Why is our fanbase so toxic towards its players?

[Le Red]

What does that have to do with my point?

I’m not entirely sure I agree with yours either. If the season ticket holders stop going to football matches then United lose money. That’s an economic certainty. And it’s those season ticket holders that make up the very supportive ‘fanbase’ I referred to, not some angry arsehole in China.

It has to do with your belief that a fanbase is constituted only by people who attend to matches. That is not the definition of fanbase, but a rather elitist and exclusive view of who what a true fan is.
Of course Man. United relies on selling tickets, but the match day attendance is much more important for the in-game support and demonstration of popularity than for the revenue it generates.
The angry arsehole in China is the one generating money for the club. If he gets angry to the point he doesn't want to support United anymore, be it by watching matches or buying merchandise, the club's finances are going to take a massive blow. It gets even worse when you think that the same angry arsehole is going to watch some other club's games and buy their merchandise. It might even be from a PL rival, mind.
So you'd better take into account how the angry arsehole in China feels, because if he stops buyng what we're selling, our money edge will be gone and we'll be left alone with our wonderful board to fight back this situation. What do you suppose is going to happen from there? Will the "very supportive fanbase" save us from the disgrace that will follow?

 

[BlueHaze]

I think I saw one reply in there that wasnt an utter disgrace.

Literally every tweet he makes is full of comments like that. I'd delete that account asap.

 

[Stadjer]

I think I saw one reply in there that wasnt an utter disgrace.

Someone(a lot of people) said that he should join Villa and someone else responded with "that is not nice...... to Villa"

It was an easy joke but it was atleast a bit funny.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Are we though?

I don't think we're extreme.

 

[Sandikan]

It's the internet fans.
The match goers know a bit better

waits for it...

 

[Kag]

It has to do with your belief that a fanbase is constituted only by people who attend to matches. That is not the definition of fanbase, but a rather elitist and exclusive view of who what a true fan is.
Of course Man. United relies on selling tickets, but the match day attendance is much more important for the in-game support and demonstration of popularity than for the revenue it generates.
The angry arsehole in China is the one generating money for the club. If he gets angry to the point he doesn't want to support United anymore, be it by watching matches or buying merchandise, the club's finances are going to take a massive blow. It gets even worse when you think that the same angry arsehole is going to watch some other club's games and buy their merchandise. It might even be from a PL rival, mind.
So you'd better take into account how the angry arsehole in China feels, because if he stops buyng what we're selling, our money edge will be gone and we'll be left alone with our wonderful board to fight back this situation. What do you suppose is going to happen from there? Will the "very supportive fanbase" save us from the disgrace that will follow?

“The true hub of support lies with those who attend the matches and lend their support in that physical sense.”

That’s part of what I initially posted. This is the inner fanbase. This is as true now as it was three hours ago when I posted it. The bloke from China is a consumer. He isn’t the sort of person I would use to dictate perceptions of the United fanbase. Him acting like some sort of halfwit on Twitter (wherever this person might be in the world) isn’t what I’d be using as a yardstick for supporter morality. If I were to assess the support the team is receiving then I’d be looking towards the regulars at Old Trafford and the support they give the players and managers. I’d be looking towards the loudest away section in England, too. That was my earlier point regarding the alleged toxicity of the fanbase; one you seem to have missed somewhat.

In essence, the people who are spending a fortune to support the team week in, week out shouldn’t be tarred with the same brush as Twitter idiots. This was always the nub of my point.

 

[MackRobinson]

It has to do with your belief that a fanbase is constituted only by people who attend to matches. That is not the definition of fanbase, but a rather elitist and exclusive view of who what a true fan is.
Of course Man. United relies on selling tickets, but the match day attendance is much more important for the in-game support and demonstration of popularity than for the revenue it generates. The angry arsehole in China is the one generating money for the club. If he gets angry to the point he doesn't want to support United anymore, be it by watching matches or buying merchandise, the club's finances are going to take a massive blow.

You are grossly misinformed. In 2018, matchday revenues were £110M. All retail and merchandising revenue was £102.9 million. Matchday revenue is VERY important for ANY sports franchise.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h...anchester-United-plc-2018-Fourth-Quarter-Full

Half of the PL's revenue from TV deals comes from the British audience. Domestic TV deals are ALWAYS more valuable that international deals.
http://www.espn.com/soccer/english-...e-record-tv-deal-will-affect-english-football

It gets even worse when you think that the same angry arsehole is going to watch some other club's games and buy their merchandise. It might even be from a PL rival, mind.
So you'd better take into account how the angry arsehole in China feels, because if he stops buyng what we're selling, our money edge will be gone and we'll be left alone with our wonderful board to fight back this situation. Do you suppose is going to happen from there? Will the "very supportive fanbase" save us from the disgrace that will follow?

Fans in China, the US, and other non-British countries will always be fair-weather fans for the most part. Most of them started supporting United b/c they were winning (glory hunters). Seeing as how the match going fans also consist of the British broadcasting audience the notion that random, fair-weather fan in East Asia is somehow more important or even level with match-going fans is absurd.

P.S. - I'm not a match going fan or British, but I've seen international fans really overstate the importance of the average casual overseas fan. I would wager they, on average, spend much less money on United (by probably a factor of 2 or 3) than the average match-going fan.

 

[RuudTom83]

Football today is nothing like the sport we grew up watching. Money has totally ruined my enjoyment and the squad is very easy to dislike...

Players that have won very little, but parade around demanding millions.

It leaves a bad taste and why should fans be loyal to them, when the players require millions just to turn up, and even more money to actually break into a sweat.

 

[Jezpeza]

I think theres a justice in it. Players like valencia and young i dont dislike they just are past it and not good enough anymore - i feel for them in a way, they were wingers and then pushed back into wing back positions as a stop gap then expected to be good there for years.i hate ones that are either poor or injured or lack effort. Rojo and sanchez are sicknotes and just not good enough. Darmian is poor. phil jones makes a lot of mistakes and has never really shown anything. Matic is poor. Mata seems to be going anyway. Apart from them dont have too many gripes - smalling and lingard are good squad players, just tend to start a lot because we have no better

 

[U99ted]

Funny fans call these young players/generation as spoiled entitled bunch when there is no better example of spoiled brats than the fans. They can abuse any player they want to and for any social media message but somehow players shouldn't respond just because they are players. Doesn't matter they are humans too, since they are players they should just take the abuse and move on.

The players shouldn't get abuse, as such. But if they fail to perform, they deserve criticism for their poor displays, including on the social media they use to interact with fans. If they want to respond directly, detailing why the criticism is unfair, then they can. If they can't, then at least respond to the critics on the pitch.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Also no other "top club" with title ambitions would put up with the dross we've been served over the last few years. Especially with the mismanagement of transfer funds and lack of proper scouting/direction. I actually feel like our fans have been too patient compared to other sets of fans.

Agreed. To some holier-than-thou posters, criticism is apparently "toxic".

 

[FFK Norway]

Winning the league will never happen with the likes of the players we have and seeing as how far we are behind with other teams. Surely you know this, so there is no point in discussing whether winning the league, the fans won't question anything.

If we did somehow win the league with this current group of players - it'll be because the points I had mentioned, players were more focused, right mentality, and more dedicated in actually playing football rather than what we witnessed.

I can agree to some extent fans never questions things when everything goes well - but apart from my main points, then what would be your reason why our group of players severely underperformed this season? Why did they levels dropped off so much under Mourinho? Only to pick up when OGS starter and then drop off so badly when he got appointed as manager.

If its not a mentality issue, I'd like to know what it is?

With Ole the form dip was because of the new wage policy Ole has set.

 

[el3mel]

Are you guys serious ?

The same players who have been finishing out of top 4 four seasons out of 6, let down the fans countless of times, get dominated by teams at the bottom of the league, while getting giga salary per week and not giving a feck about the club but we're expecting the fan base to treat them well ? Maybe if these players actually do their job these things won't happen.

The only toxic thing in the club is the players and board.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Are you guys serious ?

The same players who have been finishing out of top 4 four seasons out of 6, let down the fans countless of times, get dominated by teams at the bottom of the league, while getting giga salary per week and not giving a feck about the club but we're expecting the fan base to treat them well ? Maybe if these players actually do their job these things won't happen.

The only toxic thing in the club is the players and board.

Yeah I'd tend to agree.

I think our fanbase as a whole aren't nearly as demanding as it should be considering the club's stature and history.

Some of the performances and general work from the club this past season was unacceptable.

 

[Flytan]

Because they're multimillionaires who are clearly not trying/not good enough in general. Calling them shit or similar is expected. So what is their twitter is filled with replies calling them trash? As long as it isn't actual harassment or threatening them it shouldn't matter. All fans are like that at every club, especially when they suck.

I'm sorry that the JLingzzzzz clothing line isn't getting positive reviews.

 

[Ramshock]

Thread was over after the first reply.

You would think so.

 

[devilish]

No they arent. They are still trying, thats what they are paid to do, the best the can. The fact they arent as good as you or I would like doesnt enter into it. Jones and young were just given new contracts. Who gave those contracts? They didnt put a gun to anyones head and say give me money. Like I said, theres needs to go and theres deadwood.

How exactly did you come to that conclusion? Our team scores very low in terms of workrate as well. It simply does not run enough which is quite ironic considering its filled with donkeys (or work horses? I always confuse the two terms)

One of United's main problem is that we keep applauding players who lack the talent and the attitude to play for this club. There always seems to be an excuse round the corner to justify these tripe. No wonder why complacency has kicked in, starting from the top guys who would rather keep all their stash then invest constantly on a title winning squad and right to our deadwood who can basically do what they want knowing that there's always a 4+1 contract looming at the horizon

 

[Jackal]

because our fanbase is full of entitled spoiled cnuts?

It's because the fanbase really love the club. They come out every match-day to support the players, spend their hard-earned money, travel with the squad to all the places in the world and what do the players give in return? Nothing!

There's nothing wrong being a mediocre player but at least show some empathy to the fans. It's very typical of United players to be clowning on social media immediately after losing 3 games in a row. How do you expect the fans to feel? Some fans get their weekend completely ruined because of poor results and the players behave as if they don't care.

Would the fans be so toxic if the players are giving their all? The players also have to take a huge responsibility in the current mess at the club. It's like they aren't serious about their profession. The other day, Rashford tweeted he needs to find the willingness to play for Man Utd. If wearing the shirt alone doesn't bring the willingness to play then he should be playing for another club.

The fans cannot continue to coddle these prima donna players. If they play well, they would get praised to the high heavens. If they do not play well, they would get criticised in equal measure.

 

[stepic]

The large majority of our players deserve all the criticism they get.

 

[Irwin99]

The ones that go to the matches are among the most tolerant of any big club I’ve seen. As I’ve said before, Chelsea fans booed their players off the pitch at half time against Watford a few weeks back, Arsenal fans boo their players nearly every other week. Real Madrid fans boo players that have won them champions league finals and their top scorer of all time not too long ago.

United fans at OT are saints compared to most other huge clubs. For all the talk of entitlement and whinging in the fan base, it’s actually been a pretty tame acceptance for the failures In the post SAF era. There was more unrest in 09-10 season with the green and gold colours.

Also, when your club have one of the highest wage bills in Europe and you constantly finish near the bottom of the league for workrate you can see why some people feel aggrieved.

 

[devilish]

It's because the fanbase really love the club. They come out every match-day to support the players, spend their hard-earned money, travel with the squad to all the places in the world and what do the players give in return? Nothing!

There's nothing wrong being a mediocre player but at least show some empathy to the fans. It's very typical of United players to be clowning on social media immediately after losing 3 games in a row. How do you expect the fans to feel? Some fans get their weekend completely ruined because of poor results and the players behave as if they don't care.

Would the fans be so toxic if the players are giving their all? The players also have to take a huge responsibility in the current mess at the club. It's like they aren't serious about their profession. The other day, Rashford tweeted he needs to find the willingness to play for Man Utd. If wearing the shirt alone doesn't bring the willingness to play then he should be playing for another club.

The fans cannot continue to coddle these prima donna players. If they play well, they would get praised to the high heavens. If they do not play well, they would get criticised in equal measure.

Mediocre players shouldn't be playing at this level and on those salaries.

 

[tenpoless]

While the abuse can be too much sometimes, it's true that some of our players look like They aren't fit to be the first teamer for the club, if you compare our team now and the teams back then.

Still doesn't mean people should abuse them though. Criticism are okay. Fellaini isn't here anymore so They turn to the the rest of them.

 

[Steven-UK]

Mediocre players shouldn't be playing at this level and on those salaries.

This 100%.

Those who have watched through the decades have seen players fight for their lives to move this club to the position we were in, and now all we have is over-paid mediocrity. Show ponies on ridiculous salaries who would get nowhere near to a United side 10/20 years ago.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Low-key, subconscious racism.

We're living in incredibly divisive and manipulative political times - people don't realize all the subtle ways it affects us.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

How exactly did you come to that conclusion? Our team scores very low in terms of workrate as well. It simply does not run enough which is quite ironic considering its filled with donkeys (or work horses? I always confuse the two terms)

One of United's main problem is that we keep applauding players who lack the talent and the attitude to play for this club. There always seems to be an excuse round the corner to justify these tripe. No wonder why complacency has kicked in, starting from the top guys who would rather keep all their stash then invest constantly on a title winning squad and right to our deadwood who can basically do what they want knowing that there's always a 4+1 contract looming at the horizon

Is rooney or carrick still in our fecking team???? fecks sake, why is so hard to understand the concept that someone that used to be good for us deserves more than to be treated with utter contempt when they start to decline?

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Low-key, subconscious racism.

We're living in incredibly divisive and manipulative political times - people don't realize all the subtle ways it affects us.

I’ve long thought race plays some part in people not being able to identify with this team anymore.

Our best player is a black-muslim; some of the bile i’ve read since actively taking part in this forum seems a bit. . . extreme.

Like you’ve said i belief a lot of it is sub-conscious; our best [most public facing players] have few commonalities with the majority of our fanbase.

Race aside [something which is impossible] i think a lot of it has to do with the fact we just aren’t that good anymore, it’s easier to support a winner for most.

me personally, i’ve lost interest in football rather dramatically in recent terms but still get drawn in by united EVERY time - i don’t watch other teams like i used to & cant enjoy podcasts etc. as their just opinion pieces that offer little in terms of news.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

because our fanbase is full of entitled spoiled cnuts?

Yeah, how fecking dare we want players who actually give a shit about the club.

How fecking dare we expect to have top class players at the football club who can compete for honours. How fecking dare we! What entitled twats we are!

Fans like you are the reason the standards slipped so badly.

Fans like you are the reason we are a laughing stock.

Enjoy mediocrity.

Low-key, subconscious racism.

We're living in incredibly divisive and manipulative political times - people don't realize all the subtle ways it affects us.

What the feck does race have to do with it? If someone is shit, they are shit. Most of our players are shit. Shit comes in all colours. We have white shit in Phil Jones, brown shit in Jesse Lingard, and black shit in Romelu Lukaku. I don't give a flying feck what colour they are.

What a fecking weird thing to say. I guess it's 2019 though, where everything is racist.

Trust me, I'm white but if we signed Kylian Mbappe tomorrow, I'd be as happy as a pig in shit (to continue the shit theme)

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Yeah, how fecking dare we want players who actually give a shit about the club.

How fecking dare we expect to be successful given the amount we've spent and the history of the club.

Fans like you are the reason the standards slipped so badly.

Fans like you are the reason we are a laughing stock.

Enjoy mediocrity.

Young and jones give a shit about the club, yet get most of the stick. You can say something without being a dick about it, but our fans seem to only know that one way. Youngs been good servant for us in the past, yet we give him dogs abuse because hes in decline. We cant say "its time to move, buddy." without calling him a cnut a million times on twitter?

 

[Ramshock]

Yeah, how fecking dare we want players who actually give a shit about the club.

How fecking dare we expect to have top class players at the football club who can compete for honours. How fecking dare we! What entitled twats we are!

Fans like you are the reason the standards slipped so badly.

Fans like you are the reason we are a laughing stock.

Enjoy mediocrity.


What the feck does race have to do with it? If someone is shit, they are shit. Most of our players are shit. Shit comes in all colours. We have white shit in Phil Jones, brown shit in Jesse Lingard, and black shit in Romelu Lukaku. I don't give a flying feck what colour they are.

What a fecking weird thing to say. I guess it's 2019 though, where everything is racist.

Trust me, I'm white but if we signed Kylian Mbappe tomorrow, I'd be as happy as a pig in shit (to continue the shit theme)

the fecking state of this @Rado_N

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Because they're fecking cnuts. I've never seen anything like it.

 

[Ramshock]

It's because the fanbase really love the club. They come out every match-day to support the players, spend their hard-earned money, travel with the squad to all the places in the world and what do the players give in return? Nothing!

There's nothing wrong being a mediocre player but at least show some empathy to the fans. It's very typical of United players to be clowning on social media immediately after losing 3 games in a row. How do you expect the fans to feel? Some fans get their weekend completely ruined because of poor results and the players behave as if they don't care.

Would the fans be so toxic if the players are giving their all? The players also have to take a huge responsibility in the current mess at the club. It's like they aren't serious about their profession. The other day, Rashford tweeted he needs to find the willingness to play for Man Utd. If wearing the shirt alone doesn't bring the willingness to play then he should be playing for another club.

The fans cannot continue to coddle these prima donna players. If they play well, they would get praised to the high heavens. If they do not play well, they would get criticised in equal measure.

I think you are confusing the matchday goers with the millions of dickheads online who want everything changed every 5 fecking minutes

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Criticize their performance on the pitch. When people starting losing it over their outfits to a charity event is when it became ridiculous.

 

[devilish]

Is rooney or carrick still in our fecking team???? fecks sake, why is so hard to understand the concept that someone that used to be good for us deserves more than to be treated with utter contempt when they start to decline?

I am referring to this side not the past. Also once someone's legs are gone then he should retire. These players came to this club to make huge money and win trophies. That wouldn't have been possible if the club kept has beens around. When the time comes then they should make way for others as others had done to make space to them. One can't expect or even question the club's ambition when he is young only to expect the club to put that ambition on the side so it can focus on nannying them into retirement

I miss the time when legends would rather retire early (ex Cantona) or move to smaller clubs then risk tarnishing their reputation at the club. These days you have to drag them out kicking and screaming, which is quite ironic considering how well paid players are these days

 

[clarkydaz]

Young and jones give a shit about the club, yet get most of the stick. You can say something without being a dick about it, but our fans seem to only know that one way. Youngs been good servant for us in the past, yet we give him dogs abuse because hes in decline. We cant say "its time to move, buddy." without calling him a cnut a million times on twitter?

Jones is deemed a laughing stock of a footballer to the point where mocking him has lost all impact anymore. I must say its confusing, this casually labelling a fanbase mild racists isnt it. How about cleverley, there was a campaign for him not to play for england. Again, low key sub concious racism

 

[Reddy Rederson]

I am referring to this side not the past. Also once someone's legs are gone then he should retire. These players came to this club to make huge money and win trophies. That wouldn't have been possible if the club kept has beens around. When the time comes then they should make way for others as others had done to make space to them. One can't expect or even question the club's ambition when he is young only to expect the club to put that ambition on the side so it can focus on nannying them into retirement

I miss the time when legends would rather retire early (ex Cantona) or move to smaller clubs then risk tarnishing their reputation at the club. These days you have to drag them out kicking and screaming, which is quite ironic considering how well paid players are these days

Yes, but you can make the point without calling them cnuts. Young and jones might not be good enough, but they served the club and they did it as well as they could. They shouldn’t be getting their dicks sucked, but they shouldn’t getting abuse either. Say it’s time to go, by all means. But it like be nice if we could do it without resorting to hyperbole, name calling and rewriting history. We did it to Rooney, we did it to carrick, we did it to fletcher, we did it to others. Why can’t we just say it’s time to move on?

Just to be super crystal clear, I’m not advocating that the club give them cushy contracts forever. I’m saying that we as fans can voice the opinion that it’s time to go without being cnuts. The club giving them new contracts isn’t in them, that’s on the club. Call them cnuts.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Jones is deemed a laughing stock of a footballer to the point where mocking him has lost all impact anymore. I must say its confusing, this casually labelling a fanbase mild racists isnt it. How about cleverley, there was a campaign for him not to play for england. Again, low key sub concious racism

Jones is deemed a laughing stock by people too clueless about football to be taken seriously. He’s not good enough, that’s just a fact. But there’s a wold of difference in being a laughing stock, and not reading the game as well as he should. The guys a fecking warrior for us. You might not respect anything else, but you have to respect his hunger to do the best he can for us even if it’s not good enough.

“Time to move on”, sure. “feck off you useless cnut”, never. The term deadwood should only ever be used for players that don’t give 100%.

Not sure why you brought up the racism.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

“Giving a shit about the club” is nowhere good enough, you have to be really really good at football to play for Manchester United, that’s the standard, most of them are either one or the other, some are neither.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

“Giving a shit about the club” is nowhere good enough, you have to be really really good at football to play for Manchester United, that’s the standard, most of them are either one or the other, some are neither.

I never said it was good enough, I said we can voice our opinions without being fecking arseholes.

 

[roseguy64]

Jones is deemed a laughing stock by people too clueless about football to be taken seriously. He’s not good enough, that’s just a fact. But there’s a wold of difference in being a laughing stock, and not reading the game as well as he should. The guys a fecking warrior for us. You might not respect anything else, but you have to respect his hunger to do the best he can for us even if it’s not good enough.

“Time to move on”, sure. “feck off you useless cnut”, never. The term deadwood should only ever be used for players that don’t give 100%.

Not sure why you brought up the racism.

This has been my problem. I'm no puritan but when every comment is calling another player some form of insult it gets tiring to read.

People are right to be upset about the results over the last few years. I am too. But being awful people in response seems like the worst response to it.

 

[The Boy]

It's not JUST the fact that we are crap, it's the WAY we are crap.

I don't care how bad (or not) some of us on this forum believe this bunch of players are - there is absolutely no way that players good enough to beat PSG, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham should be bad enough to put in the insipid performances we saw against the likes of Wolves, Huddersfield, West Ham and Cardiff.

It boils down to not being able to motivate themselves, being spoiled and entitled enough to down tools for one of the best managers the modern game has seen and then tweeting crap constantly about how they are 'sorry'. The statistics back up the feeling that this team just does not work hard enough on the pitch, however, I don't need statistics to tell me that the performances directly after the appointment of Ole were a world apart in terms of effort from what we saw at the beginning of the season and what we saw at the end.

Losing is acceptable in professional sport ONLY if the players have given everything. Does anyone, even the staunchest advocate of these players, believe that they all gave everything every single minute of every single game?

Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser. Watch the footage after we lose. One mournful look at the camera before the handshakes and hugs start with the opposition....if you don't understand WHY that's an issue for some of us then I don't think you understand what it takes to win

Just while I am on a roll.....I play football myself. Not to a fantastic standard but a decent one nonetheless. If you've ever played team sport to a reasonable level, you know which of your teammates will disappear when they get caught by a tackle, you know who will down tools when it's wet and cold, you know who will stand there throwing their arms around and not running back when you're 0-3 down, you know which players go into games without preparing and leave the pitch having not given it their best but still content that they did 'OK'. I'll tell you what I see at United, about 23 of them, give or take

Good post, I think players are treated badly on this forum and even worse on other social media platforms. So many posts are just bile and hate with no reason. But the above is well reasoned and thought out, rather than the increasingly normal "get rid of the deadwood, bunch of useless cnuts."

For what it's worth, this isn't just an issue for Utd, it's been a growing issue since the PL was formed, the more money that flows into the game, the more players earn etc, the more distant they become from the fans. So much has changed in the last 3 decades, the press is more vitriolic now, pundits are more critical and controversial, fans and clubs see players more as commodities than people so it is easier to abuse and forget that their is a human being on the other end. Add that to the anonymity social media offers people it means people can be far "braver" than ever before in talking directly to players as there will never be any consequence, only a very special type of cnut would have walked upto players in the street and abused them, now on social media anyone can do it.

Clickbait and controversy are the order of the day right now, so its hardly surprising players get a rough time. Feel free to criticize, god knows they deserve it, but often the aimless hatred is way over the top.