What would make you change your opinion on Ole

DevilRed

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Shite, its easy to lose context for me - we would need to only drop 4pts from now until May to hit 70points. Jesus. In other words, we are probably going to finish the season on around 55pts aren't we?
Injuries coupled with our shite squad depth have really derailed us this season.
 

billybee99

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If we finish next season outside the top 4 then I might begin to waver, but it depends on circumstances. If we spend this summer 'negotiating' for Sancho, Maddison and Grealish but get none and end up starting next season with the return of Sanchez as our attacking reinforcement then I can't see myself turning against him at all.
Does this not perfectly capture the delusion of the Ole-in crowd?
 

romufc

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Why should we get rid of "deadwood" then?

Give chance to players like Lingard, Darmian, - they can turn up like Messi and Maldini in 3-4 years time. That would make people change their mind, no?

If we gave every crap player or manager time we would sooner or later indeed end up in relegation zone.
Because they have actually been given time.

Lingard has been given 4/5 years, Darmian the same and they proved they cannot do anything. We didn'g get rid of either within 1 year.

Ole has not been given a season yet.
 

billybee99

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Every single youth player has taken big strides since Ole was appointed manager. So that in conjunction with playing with a skeleton crew in the midfield large parts of the season, I will be happy to change my opinion is things to not improve at the first half of next season. I'm not going to give verdict on a manager who has to play with players everyone here agrees aren't good enough for the club. There's a lot of moaning when we play those players, but it's not like we have options, is there.
Chong, Gomez and Garner say hi.
 

romufc

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He has till the end of season to change my mind.

Top 4, a trophy and goals is what it would take to change my mind about sacking him.
 

Enigma_87

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My point is, there's always something a player or manager can do to change your opinion on them.

I think Lingard is not good enough for us and should be moved on, but if he suddenly started banging in goals and getting loads of assists, then my opinion would obviously change. Your opinion should change based on the subject's actions. It should be fluid, not fixed.

Therefore, saying that there's nothing Ole can do that will change your mind about wanting to get rid of him - is surely ridiculous, no?
At this point this is unrealistic.

There's a better chance of Lingard becoming a Ballon D'or contender at the moment than Ole turning it around.

People have to understand that United is a huge club and keeping manager like him for prolonged period of time will make it even harder for us to get back on top.

In terms of what he can do to change my mind?

Get a job somewhere else, build a reputation, then perhaps win a cup or title, then he can knock on United's door.
 
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The below is an insult.
Regulus Arcturus Black said:At Juve, last Summer for the 3rd time, are you playing stupid or really this thick?
Nar it's not, I mentioned 3 times previously to said poster that Sarri was made Juventus manager last Summer and yet said poster continued to bang on about the Summer of 2018 when Sarri was Chelsea manager and call me "stupid" and "the owner of stupid".
My post is giving the poster a choice to admit that he was just playing dumb, or he simply was that thick.

That's not an insult, he has a multiple choice of facts.
 

Enigma_87

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Because they have actually been given time.

Lingard has been given 4/5 years, Darmian the same and they proved they cannot do anything. We didn'g get rid of either within 1 year.

Ole has not been given a season yet.
Bebe was given 7 games. Dong was given 1.

Ole has been given 14 months. More than enough to judge if someone is shit.
 

billybee99

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Moyes took over the champions, Ole took over one of the most miss managed big clubs in recent history, not exactly like for like. The club is not in it's worst state imo, but in a genuine rebuild full of very talented young players that can only grow together but with obvious shortcomings that can only be addressed in the market and the natural inconsistency of youth. If this time next year we are in the same situation i'll eat humble pie.
Ole took over the exact same squad from which Jose was sacked and he made it worse. Jose was in full self-sabotage/taking my toys and going home mode and he still had a better points total and League standing than Ole.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Bebe was given 7 games. Dong was given 1.

Ole has been given 14 months. More than enough to judge if someone is shit.
Yep, you can sometimes tell immediately whether someone is not going to pan out. I wouldn't have judged Ole after 5-10 games, not at all. But 14months later and we're not seeing any kind of improvement anywhere. Anywhere at all.
 

Deery

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In think my opinion has kind of softened on Ole, maybe the new signings have helped.

He does put out decent teams and at least try’s to win games so am willing to give him another chance.
 

Maluco

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A top 4 finish or a Europa League win by this point.

If there were any positive signs on the pitch, things would be different, but he just hasn’t shown enough, and he needs to do something special now to persuade me he deserves another season.

Plodding along to a top half finish and no cups, just compounds what the standard of most of our games demonstrates....that he isn’t good enough.

After 14 months, show us something special, or make way for someone who can consistently compete on the pitch and who is the required quality and pedigree to be presiding over such a massive club.
 
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Come on now, it really isn't. You've used a tiny sample size to argue that us having our best and most creative player available wouldn't have lead to even a couple more wins. I don't think you really believe that.
Maybe. I really think we’d have turned many of those draws in to wins if he’d been playing. And the momentum would have helped.
Nah, it's true. Pogba would have had 3-4 goals and at least 4-5 assists. That's enough to have had at least an extra 6-7 points that put us 4th. Injuries happen though so that's not the problem imo, the big mistake was to not pay what was needed for Bruno in the summer and enter the season with only one good creative player. Pogbas injury has highlighted our boards incompetence.
@Bilbo @El Zoido @jackal&hyde No, it's wishful thinking.

Pogba's last 10 Premier League starts = 4 losses, 5 draws, 1 win.

There's much more chance we'll be better with Bruno I'd say, as I think Ole will actually play him instead of Lingard or Andreas in the number 10 role.
 
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Lee565

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The football first and foremost, it's pretty hopeless, I could forgive him for finishing outside of the top 4 if we saw something promising on the pitch but we aren't and i would be deluding myself to create excuses for the complete lack of patterns and ideas to our football under him.

Even if we somehow got into the top 4 I would be dismayed at him staying on another season as I know we realistically wont be getting any closer to competing with liverpool, man city and the big European clubs out there with what Solskjear has the club producing on the pitch and he is still lacking in pulling power in bring the best and most promising players to the club to help get to the top.
 

Chipper

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Shite, its easy to lose context for me - we would need to only drop 4pts from now until May to hit 70points. Jesus. In other words, we are probably going to finish the season on around 55pts aren't we?
Yes, mid to high 50s seems about right.

Just had a look at some projections. Sporting Index and SpreadEx, 2 spread betting companies are both projecting us to finish on 55.5-57. FiveThirtyEight, a stats boffins site bang on 55.
 

Tom Cato

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Chong, Gomez and Garner say hi.
Garner has been given several first team games. He's been injured. Gomes has been injured but has seen first team minutes. The same with Chong.

Rashford, Greenwood, Williams, James, Tuanzebe, Wan-Bissaka and McTominay greet you back I guess?
 

Bastian

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If he started to come across as a leader and not a competition winner - if his team looked well coached - if he distanced himself just a fraction from the owners/board - if he hired coaches who could actually help him.

But I like him as the happy and motivated squad player he was.
 

USREDEVIL

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Would take a year of good results and good football. Just like it's taken a year of the opposite for me to go from Ole in (give him a chance) to Ole out (I've seen enough).
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Can we all agree that Ole's track record or CV shows he's under qualified to coach one of the biggest clubs in the world. When such an unqualified person is in charge of such a big organization all eyes are on him and he is put on a very short leash. Meaning results are expected no matter the circumstances or else people can easily criticize him "I told you he wasn't qualified for the job". Looking at his CV the only way Ole should keep his job is if he actually overachieves.. That's how he got the job in the first place.

He's currently underachieving and is now proving he is not qualified enough for the job. He has to overachieve again if he wants to stay in charge. And by that I mean results and performances. Nobody gives a shit about what an under qualified manager does outside the pitch. Whether he promotes youth or clears deadwood or buys the right players.. All these can still be done when he's gone.

None of Guardiola or Zidane would have lasted long if they didn't deliver instantly. Those two managers were clearly unqualified for their jobs but they didn't just achieve things. They overachieved and did things none of their predecessors did. That's how an under qualified manager should keep his job. You have to constantly prove you're fit for the job because everybody thinks you're not good enough when they look at your past. The only way an under qualified manager like Ole should keep his job is by overachieving and shocking everyone. Right now he has us at 8th on course to our lowest points tally in 30 years, all this has shown is that he is living up to his poor CV
 

Jezpeza

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I seem to recall that he had a pretty horrific away record against the other top 6 sides. Something like 1 win in 16. He got a lot of criticism for it at some point in his role there. Uniteds away record against the big six under Ole - PL 9 W 6 L 3. Maybe we could have joint managers. Poch takes home matches and Ole away.
Haha. Well i think we are just inconsistent. We’ve done all right against top teams. When teams park the bus against us we struggle to play up through the thirds because we havent got much creativity or nous. Also no one else has a point of the pool this season. Too much focus on management ‘philosophy’ these days. I’ve Seen liverpool blow teams away this season and then abandon that next game and scrape a win on set pieces. I just think with some managers there is only a plan A and it gets predictable. Look at Wenger. We think we have it bad, Arsenal have less success in the last 15 years than we do in the last 4. Its kind of gone under the radar because they constantly got into the top 4 and into the latter stages of the CL where theyd get bashed 34 - 2 on aggregate because they would try and outfootball Barca or Bayern. Most of that was down to Wenger and his ‘philosophy’ which saw them unable to beat the other big teams and regularly fall down at teams like Stoke, but play attractive football and never do too bad. I keep saying i think weve been playing to bypass midfield this season so would like to see what happens to integrate Bruno
 

Bilbo

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Can we all agree that Ole's track record or CV shows he's under qualified to coach one of the biggest clubs in the world. When such an unqualified person is in charge of such a big organization all eyes are on him and he is put on a very short leash. Meaning results are expected no matter the circumstances or else people can easily criticize him "I told you he wasn't qualified for the job". Looking at his CV the only way Ole should keep his job is if he actually overachieves.. That's how he got the job in the first place.

He's currently underachieving and is now proving he is not qualified enough for the job. He has to overachieve again if he wants to stay in charge. And by that I mean results and performances. Nobody gives a shit about what an under qualified manager does outside the pitch. Whether he promotes youth or clears deadwood or buys the right players.. All these can still be done when he's gone.

None of Guardiola or Zidane would have lasted long if they didn't deliver instantly. Those two managers were clearly unqualified for their jobs but they didn't just achieve things. They overachieved and did things none of their predecessors did. That's how an under qualified manager should keep his job. You have to constantly prove you're fit for the job because everybody thinks you're not good enough when they look at your past. The only way an under qualified manager like Ole should keep his job is by overachieving and shocking everyone. Right now he has us at 8th on course to our lowest points tally in 30 years, all this has shown is that he is living up to his poor CV
All due respect mate. You keep asking these blanket questions which dont really prove anything.

Yes of course his CV makes him unqualified for the role. It goes without saying. What got him the job was how he performed in the best possible job interview - at the club. Since then we've clearly regressed but there are circumstances that make this less than clear cut, hence the 10 millions arguments that have followed. I still back the gut, the vision, the plan, whatever we want to call it.
 

Bilbo

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Haha. Well i think we are just inconsistent. We’ve done all right against top teams. When teams park the bus against us we struggle to play up through the thirds because we havent got much creativity or nous. Also no one else has a point of the pool this season. Too much focus on management ‘philosophy’ these days. I’ve Seen liverpool blow teams away this season and then abandon that next game and scrape a win on set pieces. I just think with some managers there is only a plan A and it gets predictable. Look at Wenger. We think we have it bad, Arsenal have less success in the last 15 years than we do in the last 4. Its kind of gone under the radar because they constantly got into the top 4 and into the latter stages of the CL where theyd get bashed 34 - 2 on aggregate because they would try and outfootball Barca or Bayern. Most of that was down to Wenger and his ‘philosophy’ which saw them unable to beat the other big teams and regularly fall down at teams like Stoke, but play attractive football and never do too bad. I keep saying i think weve been playing to bypass midfield this season so would like to see what happens to integrate Bruno
Agreed. Ole hasn't got a plan B because there isnt one available to him. Bruno allows us to play differently. Every player we add now adds strings to the bow and we will see if Ole is capable of utilising them
 

Jezpeza

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Agreed. Ole hasn't got a plan B because there isnt one available to him. Bruno allows us to play differently. Every player we add now adds strings to the bow and we will see if Ole is capable of utilising them
Agreed. Probably need another midfielder and a right winger as well now because i think Pogba will leave and then we’ll be stuck with Mata Pereira and Lingard as the other offensive/creative midfield options
 

reddevil80

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NOTHING.
I changed to ole out very shortly after seeing the team play like strangers, and he showed, not an inkling of - 1: what was happening on the pitch, 2: what was happening off the pitch, 3: how to alter tactics to suit the flow of the matches, 4: getting rid of " deadwood " without backup players in-situ, 5: his lack of passion on the sidelines.
 

Majima

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He needs to grow a pair and actually attack teams for once. Camping in our own half at home, token 88th min subs is such a cowardly mentality.
 

sunama

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How cruel of you suggest dropping this maestro

That is brilliant.
And the best part of it was when Ole was singing his praises. It almost felt like a parody video, in which Ole was going to burst out laughing after saying what he said.
It's shocking that Lingard (a first team regular) is so bad and that we have a manager who keeps picking him.
 

James Ward

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The ability to change formation and tactics to adapt to teams.
Every single game its his beloved 4-2-3-1 formation which is not working and not suiting the players.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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All due respect mate. You keep asking these blanket questions which dont really prove anything.

Yes of course his CV makes him unqualified for the role. It goes without saying. What got him the job was how he performed in the best possible job interview - at the club. Since then we've clearly regressed but there are circumstances that make this less than clear cut, hence the 10 millions arguments that have followed. I still back the gut, the vision, the plan, whatever we want to call it.
What kind of circumstances can make a squad that's better than Sheffield, Everton, and Wolves behind these teams. Are our players not better than the players of those teams?

Also if they told you that the vision you're backing - promoting youth, clearing deadwood and buying the right players is the clubs vision or plan and is not reliant on Ole, will you still want Ole to be the coach when we could get the likes of Rose, Nagelsmann, Pochettino by the end of the season?
 

sunama

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Last season the excuse was: our players are not fit enough and require a full pre-season.
This season, the excuse is:

Injuries coupled with our shite squad depth have really derailed us this season.
What will be the excuse next season?
 

sunama

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If he turned up at his next presser with a LFC tattoo on his forehead I might waiver in my support for him, but till such time blind faith it is for the foreseeable.
I think that's the first time you've been honest.
Your previous reasons for backing Ole made no sense at all.
This answer is the answer which I can logically accept and can't argue against.
 

Black Adder

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Him stepping away from the club.

Maybe then I would buy his "clubs best interest in heart" shit he's been banging about while dragging club to lower status than Mourinho did, which is some accomplishment given how toxic Jose was.
 

Class of 63

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I think that's the first time you've been honest.
Your previous reasons for backing Ole made no sense at all.
This answer is the answer which I can logically accept and can't argue against.
Aye, owt for a quiet life.

And as for being honest, what like those that conveniently overlook the wins Ole got before he got the Gig full-time when they're throwing stats around to justify their Ole 'out' stance, do me a favour
 

InspiRED

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At this point it would have to be something pretty drastic. Like a neurodegenerative condition or a faulty boiler or something.
 

friendlytramp

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I love him and the work he’s doing as I believe he is working to a medium term plan that requires some initial pain to generate some gains.

My opinion would change if we don’t invest in the summer and he makes excuses rather than calling out or walking away.