Why is our fanbase so toxic towards its players?

fergiesarmy1 said:
You talked about running stats, effort and stamina to which I replied about fitness? How’s is that obtuse - take a breather
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Well it's a red herring since my post was specifically about effort not fitness and you are obtuse by pretending not to know I was talking about effort. Let's try a shorter recap since you don't even bother to read posts.

1) Poor fitness/stamina doesn't equate to not trying or lack of effort
2) There isn't a correlation between running stats and results

Simple stuff really.
 
Alabaster Codify7 said:
It has absoluely nothing to do with racism. I would bend over backwards for a team full of Kanye,Koulibaly etc. Backward. Its a lazy excuse to defend absolute shitehouse mediocre crap. Pogba aside. He's a different case in that hes clearly not mediocre shite. But turns in such performances regularly.
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No thanks, we have enough instagram primadonnas without him and his wife being near the club.
 
Okey said:
On the toxicity issue, but extending it to former players... It's worth noting Petr Cech is off to become Chelsea's technical director. With the famed zero experience. A path well trodden by many who have ended up becoming legends in those roles. Including the sainted Pep. Yet the mention of bringing our ex players here in similar roles raised so much opprobrium. I think there's just a bit too much negativity towards our own here sometimes. By all means point out obvious problems but let the mindset be more positive than negative. They may be so and sos like many say, but they're our so and sos...
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If you can count how many ex players we had on our backroom staff, add phelan into the equation. What have they brought so far?
 
Denis79 said:
Explains why one focused on a clothing line and the other filmed a movie. To get their minds off things.
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This is such a non argument, I do loads of stuff outside work, it doesn't mean I am not focussed on what I do and when I have bad day at work and stuff isn't as good as it should be, it's generally nothing to do with my interests outside work.

Criticize them for playing poorly, absolutely fair, they probably deserve it, but to say they're only interested in their clothing lines etc or (I know you haven't in this post but many have) they spend too much time of social media/hairstyles whatever is complete rubbish and just an easy stick to hit them with.
 
Many fans tend to assess any individual player based on the "United quality" standard, which is both vague and lofty: constant comparisons are drawn to players like Rio, Vidic, Keane, Scholes, RVN and Ronaldo - while the quality of past squad players is exaggerated. I've said this many times (I know): to judge an average (in the context of a squad) player in a dysfunctional team is not easy. You can conclude that he isn't "United quality" if that term actually means "plausible starter for a CL contender" - but the conclusion is worthless. We didn't have such players in every squad role back when we were a functional top team (and a CL contender) either.

As for "toxicity", it mainly comes from years of underwhelming football. Our fans don't trust anyone these days - not the players, not the manager, not the board and definitely not the owners. It takes very little for a vocal segment to turn on anyone. That won't change until we either get back on track - or become permanently mediocre to a degree which means most will have adjusted to humbler expectations.
 
Just take a look at AFTV and then come back here. When the team doesn't show the effort, the fans will obviously turn on them.
 
AgentP said:
Just take a look at AFTV and then come back here. When the team doesn't show the effort, the fans will obviously turn on them.
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It's really difficult to for a lot of posters here to digest this simple fact. You just have to support these fecking players regardless of their souless, lacklustre, spineless performances otherwise you ain't a top red.
 
There's no mental strength in this team, no real leaders (Apart from maybe Linderloff). I think the fans are genuinely just fed up also with the overpaid media whores on the squad. What we'd give for some leaders.
 
Kaglish10 said:
They talked about Rashford only. Why include Lingard?
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Because Lingard runs more than almost everyone else in the squad, obviously. Read the whole post. Or just, you know, watch our matches.

I didn’t find any quotes about his attitude in training but I didn’t look very hard and I’ve certainly never heard anything negative. Have you?
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
It's really difficult to for a lot of posters here to digest this simple fact. You just have to support these fecking players regardless of their souless, lacklustre, spineless performances otherwise you ain't a top red.
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And this has to be one of the most idiotic posts in the thread. “You have to support the players”. What does that even mean? FFS.

There’s a bunch of players in that squad I hope never wear the shirt again. I couldn’t give less of a shit what opinion you hold about any of them. What I’m objecting to is vitriolic, personal abuse, aimed at homegrown players whose greatest sin seems to be getting continually picked for the team despite being (arguably) not good enough (not consistent enough, definitely)

Oh and for doing things which have nothing to do with their performance on the pitch but irritate the hell out of a petty/old/racist/judgemental/jealous (delete as appropriate) segment of our fan-base.
 
MackRobinson said:
Well it's a red herring since my post was specifically about effort not fitness and you are obtuse by pretending not to know I was talking about effort. Let's try a shorter recap since you don't even bother to read posts.

1) Poor fitness/stamina doesn't equate to not trying or lack of effort
2) There isn't a correlation between running stats and results

Simple stuff really.
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Ok
 
That's one way of looking at it but I think a big reason is the markets destroyed, the games corrupt, we have owners who can't compete and players are being shown to be greedy and in some cases prats. I think it's a sign of the times. The players don't help themselves. When we went on that run? We were brave and though there was luck at times, you often get that when your brave. To end the season the way we did, was disgusting from the players. They should all read Sir Alexs book - because if they did, then many would realize they're frauds. I'm not interested in social media. Not interested in their nicknames or what they like to do in their spare time. Surely, practice with a ball as many don't seem to be able to control a ball let alone kick one. Frustration? Absolutely but also going back to the owners, until they sell the club there is no end in sight. No one really knows what we're going to do this summer. So there's much frustration
 
Part of the blame has to lie not only with the club but with football in general. We stopped being seen as supporters a long time ago, clubs decided they are businesses first, who just happen to operate in the sporting arena and we are customers to be milked of every last penny to line the pockets of owners CEOs, scumbag agents and overgrown manchildren. Well that's fine, but if that's the way it is players and clubs lose the right to expect unwavering support and blind loyalty, as customers what other businesses would you frequent repeatedly despite a sub standard product and utterly inept management from the very top level down? Unlike other brands we all have huge ties and commitments to the club's we support and won't leave to support someone else, that anger and frustration has to come out somewhere, and as long as it stops short of individuals being abused about things that aren't related to their football then why is it a problem?
 
Sky1981 said:
If you can count how many ex players we had on our backroom staff, add phelan into the equation. What have they brought so far?
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Not a unique situation to United. These things are always 50-50. The point is about being able to criticise constructively without toxicity. Much like would happen in a happy family...
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because Lingard runs more than almost everyone else in the squad, obviously. Read the whole post. Or just, you know, watch our matches.

I didn’t find any quotes about his attitude in training but I didn’t look very hard and I’ve certainly never heard anything negative. Have you?
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You talk about "This is exactly the sort of attitude we hear about Rashford and Lingard when it comes to training", then only give Rashford quote, then act high and mighty when people question you? How does that work?

How does "run more than almost everyone else in the squad" mean he's hard working in training? Ronaldo train fecking hard but do you see him "run more than almost everyone else"? Exactly how does that work?

What did he train for? Improving his skill? Playing better? If he works that hard in training he must improve something or show something new in his game right?

I watched our match, as well as a lot of other people. And what we saw is an attacked that score 1 goal and 0 assists in last 1000 minutes, or whatever goals and assists in his whole career. We also saw a player that improves on nothing for the last few years, or we can even say he's declined since he was a lot better last year. Where can I find any evidence that he's working hard in training based on "watching our match"?

Also, how does farming distance covered mean anything? Anyone can run up and down the field if they avoid the responsibility of actually making thing happen. If I go to my work and type 100000000 words per day or write 20000 nonsense code that didn't run, does that mean I work hard? Park Ji Sung, Fletcher runs a lot, they actually break down play, get into challenge being a nuisance to the opponents. What did Lingard run for?

Pogue Mahone said:
And this has to be one of the most idiotic posts in the thread. “You have to support the players”. What does that even mean? FFS.

There’s a bunch of players in that squad I hope never wear the shirt again. I couldn’t give less of a shit what opinion you hold about any of them. What I’m objecting to is vitriolic, personal abuse, aimed at homegrown players whose greatest sin seems to be getting continually picked for the team despite being (arguably) not good enough (not consistent enough, definitely)

Oh and for doing things which have nothing to do with their performance on the pitch but irritate the hell out of a petty/old/racist/judgemental/jealous (delete as appropriate) segment of our fan-base.
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Nothing to do with their performance on the pitch? Did Beckham receive the same amount of hate for his celebrity life? No, because he's a great player that actually work hard in training to improve his skill, and we all can see the result. You replied on an excellent post about "HOW you behave when your struggling." but then missed every single point in that post instead you provide a 2 quote about Rashford hard working in training while including Lingard in it? How exactly does that work?

I am not jealous of Lingard. I am not old. My work is in evaluating/calculating the sentimental value of people's post in social media so I have no problem with social media myself. Why can't I get annoyed with his performance and his behaviors without being labeled with some of your "title"? It's not like his performance is great or his behavior is amazing. You can think that Pogba didn't show enough effort despite being our most productive players (Again, running around didn't mean hard working), but I can't do the same with a totally non-productive player? For a people that look down on "judgemental", you seem quite judgemental yourself.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because Lingard runs more than almost everyone else in the squad, obviously. Read the whole post. Or just, you know, watch our matches.

I didn’t find any quotes about his attitude in training but I didn’t look very hard and I’ve certainly never heard anything negative. Have you?
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He is inconsistent, I saw none of those runs which were any effective against Barcelona or city. Against city sterling got the ball ran nearly the entire length of the pitch with the ball and made a assist pass and lingard chased shadows entire time and couldn't stop him.

Totally a player who will run against mediocre sides with some effect but is absolutely clueless when facing big sides.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Part of the blame has to lie not only with the club but with football in general. We stopped being seen as supporters a long time ago, clubs decided they are businesses first, who just happen to operate in the sporting arena and we are customers to be milked of every last penny to line the pockets of owners CEOs, scumbag agents and overgrown manchildren. Well that's fine, but if that's the way it is players and clubs lose the right to expect unwavering support and blind loyalty, as customers what other businesses would you frequent repeatedly despite a sub standard product and utterly inept management from the very top level down? Unlike other brands we all have huge ties and commitments to the club's we support and won't leave to support someone else, that anger and frustration has to come out somewhere, and as long as it stops short of individuals being abused about things that aren't related to their football then why is it a problem?
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Well spoken, if clubs treat us like customers we have every right to criticise the product and under performing players.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Part of the blame has to lie not only with the club but with football in general. We stopped being seen as supporters a long time ago, clubs decided they are businesses first, who just happen to operate in the sporting arena and we are customers to be milked of every last penny to line the pockets of owners CEOs, scumbag agents and overgrown manchildren. Well that's fine, but if that's the way it is players and clubs lose the right to expect unwavering support and blind loyalty, as customers what other businesses would you frequent repeatedly despite a sub standard product and utterly inept management from the very top level down? Unlike other brands we all have huge ties and commitments to the club's we support and won't leave to support someone else, that anger and frustration has to come out somewhere, and as long as it stops short of individuals being abused about things that aren't related to their football then why is it a problem?
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If it did we wouldn't have this thread. Way to miss the point.
 
redcafe_reader said:
Nothing to do with their performance on the pitch? Did Beckham receive the same amount of hate for his celebrity life? No, because he's a great player that actually work hard in training to improve his skill, and we all can see the result. You replied on an excellent post about "HOW you behave when your struggling." but then missed every single point in that post instead you provide a 2 quote about Rashford hard working in training while including Lingard in it? How exactly does that work?

I am not jealous of Lingard. I am not old. My work is in evaluating/calculating the sentimental value of people's post in social media so I have no problem with social media myself. Why can't I get annoyed with his performance and his behaviors without being labeled with some of your "title"? It's not like his performance is great or his behavior is amazing. You can think that Pogba didn't show enough effort despite being our most productive players (Again, running around didn't mean hard working), but I can't do the same with a totally non-productive player? For a people that look down on "judgemental", you seem quite judgemental yourself.
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The main gist of the first paragraph seems to be that the only thing stopping Lingard from being as good as Beckham was not working as hard as him in training. WTF?!

The rest of the post - amazingly - goes downhill from there.

This thread is a train wreck. I’m out.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The main gist of the first paragraph seems to be that the only thing stopping Lingard from being as good as Beckham was not working as hard as him in training. WTF?!

The rest of the post - amazingly - goes downhill from there.

This thread is a train wreck. I’m out.
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You - amazingly - missed the point, again. Point: You said: nothing to do with their performance on the pitch - I said: Wrong, it related to their performance on the pitch.

I asked you several questions but to be honest, I don't expect an answer.
 
Inappropriate Behavior
ivaldo said:
I did. Because the whole premise of your post is entirely wrong, as are your result are your following questions. You seem to believe I was defending Lingards performances, which I wasn't. If you had spent 5 minutes reading you wouldn't have had to write out an entire post about something that wasn't even being discussed. Top stuff.

This is thread about posters being toxic towards our players. It might be a bit sad, reading on a forum and all, but the title is pretty conclusive. If you want to discuss Lingards performances, then hop over to his performance thread.

If you think using words with more than two syllables is talking in jargon then I can't help you. Do yourself a favour and stay away from the general forum, some of the words used in there will blow your mind!
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Is it completely wrong is it, if you say so. You want to defend all his cringe worthy social media activities knock yourself out, the bloke makes my skin crawl with all his sh*t, the boxing video, the video on the bus, he just makes the club look like a fecking laughing stock. We put up with all this sh*t with Pogba as he sometimes turns it on on the pitch, with Lingard he is just constantly dogshit, offers absolutely zero and just makes the club look idiotic with his social media activity.

If that is off topic, then as you can probably tell, couldn't give a feck haha aawwww looking after my interests re the big words and general forum, thanks princess.

Go give Jesse a follow, sure he has something posted that will be right up your street.
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
Is it completely wrong is it, if you say so. You want to defend all his cringe worthy social media activities knock yourself out, the bloke makes my skin crawl with all his sh*t, the boxing video, the video on the bus, he just makes the club look like a fecking laughing stock. We put up with all this sh*t with Pogba as he sometimes turns it on on the pitch, with Lingard he is just constantly dogshit, offers absolutely zero and just makes the club look idiotic with his social media activity.

If that is off topic, then as you can probably tell, couldn't give a feck haha aawwww looking after my interests re the big words and general forum, thanks princess.

Go give Jesse a follow, sure he has something posted that will be right up your street.
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:lol:

Yeah, it is. I’ve quite literally demonstrated that, and you’ve attested to not reading mine or others previous posts, because that would be ‘sad.’

I can’t help your illiteracy, mate, that’s all on you. I mentioned childish mindsets earlier, and if there ever was a post to epitomise that, this is it. It’s like reading a YouTube comment. Run along now.
 
Okey said:
Not a unique situation to United. These things are always 50-50. The point is about being able to criticise constructively without toxicity. Much like would happen in a happy family...
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Toxicity comes when players have no inspiration to learn from their mistakes and are passionate about the game and the club.
 
If the results are bad manager and players will get criticized for it and I think there is nothing wrong with this. What irritates me is the way this is done sometimes. Just have a look at twitter and the insults being hurled at players, what the feck? On here it's only slightly better because of moderation but yeah the tone in which our players and manager get slated is sometimes beyond irritating.
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
Is it completely wrong is it, if you say so. You want to defend all his cringe worthy social media activities knock yourself out, the bloke makes my skin crawl with all his sh*t, the boxing video, the video on the bus, he just makes the club look like a fecking laughing stock. We put up with all this sh*t with Pogba as he sometimes turns it on on the pitch, with Lingard he is just constantly dogshit, offers absolutely zero and just makes the club look idiotic with his social media activity.

If that is off topic, then as you can probably tell, couldn't give a feck haha aawwww looking after my interests re the big words and general forum, thanks princess.

Go give Jesse a follow, sure he has something posted that will be right up your street.
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Top meltdown this
 
The Boy said:
This is such a non argument, I do loads of stuff outside work, it doesn't mean I am not focussed on what I do and when I have bad day at work and stuff isn't as good as it should be, it's generally nothing to do with my interests outside work.

Criticize them for playing poorly, absolutely fair, they probably deserve it, but to say they're only interested in their clothing lines etc or (I know you haven't in this post but many have) they spend too much time of social media/hairstyles whatever is complete rubbish and just an easy stick to hit them with.
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If we had a good season, this wouldn't even be discussed. Problem is we had a terrible one and actions / activities like these open them up for questioning, even abuse.

They know they are public people and football players in a big club where fans expect a lot. When they use their fame as football players to line their pockets even deeper, it will anger some fans and make them question their dedication. Especially after a season like this. Not saying I agree with the abuse they are recieving, I don't. But they do deserve criticism for it.
 
The Boy said:
This is such a non argument, I do loads of stuff outside work, it doesn't mean I am not focussed on what I do and when I have bad day at work and stuff isn't as good as it should be, it's generally nothing to do with my interests outside work.

Criticize them for playing poorly, absolutely fair, they probably deserve it, but to say they're only interested in their clothing lines etc or (I know you haven't in this post but many have) they spend too much time of social media/hairstyles whatever is complete rubbish and just an easy stick to hit them with.
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What you do in leisure time is up to you. But what you do in leisure time when the company isnt doing well irks people. Especially if you're being paid top dollar. Nobody would care if you're a clerk at 7 eleven, but when you're paid millions to kick a ball you can be sure fingers will be pointed if you csnt perform.

The crux of the matter is they dont perform. If they perform they can partime as a rap singer for all i care.

Is it fair? Probably not..but getting paid millions at such a young age isnt fair to avergae joe as well. With money and fame comes scrutiny. If they get offended, good. Start playing better
 
Being footballer is being a celebrity. This involves a lot with social media, players need to consider what they have to do outside their football especially the media are going to chase you or judge you. It shouldn’t be compared to a job in company as a sales, businessman or engineer and etc.
 
Denis79 said:
If we had a good season, this wouldn't even be discussed. Problem is we had a terrible one and actions / activities like these open them up for questioning, even abuse.

They know they are public people and football players in a big club where fans expect a lot. When they use their fame as football players to line their pockets even deeper, it will anger some fans and make them question their dedication. Especially after a season like this. Not saying I agree with the abuse they are recieving, I don't. But they do deserve criticism for it.
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Sky1981 said:
What you do in leisure time is up to you. But what you do in leisure time when the company isnt doing well irks people. Especially if you're being paid top dollar. Nobody would care if you're a clerk at 7 eleven, but when you're paid millions to kick a ball you can be sure fingers will be pointed if you csnt perform.

The crux of the matter is they dont perform. If they perform they can partime as a rap singer for all i care.

Is it fair? Probably not..but getting paid millions at such a young age isnt fair to avergae joe as well. With money and fame comes scrutiny. If they get offended, good. Start playing better
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It’s perfectly fair to criticise them for what they do on the pitch, but the level of abuse they get for anything is frankly disgusting. just loom at the replies they get on social media, and some of posts here - it’s just not right to treat another person like that regardless of what they earn. This thread is not about saying you can’t criticise, I’ve said before their performances deserve it, the thread is about the toxic hatred they get for anything they do and no one deserves that.
 
StrettyEnder07 said:
Is it completely wrong is it, if you say so. You want to defend all his cringe worthy social media activities knock yourself out, the bloke makes my skin crawl with all his sh*t, the boxing video, the video on the bus, he just makes the club look like a fecking laughing stock. We put up with all this sh*t with Pogba as he sometimes turns it on on the pitch, with Lingard he is just constantly dogshit, offers absolutely zero and just makes the club look idiotic with his social media activity.

If that is off topic, then as you can probably tell, couldn't give a feck haha aawwww looking after my interests re the big words and general forum, thanks princess.

Go give Jesse a follow, sure he has something posted that will be right up your street.
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Has to be nominated for meltdown of the year.

I can understand you've lost your patience with Lingard but how can it get you this upset man? :eek:
 
Sky1981 said:
What you do in leisure time is up to you. But what you do in leisure time when the company isnt doing well irks people. Especially if you're being paid top dollar. Nobody would care if you're a clerk at 7 eleven, but when you're paid millions to kick a ball you can be sure fingers will be pointed if you csnt perform.

The crux of the matter is they dont perform. If they perform they can partime as a rap singer for all i care.

Is it fair? Probably not..but getting paid millions at such a young age isnt fair to avergae joe as well. With money and fame comes scrutiny. If they get offended, good. Start playing better
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That's my take on it too. I wouldn't care if they were out there wearing Borat mankini's as long as they were producing the goods on the pitch.

But we've just finished 6th. Manchester United players giving it large to critics about how they have 'made it' as professional footballers off the back of the most embarrassing season I've ever witnessed since I was born. How far have we fallen, if that is anything to shout about. They must be really dumb.

All that does is show weakness and add more evidence to support that this team really are so far up their own backsides. I struggle to care one bit about them. They seem a detestable bunch.

I will have a party in the street when Lingard is sent back to the Championship. Coming 27 with his stats is hilarious.
 
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The Boy said:
It’s perfectly fair to criticise them for what they do on the pitch, but the level of abuse they get for anything is frankly disgusting. just loom at the replies they get on social media, and some of posts here - it’s just not right to treat another person like that regardless of what they earn. This thread is not about saying you can’t criticise, I’ve said before their performances deserve it, the thread is about the toxic hatred they get for anything they do and no one deserves that.
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I completely agree with you about the abuse, it's unacceptable and I wrote that in my previous post but thediscussion was about them getting criticism not abuse. You don't agree they should be questioned for their off pitch activities, while I do, when the season has gone as it has.
 
Wonder if anyone will dig out Axel Tuanzebe for what he’s wearing in his latest post.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
And this has to be one of the most idiotic posts in the thread. “You have to support the players”. What does that even mean? FFS.

There’s a bunch of players in that squad I hope never wear the shirt again. I couldn’t give less of a shit what opinion you hold about any of them. What I’m objecting to is vitriolic, personal abuse, aimed at homegrown players whose greatest sin seems to be getting continually picked for the team despite being (arguably) not good enough (not consistent enough, definitely)

Oh and for doing things which have nothing to do with their performance on the pitch but irritate the hell out of a petty/old/racist/judgemental/jealous (delete as appropriate) segment of our fan-base.
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I was not making that comment. I was against such comments. Framed it wrongly. Some people think that they are top reds just because they stand by these players even though most of them deserve to be thrown out of the club.
 
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