Yep pretty good summation there. Not sure why someone wouldn't rate Enrique
Who replaces Ten Hag?
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I guess, it's sort of 1 incredible year (the calendar year of 2015) at Barcelona in which they were truly brilliant and Messi played as well as he ever has but outside of that there's nothing that remarkable. He's definitely one of the better managers out there but I'm not sure he's as good a manager as Tuchel never mind being able to make us contenders next year.
I was a little underwhelmed by the Spain team he managed in the Euros and World Cup. I get that he hardly had a vintage Spain squad at his disposal, but I thought they could've done more.
I thought they were excellent at the Euros, personally. World Cup obviously a disaster, even taking into account the squad.
That's certainly a thing that somebody somewhere might say for some reason.
I don't put much stock in national team management either way if I'm honest. fecking Gareth Southgate has a good looking resume on paper from managing England but in reality we all know he's not really responsible for much of that success. Deschamps has won a world cup setting his team up as defensively as possible most games and relying on Pogba/Mbappe/Griezmann magic. It's so dependent on the squad you have at hand, and you're constantly playing knockout tournaments so it's going to benefit any coach that's willing to be pragmatic as feck more than those that wish to be more expansive.
And yeah Spain's squads were pretty shit during his time there. But loved watching his Barca teams far more than any Pep Barca team (apart from the super early ones probably), and he's been impressive navigating the Mbappe saga this year with PSG and this PSG squad isn't nearly as traditionally loaded as some have been in the past with other managers.
The Spain team was a team of kids. The exact same for Germany for those two tournaments.
They are Spain and Germany by name but they didn't have the same squads that they used to. When England played Germany and beat them in the Euros obviously great for England but it wasn't a prime German side.
Spain were fragile in the World Cup they lacked experience really and that's not Enriques fault, he couldn't go back in time and get the parents of the players to meet a year or two earlier and make them two years older.
Man, the fecking Caf…
Literally debating whether Tuchel, Zidane and Luis Enrique are good enough managers for United, while at the same time pushing De Zerbi or Amorin or Motta…
Tuchel is one of the best knockout tournament managers in world football — he is a genius at organizing the defense and setting up in a way that makes his teams tough to beat. He plays several different styles. His Bayern team will score more in the league this year than last with probably 95ish goals. He’s in the CL semis. He won a CL with Chelsea, two league titles with PSG and a CL final, a league title with Bayern. How can we blame him for the Chelsea clusterfeck when Potter and Pochettino have fecked it up too?
Why on earth would we go for an untested / unproven at this level manager over someone who has won several major trophies?
Literally debating whether Tuchel, Zidane and Luis Enrique are good enough managers for United, while at the same time pushing De Zerbi or Amorin or Motta…
Tuchel is one of the best knockout tournament managers in world football — he is a genius at organizing the defense and setting up in a way that makes his teams tough to beat. He plays several different styles. His Bayern team will score more in the league this year than last with probably 95ish goals. He’s in the CL semis. He won a CL with Chelsea, two league titles with PSG and a CL final, a league title with Bayern. How can we blame him for the Chelsea clusterfeck when Potter and Pochettino have fecked it up too?
Why on earth would we go for an untested / unproven at this level manager over someone who has won several major trophies?
I'm the one who posted the question about Enrique's reputation but in fairness they should have beaten Italy in the semis of the Euro's on the balance of play, they sort of scraped their way there but they played really well in that game and just weren't clinical enough (due to quality and inexperience). There wasn't much really anything different he could have done that night.
My only question in the first place was due to the fact that it's sometimes portrayed on here like he's one of the few guarantees and I'm not sure that's the case given his CV but there's no doubting that the highs have been very high.
He’s nowhere near good enough and it’s not one that needs explanation. For the same reasons Roberto Martinez isn’t good enough
Care to share with us why you think that?
It's ridiculous isn't it. It's like they expect untainted perfection. All three are truly good and potentially great managers. Tuchel's football actually looks really good to me, and unlike Amorim in particular, he's done it in top leagues, the Premier League in particular. I actually loved the football his Chelsea team played, as it actually reminded me of a great 442. The 343 he employed made great use of the flanks and move the ball from flank to flank in a way similar to our 98-03 days. It's the reason I've always liked the 343, because it has the ability allow for great wing play the way a 442 used to, whilst also offering the extra protection in the 3rd centre back, making it effective in modern football. His 4231 can work in similar ways as well. With Tuchel, I'm secure in knowing how his football would look in England, as at Chelsea he's already shown the format in the modern game. I've also seen how he's managed to handle some of the bigger fixtures, leading Chelsea to Champions League success and going toe to toe with City, despite having a weaker team. He's not Mourinho in sabotaging relationships, as most of the fallouts he's had have been justifiable.
Luis Enrique is also a phenomenal manager who again has also proven himself at the top level. Another manager I'd throw in the race is Valverde. Actually won things with Barca with a good system, that simply wasn't appreciated at Barca, not because it wasn't effective or didn't look good, but it didn't follow the tika taka principles, which aren't employed at United. He has a good demeanor, has the tactical nous to almost engineer an unbeaten season and can and has dealt with difficult egos without bringing too much attention to himself. He managed Barca through crisis and despite injuries to players that were recruited, was able to maintain a steady and effective style of football. He's essentially the Anti-Ten Haag.
I don't follow.
Valverde has Athletic playing well, up to 5th in La Liga and won the cup.
Tuchel is a great tactician. Practical. Would absolutely install patterns of play and implement a style.
I don’t think De Zerbi is good enough for the jump to Manchester United
He hasn't had the opportunity, but it will come sooner or later. I think he's a great manager who can manage a big club as well.
Give him a job like Dortmund/Sevilla/AC Milan, if he takes them to the next level then it’s a conversation I’ll have. But I’m not convinced. And that time is definitely not now IMO
Post of the day. A little perspective is all that’s needed.
Dortmund are a selling club, Sevilla and Milan are skint. I won't be surprised to see him at Liverpool or even United, or maybe Chelsea. City could be an option as well if Pep leaves in 2025, which I expect to happen. If he goes abroad it will be to a big club like Barca. He needs a lot of technical players to succeed but his "press-baiting" tactics have worked well wherever he's managed so far.
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The whole point of his falling out at Chelsea is well known which is he didn’t want to be more than head coach and was happy with the structure above him doing the football structure stuff but then Boehly got rid of the whole football structure and made himself de facto sporting director then expected Tuchel to fill in the rest which Tuchel didn’t want to do, at PSG he fell out with them over Leonardo being awful at his job and was actually proven right soon after he went.
We can’t defend or attack and concede a ridiculous amount of shots against us every single game so can’t even do the basics right, would you like us to just go straight into being an attacking team without doing the basics ? Would you rather we were Keegan’s Newcastle ? Tuchel to lay the foundations for a couple of years is about as good as it will get for us to start, so many want us to run before we can even crawl.
The poor quality English journalists attempts to make Southgate the next Man United is equaling shameful and embarrassing at this stage.
I think one of the worst things that Pep has brought to football is you have people that seriously believe that ETH, Potter or De Zerbi are better managers than Tuchel.
Anybody that plays any type of football anywhere near Peps is automatically considered the dogs bollocks and anyone who doesn't plays some shithouse park the bus football. It's a joke.
I hope Tuchel doesn't stay at Bayern because he's the only manager available right now that is good enough for United.
Anybody that plays any type of football anywhere near Peps is automatically considered the dogs bollocks and anyone who doesn't plays some shithouse park the bus football. It's a joke.
I hope Tuchel doesn't stay at Bayern because he's the only manager available right now that is good enough for United.
I'd much rather have Tuchel than keep Ten Hag
Good post. I agree wholeheartedly
It's no contest. If he's available then we should absolutely try to upgrade our coach, providing he's willing to work within the structure. And, going by his previous issues at other clubs where they had him doing more than coaching, I think he'd relish the opportunity.
I think it's a good chance of happening. There's been rumours that SJR met him and asked him to promise not to commit to another club before the summer. Then there's loads of journos saying he's really interested in coming here, whilst he has confirmed that he'll definitely leave Bayern. Is it a case of no smoke without fire?
Tuchel is currently the bookies' third favorite to become our new manager. So the odds should be increasing.
Southgate and Potter still lead the race...
Southgate and Potter still lead the race...
Bayern should have a German manager if there is one good enough and it seems like he is.
Potter will get the job..hopefully.Tuchel is currently the bookies' third favorite to become our new manager. So the odds should be increasing.
Southgate and Potter still lead the race...
Hiring Southgate will most definitely test my resolve to watch any United games next season..
You mean the Spain side that was within penalties of the final at the Euro's and outplayed the eventual champions?
Tuchel or Enrique would both be great appointments. I wouldn't expect either to be here more than 2 or 3 years, but that's fine by me. Turn us into a side that can play a cohesive style of football, while the new recruitment team settle in and shape a decent squad. Then if we need to move on to take the next step so be it.
I don't see any manager coming in and having this team challenging within 2 years given all the upheaval going on behind the scenes, and with the massive changes needed to the squad.
I don't see any manager coming in and having this team challenging within 2 years given all the upheaval going on behind the scenes, and with the massive changes needed to the squad.
Tuchel would be super. Really hope it’s not Southgate.
Kane, Bellingham and Foden are in the bookies top five for Ballon d’Or and England still seem a bit underwhelming.
Kane, Bellingham and Foden are in the bookies top five for Ballon d’Or and England still seem a bit underwhelming.
Who’s “Enrique?”
This, people should, for a moment, forget about competing with City/Arsenal/Liverpool cause we aren't there and we need to work towards that. Financial won't allow us to sign 6 - 8 players so there won't be a major clear out that can dramatically change the make up of the squad in one go. This means you need an experienced pragmatist not married to a particular system who can better utilize the undesirable holdouts that will survive the upcoming cull and still qualify for the CL. Tuchel can do that and win the EL/ECL.
In a couple of seasons the squad should be in a better shape, our finances should be in a better shape, upcoming managers would have sank or swam at wherever they go so it will be clearer who has it and who doesn't and we can make a change then. For example, Thiago Motta goes and does it at Juve, we sign 8 players in two summers that become permanent fixtures in our side and are physically and technically capable of playing the modern game, we are firmly established as a CL team and top 3 PL contender - we will be in a position to get him knowing that he is not a punt anymore and that our squad can get one big signing (RVPsque) and be in a position to compete for the league and CL.
I see Tuchel as a multi season caretaker who can deliver the minimum requirements on the pitch whilst Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox rebuild the team in the background.
He will be your hero baby
From the latest reports Wilcox will be the one to decide what style of play we will be looking to implement.
Personally, I think we need to chill out with the "possession based attacking" mantra like it's a specific tactical setup. All top teams who have a strong tactical base play attacking football. Good technicians on the ball means you keep possession more and that translates to better attacking. The first step should be getting a manager who can make this team play better than the sum of it's parts. Then, use 3 or 4 windows to gradually improve the team and rebuild the squad.
What sort of squad does he have to work with? There's still a good manager there.
I think it's important to note that players like De Bruyne, Rodri etc could play in a counter attacking team as well as they play in a possession team. The trick is in ensuring that every player we sign has mastered the basic technique in terms of ball control, first touch and short passing for example Ryan Giggs wasnt just a dribbling wizard or great weapon on the break he also did the basics at a high level.
If we set the criteria I have described above you won't have issues moving from style to style because then it's just a matter of instructions from the coach. This is where we have gone wrong with some signings, at our best we'd have Varane and Casemiro playing roles in our build up but they aren't the best on the ball so they become triggers for the press. This is where Wilcox has to stamp his authority and ensure that whoever we sign has the right technical and physical attributes before we look at anything else.
I think Bayern would be daft to let Tuchel go. Ok he didn't win the league but their opponents haven't lost a single game all season so its just one of those things.Tuchel is currently the bookies' third favorite to become our new manager. So the odds should be increasing.
Southgate and Potter still lead the race...
I'd love to have him. Frankly I'd rather keep Ten Hag than have Potter or Southgate though. One is a mid table manager and the other is probably championship level.
To the ETH haters: Seeing Bayern appoint Rangnick (probably), Liverpool getting Slot while both clubs are bigger than us right now. Do you really think there’s a suitable replacement available? Because I can’t see it.
The side that couldn't beat Croatia or Switzerland in 90 minutes, and then were even more underwhelming in the World Cup where they got knocked out by Morocco.
If he was available then I'd take Luis Enrique at United, by the way, so there's no need to get so defensive about his tenure at Spain. I just don't think he's the guy who we should wait around for.