Who decided to sign Van De Beek?

Abraxas

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McT could definitely be a shitter version of Yaya Toure - that’d still be a very good player.

Personally I think VdB is a better overall player than both McT and Fred but only if we were playing a possession based system. I’m our system he’s ok still but it’s so evident it doesn’t suit him
What is the evidence he's a better player than them in any system?

It's a long time since he had a decent run of form for club or country, certainly not since his Ajax days and we have to consider that aside from a handful of admittedly impressive CL outings, this is mostly against overmatched opponents in the Dutch league.That's a long period of fairly mediocre football for club and country to be confident about his ability.

He gives the ball away, takes the odd sloppy touch, looks backwards, passes backwards - any footballer that pulls on a Utd shirt can punt the ball backwards to a completely free man. Maybe VDB looks more stylish doing it, I'm not sure, but there has been such scant evidence of his technical prowess to support the notion that he's simply playing in the wrong side.

That's the big worry, where are these signs, there's been so little to get interested about. Even Mhikitaryan and Kagawa who had similarly sympathetic voices among our support showed more signs of quality. I dunno, these claims about his relative ability just seem farfetched at the moment, it seems to be at the point of blind hope he magically tears up the script next season. Fingers crossed!
 

Commentary

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I think the fault lies at Ed Woodward's doorstep, as well as the Glazer's for buying a club they can't afford to keep as number 1 in the PL.

Since Woodward took the helm there is a history of managers asking for specific players and ending up with someone they didn't ask for.

Ole wanted Grealish but his price went up when Aston Villa was saved from relegation, so whazzle dazzle you end up with Van De Beek.
 

MattofManchester

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So, if a signing goes bad, there are now 101 excuses why it's not the manager who signed off on the player?
This is pathetic.

I mean, it's not hard to understand that managers sometimes get it wrong. Quite often, and not every signing is going to be fantastic. This isn't a video game ffs.

On the other hand, it always sounded like Ole signed with the intention of letting him in slowly and that next season will be the making or breaking of him. VDB's comments on the matter kind of confirm that.
Bit stupid to write a player off after one season.
 
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Do, if a signing goes bad, there are now 101 excuses why it's not the manager who signed off on the player?
This is pathetic.

I mean, it's not hard to understand that managers sometimes get it wrong. Quite often, and not every signing is going to be fantastic. This isn't a video game ffs.

On the other hand, it always sounded like Ole signed with the intention of letting him in slowly and that next season will be the making or breaking of him. VDB's comments on the matter kind of confirm that.
Bit stupid to write a player off after one season.
a manager is lucky if 50% of his signings work out. It’s a combination of things. Clearly that’s obvious. We can’t unilaterally blame either the player or the manager

as per usual on the Caf, it’s the blame game…
 

Mainoldo

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Ole’s signing. He doesn’t no what to do with him. Simple.

I mean the guy can just about figure out who to sub on.
 

tomaldinho1

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What is the evidence he's a better player than them in any system?

It's a long time since he had a decent run of form for club or country, certainly not since his Ajax days and we have to consider that aside from a handful of admittedly impressive CL outings, this is mostly against overmatched opponents in the Dutch league.That's a long period of fairly mediocre football for club and country to be confident about his ability.

He gives the ball away, takes the odd sloppy touch, looks backwards, passes backwards - any footballer that pulls on a Utd shirt can punt the ball backwards to a completely free man. Maybe VDB looks more stylish doing it, I'm not sure, but there has been such scant evidence of his technical prowess to support the notion that he's simply playing in the wrong side.

That's the big worry, where are these signs, there's been so little to get interested about. Even Mhikitaryan and Kagawa who had similarly sympathetic voices among our support showed more signs of quality. I dunno, these claims about his relative ability just seem farfetched at the moment, it seems to be at the point of blind hope he magically tears up the script next season. Fingers crossed!
it’s personal preference I guess. I don’t like the style of football we play and have been hoping we try and evolve a bit. All the best teams keep possession in offensive areas better than us and have a lot more tactical structure in their midfield.

Im not sure if VdB can make it here but I think he’d add more to our game as part of the CM pair if we just stopped trying to be so direct and modernised our approach to building attacks.

Our football now is frantic - that’s why Fred and McT start for us because we churn possession so much. I guess I’d like to see that change, I’d like to see us have a much more proactive midfield in possession and so VdB would be an option there.
 

UpWithRivers

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There isn't a club in the world where the manager doesn't get to choose the signings. Its ridiculous to even contemplate that Woodward and the board are just signing random players. Just think about it. If that's happening then 99 percent of managers would walk out. If Ole has stayed even if he has no control over signings then he is a fool and as much to blame as anyone for not speaking up and walking out. If this information ever got out and it would then no manager in their right mind would ever join United. Conte? Zidane? Oh by the way Woody likes a gamble every now and then and you might end up with a surprise transfer. Hope you are good with that. Come on. This story perpetuated on YouTube is ridiculous. Can it be true? Of course anything can. But if it is its one of the biggest sandals in United's history.

The truth is that signings are a joint decision. They have a list of wanted players. But sometimes. And I know its hard to believe. But sometimes its just not possible to sign the player that they want. And I know this is hard but the truth is sometimes its not the incompetence of the United board that we don't get the transfer done. Sometimes its just not possible. Also sometimes a different player becomes available. Maybe VDB became available after Real dropped out and the recruitment team (Ole included ) all said yes.

Ole 100 percent said yes to this signing. He might have been one of 10/20 people who all said yes. But he was one of them. They would not go ahead if he said no.
 

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it’s personal preference I guess. I don’t like the style of football we play and have been hoping we try and evolve a bit. All the best teams keep possession in offensive areas better than us and have a lot more tactical structure in their midfield.

Im not sure if VdB can make it here but I think he’d add more to our game as part of the CM pair if we just stopped trying to be so direct and modernised our approach to building attacks.

Our football now is frantic - that’s why Fred and McT start for us because we churn possession so much. I guess I’d like to see that change, I’d like to see us have a much more proactive midfield in possession and so VdB would be an option there.
You think DvB would improve our possession play if we played to his style? Everything I have seen of him suggests the opposite. He hides rather than makes himself available and he’s really not that press resistant. He likes to release the ball as soon as he receives it which means he rarely picks the right pass and he isn’t on the ball long enough to draw players towards him and create space.
 

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So, if a signing goes bad, there are now 101 excuses why it's not the manager who signed off on the player?
This is pathetic.

I mean, it's not hard to understand that managers sometimes get it wrong. Quite often, and not every signing is going to be fantastic. This isn't a video game ffs.

On the other hand, it always sounded like Ole signed with the intention of letting him in slowly and that next season will be the making or breaking of him. VDB's comments on the matter kind of confirm that.
Bit stupid to write a player off after one season.
Its all just speculation, but the all the other big signings have played pretty much every minute since they arrived. Hell, even James have played more and he was just signed as a squad player.

It might very well be that its "Oles signing" and that he fecked up on this one, but its just odd to pay 40 million for a player that almost never features. Martial got regular starts when he was in rotten form, presumably to give him some confidence, so why not VdB?
 

tomaldinho1

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You think DvB would improve our possession play if we played to his style? Everything I have seen of him suggests the opposite. He hides rather than makes himself available and he’s really not that press resistant. He likes to release the ball as soon as he receives it which means he rarely picks the right pass and he isn’t on the ball long enough to draw players towards him and create space.
I disagree but I guess we just haven’t seen enough of him - particularly in the pair. I’d say it’s highly unlikely he hides from the ball and isn’t press resistant from watching him at Ajax and in fleeting moments with us but he needs to get a run of games or move elsewhere.
 

crossy1686

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Huge Kagawa vibes about this transfer. The step up to the PL has been too much for him and he just doesn't fit into a system that isn't Ajax or Barcelona. If we can get what we paid back this summer we probably should.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Huge Kagawa vibes about this transfer. The step up to the PL has been too much for him and he just doesn't fit into a system that isn't Ajax or Barcelona. If we can get what we paid back this summer we probably should.
He makes Kagawa seem world class
 

Abraxas

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it’s personal preference I guess. I don’t like the style of football we play and have been hoping we try and evolve a bit. All the best teams keep possession in offensive areas better than us and have a lot more tactical structure in their midfield.

Im not sure if VdB can make it here but I think he’d add more to our game as part of the CM pair if we just stopped trying to be so direct and modernised our approach to building attacks.

Our football now is frantic - that’s why Fred and McT start for us because we churn possession so much. I guess I’d like to see that change, I’d like to see us have a much more proactive midfield in possession and so VdB would be an option there.
I agree, we certainly don't keep the ball well. Certainly not until the opposition tire, anyway. I think we'd all like to see us improve in that area.

It just seems doubtful Donny is the man to help us in that regard when he's so keen to lay the ball off, or sometimes thinks he's got more time than he has. The top midfielders seem to have time and space, Donny seems to have the opposite so there is either a slowness of thought or suspect technique at this level.

Kagawa is often cited, and although he had a bad time he had a few more moments. He also played in a position that is hard, unless you're truly exceptional it's hard to have a player like him at United and he just wasn't exceptional. The sad thing with Donny is we seemed to reason we could slot him into a few roles and that he was flexible which gives many opportunities to succeed, yet none of them have panned out.

It's more like Fred's first year in the sheer ineptitude. What we have discovered with Fred is that once up to fitness and the speed of things he is a bit of a physical workhorse and there wasn't much initial evidence of what he could provide. Donny is going to have to pull something similar out of the hat that we have barely seen a hint of next season, if he remains. Obviously he's not going to have similar qualities as Fred, but it would have to be such a step up as to be quite surprising.
 

tomaldinho1

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I agree, we certainly don't keep the ball well. Certainly not until the opposition tire, anyway. I think we'd all like to see us improve in that area.

It just seems doubtful Donny is the man to help us in that regard when he's so keen to lay the ball off, or sometimes thinks he's got more time than he has. The top midfielders seem to have time and space, Donny seems to have the opposite so there is either a slowness of thought or suspect technique at this level.

Kagawa is often cited, and although he had a bad time he had a few more moments. He also played in a position that is hard, unless you're truly exceptional it's hard to have a player like him at United and he just wasn't exceptional. The sad thing with Donny is we seemed to reason we could slot him into a few roles and that he was flexible which gives many opportunities to succeed, yet none of them have panned out.

It's more like Fred's first year in the sheer ineptitude. What we have discovered with Fred is that once up to fitness and the speed of things he is a bit of a physical workhorse and there wasn't much initial evidence of what he could provide. Donny is going to have to pull something similar out of the hat that we have barely seen a hint of next season, if he remains. Obviously he's not going to have similar qualities as Fred, but it would have to be such a step up as to be quite surprising.
I think a lot of people need to watch VdB at Ajax because the Kagawa comparison is weird for me - they are very different players. VdB grew up in a system where you are constantly popping the ball around to gain field position but he’s far better (for me) from deep/in CM. He might work as an AM in an attacking possession based system but Bruno is basically a second striker and BdB is useless in that role.

He’s an ideal player when you are struggling to get the ball through the midfield and not bypass it, which in our system renders him useless (and is probably why people think he’s hiding). That said even the fleeting games he’s played, he’s been available for a lot of passes and made a lot of runs and our players just don’t take the option because it’s not route 1. We seem to want to play the ball forward into our attackers as soon as is possible.

I don’t see any similarity with his game and Fred’s at all so not sure I follow that line of thinking.
 

BaillyBaillyBailly

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There isn't a club in the world where the manager doesn't get to choose the signings. Its ridiculous to even contemplate that Woodward and the board are just signing random players. Just think about it. If that's happening then 99 percent of managers would walk out. If Ole has stayed even if he has no control over signings then he is a fool and as much to blame as anyone for not speaking up and walking out. If this information ever got out and it would then no manager in their right mind would ever join United. Conte? Zidane? Oh by the way Woody likes a gamble every now and then and you might end up with a surprise transfer. Hope you are good with that. Come on. This story perpetuated on YouTube is ridiculous. Can it be true? Of course anything can. But if it is its one of the biggest sandals in United's history.

The truth is that signings are a joint decision. They have a list of wanted players. But sometimes. And I know its hard to believe. But sometimes its just not possible to sign the player that they want. And I know this is hard but the truth is sometimes its not the incompetence of the United board that we don't get the transfer done. Sometimes its just not possible. Also sometimes a different player becomes available. Maybe VDB became available after Real dropped out and the recruitment team (Ole included ) all said yes.

Ole 100 percent said yes to this signing. He might have been one of 10/20 people who all said yes. But he was one of them. They would not go ahead if he said no.
This is quite literally untrue. There are clubs where the transfer "committee" doesn't include the manager as signings are based on a club philosophy rather than the current manager's desires. An example of this is Monchi's work with Sevilla. Ajax and more recently Juve roughly work on this model too.
 

Leroy The Red

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There isn't a club in the world where the manager doesn't get to choose the signings. Its ridiculous to even contemplate that Woodward and the board are just signing random players. Just think about it. If that's happening then 99 percent of managers would walk out. If Ole has stayed even if he has no control over signings then he is a fool and as much to blame as anyone for not speaking up and walking out. If this information ever got out and it would then no manager in their right mind would ever join United. Conte? Zidane? Oh by the way Woody likes a gamble every now and then and you might end up with a surprise transfer. Hope you are good with that. Come on. This story perpetuated on YouTube is ridiculous. Can it be true? Of course anything can. But if it is its one of the biggest sandals in United's history.

The truth is that signings are a joint decision. They have a list of wanted players. But sometimes. And I know its hard to believe. But sometimes its just not possible to sign the player that they want. And I know this is hard but the truth is sometimes its not the incompetence of the United board that we don't get the transfer done. Sometimes its just not possible. Also sometimes a different player becomes available. Maybe VDB became available after Real dropped out and the recruitment team (Ole included ) all said yes.

Ole 100 percent said yes to this signing. He might have been one of 10/20 people who all said yes. But he was one of them. They would not go ahead if he said no.
I think in England managers clearly have more of a say when it comes to signings but when you start going abroad to France, Spain, Italy etc. The “presidents” and “dof” have the overwhelming power when it comes to signing all the players. The coach is expected to just coach. There’s been a few famous walk outs because of it. AVB the last I remember. Walked out of Marseille because they signed Oliver Ntcham even though he specifically said for them not to.
 

Bebestation

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This is quite literally untrue. There are clubs where the transfer "committee" doesn't include the manager as signings are based on a club philosophy rather than the current manager's desires. An example of this is Monchi's work with Sevilla. Ajax and more recently Juve roughly work on this model too.
I mean I swear Mourinho said he didn’t get the players he want.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Remember how we all though Fred was shit, then we thought he was crucial, then he was useless because he couldn't pass, then we really should have fielded him in the EL final.......and so on.

I think Donny will come good next season... then again he might be shit
 

VanDeBank

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I mean I swear Mourinho said he didn’t get the players he want.
Not getting players you want =/= Getting players you didn't want.

Both Mourinho and LVG have been very open about certain players not being their first choice, meaning they got a 2nd/3rd/4th choice for a certain position.

I think the Woodward criticism is unfair in this regard. It happens that some players don't want to go to X club and the way we did business for a long time post-SAF was for our managers to hand in a list per position they wanted strengthening.

Ole didn't not want VDB, because it's common knowledge by now that he has a veto. But I think it goes too far to put the blame solely on him just because he has a veto. There's a lot of people involved in the transfer and scouting side of things now. You can't expect Ole to do their job for them and veto every potential flop.

He could've made a lot of good vetos already and we wouldn't know it.

But yeah, signing Ajax's 5th best player (after De Jong, De Ligt, Onana, Ziyech) would always be with the intent of him becoming a squad option and not a guaranteed starter. Not a fan considering our starting midfielders are underwhelming.

A straight swap for Ziyech would make a lot of sense if we can't land Sancho/Grealish/Haaland etc.

If he stays he'll be our b team cup player and backup to our backup for another year before we sell him for 20 million to a Dortmund/Sevilla.
 

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We couldn't use him when all the players were running on fumes, dreadful waste of money again.
 

MrBest

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We used Fred who hops around like a rabbit for 90 mins, cannot pass a ball and cannot shoot. Mctominay is used a lot, occasionally has an outstanding game, but most of the time looks like a squad player, should not be starting for us. Matic has played in midfield, not as much as previous season but more than Donny, his legs are gone and is often skinned.

People have said Donny gives the ball away, does not play the right pass, blah blah. Did anyone ever watch him at Ajax? He learnt to play the Ajax way, keep the ball moving quick, get up the pitch and into the box. When you don't have the ball, track back. His first 10 or so games for us, he did very well with the limited time he had. He then disappeared after the West Ham game until around March/April. He played average for the first few games, building up fitness, then started to gain momentum in the last 4 games of the season. Quite frankly, i think Ole is a fool for not even bringing him on in the final, he has no balls and does not understand DVB as a player.

Does anyone have an evidence to compare the stats between Donny, Fred and Mctominay at 90 min average?

I hope he leaves, it pains me to see a player with so much talented, wasted. His confidence has been torn away, anyone else noticed in some games he kicks a ball and looks to the bench for approval?
 

sunama

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Mou wanted slap head and he got Fred, Ole wanted Graelish and he got VDB, Moyes wanted Fabregas and he ended with Fellaini
This pretty much answers the question in a nutshell.
The MUFC board have a history of these types of player purchases.
 

Foxbatt

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We used Fred who hops around like a rabbit for 90 mins, cannot pass a ball and cannot shoot. Mctominay is used a lot, occasionally has an outstanding game, but most of the time looks like a squad player, should not be starting for us. Matic has played in midfield, not as much as previous season but more than Donny, his legs are gone and is often skinned.

People have said Donny gives the ball away, does not play the right pass, blah blah. Did anyone ever watch him at Ajax? He learnt to play the Ajax way, keep the ball moving quick, get up the pitch and into the box. When you don't have the ball, track back. His first 10 or so games for us, he did very well with the limited time he had. He then disappeared after the West Ham game until around March/April. He played average for the first few games, building up fitness, then started to gain momentum in the last 4 games of the season. Quite frankly, i think Ole is a fool for not even bringing him on in the final, he has no balls and does not understand DVB as a player.

Does anyone have an evidence to compare the stats between Donny, Fred and Mctominay at 90 min average?

I hope he leaves, it pains me to see a player with so much talented, wasted. His confidence has been torn away, anyone else noticed in some games he kicks a ball and looks to the bench for approval?
This is exactly why I was surprised that United bought DVB. He doesn't fit into the style we play. By the way neither would any player from Ajax. Not even De Jong. They play an entirely different style of football. It I as you say pass and move. Move into space after passing. In his last game I saw his frustration as he would pass and move into space and the pass would not come. We are not talking about long pass but a simple short pass into space. Our players would take an extra touch, hold the ball and then take another touch and the moment would have passed.
I have said before that it is best for everyone that he is sold.
 

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Out of Euro 2020 - struggling with an injury apparently. What a rubbish time since he left Ajax. I don't know what the plan was with this signing - I suspect we maybe thought Pogba was leaving and he was meant to be his replacement?

I don't know what the Netherlands midfield options are like but after the season he had here I'd be surprised if he was a starter for them (probably lucky to be a squad player too given his lack of playing time and impact when he has been on the pitch).

I really feel for the player here - it just looks a really bad move for him. I'm sure he's a talent but just not a good fit here. I don't know who is to blame - Ole and/or our scouts surely could have looked at his play style and thought this through better; I think he was just an easy signing to make (as in no big debates over fees etc.).

There's also the question of can he ever adapt here? The Euros could have been a breath of fresh air from him. If he got a chance to make an impact it could have lifted him and maybe revitalised him a little bit.
 

Betson

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Poor chap can't get a break , miserable 12 months for him.