Who replaces Ten Hag?

[3KDré]

Yes, a new manager can make the team play better for a while, but these players will let him down eventually. Not an ounce of winning mentality among this spineless squad.

I don't see the point in appointing a new manager (specially a big name) when the job ahead is way too big to ever being able to achieve the expectations.

Hopefully the Ineos people use ETH to finish cleaning up the deadwood from the team before even thinking on bringing a new manager.

This is one of those things that gets repeated until it becomes a truth, without anyone checking. Out of our XI today 7 of the players are the new manager's. In fact the players in our squad that have come from the most setbacks and worked their way into the team/form mostly come from past managers : Dalot, Bruno, Maguire, McTom, AWB Onana(new manager).

Aside from Varane because he barely played under him, these are the players left from Ole: Dalot, AWB, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, McT, Bruno, Rashford.

Dalot, AWB, Maguire, McT earned their way into the XI. Bruno has a good mentality. So Lindelof, Shaw, Rashford are the only ones you can question really. Two of them barely played this season.

As for the player's he's brought in - that's entirely on the manager. The soft core is something that is congruent with his time at Ajax.

 

[DevilRed]

Why, what qualities would Tuchel bring that would have him succeed where others didn’t?

How about the fact that he has won major trophies at every club he has managed?

 

[Jericholyte2]

How about the fact that he has won major trophies at every club he has managed?

José did too.

I’m asking what qualities he was, that others who failed don’t?

- winning trophies isn’t a quality, it’s a result
- José was a master tactician
- Ole was (for a time) a good man manager
- LvG had club and international experience
- José was great at getting players to run through walls for him
- LvG got multiple teams to play his way
- ETH got Ajax on a great CL run with a ridiculous GD over the season
- Some of the managers were good coaches
- some were strict disciplinarians
- so were nice and cushy with the players
- some got the players to play a strict style of play
- some got players to express themselves more

All of them have, thus far, failed.

So what would Tuchel bring that’s different, that would make him a success where others failed?

 

[pocco]

Yes, a new manager can make the team play better for a while, but these players will let him down eventually. Not an ounce of winning mentality among this spineless squad.

I don't see the point in appointing a new manager (specially a big name) when the job ahead is way too big to ever being able to achieve the expectations.

Hopefully the Ineos people use ETH to finish cleaning up the deadwood from the team before even thinking on bringing a new manager.

Why the feck do they need ETH to do that?

 

[DevilRed]

José did too.

I’m asking what qualities he was, that others who failed don’t?

- winning trophies isn’t a quality, it’s a result
- José was a master tactician
- Ole was (for a time) a good man manager
- LvG had club and international experience
- José was great at getting players to run through walls for him
- LvG got multiple teams to play his way
- ETH got Ajax on a great CL run with a ridiculous GD over the season
- Some of the managers were good coaches
- some were strict disciplinarians
- so were nice and cushy with the players
- some got the players to play a strict style of play
- some got players to express themselves more

All of them have, thus far, failed.

So what would Tuchel bring that’s different, that would make him a success where others failed?

The mental gymnastics going on here

 

[STYLOISRED]

I think it's important to note that players like De Bruyne, Rodri etc could play in a counter attacking team as well as they play in a possession team. The trick is in ensuring that every player we sign has mastered the basic technique in terms of ball control, first touch and short passing for example Ryan Giggs wasnt just a dribbling wizard or great weapon on the break he also did the basics at a high level.

If we set the criteria I have described above you won't have issues moving from style to style because then it's just a matter of instructions from the coach. This is where we have gone wrong with some signings, at our best we'd have Varane and Casemiro playing roles in our build up but they aren't the best on the ball so they become triggers for the press. This is where Wilcox has to stamp his authority and ensure that whoever we sign has the right technical and physical attributes before we look at anything else.

I agree that recruitment is very vital. Looking at real Madrid for example, they do not care about building any strong tactical identity but instead Focus on proper recruitment of players with sound technical ability and a winning mentality. Then it's all about ensuring that whoever is hired as manager elevates their performances with whatever setup he chooses. It's why they are so adaptable and can play so many different styles to great effect.

 

[pocco]

José did too.

I’m asking what qualities he was, that others who failed don’t?

- winning trophies isn’t a quality, it’s a result
- José was a master tactician
- Ole was (for a time) a good man manager
- LvG had club and international experience
- José was great at getting players to run through walls for him
- LvG got multiple teams to play his way
- ETH got Ajax on a great CL run with a ridiculous GD over the season
- Some of the managers were good coaches
- some were strict disciplinarians
- so were nice and cushy with the players
- some got the players to play a strict style of play
- some got players to express themselves more

All of them have, thus far, failed.

So what would Tuchel bring that’s different, that would make him a success where others failed?

What are you even trying to argue? He's a completely viable option and he's won the big trophies. He's no doubt better than Ten Hag, so I don't see what your issue is.

 

[Ubik]

What are you even trying to argue? He's a completely viable option and he's won the big trophies. He's no doubt better than Ten Hag, so I don't see what your issue is.

Just don't get how people still have this mindset after the last decade.

 

[Abraxas]

I think De Zerbi would be an appropriate candidate.

For our project you would think they want somebody ambitious, capable of a pleasing style, capable of improving players. Results and CV matter, but we're not about to win major honours so you also need someone with patience to oversee a project, not someone that will come in and can't manage up and is a diva.

We're going to be at the start of a cycle starting this summer with this new ownership structure and to me it does make sense to have fresh eyes on the squad, a fresh relationship between owners and manager based on mutually wanting to work together, and probably someone young, exciting and ambitious to take us on.

 

[Irwin99]

This is one of those things that gets repeated until it becomes a truth, without anyone checking. Out of our XI today 7 of the players are the new manager's. In fact the players in our squad that have come from the most setbacks and worked their way into the team/form mostly come from past managers : Dalot, Bruno, Maguire, McTom, AWB Onana(new manager).

Aside from Varane because he barely played under him, these are the players left from Ole: Dalot, AWB, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, McT, Bruno, Rashford.

Dalot, AWB, Maguire, McT earned their way into the XI. Bruno has a good mentality. So Lindelof, Shaw, Rashford are the only ones you can question really. Two of them barely played this season.

As for the player's he's brought in - that's entirely on the manager. The soft core is something that is congruent with his time at Ajax.

You're right on the players the manager/club has brought in, but I keep saying this, you'd be surprised how many of those players (including Martial who you left out and who, in our club's infinite wisdom, is our only back up striker) have formed 5 or more of our starting 11s in all our league defeats this season. Just the 4 today (Dalot, Maguire, Bruno, AwB, and also Mctominay off the bench) three of them who have actually played well at times, but go back and look at the majority of our league defeats this season and you'll see quite a lot of the 'old' players featuring.

This isn't a great manager leading us but the majority of these aren't great players either. And if you're expecting a new manager to come in and do anything other than manage a 50-50 battle for top 4 with these players you're being unrealistic.

It's a combination of bad management (which will correctly result in EtH being sacked), average/decent players hanging on for dear life at the club season in, season out, and naturally inconsistent young players. Also, add to this retirement players like Varane, Casemiro and Eriksen who are probably already planning their next move away from the club. EtH should go but if we ever want to do anything other than scrap for top 4 each season, we need better players and just hoping a new manager will sort it our isn't going to cut it. I'd honestly only keep Bruno and Dalot from that list.

 

[devilish]

José did too.

I’m asking what qualities he was, that others who failed don’t?

- winning trophies isn’t a quality, it’s a result
- José was a master tactician
- Ole was (for a time) a good man manager
- LvG had club and international experience
- José was great at getting players to run through walls for him
- LvG got multiple teams to play his way
- ETH got Ajax on a great CL run with a ridiculous GD over the season
- Some of the managers were good coaches
- some were strict disciplinarians
- so were nice and cushy with the players
- some got the players to play a strict style of play
- some got players to express themselves more

All of them have, thus far, failed.

So what would Tuchel bring that’s different, that would make him a success where others failed?

First of all no manager will succeed at United unless we get our backroom staff in order. That mean better fitness people, better negotiators, better sporting director, better technical director, better CEO and better communication from top to bottom. Secondly while I don't deny that the manager is indeed a problem its pretty evident that we have some serious attitude problems within the squad. These things are something we have to take in serious account

Now let's analyze the managers we had since SAF retired. Moyes was the EPL proven manager. Unfortunately he never worked at top club level and by the time he joined United his tactics were already becoming dated. LVG replaced him. He was Woodward's version of top manager. Again by the time LVG signed for us his tactics were already dated having been previously sacked at Barca and Bayern. LVG saddled us with some unsuited players such as tiny Blind, Rojo, Depay and co. Then Mou came. He was considered as the EPL proven winner. Again by the time Mou signed for us his best years were already behind him. Then we went for the former player, the Ole and the wheel. Ole had 1 EPL experience as a manager that went horribly and proven to be completely out of depth. Finally we went for one of the most promising manager at the time in ETH. Similarly to LVG he had no idea how the EPL works and the Eredivisie invasion returned.

As said no manager will ever succeed unless we sort the football side of the club. We can't go for a 30m rated winger only to spend 80m for him. Now assuming that's sorted then what do we need? In my opinion we need

a- someone who already worked in a difficult environment. That would help him navigate at this club
b- someone who had worked with big names. If those big players happen to be ours then the better. He'll know whom to trust and whom not, who should be shown the door and whose not
c- he understand the EPL, its physicality, its ridiculous high tempo and its culture. No more CMs made up of 1 DM with two no 10s, no more 5ft10 CBs etc
d- his tactics needs to be modern and effective.

I can only think of one man that fits the bill ie Mckenna. He had previously worked with United, he understands the EPL, he knows exactly whom to trust having seen not 1 but 2 managers being backstabbed by their squad and his tactics at Ipswich are off the charts and can fit our current team quite well. If this is set to become a head coach job than Mckenna is perfect for it

 

[Jericholyte2]

The mental gymnastics going on here

Where am I lying or displaying mental gymnastics? I’ll wait…

 

[Jericholyte2]

What are you even trying to argue? He's a completely viable option and he's won the big trophies. He's no doubt better than Ten Hag, so I don't see what your issue is.

LvG was no doubt better than Moyes because he’d more experience at bigger clubs.
Jose was no doubt better than LvG because he brought winning tactics that won trophies.
Ole was no doubt better than Jose because he got what the club needed and was able to wrap an arm around players.
ETH ‘was’ no doubt better than Ole because he took a relatively small team (in financial terms) on an amazing run, playing great football, beating the best in Europe.

So, if Tuchel is no doubt better than ETH, why?

 

[#07]

I am all for Tuchel. At this point I would be up for Potter. Ten Hag has self destructed. He's gotta go.

 

[AneRu]

I agree that recruitment is very vital. Looking at real Madrid for example, they do not care about building any strong tactical identity but instead Focus on proper recruitment of players with sound technical ability and a winning mentality. Then it's all about ensuring that whoever is hired as manager elevates their performances with whatever setup he chooses. It's why they are so adaptable and can play so many different styles to great effect.

Yeah Real Madrid, Bayern and City, if Pep went to Madrid he wouldn't need to ship out 10 to play his style because the players there can play any style. We need to do this consistently over five summers and our bottom level will rise.

 

[pocco]

LvG was no doubt better than Moyes because he’d more experience at bigger clubs.
Jose was no doubt better than LvG because he brought winning tactics that won trophies.
Ole was no doubt better than Jose because he got what the club needed and was able to wrap an arm around players.
ETH ‘was’ no doubt better than Ole because he took a relatively small team (in financial terms) on an amazing run, playing great football, beating the best in Europe.

So, if Tuchel is no doubt better than ETH, why?

Because he's proven it, is the top and bottom of it. Why do you think ETH is better than Tuchel?

I think he's better tactically, better at making in game decisions, more flexible in his approach, better communicator. I could go on...

I prefer his possession based approach than the transitional one we now have. I think that will lead to more success and control in games. And he's ultimately proven he can implement it at multiple teams, winning trophies and successfully succeeding other good managers.

 

[AneRu]

I think De Zerbi would be an appropriate candidate.

For our project you would think they want somebody ambitious, capable of a pleasing style, capable of improving players. Results and CV matter, but we're not about to win major honours so you also need someone with patience to oversee a project, not someone that will come in and can't manage up and is a diva.

We're going to be at the start of a cycle starting this summer with this new ownership structure and to me it does make sense to have fresh eyes on the squad, a fresh relationship between owners and manager based on mutually wanting to work together, and probably someone young, exciting and ambitious to take us on.

The challenge with a system manager right now is that our squad is so all over the place and we don't have the capacity to do the required business and finish it off in one window. Now what will happen is that we could sign 4 players for his system but still find ourselves relying on Jose-Ole-ETH remnants that will just let him down and get him the sack again.

The benefit of getting Tuchel is that you can rely on him to do a solid job with whatever you have at the moment. Tuchel would come in and still find uses for Maguire, McTominay, Rashford et al and get them to qualify for the CL. So you could buy four players for him in positions we are really weak/light in and he can get on with it. Next season you add four more and you are stronger.

I don't think De Zerbi can achieve CL football without a major overhaul of the current squad.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Because he's proven it.

Oh for Christ’s sake!

How has he proven it? What had he done that proves it?

 

[pocco]

Oh for Christ’s sake!

How has he proven it? What had he done that proves it?

Apologies, I hit send. I've edited the post.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Apologies, I hit send. I've edited the post.

Didn't he have to leave Chelsea because he ‘lost’ the players by being too strict and inflexible?

He also failed to win the Bundesliga with Bayern WITH Harry Kane!

 

[pocco]

Didn't he have to leave Chelsea because he ‘lost’ the players by being too strict and inflexible?

He also failed to win the Bundesliga with Bayern WITH Harry Kane!

I think there was a lot more to the reasons why he left Chelsea. Boehly had him acting like DoF by asking him to negotiate with players, whilst he just wanted to coach. Amongst other things. He had shown at Mainz, Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern that he can play in various different setups to suit his team. So he's very flexible in his approach, though it always centres around possession and usually a pressing game.

He failed against a team that has gone unbeaten and is on course to win three trophies. It happens and you just have to take your hat off to Leverkusen. I read earlier that, if they win the last 3 games, then Bayern will finish with more points than they have in 4 of the last 5 seasons. Basically title winning form in a normal season. Plus they're in the CL semi final.

If you can defend ETH, then it would be piss easy to defend the season Bayern have had. I think they're making a mistake, hopefully we capitalise if that's who we want.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Didn't he have to leave Chelsea because he ‘lost’ the players by being too strict and inflexible?

He also failed to win the Bundesliga with Bayern WITH Harry Kane!

For the Chelsea thing, I read that they regretted sacking him and wanted him back afterwards

But I can’t remember where I read that, so this probably isn’t going to convince you at all

 

[Catt]

What about Emery?

 

[RedBanker]

First of all no manager will succeed at United unless we get our backroom staff in order. That mean better fitness people, better negotiators, better sporting director, better technical director, better CEO and better communication from top to bottom. Secondly while I don't deny that the manager is indeed a problem its pretty evident that we have some serious attitude problems within the squad. These things are something we have to take in serious account

Now let's analyze the managers we had since SAF retired. Moyes was the EPL proven manager. Unfortunately he never worked at top club level and by the time he joined United his tactics were already becoming dated. LVG replaced him. He was Woodward's version of top manager. Again by the time LVG signed for us his tactics were already dated having been previously sacked at Barca and Bayern. LVG saddled us with some unsuited players such as tiny Blind, Rojo, Depay and co. Then Mou came. He was considered as the EPL proven winner. Again by the time Mou signed for us his best years were already behind him. Then we went for the former player, the Ole and the wheel. Ole had 1 EPL experience as a manager that went horribly and proven to be completely out of depth. Finally we went for one of the most promising manager at the time in ETH. Similarly to LVG he had no idea how the EPL works and the Eredivisie invasion returned.

As said no manager will ever succeed unless we sort the football side of the club. We can't go for a 30m rated winger only to spend 80m for him. Now assuming that's sorted then what do we need? In my opinion we need

a- someone who already worked in a difficult environment. That would help him navigate at this club
b- someone who had worked with big names. If those big players happen to be ours then the better. He'll know whom to trust and whom not, who should be shown the door and whose not
c- he understand the EPL, its physicality, its ridiculous high tempo and its culture. No more CMs made up of 1 DM with two no 10s, no more 5ft10 CBs etc
d- his tactics needs to be modern and effective.

I can only think of one man that fits the bill ie Mckenna. He had previously worked with United, he understands the EPL, he knows exactly whom to trust having seen not 1 but 2 managers being backstabbed by their squad and his tactics at Ipswich are off the charts and can fit our current team quite well. If this is set to become a head coach job than Mckenna is perfect for it

We are not looking for success. We want someone to not be an utter fraud like Hag playing pathetic football and stealing a living off our club.

 

[Abraxas]

The challenge with a system manager right now is that our squad is so all over the place and we don't have the capacity to do the required business and finish it off in one window. Now what will happen is that we could sign 4 players for his system but still find ourselves relying on Jose-Ole-ETH remnants that will just let him down and get him the sack again.

The benefit of getting Tuchel is that you can rely on him to do a solid job with whatever you have at the moment. Tuchel would come in and still find uses for Maguire, McTominay, Rashford et al and get them to qualify for the CL. So you could buy four players for him in positions we are really weak/light in and he can get on with it. Next season you add four more and you are stronger.

I don't think De Zerbi can achieve CL football without a major overhaul of the current squad.

I see your point.

But I'm not sure if scraping by simply to achieve CL football is a priority over starting from scratch, imposing a style of play, and letting whoever is inadequate show themselves as such and they'll fall by the wayside over time.

That's exactly what happened when the likes of Pep and Klopp came into the league. They didn't exactly compromise themselves in their demands and play, it didn't all work but they quickly saw who was incompetent. It might involve a bit of pain but it at least sets our stall out to say this is what we're going to do, and give us time and we'll get the pieces in place.

To me throwing a Tommy Tuchel at it just looking at a result is kind of what we've been doing all along. Throwing managers at problems hoping they'll produce something. He might well do but it seems like a time to approach it from the ground up to me. It's been that bad in the league and CL that it can't really get any lower, so why not start a new system?

 

[DevilRed]

Where am I lying or displaying mental gymnastics? I’ll wait…

Ole was no doubt better than Jose because he got what the club needed and was able to wrap an arm around players.

FFS.

I wish he'd wrap his arm around you and tell you to put down the keyboard.

 

[Nicolarra90]

Yes, a new manager can make the team play better for a while, but these players will let him down eventually. Not an ounce of winning mentality among this spineless squad.

I don't see the point in appointing a new manager (specially a big name) when the job ahead is way too big to ever being able to achieve the expectations.

Hopefully the Ineos people use ETH to finish cleaning up the deadwood from the team before even thinking on bringing a new manager.

What players!!! The ones that played today were mostly the ones he bought or promoted from the academy!

Avíspate reweon!

 

[zenith]

It's really depressing that there is really no high quality or obvious candidate or there to replace ETH.

Tuchel is just coming off quite an epic failure, plus he's managed what four clubs in a decade.

De zebri seems to be on a downward trend

And Southgate will probably see us playing with eriksen in midfield for the next three years. So let's not even get started there

 

[Jericholyte2]

FFS.

I wish he'd wrap his arm around you and tell you to put down the keyboard.

Seriously, 5 or 6 exchanges now and you haven’t once addressed my question, simply throwing around insults.

 

[AneRu]

I see your point.

But I'm not sure if scraping by simply to achieve CL football is a priority over starting from scratch, imposing a style of play, and letting whoever is inadequate show themselves as such and they'll fall by the wayside over time.

That's exactly what happened when the likes of Pep and Klopp came into the league. They didn't exactly compromise themselves in their demands and play, it didn't all work but they quickly saw who was incompetent. It might involve a bit of pain but it at least sets our stall out to say this is what we're going to do, and give us time and we'll get the pieces in place.

To me throwing a Tommy Tuchel at it just looking at a result is kind of what we've been doing all along. Throwing managers at problems hoping they'll produce something. He might well do but it seems like a time to approach it from the ground up to me. It's been that bad in the league and CL that it can't really get any lower, so why not start a new system?

It's not just about CL football but getting results and staying relevant whilst the squad is rebuilt in the background. What I would do if was making the decisions is:
1. Get a solid manager who can utilise what you have to achieve some sort of competitiveness
2. Buy a DM, RCB, back up LB and an attacker to raise the level of the team.

If one and two succeed then I would add four more players in the following summer to build on the first season. Its now reliant on what the manager is achieving, suppose Tuchel gets us to third twice in a row there is no reason to move on from him in the 3rd season. By then we should have the core, especially the defensive core, of the team set and we can look to add a marquee signing or two to take us up a level.

 

[peridigm]

What about Emery?

Just signed an extension last week didn’t he?

 

[DevilRed]

Seriously, 5 or 6 exchanges now and you haven’t once addressed my question, simply throwing around insults.

I'm honestly not sure how one can respond to someone who thinks, and I quote, " Ole was no doubt better than Jose because he got what the club needed and was able to wrap an arm around players. "

Genuinely not sure how a conversation can even go on after a statement like that.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Seriously, 5 or 6 exchanges now and you haven’t once addressed my question, simply throwing around insults.

Ole was better than Jose despite winning nothing. Right.

 

[Jericholyte2]

I think there was a lot more to the reasons why he left Chelsea. Boehly had him acting like DoF by asking him to negotiate with players, whilst he just wanted to coach. Amongst other things. He had shown at Mainz, Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern that he can play in various different setups to suit his team. So he's very flexible in his approach, though it always centres around possession and usually a pressing game.

He failed against a team that has gone unbeaten and is on course to win three trophies. It happens and you just have to take your hat off to Leverkusen. I read earlier that, if they win the last 3 games, then Bayern will finish with more points than they have in 4 of the last 5 seasons. Basically title winning form in a normal season. Plus they're in the CL semi final.

If you can defend ETH, then it would be piss easy to defend the season Bayern have had. I think they're making a mistake, hopefully we capitalise if that's who we want.

I’m not defending ETH (although the injuries are a mitigating factor for me, but that’s just my opinion), what I’m trying to do is play Devil’s Advocate and show how various ‘profiles’ of manager have all come in, spent hundreds of millions, and ultimately had the players turn on them and fail.

I personally like Tuchel, but from the outside all I’ve seen of him has s being brutally honest, harsh with players, unrelenting in training etc.

This group will turn on him at the drop of a hat.

 

[Jericholyte2]

I'm honestly not sure how one can respond to someone who thinks, and I quote, " Ole was no doubt better than Jose because he got what the club needed and was able to wrap an arm around players. "

Genuinely not sure how a conversation can even go on after a statement like that.

Ole was better than Jose despite winning nothing. Right.

I’m trying to detail how WE all reacted when each manager came in!

We go around the same roundabout and it’s always failed.

And @DevilRed that’s now 7 where you’ve failed to offer any substantive contribution. Are you aiming for a record of some sort?

 

[Catt]

Just signed an extension last week didn’t he?

Aha, might be difficult then

Just as well

 

[pocco]

I’m not defending ETH (although the injuries are a mitigating factor for me, but that’s just my opinion), what I’m trying to do is play Devil’s Advocate and show how various ‘profiles’ of manager have all come in, spent hundreds of millions, and ultimately had the players turn on them and fail.

I personally like Tuchel, but from the outside all I’ve seen of him has s being brutally honest, harsh with players, unrelenting in training etc.

This group will turn on him at the drop of a hat.

Hopefully that's a thing of the past. And, to be honest, I don't even think our players have turned on ETH. I think those that were causing trouble have been shipped off. But I think Ineos and our new management team will be all over that sort of behaviour if it becomes a problem again.

And this group isn't the group that turned on Jose, LVG, Moyes etc. It's even largely different to the squad Ole had. Personally I think Jose was the only manager good enough to be here, but there were various issues that went against him and he had enough in the end. But I'd say it was right manager, wrong time.

 

[Abraxas]

It's not just about CL football but getting results and staying relevant whilst the squad is rebuilt in the background. What I would do if was making the decisions is:
1. Get a solid manager who can utilise what you have to achieve some sort of competitiveness
2. Buy a DM, RCB, back up LB and an attacker to raise the level of the team.

If one and two succeed then I would add four more players in the following summer to build on the first season. Its now reliant on what the manager is achieving, suppose Tuchel gets us to third twice in a row there is no reason to move on from him in the 3rd season. By then we should have the core, especially the defensive core, of the team set and we can look to add a marquee signing or two to take us up a level.

How do you know who will be solid and ensure competitiveness? You would think ETH should be capable of competitiveness, it's not a high barrier of expectation for a manager that was considered one of the most promising in Europe. So probably there is no guarantee that with this squad that it will be achieved if competitiveness is defined as CL football as there's nothing on paper that separates us from multiple other clubs. ETH showed he can do that too, just not this year, I don't think anyone ensures this idea of competitiveness, not even Tuchel. So if they don't and they're not exactly aligned with everything the technical staff want then it would be time wasted, that's why I don't think it's all about honours on the CV.

For me it's a start from scratch job and now's the perfect time to do that because if you have an army of upper management coming in then surely they have a clear vision. Clear idea of the football to play, clear squad ideas, clear profiles, and clearly you need the manager you think will align. I don't see any point in postponing those ideas for a later date or making any compromise whatsoever in the plan. You have to be bold, commit to it, suffer the pain required with some of the inadequate players and be able to see through the murk and stick to your guns.

It might be that the next manager is a stepping stone, in fact it's quite probable but I still think you have to be absolutely commited between the staff and the manager so there is a coherency to this process. If that's Tuchel then so be it, for me he wouldn't be that fit due to his personality, but we should definitely be appointing for the right reasons and that is to align coach and structure instead of relying on managers as islands unto themselves. Every signing moving towards the bigger picture, nothing short term or just because we imagine it will produce CL football or a mythical competitiveness that isn't guaranteed - it should all be about the bigger picture.

 

[UnitedSofa]

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[Jericholyte2]

Hopefully that's a thing of the past. And, to be honest, I don't even think our players have turned on ETH. I think those that were causing trouble have been shipped off. But I think Ineos and our new management team will be all over that sort of behaviour if it becomes a problem again.

And this group isn't the group that turned on Jose, LVG, Moyes etc. It's even largely different to the squad Ole had. Personally I think Jose was the only manager good enough to be here, but there were various issues that went against him and he had enough in the end. But I'd say it was right manager, wrong time.

Shaw, Rashford and Martial have gone through LvG, Jose, Ole and now ETH.

Dalot, Lindelof, Shaw, McT, Rashford, Martial have gone through Jose, Ole and now ETH

Dalot, Maguire, Varane, Lindelof, Shaw, McT, Rashford, Martial, Sancho have gone through Ole and now ETH.

That’s 1/4 of the squad that is now on their 3rd manager at least at the club, and the same cycle is happening. This is not a coincidence.