Who replaces Ten Hag?

[davidmichael]

The thing with Tuchel is that’s he’s a very good coach and struggles with being a manager, if as Sir Jim said we’re moving away from having a ‘manager’ and having a ‘head coach’ then we’d struggle to do better than Tuchel who was probably only behind Guardiola and Klopp in his time in English football.

If we’re having a structure of Brailsford, Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox and Williams making all the footballing decisions as in style of play, formation and incoming transfers that would allow Tuchel to do what he does best which is coach the squad.

He’s won trophies everywhere he’s been and worked with some of the biggest names and egos in the game and much like Jose post Real I think Tuchel will have a point to prove post Bayern. Yes he falls out with the board but if we look at it as 2-3 years to stabilise us and provide a foundation before maybe someone like McKenna if he continues his trajectory then I’m all for Tuchel as he’s far better than Southgate, Potter, RDZ or sticking with ETH.

 

[Frank Grimes]

With our new set up I think this could be the perfect timing for United and Tuchel. De Zerbi and Iraola would also be on the shortlist. Inzaghi would have been my pick but he isn't leaving Inter any time soon.

 

[DSG]

Which is why I'm not sold on him. People scoff at Zidane saying he needs a ready made team but Tuchel tends to prefer more mature teams as well. He's not exactly patient with youth etc. and in a situation like ours where we need to be clearing out a TON of dross from the squad and assuming we are looking to get younger throughout, I think it's tough to bring in a manager like Tuchel to oversee that. The last thing you want is a repeat of the Mourinho treatment with Rashford/Martial while they were developing with new young players considering how many we have that are incredibly high rated coming through the academy currently.

If memory serves, wasn’t Mount playing his best under Tuchel and was quite young I think. He played a 22 yr old Pulisic until he didn’t. Reece James, Hudson Odoi, etc. I think to me, he’s the ultimate pragmatist, which I think we may need, frankly.

There is a couple of lazy, shitty takes that drive me insane that we constantly see here on the Caf, mostly by Ten Hag cultists:

1. There’s nobody available in the market manager-wise, so therefore we should give Ten Hag another 200m and another year to figure it out. Well, the first part is not true. Tuchel is available, Hansi Flick, Zidane, Potter, potentially De Zerbi and Southgate, Conti, Jose, potentially Amorin, potentially Allegri, potentially Luis Enrique, plus a bunch of other managers that will get sacked like Pochettino, Eddie Howe. I’m not advocating for any of the above, just merely saying that there are a lot of available managers and there will be more. We do know this: Ten Hag is not good enough. Speculating on the others and dismissing them as potential managers is a mere guess, we don’t know how they will perform. Many of the potentials have a better track record and credentials (Tuchel, Flick, Zidane, Conti, Jose, Allegri, Enrique, Pochettino), all having won at least one league title in the major 5 and /or a CL title. Ideally, you want a manager who has PL experience, a league title and a deep CL run or title.

2. Our players are shit, and therefore no manager could turn them around, and we’ll have to rebuild the squad anyhow, so expectations should be less, why not let Ten Hag do it. A couple problems with this. No business in their right mind would forego 80m a year in CL revenue (let’s call it 2 years, so 160m in CL revenue) and be happy with 5-8th place in the table. Not only is it stupid because clubs exist to make money, but it’s also stupid because it reduces your spending power by 80m per year. It starts a vicious cycle due to FFP in that you are hamstrung because your spending is reduced.

No. This is the summer. We had CL football this year so that equals more revenue. We need a new manager whose bare minimum achievement is top 4. You can bet that SJR and the new management are thinking the same way.

 

[AneRu]

Given what Jim and Brailsford did to get Berrada and Ashworth in I won't put it past them to make a play for Enrique in the summer. Unlike the Glazers INEOS won't have any issues paying top dollar for a manager and I think this is what they will do.

Unless of course they think Tuchel can come and stabilize us in the top 4 for a couple of years whilst other coaches become available or confirm their level (Amorim, Motta, McKenna).

 

[philippexyz]

As some of you have already said on this thread, I wouldn't mind having Tuchel as a manager for a couple of years to "stabilize" the team and guide it through the significant transition period(there will be A LOT of changes in the squad). He seems pretty tactically smart, flexible, pragmatic to me, and he doesn't necessarily want to involve himself in transfer decisions - that will be up to Ashworth, Wilcox, Berrada and the rest of the upper management and recruitment department.

I don't think we can realistically bring anyone better at the moment. At least not someone who's proven like Tuchel.

Xabi Alonso would never come here(scouser + waiting for the Real Madrid job), Inzaghi doesn't seem to want to leave Italy and Luis Enrique will likely stay at PSG.
Emery, Ancelotti, Nagelsmann, Xavi also unavailable. Amorim, Motta, De Zerbi etc. still not proven enough.

 

[Sandikan]

I can't believe there are United fans who are preferring life with Ten Hag to life with Ole.

To be fair it's like asking if you prefer to be slapped with a wet fish or a dry fish.

 

[Shark]

I can't believe there are United fans who are preferring life with Ten Hag to life with Ole.

Life with both of them has been almost equally soul crushing. Both had short spells of showing a smidgen of promise that was quickly eradicated by their shitness.

 

[Lash]

Yeah, De Zerbi would be a fecking car crash here.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

If memory serves, wasn’t Mount playing his best under Tuchel and was quite young I think. He played a 22 yr old Pulisic until he didn’t. Reece James, Hudson Odoi, etc. I think to me, he’s the ultimate pragmatist, which I think we may need, frankly.

There is a couple of lazy, shitty takes that drive me insane that we constantly see here on the Caf, mostly by Ten Hag cultists:

1. There’s nobody available in the market manager-wise, so therefore we should give Ten Hag another 200m and another year to figure it out. Well, the first part is not true. Tuchel is available, Hansi Flick, Zidane, Potter, potentially De Zerbi and Southgate, Conti, Jose, potentially Amorin, potentially Allegri, potentially Luis Enrique, plus a bunch of other managers that will get sacked like Pochettino, Eddie Howe. I’m not advocating for any of the above, just merely saying that there are a lot of available managers and there will be more. We do know this: Ten Hag is not good enough. Speculating on the others and dismissing them as potential managers is a mere guess, we don’t know how they will perform. Many of the potentials have a better track record and credentials (Tuchel, Flick, Zidane, Conti, Jose, Allegri, Enrique, Pochettino), all having won at least one league title in the major 5 and /or a CL title. Ideally, you want a manager who has PL experience, a league title and a deep CL run or title.

2. Our players are shit, and therefore no manager could turn them around, and we’ll have to rebuild the squad anyhow, so expectations should be less, why not let Ten Hag do it. A couple problems with this. No business in their right mind would forego 80m a year in CL revenue (let’s call it 2 years, so 160m in CL revenue) and be happy with 5-8th place in the table. Not only is it stupid because clubs exist to make money, but it’s also stupid because it reduces your spending power by 80m per year. It starts a vicious cycle due to FFP in that you are hamstrung because your spending is reduced.

No. This is the summer. We had CL football this year so that equals more revenue. We need a new manager whose bare minimum achievement is top 4. You can bet that SJR and the new management are thinking the same way.

James and Mount were vital yes. But I also think they were pretty much set in stone valued players by the time he arrived.

Agree completely with your other points. The view of “might as well give Ten Hag another year because we won’t be challenging anyways” is a fecking insane one for a club of this magnitude. It’s not Sunday league.

 

[SER19]

Luis Enrique probably the best option now. Best of a not ideal bunch. Did great at an admittedly brilliant Barca, Turned a really struggling spain into an enjoyable team that got to euros semis only to lose on pens, and has Psg on cusp of a cl final which may be part of quadruple. So he has pedigree with big clubs, good football and has a bit of charisma. Seems like a decent guy, bit of an athlete himself. Sad personal story of losing is daughter is irrelevant to this conversation but added for a bit of info about him as a character.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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[mu4c_20le]

Oh what could've been.

Time + Xavi

 

[KiD MoYeS]

There's f*ck all out there. To the point I'm actually starting to lean towards keeping Ten Hag another year and getting rid of some of the players.

 

[GledTheRed]

Yeah, De Zerbi would be a fecking car crash here.

He's a car crash at Brighton.

 

[santeria13]

Genuinely curious, not that such a choice would ever happen, but who would people pick if they had a choice between Rangnick returning to United as manager or bringing Southgate in?

 

[didz]

Genuinely curious, not that such a choice would ever happen, but who would people pick if they had a choice between Rangnick returning to United as manager or bringing Southgate in?

Southgate.

 

[Lash]

He's a car crash at Brighton.

I've personally thought he was overrated, but didn't expect him to be this bad since the turn of the year. Been utterly dreadful.

 

[Dec9003]

Genuinely curious, not that such a choice would ever happen, but who would people pick if they had a choice between Rangnick returning to United as manager or bringing Southgate in?

It has to be Rangnick easily, especially if he could work with the people above and decide on good transfer targets. Southgate just has nothing about him that makes him seem like an appropriate choice.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The thing with Tuchel is that’s he’s a very good coach and struggles with being a manager, if as Sir Jim said we’re moving away from having a ‘manager’ and having a ‘head coach’ then we’d struggle to do better than Tuchel who was probably only behind Guardiola and Klopp in his time in English football.

If we’re having a structure of Brailsford, Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox and Williams making all the footballing decisions as in style of play, formation and incoming transfers that would allow Tuchel to do what he does best which is coach the squad.

He’s won trophies everywhere he’s been and worked with some of the biggest names and egos in the game and much like Jose post Real I think Tuchel will have a point to prove post Bayern. Yes he falls out with the board but if we look at it as 2-3 years to stabilise us and provide a foundation before maybe someone like McKenna if he continues his trajectory then I’m all for Tuchel as he’s far better than Southgate, Potter, RDZ or sticking with ETH.

That’s all well and good but isn’t Tuchel A) quite a control freak - constantly falling out with upper managment? I don’t think he’ll accept being a mere coach. B) I worry about him as an attacking coach. All his teams are quite dire to watch and we are quite poor in attack as it is.

 

[stefan92]

That’s all well and good but isn’t Tuchel A) quite a control freak - constantly falling out with upper managment? I don’t think he’ll accept being a mere coach. B) I worry about him as an attacking coach. All his teams are quite dire to watch and we are quite poor in attack as it is.

At Chelsea he was very happy just being a coach and having Cech and Granovskaia deal with the other stuff. The fallout came once he should get more involved.

At Bayern he was also involved in the "transfer task force" this summer and apparently the club failed to deliver what he would have preferred. Also he got caught a bit in the middle of an infight of the board itself.

 

[Laurencio]

That’s all well and good but isn’t Tuchel A) quite a control freak - constantly falling out with upper managment? I don’t think he’ll accept being a mere coach. B) I worry about him as an attacking coach. All his teams are quite dire to watch and we are quite poor in attack as it is.

The entire reason he fell out with Bohely was because he was given more responsibility in transfers and other club matters. He felt a lack of support to do his job and being asked to do things he couldn’t do effectively. It's all the non-football stuff he despises.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The entire reason he fell out with Bohely was because he was given more responsibility in transfers and other club matters. He felt a lack of support to do his job and being asked to do things he couldn’t do effectively. It's all the non-football stuff he despises.

Fair enough. IF we get the right executives in, that could work. I just worry about him having to deal with a lot non footballing stuff as this is Manchester United and you have to deal with a lot of that even if you’re not spearheading transfers. And of course as I mentioned the attack. His work at Chelsea was good especially in the first year - except for in attack where they were consistently disappointing.

 

[GledTheRed]

I've personally thought he was overrated, but didn't expect him to be this bad since the turn of the year. Been utterly dreadful.

I think Brighton would be secretly pleased if someone came along with compensation for him.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

I've personally thought he was overrated, but didn't expect him to be this bad since the turn of the year. Been utterly dreadful.

Look at their starting XI last night.

Steele - 33 journeyman GK who has mainly played in The Championship

Barco - 19 years old and his 1st ever PL start after arriving in January
Dunk - Improved a lot under De Zerbri, but basically a bargain bucket Maguire
van Hecke - Breakthrough season after 2 good loans in The Eredivisie and The Championship
Veltman - Veteran defender on the wane

Moder - Still trying to find himself after 19 months out (missed 88 games with a horror injury)
Baleba - I actually really like him and this run in the team will help him develop

J.Pedro - Their best player this season and one of the few quality players in attack available
Groß - Probably the most underrated midfielder in The PL
Lallana - Basically a semi-retired player-coach

Welbeck - I love Danny, but he can't be relied on to score goals consistently

Brighton didn't actually play that badly last night. It was a strange game. City's xG was only 1.36, despite scoring 4 goals.

Foden's free kick was a lucky deflection (poor from Groß) and it wasn't even a foul. It shouldn't have been a free kick. Then the naivety of young Barco cost them a goal and you're suddenly 3-0 down.

They actually played out from the back very well at times, but then couldn't punish City after beating the high press. A lack of quality from the likes of Moder, Lallana and Welbeck during transition. Missing the likes of Lamptey, Mitoma and March (missed pretty much the entire season and a key senior player) who can provide the necessary spark in attack.

Brighton didn't buy well in the summer, which is rare for them.

Losing the quality of Colwill, Caicedo and Mac Allister on top of multiple injuries in attack has lead to an average PL campaign with too many draws. The target now has to be finishing in the top 10 and then address positions that need strengthening in the summer.

When everyone is fit and in form, their best XI is probably:

Ferguson

Mitoma------------Enciso-------------March

Groß---------Baleba

Estupiñań-------Dunk------van Hecke------Hinshelwood

Verbruggen​

 

[DutchSerb]

Really, Tuchel? If we want to continue playing an awful brand of football he surely is our man!

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Really, Tuchel? If we want to continue playing an awful brand of football he surely is our man!

Depends what your definition of 'awful' is. Tuchel sets his teams up to be defensively organised but they're usually not too exciting to watch. Ten Hag is the complete opposite.

 

[Cassidy]

Depends what your definition of 'awful' is. Tuchel sets his teams up to be defensively organised but they're usually not too exciting to watch. Ten Hag is the complete opposite.

From what we're supposedly looking for in terms of style of play, its a bit odd that we are even remotely linked with Tuchel

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

From what we're supposedly looking for in terms of style of play, its a bit odd that we are even remotely linked with Tuchel

He wouldn't be my number 1 choice but I do understand the links. There is a dearth of proven top managers out there who are available. Tuchel would feel like a safe pair of hands considering what he achieved at Chelsea. Although his track record of falling out with players does concern me.

 

[Cassidy]

He wouldn't be my number 1 choice but I do understand the links. There is a dearth of proven top managers out there who are available. Tuchel would feel like a safe pair of hands considering what he achieved at Chelsea. Although his track record of falling out with players does concern me.

Type of appointment that would make me lose faith in the new structure if I'm honest. Because Tuchel is not in line with the supposed stylistic approach

 

[CM]

From what we're supposedly looking for in terms of style of play, its a bit odd that we are even remotely linked with Tuchel

I'm starting to think he's what we'll end up with.

I wouldn't be excited for it but I think the new ownership would take a no frills guy to steady the ship during the transitional period before potentially looking at a more ambitious move later.

Unfortunately the options aren't exactly plentiful on the managerial market and the fact we've let Ten Hag see out the season won't help us in terms of identifying his replacement. It's difficult to know how serious the Southgate links were but if there was even a grain of truth, Tuchel is basically a far more accomplished version.

 

[Cassidy]

I'm starting to think he's what we'll end up with.

I wouldn't be excited for it but I think the new ownership would take a no frills guy to steady the ship during the transitional period before potentially looking at a more ambitious move later.

Unfortunately the options aren't exactly plentiful on the managerial market and the fact we've let Ten Hag see out the season won't help us in terms of identifying his replacement. It's difficult to know how serious the Southgate links were but if there was even a grain of truth, Tuchel is basically a far more accomplished version.

This should have zero bearing on identifying his replacement

 

[Buster15]

Type of appointment that would make me lose faith in the new structure if I'm honest. Because Tuchel is not in line with the supposed stylistic approach

Well you can't please everyone.
I was a bit fan of Tuchel when he was at Chelsea and as others have mentioned above, he could be regarded as an elite coach.
So if Ten Hag does go, I would not be unhappy with a Tuchel appointment.

 

[CM]

This should have zero bearing on identifying his replacement

Should've said approaching rather than identifying

 

[Buster15]

He wouldn't be my number 1 choice but I do understand the links. There is a dearth of proven top managers out there who are available. Tuchel would feel like a safe pair of hands considering what he achieved at Chelsea. Although his track record of falling out with players does concern me.

Our players have fallen out with every manager/coach since the great man.

 

[Cassidy]

Well you can't please everyone.
I was a bit fan of Tuchel when he was at Chelsea and as others have mentioned above, he could be regarded as an elite coach.
So if Ten Hag does go, I would not be unhappy with a Tuchel appointment.

I'm not really talking about him as a coach, and more about his style of play

 

[Buster15]

I'm not really talking about him as a coach, and more about his style of play

Yes I understood that.
You could be a better judge than me. But I don't really remember Chelsea being too bad under him.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Our players have fallen out with every manager/coach since the great man.

The fact that Tuchel is quite combative doesn't lend itself to a match made in heaven.

But with the exception of maybe Shaw, there might not be many players left who fell out with Van Gaal and Mourinho who will be around next season. I also don't think many players fell out with Ole but rather they lost faith in his methods.

I was a bit fan of Tuchel when he was at Chelsea and as others have mentioned above, he could be regarded as an elite coach.
So if Ten Hag does go, I would not be unhappy with a Tuchel appointment.

I agree with this, by the way. I wouldn't be excited by the appointment, but I wouldn't be against it either.

 

[Infra-red]

From what we're supposedly looking for in terms of style of play, its a bit odd that we are even remotely linked with Tuchel

What are we supposedly looking for in terms of style of play?

 

[Cassidy]

What are we supposedly looking for in terms of style of play?

From the latest reports a posession based attacking side.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

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We can go for him in twelve months when he does leave and Klopp has finished his year long holiday.

I'm starting to like the idea of Tuchel. It'll end in disaster but he's still the best option.