's credentials for the main role questionable but also the coaching staff he surrounds himself with.

Mate, the club has people in positions, from top to bottom, who are not qualified to be in those roles.
The club needs to be gutted from top to bottom.

 

[sunama]

And they got sacked after 2 year and 2.5 years, respectively. And they got sacked more because their football was dire to watch and there was little sign of improvement. I'm not sure why you can't give Ole 1.5 or 2 years when there have been signs of improvement even amidst an injury crisis. I respect your opinion but I disagree.

We've regressed.
Even after spending so much money on our defence (which Jose wanted to do a year earlier), our defence is now leaking more goals than when we were under Jose, using a cheaper defensive roster.

And I'll remind you that EVERY team has an injury problem. Very few teams in the history of the EPL have gone through an entire season with no injuries.

I can't believe people are making excuses for what is the worst manager in the league.

It’s not Ole’s fault. He’s been let down by the board. How many managers in world football only get Allowed to spend £80m for a CB, £50m for a RB, £55m for a CM and £15m for a championship player.. yet still be expected to do their job.. god dammit Wolves and Sheff Utd spent billions... Ole really has been given a relegation budget and deserves manager of the year for the fact we’re not down there battling it with Norwich to avoid last place.

Damn!

 

[FrankDrebin]

Mate, the club has people in positions, from top to bottom, who are not qualified to be in those roles.
The club needs to be gutted from top to bottom.

Aye, its a shambles.

 

[devilish]

And they got sacked after 2 year and 2.5 years, respectively. And they got sacked more because their football was dire to watch and there was little sign of improvement. I'm not sure why you can't give Ole 1.5 or 2 years when there have been signs of improvement even amidst an injury crisis. I respect your opinion but I disagree.

Both LVG and Mou got fired the moment they failed to qualify to make it in the CL and that despite winning important trophies such as the Europa League and the FA cup. I think its fair to say that the same yardstick should be used with Ole. Also I fail to understand this improvement thing. We're sitting at 9th place with the likes of Sheffield United, Leicester, Everton and Wolves ahead of us. The gap between us and the relegation zone is smaller then that between us and 3rd placed Leicester whom we bought an 80m rated player from. Surely that's not good enough.

 

[Reiver]

Both LVG and Mou got fired the moment they failed to qualify to make it in the CL and that despite winning important trophies such as the Europa League and the FA cup. I think its fair to say that the same yardstick should be used with Ole. Also I fail to understand this improvement thing. We're sitting at 9th place with the likes of Sheffield United, Leicester, Everton and Wolves ahead of us. The gap between us and the relegation zone is smaller then that between us and 3rd placed Leicester whom we bought an 80m rated player from. Surely that's not good enough.

That's because there's been none. The football is now worse than under Mourinho. You're right, he should be held to the same standards as past managers but let's wait and see if he is.

 

[devilish]

That's because there's been none. The football is now worse than under Mourinho. You're right, he should be held to the same standards as past managers but let's wait and see if he is.

He was handled a golden opportunity thanks to Shitty's ban. If he can't win either the Europa League nor get us to 5th place then he should be sacked. There's no beating around the bush on that one.

 

[Roboc7]

Both LVG and Mou got fired the moment they failed to qualify to make it in the CL and that despite winning important trophies such as the Europa League and the FA cup. I think its fair to say that the same yardstick should be used with Ole. Also I fail to understand this improvement thing. We're sitting at 9th place with the likes of Sheffield United, Leicester, Everton and Wolves ahead of us. The gap between us and the relegation zone is smaller then that between us and 3rd placed Leicester whom we bought an 80m rated player from. Surely that's not good enough.

He’s gone at the end of the season unless he wins Europa or finishes in top 4, no way he is allowed to continue otherwise.

Ole’s performance this season has been a shambles, it’s untenable he can be kept on unless there is a huge improvement which there is zero sign off. Beginning of the end if we get beaten tomorrow.

 

[Dve]

Before the season started, people said United would be mid table without Pogba. And now we´re without Rashford as well...

If Ole can secure CL next season, I don´t understand how there can be any discussion about sacking him at all.

 

[devilish]

Before the season started, people said United would be mid table without Pogba. And now we´re without Rashford as well...

If Ole can secure CL next season, I don´t understand how there can be any discussion about sacking him at all.

That's because genius spent 130m on 2 defenders in total disregard of midfield. Still we had a better team then fecking Sheffield United, Everton or wolves who are ahead of us

If Ole can't get us to CL qualification after spending 200m then he should be out

 

[Roboc7]

Before the season started, people said United would be mid table without Pogba. And now we´re without Rashford as well...

If Ole can secure CL next season, I don´t understand how there can be any discussion about sacking him at all.

In the unlikely event we qualify for Champions League he’ll keep his job, otherwise he’s sacked and at this moment in time that’s much more likely.

 

[ash_86]

In the unlikely event we qualify for Champions League he’ll keep his job, otherwise he’s sacked and at this moment in time that’s much more likely.

We kept hanging around top 4 playing Lingard and pereira . Now we have our players coming back from Injuries and Bruno. Results should improve from on here one can hope.

 

[RollieOle]

Heck yes I can blame him. Was Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku (not I did not mention Sanchez and Smalling) not gone under his watch and he failed to provide adequate cover for them? Did he not put all his eggs in the Pogba basket and relying totally on him when a) Pogba made it publicly known that he wanted to leave and b) Pogba has had a history of picking injuries consistently? Did he not also chose to play his first team regulars in all of the matches all of the time forcing injuries and recurrence of injuries to them?

Oh and did he not say that he has total control of the transfers into and out of United?

So yes, I blame Ole totally for where we are as a club right now. Do I want him to succeed? Yes because success for Ole is success for my club. Do I see him turning things around? Let’s see, we finally added a (nother) creative midfielder to our squad whom I believe will create more chances for our forwards - how Ole plays him will determine whether he can effect the changes and produce the resists we all wish to see at the club...

Do you know if he wanted them gone? Do you know if he was promised time and that is the reason he let them go to rebuild?

We dont know what discussions he has had beglhind closed doors and what control he has on transfers. We do know that the club has failed in the transfer market consistently since SAF left (Probably before that.)

We also know that the squad is not good enough. Before the season there was no sane fan saying we would win the league and with all the injuries there is no surprise where we are.

There is plenty of things you can critise Ole for but you dont need to critise the man for things that we have no idea if he is responsible for.

 

[RollieOle]

Last season were turned to shit after the PSG game.
The excuse for that was that our players weren't fit enough. "Give Ole a pre-season, then judge him".
Well, we did that and we are currently in 9th place.
So, now, "let's give him another transfer window to see how he does".
When he fails next season, what will be the next excuse/reason to allow Ole to continue to fail?

Also, regarding the long term plan - there is no plan. Ole will most likely be fired in the Summer, if results continue like this. and when the new manager comes in, we will likely see a new "vision/plan" which will also involve a different set of players.
I like that the board are giving the manager lee-way BUT they are giving the wrong manager lee-way. He is the worst manager we've had since SAF and this is the guy who we are backing more than the previous managers? It makes no sense.

He is the manager with the best ever start as Man United manager. Ever. The only manager in the history of football to over turn a 2-0 home defeat in the champions league. Ever.

He is not the worst manager we have had, that is just ridiculous. He has the worst squad that we have had post Fergie, there is no question about that.

1 year is not lee-way, he has brought in 5 players so far (only 3 really as Bruno and Odion have had no impact on the season so far). He needs to be given time, there is no quick fix, we are not turning this around anytime soon, it could be another 10 years, it is going to be a long hard road.

Manchester United have only ever been successful when a manager was given time. Luckily for us there was no fan forums, social media accounts or YouTube channels back in the 80s, history could be very different if there was.

 

[BR7]

Personally nothing, his CV was never good enough for the job and he should never have had it permanently. But if he gets a champs league spot then there will be clamour for him to be given a chance with another transfer window. I don’t agree. He seems incapable of sorting a defensive line out. Maguire, lindelof, AWB and Shaw cost around 185 mil and they are not bad defenders, they have poor coaches and an average manager

 

[momo83]

He is the manager with the best ever start as Man United manager. Ever. The only manager in the history of football to over turn a 2-0 home defeat in the champions league. Ever.

He is not the worst manager we have had, that is just ridiculous. He has the worst squad that we have had post Fergie, there is no question about that.

1 year is not lee-way, he has brought in 5 players so far (only 3 really as Bruno and Odion have had no impact on the season so far). He needs to be given time, there is no quick fix, we are not turning this around anytime soon, it could be another 10 years, it is going to be a long hard road.

Manchester United have only ever been successful when a manager was given time. Luckily for us there was no fan forums, social media accounts or YouTube channels back in the 80s, history could be very different if there was.

Roberto Di Matteo won the CL with Chelsea. What happened to that great manager who won CL when interim manager with Chelsea?

 

[momo83]

We kept hanging around top 4 playing Lingard and pereira . Now we have our players coming back from Injuries and Bruno. Results should improve from on here one can hope.

We were losing even when we had a full squad

 

[Someone]

I love Ole and I'd happily change my mind if he just starts winning games. But deep down we all know that he isn't a top manager at all, he made plenty of mistakes and we aren't improving. He took a struggling team and made it worse, got rid of a lot of players without planning replacements. He's just not good enough for united.

 

[cfkane]

I don't think he is a long term answer for us. The rest of this season, maybe next year depending on where we finish, but I do believe this, if we get that top class manager to take us back to the title, the job Ole has done in clearing out the deadwood and bringing in young players who want to play for the shirt, will be the bedrock foundation that helps that top class manager get that silverware we all want to see United hold aloft again, and I hope we are able to recognize his contribution in the future.

 

[momo83]

I don't think he is a long term answer for us. The rest of this season, maybe next year depending on where we finish, but I do believe this, if we get that top class manager to take us back to the title, the job Ole has done in clearing out the deadwood and bringing in young players who want to play for the shirt, will be the bedrock foundation that helps that top class manager get that silverware we all want to see United hold aloft again, and I hope we are able to recognize his contribution in the future.

Real didn’t get past the last 16 of the CL for I think 9 years. Jose Mourinho arrived and got to 3 consecutive CL SF, the year after left the won it under Ancelloti. While it’s entirely Ancelloti’s success, an argument could be made that Jose’s work in the previous 3 seasons contributed to it.

With Ole, has he improved any of the players that he’s signed? No. Has he improved our performances and implemented a style of play ? No. Has improved results? No.

So no. Ole doesn’t deserve any credit for any future success that his successor may achieve

 

[The Boy]

Real didn’t get past the last 16 of the CL for I think 9 years. Jose Mourinho arrived and got to 3 consecutive CL SF, the year after left the won it under Ancelloti. While it’s entirely Ancelloti’s success, an argument could be made that Jose’s work in the previous 3 seasons contributed to it.

With Ole, has he improved any of the players that he’s signed? No. Has he improved our performances and implemented a style of play ? No. Has improved results? No.

So no. Ole doesn’t deserve any credit for any future success that his successor may achieve

My view is that Ole should probably go at the end of the season as you have good young squad progressing together, but he probably doesn't have the managerial acumen to get them to take the next step up.

I think AWB has improved since he signed his attacking positioning is definitely getting better than his days at Palace, though his final delivery still leaves a bit to be desired. I know he didn't sign McT or Rashford,m but I think both have progressed under his coaching and I think it's a it unfair to say that that would have happened anyway.

But as for the original question in the thread, I think if he makes the CL and gives you two decent cup runs, I think he would deserve another season, but I think this is unlikely so he should probably be replaced at the beginning of the summer.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Erm: that’s exactly what he did!

And SAF has a torrid time to start with at the club.

Erm.. SAF did not have a torrid time to start with at the club, how can you know so little about your own club and it’s biggest legend @sammsky1 ?

In the time Ole has been manager SAF had taken United from 21st to 2nd, and finished that first full season in 2nd with a 57.5% win-rate.

Night and Day to the shit we’ve been served up during Ole’s start, yet used once again in this debate by an extremely misinformed Manchester United fan.

 

[SAFMUTD]

He would have to change his loser speach to begin with, no more “the kids” “process” “rebuild” nonsense, he would have to take responsibility for the state of the team instead of trying to normalize it.

Then I would need to see him implement a football style but that’s simply not going to happen, if he hasn't been able to do it in over a year he wont do it now.

So I think the only way would be going to another team, in a competitive league, and prove himself as a top manager. But that’s highly unlikely I dont think he would even be allowed to get near a team in a top league anymore.

 

[sammsky1]

Erm.. SAF did not have a torrid time to start with at the club, how can you know so little about your own club and it’s biggest legend @sammsky1 ?

In the time Ole has been manager SAF had taken United from 21st to 2nd, and finished that first full season in 2nd with a 57.5% win-rate.

Night and Day to the shit we’ve been served up during Ole’s start, yet used once again in this debate by an extremely misinformed Manchester United fan.

Erm. Ok then.

 

[Doracle]

Erm.. SAF did not have a torrid time to start with at the club, how can you know so little about your own club and it’s biggest legend @sammsky1 ?

In the time Ole has been manager SAF had taken United from 21st to 2nd, and finished that first full season in 2nd with a 57.5% win-rate.

Night and Day to the shit we’ve been served up during Ole’s start, yet used once again in this debate by an extremely misinformed Manchester United fan.

Maybe Sammsky’s taking a slightly longer view of Sir Alex’s start, given how long he was in charge. How do his win percentages in the full seasons of 1988-89 and 1989-90 compare to Ole’s this season - by when he’d already had 2-3 years to implement his ideas and build his team?

It’s perfectly fair to say that Sir Alex had a better career behind him to justify greater faith but let’s not pretend the first few years weren’t, by and large, a struggle.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Maybe Sammsky’s taking a slightly longer view of Sir Alex’s start, given how long he was in charge. How do his win percentages in the full seasons of 1988-89 and 1989-90 compare to Ole’s this season - by when he’d already had 2-3 years to implement his ideas and build his team?

It’s perfectly fair to say that Sir Alex had a better career behind him to justify greater faith but let’s not pretend the first few years weren’t, by and large, a struggle.

No-one is pretending anything. Fergie had a great start, not a torrid start as the poster claimed.

The poster isn’t taking a longer term view of that start as he’s comparing him to Ole now, who’s been in the job 14 months.

Fergie’s problems kicked in long after he’d already proven to the club and board what he could do at United with, in large, someone else’s squad.

That’s not even mentioning his career before United.

In short, SAF earned the patience shown to him during 89-90, and hell, even in that shittest of seasons he won the FA Cup which was much more prestigious than it is today. Let’s see if Ole manages that shall we as he’s defo getting the rest of the season to show his worth.

 

[RedBanker]

Maybe Sammsky’s taking a slightly longer view of Sir Alex’s start, given how long he was in charge. How do his win percentages in the full seasons of 1988-89 and 1989-90 compare to Ole’s this season - by when he’d already had 2-3 years to implement his ideas and build his team?

It’s perfectly fair to say that Sir Alex had a better career behind him to justify greater faith but let’s not pretend the first few years weren’t, by and large, a struggle.

This has been done to the death but do enlighten me about the differences in the landscape of football in 1988 and 2020.

 

[MrBest]

I am Ole out and have been for a while. There is nothing he can do to change my mind because I am tired of having endless hope with no substance. Ole will always be a legend in my mind but his ability as a manager and coach belongs in Europes lower leagues. He has been beyond terrible, worse than Moyes. He has now spent a gross amount of almost 200m but stripped the squad so thin it had no impact. In fact, defence is where I expected us to be good but we have been really poor and without many injuries apart from left back and we all know that position is still up for debate. The thing that really frightens me about Ole is how he still insists Lingard should be part of the squad. I don't wonder why Gomes would want to leave because even in the 6 games he has played, he has showed a lot more ability than Jesse. Andreas is also a terrible player but seeing as we don't have anyone there, i will let Ole off. No style, no plan b, poor defending, cannot open a defence, side way passes, no triangles, no press are all reason why he should not even manage a relegation team and he showed that when at Cardiff. Ole has one new lease of life, i hope he starts picking up the points as he now has Fernandes to create. Mctominay and Pogba are max 4 weeks away so should be back for the last push where we have a decent run of games. 10 wins would make me happy, but it will not be enough unless there is a drastic change in style of play. Fed up of "trying" to counter attack.

 

[RollieOle]

Roberto Di Matteo won the CL with Chelsea. What happened to that great manager who won CL when interim manager with Chelsea?

Who said he was a great manager?

Roberto Di Matteo won the CL with Chelsea. What happened to that great manager who won CL when interim manager with Chelsea?

I dont know why you are asking about Di Matteo, is that who you would like to see replace Ole? A better option than Poch perhaps as he has actually won something in hos career, Poch hasn't even a sports day medal to his name from school.

I have never said that Ole was the greatest manager ever. I was reaponding to a previous post who claimed that he was the worst manager post Fergie which is untrue. Please re-read

 

[The Boy]

Erm.. SAF did not have a torrid time to start with at the club, how can you know so little about your own club and it’s biggest legend @sammsky1 ?

In the time Ole has been manager SAF had taken United from 21st to 2nd, and finished that first full season in 2nd with a 57.5% win-rate.

Night and Day to the shit we’ve been served up during Ole’s start, yet used once again in this debate by an extremely misinformed Manchester United fan.

This is harsh on @sammsky1 , though I don't get the SAF Ole comparisons as the game is unrecognisable today to how it was then, his start could easily be described as torrid.

SAF took over in November 1986 you were 21st he pulled you back to 11th
After his first summer he bought in 4 players and yes in the 87/88 season made 2nd
His third season was awful bought in 5 players but at Christmas we all thought you'd be relegated, you ended the 89/90 season 13th but you won the FA Cup
90/91 you finished 6th and lost at Anfield 4-0, but won the cup winners cup

This in no way means Ole will come good but calling someone uninformed and suggest someone knows nothing about Utd or Ferguson because they called this torrid is well over the top. I remember united fans at the time who thought SAF was dreadful.