Which players are good enough?

[AP88]

Am sorry but I disagree.
Sane and Sterling are not better than Rashford and Martial, the difference is that they play in positive team whoose first aim is to attack like any top team should. So naturally their productivity and confidence to do things will be better, coupled with the fact that they have great support.

I dont like to make comparisons but if Pep was in charge of those young players he will make them better than they are curently showing.
Is not everything that is about quality, we have no imagination in our attacking play at all.

Rashford and Martial were better under Van Gaal....if he’d been allowed to continue his work with them they’d both be at least considered equal to Sane and Sterling, plus I feel Shaw would have been mentally and physically rehabilitated under LVG, rather than humiliated - there’s three potentially great United players for a decade. So the question is, was two thirds of Liverpool’s 2001 Micky mouse treble worth losing two years of proper development for some of the best young talents in Europe under Jose?

Even Lingard looked more useful under the previous manager, and I also think Lukaku is being subdued by Mourinho’s primitive attacking plan.

 

[pocco]

Don’t really get your point given that among those you’ve left out a whole load of them have won top honours.

I’m yet to see a football team with genuine world class players in every position. The greatest teams ever generally have one or two water carriers. Right now we are just lacking that talisman who can swing the game in our direction but there’s stacks of talent in the squad, far more than the four you mention.

How many have won top honours in the league and CL whilst being considered permanent fixtures in our first 11? The likes of Young, Jones and Smalling were backup players to Vidic, Rio etc when we last challenged on all fronts. The likes of Carrick and Valencia have done it for us but are a bit past their best and, in the case of Valencia, he's now playing a completely different role in the team.

You are right in that the best teams are generally afforded one or two water carriers, but we have more than one or two in our team, in my opinion. If our squad is so great then why are we struggling for top four so much the last few years and generally playing poor football? Why is Mourinho trying to play so defensively, as though he doesn't trust these players to compete otherwise? How many managers will we go through before people start to look at the recruitment of players as possibly being the issue?

 

[TheOrgazoid]

GK:
David De Gea - YES
Sergio Romero - YES
Joel Dinis Castro Pereira - YES
Kieran O'Hara - n/a

DF:
Victor Lindelof - NO
Eric Bailly - YES
Phil Jones - YES
Marcos Rojo - YES
Chris Smalling - YES
Daley Blind - NO
Luke Shaw - NO
Antonio Valencia - YES
Matteo Darmian - YES
Axel Tuanzebe - YES
Ro-Shaun Williams - n/a
Demerti Mitchell - n/a

MF:
Paul Pogba - YES
Jesse Lingard - NO
Michael Carrick - NO
Ander Herrera - NO
Marouane Fellaini - YES
Nemanja Matic - YES
Scott McTominay - YES
Angel Gomes - YES
Zachary Dearnley - n/a
Juan Mata - NO
Ashley Young - YES
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - NO

ST:
Romelu Lukaku - YES
Zlatan Ibrahimovic - YES
Anthony Martial - YES
Marcus Rashford - YES
James Wilson - NO

I have taken out players for consideration that are too unknown by me to be applicable:

• 4/4 goalkeepers are good enough for the whole squad
• 7/10 defenders are good enough for the whole squad
• 6/11 midfielders are good enough for the whole squad
• 4/5 strikers are good enough for the whole squad

Major investment - not just financial but also strategic temporal - needed for the entire attacking midfield.
The club have failed, misertably, terms of recruitment for this area since 2009.

 

[Murray3007]

De Gea and Pogba thats it, Martial, Rashford and Bailey look like have the potential but could also go the other way with the 3 of them.

 

[bananaman]

This place after a loss is incredible. Luke Chadwick, Darren Ferguson, Kuzscak, Ronnie Wallwork, Darron Gibson, etc all won the league.
Its a team/squad game. That squad is good enough to win the league. We havent won at Chelsea in years. it happens, they were always a boggie side. I remember going almost unbeaten except for losing to Chelsea home and away with Gavin peacock scoring. We were playing well until we got some big injuries. We just need to pick ourselves up for the next game and get on a run. 4 or 5 wins in a row will make a big difference.

 

[IAmAWinner]

It seems as if we are 12th in the league not 2nd by the reactions of some of the posters here.

 

[Marcky411]

GK:
David De Gea - YES
Sergio Romero - YES
Joel Dinis Castro Pereira - YES
Kieran O'Hara - n/a

DF:
Victor Lindelof - NO
Eric Bailly - YES
Phil Jones - YES
Marcos Rojo - YES
Chris Smalling - YES
Daley Blind - NO
Luke Shaw - NO
Antonio Valencia - YES
Matteo Darmian - YES
Axel Tuanzebe - YES
Ro-Shaun Williams - n/a
Demerti Mitchell - n/a

MF:
Paul Pogba - YES
Jesse Lingard - NO
Michael Carrick - NO
Ander Herrera - NO
Marouane Fellaini - YES
Nemanja Matic - YES
Scott McTominay - YES
Angel Gomes - YES
Zachary Dearnley - n/a
Juan Mata - NO
Ashley Young - YES
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - NO

ST:
Romelu Lukaku - YES
Zlatan Ibrahimovic - YES
Anthony Martial - YES
Marcus Rashford - YES
James Wilson - NO

I have taken out players for consideration that are too unknown by me to be applicable:

• 4/4 goalkeepers are good enough for the whole squad
• 7/10 defenders are good enough for the whole squad
• 6/11 midfielders are good enough for the whole squad
• 4/5 strikers are good enough for the whole squad

Major investment - not just financial but also strategic temporal - needed for the entire attacking midfield.
The club have failed, misertably, terms of recruitment for this area since 2009.

Thank goodness not everyone will agree with your assessment here but that is why we have a forum to share opinions. One thing is for sure that you and Mourinho are on the same page brawn before footballing talent, as long as a player is big and physical he fits into his plans (judging by the players brought in under Mourinho).
According to this the few creative players we have in the team are surplus and should be replaced, unbelievable. I suppose you are also one of the people complaining that we too often hoof the ball forward.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Most of your players are good enough to hold a place in a successful squad and I can't see United being trophy less at the end of the season (can't see the PL but you have a punchers chance of CL if the cards turn kindly for you). LC and FAC well within your grasp.
Valencia and Young are OK for now but a smooth transition to their replacement must be made.
Smalling, Shaw and Darmian are the ones that I would ship out first.

 

[prtk0811]

Rashford and Martial were better under Van Gaal....if he’d been allowed to continue his work with them they’d both be at least considered equal to Sane and Sterling, plus I feel Shaw would have been mentally and physically rehabilitated under LVG, rather than humiliated - there’s three potentially great United players for a decade. So the question is, was two thirds of Liverpool’s 2001 Micky mouse treble worth losing two years of proper development for some of the best young talents in Europe under Jose?

Even Lingard looked more useful under the previous manager, and I also think Lukaku is being subdued by Mourinho’s primitive attacking plan.

But we would never have attracted pogba Bailly ibra matic with lvg.

 

[lysglimt]

In my opinion - we are 2-3 quality players short of challenging for the title. Players who win you games - but you don't need 11 super-players to win titles. You need maybe 4-5 in every game and 6-7 who don't lose you games. The best example of this was John O'Shea, Denis Irwin, Ji Sung Park - players who always did what they should, and allowed the real stars to win the games for you.

We have a team that is almost good enough - but we lack a left-back, and a quality winger. If we had that - we could match City player for player.

 

[paulscholes18]

DDG
Valencia
Bailly
Smalling
Jones
Rojo
Pogba
Matic
Herrera
Lukaku
Rashford
Martial
Zlatan

 

[CassiusClaymore]

4 or 5 wins in a row will make a big difference.

Christ, 4 or 5 wins in a row and you'll be seeing thread titles like 'Is this the best United side since 2008?' and 'Phil Jones is the standout CB in the Premier League' (probably already had that one).

In this place, opinions shift quicker than a fart in a hurricane.

 

[Saad138]

But we would never have attracted pogba Bailly ibra matic with lvg.

I think neymar would have come had lvg been there.

 

[Zlatattack]

God when will the international break finish so we can play our next match and have this negativity finish!

From now on if we don't win the match before the international break we should drag out one of the players into the centre circle after the end of the game and shoot them dead. We could even dress them up in a sky blue burqa....lol We might get less negativity on this forum following a defeat that way.

---

Back to the topic on hand;

Look through our old squads and ask yourselves how many of the title winning players we had we consider stars? Fletcher, O'Shea, Brown, Park, Nani, Ronny Johnson, Nicky Butt blah blah blah. Most of them wouldn't have made it into the starting 11 of our opposition. Yet they all formed successful parts of winning sides.

We have a few problems right now;

1. Our squad probably has a few too many squad players and a few too little first team starters. Arsene Wenger used to have 15 top players in a squad and felt the rest could be just good players. I reckon today with the competition higher than it is, you need that number closer to 18-20. We don't have 11.

2. Or squad is unbalanced. We have too many of some types of players and not enough of others. Last season we had 3 number 10's for example. We have loads of average fullbacks, we have strikers being used as wide attackers.

3. Our title rivals, have excellent squads, especially City. The gap is increasing.

4. We have non squad related problems too, like the managers negative tactics at times.

These things will take time to sort out, but it's not the time of baby and bathwater type thinking.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I feel that the bar has been raised in recent years though. Plus, have we ever challenged in the PL and CL with those players being a main part of our first 11?

At one point Ando and Cleverley were the best attacking duo I’ve seen in our midfield in a long time. Can’t remeber what season it was, think it was the same one when we spanked Arsenal 8-2 then Ando got injured and it kinda fell apart. Although neither could really defend for sh!t as I remeber us getting sliced open upon occasion as Carrick was injured as well.

 

[prtk0811]

I think neymar would have come had lvg been there.

I would not want him even if he threw himself at us.

 

[haram]

Until we play the better teams in the league or get to the latter stages of the CL.Unless you actually believe this team is capable of winning the league and CL? Which is exactly the point of this thread.

We beat Spurs. The Liverpool and Chelsea games would be different with Pogba in the team.

 

[Sing you a song]

We had a poor window in my opinion, we were in desperate need of 2 full backs another creative midfielder as cover for Pogba at least one winger plus some additional fire power.

We ended up with Matic a great buy and someone who will sit and let Pogba (when fit) roam. A centre back which we absolutely did not need and a younger not as good version of Zlatan who because of Zlatans injury is more or less a direct replacement.

Therefore no additional fire power added to a team that had struggled to score goals for the past 3 years.

It has left us still in need of major surgery - we have got away with poor full backs because of our strong central defenders plus the protection that matic brings.
But in terms of creativity and goal threat we are way short of what we need.

Once again our main goalscorer has hit a dry spell and no one looks anywhere near to being able to make up for it.

Rashford I fear is not as great as we are all desperate for him to be I know he is young and full of potential and we "play him out of position" (though in my view he will never be a main striker) he lacks real composure in front of goal.

Martial another one we keep using the word potential with but by now he should be established in the team but fails to show consistency.

We are desperate for another proven goalscorer and some real pace in the team
Herrera, mikhi, mata, smalling , blind, Valencia, Darmian all not good enough and would get nowhere near the city 1st team.

I'm prepared for many to disagree but honestly believe Lukaku will turn out to be a poor buy, by December we will be desperate for Zlatan to be back and that just should not be the case.

Every CF will go through a poor spell but unlike City who have goals from everywhere we have no one stepping up and this is unforgivable as it was exactly the same last year when Zlatan didn't score no one scored!!

 

[AshRK]

I would give jose some credit for creating some sort of spine.
___De GEA____
?__Bailly_Jones__?
__Matic___Pogba__
?___?___Martial/Rashford
___Lukaku____

What we need is a class number 10 who can pass the ball and a right winger who can cross. We also need full backs next season badly. This is why I feel Jose's actual second season could be next year.

 

[TheOrgazoid]

Thank goodness not everyone will agree with your assessment here but that is why we have a forum to share opinions. One thing is for sure that you and Mourinho are on the same page brawn before footballing talent, as long as a player is big and physical he fits into his plans (judging by the players brought in under Mourinho).
According to this the few creative players we have in the team are surplus and should be replaced, unbelievable. I suppose you are also one of the people complaining that we too often hoof the ball forward.

@Marcky411...
I think that Matic and Pogba, two big guys, are integral to our style.
I think that Fellaini is a great option to have as a Plan B in terms of attack (long ball) and Plan B in terms of defence (physical presence, headers, grit).
I think that McTominay is decent technically and has a presence which, as you correctly state, is effective in a Mourinho system.
I beleive that the big guys we have are enough given their respective roles.
I beleive that releatively few of the smaller, technical players are good enough for those slots - I don't want to remove the slots themselves; I simply think that none of Mata, Mhiki, Lingard, etc are good enough. Do you?

@Varun, @SirAF...

I apologise! Got my forums mixed up so feel free to (re)move this one.
I look forward to discussing football with all of you guys once I have some more available posts.

 

[Varun]

@Marcky411...
I think that Matic and Pogba, two big guys, are integral to our style.
I think that Fellaini is a great option to have as a Plan B in terms of attack (long ball) and Plan B in terms of defence (physical presence, headers, grit).
I think that McTominay is decent technically and has a presence which, as you correctly state, is effective in a Mourinho system.
I beleive that the big guys we have are enough given their respective roles.
I beleive that releatively few of the smaller, technical players are good enough for those slots - I don't want to remove the slots themselves; I simply think that none of Mata, Mhiki, Lingard, etc are good enough. Do you?

@Varun, @SirAF...

I apologise! Got my forums mixed up so feel free to (re)move this one.
I look forward to discussing football with all of you guys once I have some more available posts.

Moved the posts here as this is the appropriate thread. Feel free to start/continue this discussion in the newbies as well, no post limits there.

 

[GrandJury]

You don’t need to have amazing players all over the pitch to when the title, but you do need a great spine and unfortunately the core part of our spine has been injured for 8 weeks.

 

[SirAF]

@Marcky411...
I think that Matic and Pogba, two big guys, are integral to our style.
I think that Fellaini is a great option to have as a Plan B in terms of attack (long ball) and Plan B in terms of defence (physical presence, headers, grit).
I think that McTominay is decent technically and has a presence which, as you correctly state, is effective in a Mourinho system.
I beleive that the big guys we have are enough given their respective roles.
I beleive that releatively few of the smaller, technical players are good enough for those slots - I don't want to remove the slots themselves; I simply think that none of Mata, Mhiki, Lingard, etc are good enough. Do you?

@Varun, @SirAF...

I apologise! Got my forums mixed up so feel free to (re)move this one.
I look forward to discussing football with all of you guys once I have some more available posts.

No worries

 

[pocco]

This place after a loss is incredible. Luke Chadwick, Darren Ferguson, Kuzscak, Ronnie Wallwork, Darron Gibson, etc all won the league.
Its a team/squad game. That squad is good enough to win the league. We havent won at Chelsea in years. it happens, they were always a boggie side. I remember going almost unbeaten except for losing to Chelsea home and away with Gavin peacock scoring. We were playing well until we got some big injuries. We just need to pick ourselves up for the next game and get on a run. 4 or 5 wins in a row will make a big difference.

You've not read the thread properly because none of them played I the first 11 every week. They sat in the stands. By your logic Luke Chadwick is good enough for any team in the world.

 

[pocco]

You don’t need to have amazing players all over the pitch to when the title, but you do need a great spine and unfortunately the core part of our spine has been injured for 8 weeks.

So we'd win the league if we had Pogba?

 

[pocco]

We beat Spurs. The Liverpool and Chelsea games would be different with Pogba in the team.

Would they? I don't think they would. They certainly weren't last season and Pogba was vilified after both.

Pogba can't stop Mkhitaryan shitting his pants, make our defenders learn to pass, make Rashford and Martial suddenly become consistent, cause a threat to suddenly appear on our right hand side or make our attackers take chances.

 

[SambaBoy]

Pogba, De Gea, Ibra, Matic.

Rest are either
a) not good enough for United
b) not good enough to be starting week in, week out for United
c) have potential to be good enough but not quite there yet
d) improvements can be made in there position

Saying that, apart from players in group A, you would keep all b, c, d depending on how many are in each group. You always need depth and squad fillers, versatile players who can come in and do a job when necessary, however United have too many of them sort of players at the moment.

Obviously with c, you don't want a full squad of kids who are not reliable or consistent starting every game but they are obviously worth keeping round and getting starts to help fulfill their potential and help them become consistent.

and with d, most clubs will have this where improvements can be made in certain positions but it's unrealistic to have 11 world beaters starting for your club every week or the top 5-10 players in that position starting.

 

[Hugh Jass]

This is an awful thread. We have a lot of good players and a lot of squad players. No team in the world has 23 World Class players in their squad. Sure, we can improve drastically in some areas - and I'm sure we will do. But the level of knee-jerk is astonishing.

This.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Jesus wept. The entitlement complex of some posters. We cannot keep signing new players. We have a good team and squad. Just need one or two more players.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Lukaku is a squad player? Where would you realistically get someone better to replace him from?

People play too much football manager.

This. What ages are some of these football manager posters, because you would swear they are 13/14 years old.

I am getting fed up with this website. We second in the league, nearly through in the CL and miles better than where we were under Moyes and Van Gaal. Yet these childish posters still want us to win every game 4-0 as if it is our right.

 

[Darkhorsez]

DDG
Valencia
Bailly
Smalling
Jones
Rojo
Pogba
Matic
Herrera
Lukaku
Rashford
Martial
Zlatan

This would be my list too. The only caveat being that Jones is injury prone and Herrera has had a dip in form - hoping he can get back to the way he played last season.

 

[pocco]

Jesus wept. The entitlement complex of some posters. We cannot keep signing new players. We have a good team and squad. Just need one or two more players.

What's entitled about it? I'm just saying it as i see it and the proof is in the last 3-4 years.

There's nothing entitled about saying your team isn't good enough to compete when they clearly aren't and haven't been for years. I still turn up every week.

 

[haram]

Would they? I don't think they would. They certainly weren't last season and Pogba was vilified after both.

Pogba can't stop Mkhitaryan shitting his pants, make our defenders learn to pass, make Rashford and Martial suddenly become consistent, cause a threat to suddenly appear on our right hand side or make our attackers take chances.

He gives us greater control of the midfield. We didn't have Matic last year either. We couldn't match either of Liverpool or Chelsea in midfield.

 

[pocco]

This. What ages are some of these football manager posters, because you would swear they are 13/14 years old.

I am getting fed up with this website. We second in the league, nearly through in the CL and miles better than where we were under Moyes and Van Gaal. Yet these childish posters still want us to win every game 4-0 as if it is our right.

You call everyone else children but you can't allow reasonable debate like a fecking adult. Why don't you just say that you think we're good enough and leave it at that.

 

[pocco]

He gives us greater control of the midfield. We didn't have Matic last year either. We couldn't match either of Liverpool or Chelsea in midfield.

He'd improve us but I think there's too much shite going on all across the pitch for him to have made that big a difference.

 

[SteveW]

DDG
Valencia
Bailly
Smalling
Jones
Rojo
Pogba
Matic
Herrera
Lukaku
Rashford
Martial
Zlatan

Yep. All good players who could play at any level.

 

[haram]

He'd improve us but I think there's too much shite going on all across the pitch for him to have made that big a difference.

We can easily match Liverpool and Chelsea. We can defend and attack, we've proven that this year. It's just that in the big games you need your biggest players and Pogba was out. I really do believe that he was the difference.

 

[Jaybomb]

De Gea
Bailly
Rojo
Matic
Mata
Fellaini
Pogba
Rashford
Ibra
Lukaku

All good enough to win trophies and play for most of Europe’s top teams. The rest? Not so much. I think everyone I left out can be honesty improved on and would probably end up at a smaller team than United if they were sold on.

 

[MuranoLover]

If I am really gonna have to pick good enough :

De Gea in terms of quality and professionalism

Matic in terms of quality and professionalism

Romero in terms of professionalism

Fellaini in terms of professionalism

Young in terms of professionalism

Valencia in terms of professionalism

Rojo in terms of professionalism

Herrera in terms of professionalism

Martial** in terms of potential

Rashford** in terms of potential

Pogba** in terms of potential

*professionalism stands about desire to win , to be a squad player if he needs to and lack of moaning about money
** too early to estimate their professionalism

I am also not picking up players who play very rarely like Darmian , Blind , etc and those bought this summer

 

[haram]

If I am really gonna have to pick good enough :

De Gea in terms of quality and professionalism

Matic in terms of quality and professionalism

Romero in terms of professionalism

Fellaini in terms of professionalism

Young in terms of professionalism

Valencia in terms of professionalism

Rojo in terms of professionalism

Herrera in terms of professionalism

Martial** in terms of potential

Rashford** in terms of potential

Pogba** in terms of potential

*professionalism stands about desire to win , to be a squad player if he needs to and lack of moaning about money
** too early to estimate their professionalism

I am also not picking up players who play very rarely like Darmian , Blind , etc and those bought this summer

Pogba is not potential. He is ready right now.