Why are we dropping the standards for Ole?

welshwingwizard

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The goal of playing attacking football and blooding youth cannot come at the expense of losing games. Ole is doing what he can to win games first and foremost. Attacking just because it is exciting is foolish with a squad deficient in midfield and forwards. Being adventurous with rookies while the game is in jeopardy is historically a losing strategy.

Given time I’m confident Ole will back his attacking and youth talk. But first he needs to find a winning formula with the best he has at his disposal.
He isn't winning games though is he so that argument doesn't make sense. I think those of us who are critical of Ole would be giving him more leeway if he were playing the talented youth or had us at least trying to play a certain way ala Lampard where you can see what he is trying to implement even though they aren't quite there.

Ole talks a good game about playing a certain way but i don't recognise that on the field.
 

Kemizee

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If he fails to beat Leicester. Anything but a win against West ham he deserve the sack on the spot. Thats 1 win in 6 league games and add last 2 months ofblast season its enough
Maybe you have not followed our history and pattern of managerial sack. This stingy board is never gonna sack Ole with a heavy compensation to lose at the beginning of the season. They will only act when he has lost top 4 possibility and the compensation is reduced heavily. It's all financials at the moment. This is no longer a football club!
 

Denis79

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In what way is trying out a promising young manager, one who will leave the club in a better state than he found it if it doesn’t work out, an idiot move?
Then they have confidence, right? So back him. Size of United isn't a testing ground.
 

Ramshock

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I don't trust Ole but we're stuck with him till the end of the season. Anything else will lead to yet another knee jerk action with the new manager being blamed of all the ills caused by Ole's inexperience and the board's incompetence.

Ole and the board made their bed with this unbalanced side filled with hungry players from the local pond. They need to lay into it.
You dont trust him?
 

Amerifan

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Then they have confidence, right? So back him. Size of United isn't a testing ground.
Pure speculation, but I think we planned to back him when we hired him. Then the season ended poorly and we lost our nerve. We did all the steps of a rebuild over the summer except invest. I expect that will happen once Ole has proven himself. If things don’t work out with Ole, we’ll invest with whoever replaces him.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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Shall we expect (new manager) thread every day now?

Why can't people understand that last year doesn't mean anything?! Why can't people see that we are going forward? Why can't people understand that this is not Football Manager 2020?

Just for fun, RedCafes own Golden Manager hasn't won anything in football as a manager despite having better team than Solskjaer. Think about that. And still you want him to replace Solskjaer? I'm not saying that Pochettino is bad manager. Just giving fact.
Struggling to see how we're going forward.
 

fergiesarmy1

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I get that it's a rebuild but why accept not beating Palace, Wolves and Soton? If you're saying that's just our level at the moment you are basically saying we're a relegation team.
I don’t think anyone is arguing we shouldn’t be beating these tea
First of all Ole said he was happy with the transfer window. At no time did he register any hint of displeasure by saying 'it was a good window. We could have done better or something like that...

2ndly, whose fault is it that he sold the only reliable goalscorer of his to Inter and put his faith in two inconsistent youngsters whose bottom levels are worse than Troy Deeney's?
He is not going to say otherwise and selling Lukaku and Sanchez while making many attempts to sign an alternative striker points to something else, like Woodward fecking up yet again.
 

ayushreddevil9

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Say what you want about it being some random shit but being English and having a 'saintly, angelic' character seems to be our mantra for recruitment since Ole took over. We are the only 'top' club still stuck in the past about how players and football clubs should behave and be run. We have cnuts for e.g playing for us like Jesse Lingard, Marcos Rojo etc but if you mentioned for instance that a world class player like Eden Hazard is available, or say Rabiot, you will have people questioning their attitude and how they would behave more than their actual footballing abilities and professionalism. Pogba is a major scapegoat among those with this mentality and guess what, we will continue to assemble an average team of 'British, hardworking, hungry, runs around, youthful', bleeds the club' players who win nothing while other top teams gather the best, talented players and keep on winning the majors.
Tbf i called the 'rabiot wanting to play with Pogba to rebuild a good reputation for NT' part random.
 

manunited1919

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Ole has been dealt a different hand to those 3, he’s only got 3 strikers none of whom are 20 plus a season goal scorers, our midfield barely contributes, the only area we have seemingly improved is defence so expectations have to be adjusted this season. It’s ludicrous not to.
It’s a good thing you used the word “seemingly” about our defensive improvement. Chris Smalling has been our best defender over the last few years (despite his lack of passing ability), and he just got shipped out to Roma. OWB is a definite improvement. But the jury is still out about the defensive performance of Maguire + Lindelof being much better than Smalling + Lindelof. I would say 2 steps forward 1 step backward for our defense.
 

fergiesarmy1

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It’s a good thing you used the word “seemingly” about our defensive improvement. Chris Smalling has been our best defender over the last few years (despite his lack of passing ability), and he just got shipped out to Roma. OWB is a definite improvement. But the jury is still out about the defensive performance of Maguire + Lindelof being much better than Smalling + Lindelof. I would say 2 steps forward 1 step backward for our defense.
Just trying to throw some positive spin on things :lol:
 

UnofficialDevil

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Exactly the point of this thread. I can separate Ole as a player and Ole as a manager.
Nicely said and a great example. Somebody who obviously so passionate about Ole the player to have him as a username but sensible enough to admit he is no good as a manager. I wish others would admit that too. If he wasn't an ex United player he would be getting zero excuses.
 

Kush

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I find it rather funny that anyone who questions Oles' management this early on are immediately shut down by his backers who say that it's only been 4 games. But then hail how 3 of his signings are looking amazing, when again it's been only 4 games.... You couldn't make this shit up.
 
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Hawks2008

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Next 3 league games are Leicester, West Ham, and Arsenal. Anything less than 7 points will be very worrying.
 

snowkarl

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Next 3 league games are Leicester, West Ham, and Arsenal. Anything less than 7 points will be very worrying.
Would be extremely unsurprising if we won 1, lost 1 and drew 1.

Very difficult games, all 3.
 

tenpoless

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His 3 signings are our 3 best players, and will all probably spend the rest of their careers here. Scott McT has gone from a guy who Jose would start 2 or 3 times per season, to an undroppable midfield force. Greenwood will soon be a starter worth 80 million. Garner will be worth 80 million in a year or two if he avoids injuries. We're a Declan Rice and a Jadon Sancho away from being a nailed on top 4 team again.

But hey, we could have just hired some fashionable coach like Allegri and spent 500 million on a quick fix, and brought in Willian for 80 million instead of James...... Oh wait that sounds familiar
Phil Jones 140m the new Duncan Edwards.
 

Isotope

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There's 2 of them, both residing in Germany at present. Kai Havertz (I won't mind if it's for Pogba, the money would help) and Jadon Sancho. They could launch us into a whole new era of success. Of course we need a solid DM behind them but those kids could be the catalyst for our revival.
Agreed with a DM and RW. And if Pogba leave, we need a creative midfielder.
 

Majima

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Read it.

That would assume we would change Ole for a similar level of manager. Unless we're planning on plucking his replacement from the Norwegian league too, that's unlikely.

What if you were to believe that Ole is not even a top 10 manager to begin with?

In English football, clubs who have just sacked a manager tend to replace them with a “low talented, experienced” replacement. In a quarter of cases, the new manager actually has a lower estimated ability than their predecessors.
We done precisely that, with the added bonus of him being inexperienced too.

But... it did make perfect sense at the time, a familiar face steadying the ship whilst we planned for significant change at the club with a dof etc... I was totally on board with that... but all that was then thrown out of the window and he was given the permanent job off the back of a short sample size albeit impressive.

They didn't even wait to see how he handled the bad results. That wasn't a thorough hiring process at all.

It smacks of a cop out from the board, who would much rather put someone green in charge who they can control and manipulate the fans romanticism & nostalgia with, because they are totally resistant to the required changes involved for us to compete.

Ole never got the job in the first place based off his own past credentials as a coach. If he wasn't a Utd legend, he wouldn't have even been on the shortlist to begin with.

Regardless of how nice i think he is, I just don't agree with that.
 
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Will Singh

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Does anyone think Ole can do any better then Mourinho? If Pogba leaves with Oke we will be truly fecked but with Mourinho I would have been more confident of a replacement.

So that's what it's down to trust, Ole is a legend but ain't done nothing for us to back him with in managerial sence, so its more a gamble we are giving him a chance and hoping for the best.

I think it will be once he can't hit he's target which I hope is top 4 then he will be sacked, if that is he's target then sack him already because there ain't no way we are playing CL next season!
 

redIndianDevil

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You are posting this and wonder why I defended Jose when we finished 2nd. Jose looked at the team and said 2nd is a very good finish. People didn't like that. Now you want to offer the idea that the team might not be good enough to finish 4th and there is a possible excuse for us to finish 7th. I'll see myself out.
He didn't just look at the squad did he? He spent truckloads of cash, alienated our good players to support trash like Lukaku, Sanchez and Matic, broke our already high wage structure, wanted to buy even more expensive crap like Willian, Perisic...i could go on but you get the gist right?
 

roonster09

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It's crazy to suggest these results mean nothing. Results will determine utlimately if Solskjaer is employed or unemployed come the end of the season. Last year we saw this team lose morale and become mentally weak which concluded our season. We have started this season with exactly the same trajectory as last season. That is a major concern because we have won three games in 15. I don't care if Beckham, Ronaldo or Cantona was in charge. Ole's record is horrendous, as soon as the "time" argument passes if things don't change many will realise he's a below average manager.

I truly do wish the best for Solskjaer but I think he only points us in the right direction, he doesn't however have anything in his arsenal to take us to the destination. Someone else will have to do that, who remains the mystery.
Read complete post.

Not comparing us with City but these results means nothing. It's what he achieves at the end of the season or the progress by midseason counts.
Doesn't matter against which team we lose as long as he reaches his goals.
 
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redIndianDevil

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Had that one included, just realized the mistake though. Gonna blame manutd.com on that one :lol: They dont have the league away game against Wolves in their fixture list last season for some reason. Irrelevant either way, but ok. Shit 12 game run last season, amazing 17 game run before that 12 game run. Overall for Ole for half a season? A CL and FA cup quarter final while being 3rd in the league during his time in charge both in real results, and in underlying statistics if you want to look at that.

Go back to December. If you were told that Ole would have been best of the rest after City and Liverpool in the league, knocked out PSG in the CL but lost to Barca and then beat Chelsea and Arsenal away in the FA cup but lost to Wolves, I'm sure that every single United fan wouldve bitten your arm off for that, considering where we were prior to that. He did that. But no, let's ignore all that right?
There is a phenomenon called "new manager bounce" and it's real. We were under such a negative cloud from Mourinho that our players were absolutely fired up after we fired that cnut.

Look at this in this angle, a manager comes to a new club, has no time to coach so he goes on a poor run at the start but as time goes he coaches his team and they improve steadily. On the other hand we have OGS who took over a team and produced instant results but as time goes we become poorer and poorer. Which of these two would you call a good manager?
 

Leftback99

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Read it.

That would assume we would change Ole for a similar level of manager. Unless we're planning on plucking his replacement from the Norwegian league too, that's unlikely.

What if you were to believe that Ole is not even a top 10 manager to begin with?



We done precisely that, with the added bonus of him being inexperienced too.

But... it did make perfect sense at the time, a familiar face steadying the ship whilst we planned for significant change at the club with a dof etc... I was totally on board with that... but all that was then thrown out of the window and he was given the permanent job off the back of a short sample size albeit impressive.

They didn't even wait to see how he handled the bad results. That wasn't a thorough hiring process at all.

It smacks of a cop out from the board, who would much rather put someone green in charge who they can control and manipulate the fans romanticism & nostalgia with, because they are totally resistant to the required changes involved for us to compete.

Ole never got the job in the first place based off his own past credentials as a coach. If he wasn't a Utd legend, he wouldn't have even been on the shortlist to begin with.

Regardless of how nice i think he is, I just don't agree with that.
We had Mourinho who is a top class manager and results haven't got worse, in fact if anything the underlying numbers are better (expected goals has us third since Solskjaer came in). As the article says, a lot of it is just down to luck.
 

Revaulx

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Probably the guy meant us selling off all those players, I wonder why so many people give credit to OGS for doing that, it was probably the easiest thing any manager could do
Im not sure about that. It was obvious before the end of his first season that Darmian wasn’t going to make it at United, yet it took three years before Ole came along and got rid of him.

Of course if we fail to get any better having got rid of a lot of “deadwood” the whole exercise is pretty pointless.
 

Enigma_87

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Im not sure about that. It was obvious before the end of his first season that Darmian wasn’t going to make it at United, yet it took three years before Ole came along and got rid of him.

Of course if we fail to get any better having got rid of a lot of “deadwood” the whole exercise is pretty pointless.
I LvG first season I think we offloaded/released 18 players of something like that. We continued to do the same in his second season and also in the first season Jose stepped in we also offloaded quite a bit.

Wouldn't say offloading players is something special - not replacing them is worse.

The reason why we keep buying/offloading players is because we have appointed different managers with different styles.
 

romufc

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I'd like to think theres a manager out there that could be successful with our budget.
I am sure there is, whatever people say we do spend money when needed, just not in the right way.

The thing is we need a manager who will improve players, improve style of play and get us back to challenging.

Not many managers can do that. Currently, only Pep, Klopp and maybe Poch can IMO.
 

redIndianDevil

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Im not sure about that. It was obvious before the end of his first season that Darmian wasn’t going to make it at United, yet it took three years before Ole came along and got rid of him.

Of course if we fail to get any better having got rid of a lot of “deadwood” the whole exercise is pretty pointless.
Disagree. Darmian always had buyers in Italy but his move was always held up by us demanding a transfer fee. OGS had no role in that.
 

ArjenIsM3

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I LvG first season I think we offloaded/released 18 players of something like that. We continued to do the same in his second season and also in the first season Jose stepped in we also offloaded quite a bit.

Wouldn't say offloading players is something special - not replacing them is worse.

The reason why we keep buying/offloading players is because we have appointed different managers with different styles.
Not just because we have appointed different managers with different styles. The replacements we've brought in have been mostly crap too. At least that seems to have changed now that Ole's here, though it's still early days of course.
 

Denis79

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Probably the guy meant us selling off all those players, I wonder why so many people give credit to OGS for doing that, it was probably the easiest thing any manager could do
You're right. If there are no expectations, just selling players is no feat but if he manages to get results while doing this it's completely the opposite. We'll know end of May.
 

Okey

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I am sure there is, whatever people say we do spend money when needed, just not in the right way.

The thing is we need a manager who will improve players, improve style of play and get us back to challenging.

Not many managers can do that. Currently, only Pep, Klopp and maybe Poch can IMO.
There's a shed load of managers out there who have proven to improve players and style of play beyond the 3 you mentioned. Maybe they don't fit United's profile, and I can't guarantee they'll have us challenging but their body of work shows we'll be a better team tactically at least. Nuno, Hassenhuttl, Rose, Ten Hag, Brendan Rodgers, Nagelsman...definitely many more.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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There's a shed load of managers out there who have proven to improve players and style of play beyond the 3 you mentioned. Maybe they don't fit United's profile, and I can't guarantee they'll have us challenging but their body of work shows we'll be a better team tactically at least. Nuno, Hassenhuttl, Rose, Ten Hag, Brendan Rodgers, Nagelsman...definitely many more.

Definitely. There are many better managers out there than Solksjaer,, there is no doubt about it. Giving it the old "oh, stop moaning we don't have Pep/Klopp/Poch" is a joke - Brendan Rodgers is a better manager than OGS, he's proven that throughout the course of his career so far. And he is looking better at present with Leicester, in my opinion. I wouldn't really want Rodgers at OT, not saying that, but if you need a new car and you can't get the Ferrrari, there are other options on the table that aren't a Ford Fiesta.
 

Skills

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Definitely. There are many better managers out there than Solksjaer,, there is no doubt about it. Giving it the old "oh, stop moaning we don't have Pep/Klopp/Poch" is a joke - Brendan Rodgers is a better manager than OGS, he's proven that throughout the course of his career so far. And he is looking better at present with Leicester, in my opinion. I wouldn't really want Rodgers at OT, not saying that, but if you need a new car and you can't get the Ferrrari, there are other options on the table that aren't a Ford Fiesta.
That's harsh on a Fiesta.
 

romufc

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There's a shed load of managers out there who have proven to improve players and style of play beyond the 3 you mentioned. Maybe they don't fit United's profile, and I can't guarantee they'll have us challenging but their body of work shows we'll be a better team tactically at least. Nuno, Hassenhuttl, Rose, Ten Hag, Brendan Rodgers, Nagelsman...definitely many more.
Alot of those managers named have not achieved much in their career. Nuno is a defensive manager.
Hassenhuttl has improved which players?
Ten Hag got to Ajax where he had exciting prospects, lets judge him after this season?
Nagelsman again, lets judge him after this season.

These are all managers who have managed lesser teams and done well over last 1/2 years.

Rodgers was sacked by Liverpool for Klopp, and at Celtic he won the league which every manager does but not much noteworthy in the champions league?