Cech had prime Mourinho, one of the GOAT bus drivers in history.
Will De Gea reach all time clean sheet record?
- Thread starter ManUnitedCanuck
- Start date
Because a keeper at this level is rated more than just shot stopping.
De Gea is a distant number 3 in our all time keepers. He’s cost us top 4 and key games way too many times but he has also won us games and salvaged our season before
The parts you bolded were certainly no attempt to exhaust their qualities, they were merely examples of strengths and weaknesses particular to each keeper.
Schmeichel is my favorite keeper ever, both for Denmark and United, but I question wether your memory of him is idealized over time, and your memory of De Gea clouded by the last few years. 2014-18 De Gea was like a clockwork getting to shots that Schmeichel would fairly often let pass.it is the all-round-package that tips it for Schmeichel with me. In 2017, I’d have said it was almost impossible to separate them. De Gea was in those years clearly better in terms of general shot stopping, foot work, positioning, saves from acute angles, consistency and error proneness than Schmikes. I think this was uncontroversial back then.
On the other hand, Schmeichel IMO was a big part of revolutionizng goalkeeping with his proactiveness in coming off the line, both for crosses and 1-on-1’s, using feet in close range saves, participating in coiculation, distribution by hand and foot, leading the defence and charismatic presence for a keeper. He was like a brilliant Tony Schumacher, and Manuel Neuer was built on his school (and developped it further). He was certainly not without weaknesses, though. His reflexes was as good as prime De Gea’s, but his technique much less refined.
THE reason?
I guess
Parker - Pallister - Stam - Irwin
vs
Neville - Ferdinand - Vidic - Evra
vs
Darmian - Smalling - Jones - old Young
or
Wan Bissaka - Lindelöf - Maguire - young Shaw
also contains some reasons.
of course, Ferguson had nothing to do with it either, it’s just down to those GK’s. (Except we won the league with De Gea as well under Ferguson).
I'm not really sure how this is measurable. Yes, we know Peter Schmeichel liked to shout a lot, but how well that was received and what difference it made is equally difficult to ascertain. I've seen plenty of shit keepers who like to shout too. For me, it's hard not to believe that captain Steve Bruce wasn't playing the key part in organising that back four, not that I think Denis Irwin, Neville or Pallister needed a great deal of shepherding. I don't think Jaap Stam and Ronny Johnson required much assistance either, though Schmeichel was past his peak at that point and probably more grateful for their presence.
As for Van der Sar, he certainly wasn't as animated as Schmeichel, but I think we'd all agree he was a calming presence, but again, he was probably sitting behind the best back four United has ever had in what was probably our greatest ever side. Perhaps there was a less obvious way in which Van der Sar commanded his area, possibly something that comes with experience, maybe we'll find out in three years when David de Gea reaches the age Edwin was when we signed him.
I'm not sure which games you think David de Gea 'wouldn't have survived', but, yes, he was definitely vulnerable to being bullied as an 18-year-old, but that was a long time ago. For comparison, at the same age Schmeichel was only just breaking into Gladsaxe-Hero's first team and Van der Sar was yet to leave VV Noordwijk. While de Gea will never be the physical presence Schmeichel was, it's not been an issue for a long time. There might be the very odd occasion he looks vulnerable at a cross, but I also remember Van der Sar hobbling off against Liverpool because he didn't really fancy it.
Comparisons are daft I suppose, but I've not read anything compelling to suggest that de Gea wouldn't have been as great, if not better, playing in those brilliant United sides with better players.
Last edited:
.
DDG has always been capable of pulling of crazy reflex saves, he's excellent at it. It's his all round game that lets him down, always has, even during those seasons he was making save after save, he was still shying away from his other duties. He's never been able to command his area and he pussies out of any sort of physical contact, especially on 1v1s. He even resisted Frans Hoeks attempts to modernise his approach and be more proactive.
Schmeichel when he came in was criticised for not being more commanding under high balls, he got very little protection, he worked on that and rectified it. DDG never has, Ferguson even commented on it when he came in and those same comments were made. Yet here we are 10 years later still saying the same things.
On technique. I'm not sure what you mean there. Schmeichel was excellent at holding onto the ball and he very rarely batted the ball back into the danger zone, something DDG does a lot.
that sort of thing never worries me. and it wasn't direct (he did think he' was done at the top before he actually was. could easily have had a season or more with us)
so you think DDG is? or you think Peter S wasn't?
i don’t know why you write to me at length about Schmeichel being better all round and better at commanding the box, as I wrote so myself. Is it to say you agree?
Regarding technique, that’s a fair question. To me, Schmikes grip for shots was good, but De Gea’s even better in his heyday. De Gea for me also was more consistent in positioning of body to get ball out of dangerous areas (whereas Schmeichel would sometimes give a rebound that he quashed himself getting forward quickly), and DDG’s footwark to get close to shots was and is far superior. I think people tend to forget that De Gea improved mightily in his work with crosses after the first years, using variations of fisting, handling or holding depending on the situation. Hos body strength has never allowed him to play Schmeichel did anyway, orso he’d probably lose much of the quickness that is his biggest pre.
To repeat myself, Schmeichel is for me the best keeper we ever had, and one of the best I saw, relative to his era. I’m not debating who’s best. I’mdebating the tendencies atm to idealize Schmeichel and Van de Sar nostalgically while at the same time forgetting De Gea’s best level filtered through the frustration of the last few years.
You said De Gea was never close to the best in the world. When for years he was well thought of as exactly in that conversation.
That's pretty mad from Cech. De Gea is currently 5th -- I think it's pretty likely he ends up 2nd all time, ahead of David James who ended on 169.
It's simple, really. Schmeichel and VDS never made me feel uneasy. No matter the situation I felt comfortable knowing that they were between the sticks. I feel the exact opposite when De Gea is playing. There is always a blunder lurking in the not so distant future.
Also, I don't completely buy the "they had better defenders in front of them" - argument. Yes, maybe they did. But, both Schmeichel and VDS organised and controlled their defenders in a way that De gea never has. Peter and VDS made their defenders better. De Gea never did.
Also, I don't completely buy the "they had better defenders in front of them" - argument. Yes, maybe they did. But, both Schmeichel and VDS organised and controlled their defenders in a way that De gea never has. Peter and VDS made their defenders better. De Gea never did.
I'd back De Gea to break Cech's record if circumstances are right at United over next 3-4 years (and if he can play at current level). But it seems unlikely atm.
I don’t think Cech’s record will be broken in a next decade or so. As someone already said here, he was in a GOAT defensive team in different times
As if he had the opportunities to leave and chose to stay put
He wanted to join Real Madrid in 2015 and the deal was literally minutes away from getting over the line.
Since then, we've given him ridiculous contracts that were unwarranted for the most part.
I rest my case.
Just knocked 20% off his own contract renewal 
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
He made two away to Bayern in the group stages in 99.
Because one mistake deletes all the good games before, if only real world worked like that.Just knocked 20% off his own contract renewal
Aye, absolute legend and an all time great he was, but people like to hark back like he never made a mistake.
If the Caf existed back then I’m sure there’d be idiots wanting him sold at times.
Why do you guys keep defending De Gea? He makes this kind of error many times every season. No goalkeeper is flawless. Doesn't matter how good you are if you fumble or fall asleep many times every season.
Yep, my first few years here was people giving out about a MF of Scholes and Carrick.
He made a shite mistake. Get over it
I remember days like those!
Exactly
As great as he was I remember Schmeichel making loads of silly mistakes. Hate this revisionist knee jerk nonsense. That's assuming he even watched him play.
No goalkeeper is flawless, you said it yourself. There is an argument about him with the ball at his feet, but that aside the good vastly outweighs the bad.
You answered your own question.
He seems at his worst against Everton.
It's so easy to point at one mistake as evidence he's not good enough. He's been brilliant this season, lots of brilliant saves and very few mistakes post -Brentford. Once this becomes a regular occurrence we can talk about it. For now it's a kind of error he has hardly ever made before.
Can't wait to hear Keane at half time, he hates him best of times
If you're looking to criticise De Gea then you're better off focusing on claiming, sweeping and passing issues that hurt us chronically over the course of a season rather than a random individual error.
What I'd give for someone like Van de Sar again. Someone more stable. All goalkeepers make mistakes, yes, but it's now almost a regular occurence for De Gea these past couple of years.
I hear what you guys are saying. I've seen every single De Gea United game. And i've seen all the Schmeichel games our national broadcaster permitted me to see back in the day. I disagree with you lot, but it seems like i'm alone with my opinion. Fair enough.
But this error is a symptom of his flaws as a keeper, he's almost always passive which leads sometimes to those comical errors.
Day dreaming at this level is simply unacceptable
Time for Butland
Thank god Ten Hag is level headed and not as knee jerky as half the Caf. Caf would have different keeper every few games.
yeah, people do forget Big Pete's mistakes. I think at his very very best Schmeichal was the one capable of putting in unreal performances but VDS was probably the more consistent of the two. I'd pick Schmeichal for how he was at his best but I can think of very few absolute howlers from VDS.Exactly
As great as he was I remember Schmeichel making loads of silly mistakes. Hate this revisionist knee jerk nonsense. That's assuming he even watched him play.