"I am still a Liverpool fan!!"
What would make you change your opinion on Ole
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
1. We needed a proven CB. Yes, we could have spent 20 or 30 and bought someone who might grow into the position. We just weren't in a position to take a chance. We did that with Bailley. PL-proven CBs go for 60 and up and Maguire was available. The bottom line is
Shaw/Williams........Maguire......Lindelof.......AWB
is a much better defense than
Young/Shaw............Lindelof/Bailley/Jones........Rojo/Smalling......Valencia/Darmian.
I don't think anyone can say otherwise.
2 and 3. I agree it's all about the squad strength. You didn't answer my other question, though, related to the squad:
Do you really think Ole decided to NOT buy any Forwards and Midfielders last summer? Really? Or do you think he and the club tried but nothing good developed? What's the more likely scenario? Even big clubs can't just snap their fingers and get transfers done.
4. I don't know anything about Carrick, Dempsey and Hartis as coaches so I'm not going to comment. A manager should have his choice of staff so no one should have stopped him from hiring who he wanted. If he chooses unwisely, that will cost him.
What? You're twisting my words. Where did i even hint at everything to be completed in one window?
That was my argument.
Like you said, ''In real life, clubs have budgets''. So there is an opportunity cost. So it was his choice. Wouldn't it make sense to upgrade your positions of utmost importance first?
We have Lingard playing AM, who hasn't contributed anything in a year. Yet you're saying ''It's all part of the plan...a very clear and obvious plan that’s been in place since Ole started and is being followed to the letter''.
This plan where we overplay our players into the ground whilst carrying injuries (Rashford,McTominay,Pogba) then desperately overpay for Bruno & any old striker who will come here on loan in the January window, what a marvelous plan:
We are overpaying because of this plan. What do you have to say about that?
All that's missing is the laa at the end of your post. It would all make sense then.
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Well I'm quite bad really, because during the matches, casting a steely eye upon the physical evidence on pitch, I generally become totally Ole out.
What system we see, when we see it, is very poor. With this being the case for a time period of more than enough leeway I cannot in the moment logically consider being Ole in. There is zero evidence of training ground drills making their way to match day. Off the ball movement, general positional intelligence (strikers actually getting into goalscoring areas), passing patterns, set piece proficiency - both attack wise and defensively; all are lacking. Overall it seems like Ole desperately needs to bring in some expert coaches.
But then after some time elapses, after the emotions of the match day thread subside, I take a moment to think about the virtue of patience and the realities of how empires aren't built in a day. I take the time to consider the positives around Ole's tenure so far.
We've had more than enough evidence now of how long it takes managers to shape their own squad. When a manager decides a player and his mentality isn't for him it takes time to jettison said individual. Then there's probably at least 33% of each inherited squad that a manager would rather not be there. With each individual coming and going there is a dressing room/training ground shift in togetherness. If we think back to what made the 99 team so strong, or in general Sir Alex's squads, it was respect, accountability, a strong thread of understanding throughout the squad.
I'm finally starting to accept that getting on the road to a recreation of that takes time. Ole isn't half having as tough a time of it as you can imagine: the amount of articles written about every little issue; the results themselves; Poch's sudden availability, amongst more besides. Ole has held himself throughout as well as, if not better than any other manager might have. Meanwhile, if you believe what you read, players are coming out in his defence, urging the board to stick by him.
We've certainly been at many crossroads that's for sure, but I like to think of the current time as a very important one for persisting with the culture change. In my opinion, Ole is succeeding with his current remit of keeping the ship on course, managing the constant to-ing and fro-ing of the day to day tide as he builds toward that goal of a well oiled entity, the likes of which we haven't seen for well on the way to a decade.
The thing is I don't trust a new manager to continue the work that Ole and it has to be said, Ed of late, have started in moving to redress the footballing world's perception of Manchester United: - how we deal with agents, how we target players, the noises we allow the media to make and what we feed them, nurturing the lifeblood from our youth system. There is evidence of stabilisation in this collective regard.
There's much work to be done across the board and most certainly on the pitch of course; but starting it all again, that journey of however many years it takes a manager to construct a unit in his image, whilst remaining true to a club ethos....I don't fancy chucking Ole to the Lions just yet.
What system we see, when we see it, is very poor. With this being the case for a time period of more than enough leeway I cannot in the moment logically consider being Ole in. There is zero evidence of training ground drills making their way to match day. Off the ball movement, general positional intelligence (strikers actually getting into goalscoring areas), passing patterns, set piece proficiency - both attack wise and defensively; all are lacking. Overall it seems like Ole desperately needs to bring in some expert coaches.
But then after some time elapses, after the emotions of the match day thread subside, I take a moment to think about the virtue of patience and the realities of how empires aren't built in a day. I take the time to consider the positives around Ole's tenure so far.
We've had more than enough evidence now of how long it takes managers to shape their own squad. When a manager decides a player and his mentality isn't for him it takes time to jettison said individual. Then there's probably at least 33% of each inherited squad that a manager would rather not be there. With each individual coming and going there is a dressing room/training ground shift in togetherness. If we think back to what made the 99 team so strong, or in general Sir Alex's squads, it was respect, accountability, a strong thread of understanding throughout the squad.
I'm finally starting to accept that getting on the road to a recreation of that takes time. Ole isn't half having as tough a time of it as you can imagine: the amount of articles written about every little issue; the results themselves; Poch's sudden availability, amongst more besides. Ole has held himself throughout as well as, if not better than any other manager might have. Meanwhile, if you believe what you read, players are coming out in his defence, urging the board to stick by him.
We've certainly been at many crossroads that's for sure, but I like to think of the current time as a very important one for persisting with the culture change. In my opinion, Ole is succeeding with his current remit of keeping the ship on course, managing the constant to-ing and fro-ing of the day to day tide as he builds toward that goal of a well oiled entity, the likes of which we haven't seen for well on the way to a decade.
The thing is I don't trust a new manager to continue the work that Ole and it has to be said, Ed of late, have started in moving to redress the footballing world's perception of Manchester United: - how we deal with agents, how we target players, the noises we allow the media to make and what we feed them, nurturing the lifeblood from our youth system. There is evidence of stabilisation in this collective regard.
There's much work to be done across the board and most certainly on the pitch of course; but starting it all again, that journey of however many years it takes a manager to construct a unit in his image, whilst remaining true to a club ethos....I don't fancy chucking Ole to the Lions just yet.
Well Id rather see us spend 30m on a promising punt then 80m with no chance in hell of ever becoming WC especially since we work on a limited budget and we had a certain midfield to cater for. Sure the defence is better now then before however that improvement is certainly not worth 130m. Also it meant nothing considering we had the worst start since 1989 which was quite predictable since we started the season with basically no midfield.
Regarding your second comment, Ole should have known that like any other club which doesn't run on petrodollars, we work on a budget. He should have also known that if he spent 130m on defenders then there will be little/no budget to spend on anything else really. So that's on him as well. He chose to blow most of our budget on two decent but hardly WC defenders, the most expensive of whom, used to play with a team who are now 3rd without him. Leicester must have laughed their way to the bank.
Ole got his priority wrong during the summer, he overrated the kids which then forced him to play the same players again and again and he didn't prioritised on what was important which added more fatigue on players. We're currently ninth, with the worst start since 1989 and below 'super clubs' like Sheffield United, Everton, Wolves and Leicester. We're closer to 18th place West Ham (11 points) then 3rd place Leicester (15 points) ie the club we stripped that 80m rated CB from. That's unacceptable.
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You keep saying Maguire is not WC and yet he is a starter on England's squad that is ranked 4th in the world coming off a very good WC. We also sold Lukaku for 73m so I think we had the funds for other transfers. I'm fairly certain the club tried to replace Herrera and Lukaku and it just didn't work out.
So on your limited budget you want to hire a new manager for millions and millions like what we did with LvG and Mourinho. Sounds really smart.
I want to see consistently good football. Scraped wins mean nothing to me in this context. Even then I wouldn't be convinced he's the right man moving forward. Said football would have to continue all next season too.
I would give hime one more season on the basis he got all his transfers right this season. One more summer with another 3-4 correct signings and the season thats follows. If he does not improve immensely then will drop the white towel and will change to Ole out gang.
Cant judge the man on this season. Our best player has been out injured all season. Our two best attackers have been out for considerable periods of time. Our most consistent performer has been out injured also.
The board has sold or let go 8 first team players and has only brought in 2 proper first team players at the start of the season, Dan James being a signing for the future.
Back the manager in the summer, fufil this long term vision that we have been hearing about, then we can properly judge Ole as a manager.
The board has sold or let go 8 first team players and has only brought in 2 proper first team players at the start of the season, Dan James being a signing for the future.
Back the manager in the summer, fufil this long term vision that we have been hearing about, then we can properly judge Ole as a manager.
Good post
Good post
He’s never gonna be good enough.
You know he's been a manager for 10 years right
? You think 10 years and a season and a half at United is not enough to judge whether a manager is good enough for us or not?So much of this is absolutely spot on, I will hold my hands up and say I thought we were right to spend big on the defence last summer but after seeing how dead we have look creativity wise this season, however right now it's starting to look like a really costly mistake indeed.
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Use any metrics you want. Our defence this year is much worse than all, bar maybe probably moyes season
Heck yes I can blame him. Was Fellaini, Herrera and Lukaku (not I did not mention Sanchez and Smalling) not gone under his watch and he failed to provide adequate cover for them? Did he not put all his eggs in the Pogba basket and relying totally on him when a) Pogba made it publicly known that he wanted to leave and b) Pogba has had a history of picking injuries consistently? Did he not also chose to play his first team regulars in all of the matches all of the time forcing injuries and recurrence of injuries to them?
Oh and did he not say that he has total control of the transfers into and out of United?
So yes, I blame Ole totally for where we are as a club right now. Do I want him to succeed? Yes because success for Ole is success for my club. Do I see him turning things around? Let’s see, we finally added a (nother) creative midfielder to our squad whom I believe will create more chances for our forwards - how Ole plays him will determine whether he can effect the changes and produce the resists we all wish to see at the club...
Wtf. Taffarel was part of Brazil WC winning team. Was he WC? Of course he wasn't. Same with Maguire who is neither WC nor worth 80m. We paid premium cause he is English.
Pushing lukaku out was also a big mistake. Sure everyone likes to see fast paced football. However most of the time you want a strong and powerful striker who can break defenses up. Ole recognised that mistake this January by first going for Haaland then he settled for ighalo. We have a manager who is getting on the job training and we are the ones who are suffering for his inexperience
I don't blame fans. It is easy to be carried away by big signings. Maguire also served Woodward's agenda well. He hit the headlines by being the most expensive defender in the world for a player who was previously on a Leicester FC salary. His signing also made it easier for the club to shut doors after just 3 signings made
I do blame ole though cause he should have known better. Clubs whose not running on petrodollars cannot sign 4-5 players on 50m - 80m a pop. That's not possible. He also pushed lukaku out prior of securing a replacement. That was a huge mistake as well
Honestly, if Ole started doing any of the theatrics we saw Jose do when he wasn't getting his way, such as playing McTominay as a centerback or putting Dalot up as a winger, then it's Ole Out for me. Or if Ole started publicly dressing down his players, as Jose did, or if it becomes clear he's lost the dressing = Ole Out.
Winning 1-0 boring games would get us back up the table but I want to enjoy the thrill of watching a great attacking team again. If Ole started being ultra pragmatic like LVG was, where he stifled all creativity out of the team, I would also switch to Ole Out.
It will be interesting to see how Ighalo is used, if Ole deploys him to be the back-to-goal target man, because that is not usually how United play and it's not usually what anyone wants to see. If Ighalo becomes a glorified Lukaku / Fellaini, then I would not be sad to see Ole replaced.
It's about enjoying watching this team. It's about playing in a recognizable United style that is worthy of past heroes.
Lets just make one thing clear, Klopp would not have spending 200 on Maguire, AWB, James and Bruno Fernandez.
Klopp loves players who can comfortably run with the ball and can press.. None of the above players would make his Liverpool team or even Man City's team.
I'm probably been a bit harsh on Bruno but I just don't see that element to his game.
Klopp loves players who can comfortably run with the ball and can press.. None of the above players would make his Liverpool team or even Man City's team.
I'm probably been a bit harsh on Bruno but I just don't see that element to his game.
To change my mind, he'd need to become a lot better at his job.
So Sporting’s desperate Chairman says we paid over the odds for Bruno? Come on, you must know how weak that argument is. We just paid £46m upfront to sign a regular Portuguese International in his prime in a world where Everton supposedly just turned down £80m for Richarlison...even if Bruno turns out to be hopeless nobody is going to tell me we overpaid.
You understand opportunity cost so you must understand my point...Utd spent their budget in the Summer on defenders, the opportunity cost was not signing midfielders/strikers. If we had signed a midfielder or a striker, we wouldn’t have been able to sign two defenders.
I understand exactly what Ole was thinking. Sort out the defence first and make us difficult to beat. It hasn’t quite worked out that way in practice but whatever he had done, people would have argued he should have done the opposite so it’s lose-lose.
For me we are being linked the to the right players, our youngsters will continue to improve - but if we get 3-4 players in during the summer, avoid the insane injuries and still not dramatically improve - then he is in trouble.
But I would under no circumstances fire him now - I would give him this next transfer window with backing to get 3 quality player sin - while Selling Pogba, and I Think we have a cracking team by the start of the next season. If we don't improve then - he is in trouble. But I am convinced if we can get any 2 players of Sancho, Maddison and Grealish - we will improve a lot.
But I would under no circumstances fire him now - I would give him this next transfer window with backing to get 3 quality player sin - while Selling Pogba, and I Think we have a cracking team by the start of the next season. If we don't improve then - he is in trouble. But I am convinced if we can get any 2 players of Sancho, Maddison and Grealish - we will improve a lot.
Wow.. the post must be so light for you
Won quite a few trophies in that time. Kind of defeats your point.You know he's been a manager for 10 years right
That's assuming there is one and the club hasn't been lying to the fans
feck me
.. You think winning the league that is ranked 22nd twice 8 fecking years ago and relegating Cardiff defeats my point that he's not good enough??? Or are you talking about his playing career.Just look at how he's spent his managerial career so far.. His last achievement was winning the Norwegian league ranked 22nd in the world eight fecking years ago. His time in the premier league has him relegating Cardiff followed by a poor showing in the championship. His time with us has us on course to our lowest point tally in over 30 years.
How anyone thinks he needs a fit squad or transfer window before they can judge whether he's good enough for us is beyond me. He doesn't even need a squad to know if he's good enough.. He has been in the game for 10 fecking years and we can judge whether he's good enough for us by his managerial career not when Pogba and Mctominay are fit or when we replace Lingard with Grealish. You look at Steve Bruce managerial career and you know he's not good enough for us.. You look at Eddie Howe managerial career and you know he's not good enough for us. Why is it Ole who needs a fit squad or transfer window before we can judge if he's good enough for us even after spending 10 years in coaching.. Even after leading us to our lowest point tally in 30 years.
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So all just no opinions and no facts.feck me
Just look at how he's spent his managerial career so far.. His last achievement was winning the Norwegian league ranked 22nd in the world eight fecking years ago. His time in the premier league has him relegating Cardiff followed by a poor showing in the championship. His time with us has us on course to our lowest point tally in over 30 years.
How anyone thinks he needs a fit squad or transfer window before they can judge whether he's good enough for us is beyond me. He doesn't even need a squad to know if he's good enough.. He has been in the game for 10 fecking years and we can judge whether he's good enough for us by his managerial career not when Pogba and Mctominay are fit or when we replace Lingard with Grealish.
Im guessing SAF also just wont one shitty league before he arrived, in your opinion?
Last season were turned to shit after the PSG game.
The excuse for that was that our players weren't fit enough. "Give Ole a pre-season, then judge him".
Well, we did that and we are currently in 9th place.
So, now, "let's give him another transfer window to see how he does".
When he fails next season, what will be the next excuse/reason to allow Ole to continue to fail?
Also, regarding the long term plan - there is no plan. Ole will most likely be fired in the Summer, if results continue like this. and when the new manager comes in, we will likely see a new "vision/plan" which will also involve a different set of players.
I like that the board are giving the manager lee-way BUT they are giving the wrong manager lee-way. He is the worst manager we've had since SAF and this is the guy who we are backing more than the previous managers? It makes no sense.
SAF won the league with a side called Aberdeen. Aberdeen who?
He beat Celtic/Rangers, which is almost impossible.
And let's not forget that he won a EU trophy.
Sides like Aberdeen should not be winning EU trophies.
Had Ole not got Cardiff relegated. Had he won the league in Norway with a side who has never won a league before. Had he won a EU trophy. Then and only then could we compare Ole to SAF.
And let's not forget, at MUFC, Ole has resided over our worst start in the history of the EPL. Why is this fact being ignored?
Ole's coaching staff includes a experienced Phelan who's last role was as a DOF at some Australian team no ones heard of and was said to have been doing a poor job considering, a u18 coach in McKenna and a complete novice in Carrick.
So,not only are Ole's credentials for the main role questionable but also the coaching staff he surrounds himself with.
So,not only are Ole's credentials for the main role questionable but also the coaching staff he surrounds himself with.
Don’t really know what you’re on about to be honest...I’ll just repeat that I think it starts to look like a clear agenda when you use a 6 month loan signing as a stick to beat a manager with...
People will point to the injuries we have as a reason to give him more time, but there’s evidence that some of these injuries are of OGS‘s own making, like Pogba being rushed back for Rochdale and his most recent one during the New Year period where it was all “Pogba will be available” then three days later it’s “He’s out for a few weeks”
And then Rashford getting played with a back injury, causing him to be out for weeks. I don’t know whether McTominays injury was directly correlated to potential negligence but he was playing a lot of minutes at the time. Then that Maguire hip injury scare which really could have been bad.
Injuries do happen naturally unfortunately but injuries where we’ve mis-managed the situation is bad. This is why going into this season with a skeleton crew was suicide.
Does any club want a manager who potentially doesnt know how to handle injury management of players or worse, a manager who desperately wants to risk injuring players who aren’t fully fit, to save themselves at the risk of harming the players’ long term career?
And then Rashford getting played with a back injury, causing him to be out for weeks. I don’t know whether McTominays injury was directly correlated to potential negligence but he was playing a lot of minutes at the time. Then that Maguire hip injury scare which really could have been bad.
Injuries do happen naturally unfortunately but injuries where we’ve mis-managed the situation is bad. This is why going into this season with a skeleton crew was suicide.
Does any club want a manager who potentially doesnt know how to handle injury management of players or worse, a manager who desperately wants to risk injuring players who aren’t fully fit, to save themselves at the risk of harming the players’ long term career?
Top 4 and/or EL win. Maybe a FA cup win, but i doubt it. He has had so many chances to climb up the league but wasted them all.
Our attacking and set piece play has been dreadful most of the time.
If that doesnt happen I want Poch or Allegri.
Our attacking and set piece play has been dreadful most of the time.
If that doesnt happen I want Poch or Allegri.
If we keep playing dire football and be clueless on the pitch, then he needs to get us CL football next season, either by winning the EL or getting top 4 place (or top 5 if City is banned?) to change my mind.
Or, if we somehow show some progress, play good attacking football, and are able to break down teams that sit deep, then a place within top 6 and going far in the EL is good enough for me.
Or, if we somehow show some progress, play good attacking football, and are able to break down teams that sit deep, then a place within top 6 and going far in the EL is good enough for me.
Erm: that’s exactly what he did!
And SAF has a torrid time to start with at the club.
I’m not saying OGS will defo replicate any of SAFs success but the start points and initial troubles are similar.
Well we all suffered under LvG and most of Mou's time with some pretty lousy football. IMO when we have played well under Ole the football has been more attractive and hopeful than what I saw from both the great managers in LvG and Mou. Do we need to be more consistent, hell yes.
It was reported that Man City offered 70m and 278k a month wages for Maguire before we bought him. I guess you know better than Pep and other experts when it comes to who is WC or not.
He would have to become a good manager over night for me to change my mind at this stage.
I have seen enough to know he isn't good enough
I have seen enough to know he isn't good enough