Honest question: did Graelish want to join us, or was he always holding out for when City would buy him? Because, if Graelish was OK joining us and we passed on him for DvB, we are the dumbest club that ever existed, at least our recruiting is.
Who decided to sign Van De Beek?
- Thread starter Josep Dowling
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I doubt he would have had any problem joining other rich clubs. He wouldn't still be in Ajax. From what I understand Van der Sar helped us get him and asked us to not ruin him. Looks like we are ruining him so Edwin should be quite pissed at us.
The whole "Dream Like Donny" shite from Ajax with about ten different goodbye features when he left for United felt fairly cringeworthy at the team and seems even worse with hindsight.
I do actually feel bad for him, but I maintain that if he proving himself on the training ground then he would be featuring more. Ole wants to win and if he thinks Van de Beek will increase the likelihood of that he will play him, he's not leaving Donny out because of some evil grudge.
I do actually feel bad for him, but I maintain that if he proving himself on the training ground then he would be featuring more. Ole wants to win and if he thinks Van de Beek will increase the likelihood of that he will play him, he's not leaving Donny out because of some evil grudge.
I tend to agree with this. I also feel they have no idea where to play him. We have two players in Bruno and Pogba who he isn’t going to displace for starters
I genuinely think we signed him with a view that Pogba was leaving, if not last summer then this summer. Covid obviously stopped him from leaving last year to Juve IMO, and then this summer PSG were the only real option and they ended up signing Messi. So Pogba has stayed yet again. Van de Beek is a very different player of course, but I think it terms of squad building terms, Ole essentially replaced Pogba from our midfield 3 with Bruno's signing (Pogba was out most of that season with strong noise he would leave, until covid happened). So then Ole tried him deeper a bit and then put him on the left to get some creativity on the wings as we can't use 2 inside forwards on the wings. Van de Beek was likely to be used as a depth player while he adapted and I assume the view was he'd play in a 3 with Bruno ahead of a DM. But now Pogba has stayed again and we bought Sancho to be the creator on the wings. Which means Pogba will likely be used more often as part of a midfield 3, which essentially means there is 0 chance and to be honest, 0 reason for Van de Beek to get meaningful minutes past just resting others if Pogba and Bruno are fit.
I think we passed on Grealish when we signed Bruno and after that we essentially were looking for squad player caliber players, which was VdB with a view he could probably be a starting #8 before too long. Grealish is a pure #10 or left winger who would've demanded a starting role, which we pretty clearly weren't actually going for given we have Bruno and Rashford.
At the end of last season against Wolves he was quality but I just wonder if he’s gone the way of Memphis and now Martial where the expectations are too great for him
I wouldn't put too much stock in that game, it was a dead rubber. I think it was just a bad signing. He didn't really show that much in the Dutch league to suggest he could come to United and be a completely different player. He's one of those where he has a good touch, is of a good size and can occasionally play a decent enough pass where you think "if they put it all together, they can be something". I'd say the bigger part of being a top midfielder is the mental aspect, knowing where to move, where to sit, how to open yourself up to receive the ball and get on the ball constantly and how to consistently dictate the game. Van De Beek never showed that ability. He's not a player who ever dominates the touches or is a playmaker, he's just a link up player. He's not a player who can progress the play well through carrying or dribbling, and he's not some sort of beast with his work rate or pressing either. I just think it was a signing where we thought he'd be a lot better than he actually is, and so Ole doesn't feel the need to play him much.
With Memphis, I don't think it was an expectation thing either. When I watch Memphis now I'm still not that impressed. He's turned into a smarter player and makes better decisions, and has a good shot on him, but he was never much of a explosive winger. I still don't think he's a player who's good enough for a top team. The tier below the top teams is where I'd put him. Spurs, Arsenal, etc. Barca getting him is just a further marker into how they are poorly run IMO.
Martial on the other hand, I think never kicked on mentally. Didn't have the drive or hunger to take the next step. He showed all the ability in the world at the start, but then somewhere along the way just became quieter as a player. His control isn't as good as it used to be, he looks much slower, and he looks weaker. 19/20 he had a good season but I still think he didn't show the same level of raw ability that he did at the start.
Deli Ali is still the comparison for Donny, but with much less aggression. Not the type of player who you build around or change the shape of the team to accommodate, not really a midfielder or an attacking creator.
Well if that's the case we need to find a taker
I expected us not to bother buying him and use those funds for other positions we badly need sorting.
We needed and still need a starting midfielder.
I mean yeah for sure. I don't see the point in him being anything other than a squad player ever. You look at our squad build up and it's pretty clear with our back 4 and our front 4. We have Bruno as a 10 now and long term. We have Sancho/Rashford/Greenwood on the wings now, but are crying out for a Haaland type a bit (but have Cavani now). It's pretty straightforward that we'll need a #9 if Greenwood doesn't make that position his own. Amad is a big potential guy for the wings/#10 too. With that front 4, we need a midfield 2 behind that can both provide a really strong defensive base to cover for the natural attack minded tendencies of Sancho and Rashford (and lack of defensive work from them), along with having quality deep playmaking. Players who aren't afraid to get on the ball, can handle being pressed and can play the ball around. Thiago honestly would've been perfect for us back there, or Jorginho, or Verratti, to be able to sit next to someone like Fabinho. Van de Beek has never been a player that actively wants to dominate the ball. He's not a #8 for a team like United, and especially isn't a #10 for a team like United. Best thing for both would be to just move on, as I really don't see what he'll ever provide past being an occasional rotation player with no purpose other than to rest a starter.
We now need two due to our utter incompetence (DM & tempo CM)
By that logic we shouldn't have signed C.Ronaldo when we got him. We didn't need him at the time, we had other holes to fill, but we took a punt on a very talented youngster who tormented us in a friendly. If Amad turns out to be a David Silva level player in 3-4 years and is worth north of £100m you won't be complaining. Sometimes when highly touted youngsters become available you have to pull the trigger. You can't just build for the present you have to build for the future too.
The problem in midfield is not linked to Amad or the money spend for him anyway. He's an u21 play who will likely go on loan. But for us to sign a midfielder it's probably required to offload one or two. We technically already have 5 central midfielders in the squad in Fred, McT, Matic, VdB and Pogba. That's 5 players for technically 2 positions. Even if Pogba plays on the left now when Rashford returns he might go back to the middle.
If we had offloaded VdB and Lingard we would have been in a position to get a CM/DM irrespective of Amad.
i think he wont displace McFred nor Matic either
Yeah sadly Ole doesn't throw new players in well with the exception of Bruno
If anything, I think it'd be more likely to make the board think "why would we fork out for another midfielder when you've not used the one we just bought for £40m? " Like José with Fred, and when he was moaning for another CB after signing Bailly and Lindelof already.
I think he was there for the taking, yes.
I agree that we passed (though Ole obviously still wanted him) but I think he could've played with both Rashford and Bruno. Honestly, I think it would've made for some great interchangeable football. When he played as a CM for Villa, he actually played deeper than McGinn who, like Bruno, would often go up to partner the CF in possession. I think having him, Bruno and Pogba as options would've been deadly. Plus, it may have helped in giving Rashford and Bruno the odd rest instead of running them into the ground.
Oh, well. Hopefully Sancho turns out to be that guy. I'm looking forward to seeing what this chap can do!
i think it revolved around Villa staying up, so the price was skyhigh. if they got relegated, we probably would have got him at a cheaper price
Every time I see that Villa v Sheff Utd game it brings back horrible memories of what could have been but for faulty technology
How will we ever know, if he's not given a chance?
He wouldn't have made a difference yesterday, he's been bang average since he got here. Bizarre signing that needs investigating one day as it clearly wasn't Ole's call to sign him. Wasted funds that could have been used to bring in Neves or Bissouma this summer.
He needs to sign up to Raiola and get himself talking about a move. Ole will pick him then!
Yeah keep that money for a DM last summer and just maybe we would have won Europa League and pushed City harder
What are you talking about? Our winger options in 2003 without Ronaldo were, Ryan Giggs and....Bellion?
and the number on the left is how many games played in that position?
He’s better than Fred, I don’t get why we don’t play him in Fred’s position!
The only hope I have that we won't wast Van de Beek is that when Varane is starting that'll give Ole the confidence to play Van de Beek in the midfield with either McTominay, Fred or Matic next to him,
Can't say I'm optimistic.
Can't say I'm optimistic.
40 fecking million. We wasted that much for a player who doesn't even start and is not even used as super sub when we could actually use it to buy a midfielder that can improve/upgrade our XI.
Thing about the veto is it just means Solskjaer didn't turn down signing VDB (which we could have guessed anyway).
It doesn't tell us whether he was someone Solskjaer actively wanted or if (as LVG complained about) it was a case of signing someone some way down the list of options because they couldn't secure better targets and the alternative was either signing someone even less desirable or not making a signing at all.
In other words Ole not rejecting a signing isn't quite the same as it being a signing he wanted. But of course once that player is on the list of options and isn't vetoed then they can say it was Solskjaer's choice.
It doesn't tell us whether he was someone Solskjaer actively wanted or if (as LVG complained about) it was a case of signing someone some way down the list of options because they couldn't secure better targets and the alternative was either signing someone even less desirable or not making a signing at all.
In other words Ole not rejecting a signing isn't quite the same as it being a signing he wanted. But of course once that player is on the list of options and isn't vetoed then they can say it was Solskjaer's choice.
He isn't better than Fred. They play in different positions anyway.
Sounds like a journo doesn't want to rock the boat with Ole and lose his privileges
Thank you, that makes sense. And yeah, Bruno is 10x better than Grealish, so maybe we did ok if those were the choices, after all
You wouldn't bring a rally car to a drag race.
Well, lets find out. I doubt he could have been much worse than Fred or Matic. Ole has no balls to try out something, its crazy
Nothing about the signing of Donny makes any sense unless there was some money laundering or backhanders going on...
I think the same can be said of Fred too, what did he cost, £54Million, and did Mourinho want him..?
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So that's it? Nothing more to say to pile up some pressure for his client's interests first and foremost? Ole may be able to sell that BS for now, but that is not going to fly. A player is not going to show anybody how far he can deliver the goods unless he plays long enough to build a solid opinion shared by almost everybody.
When Chelsea signed Kai Havertz, I'm sure the guy above the manager said that Havertz MUST play. It wasn't pretty at first, but Havertz came out good by piling up minutes. So I only wish Donny receives the same courtesy at the very least before people can make a definitive conclusion about him, especially when Matic and Fred have played more than enough minutes to warrant the currently angry conclusions on their respective cases from the fanbase.
This is very accurate. Martial lacks the hunger of a player like Lukaku who even pushed to go to Italy to improve with Conte and looks where it’s gotten him