That was a typo: "here" should be "there". Quit the pedantry!
He's started 10 out of his last 13? Hmmmm but Wilshere has played more league minutes despite the fact that he was injured till the last weekend of October.
Wilshere - where does the hype come from?
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
- Status
He's started 10 out of his last 13? Hmmmm but Wilshere has played more league minutes despite the fact that he was injured till the last weekend of October.
Presumably one where he gets to gobble off Tom Cleverley.
Carrick, Cleverley, Wilshere would be a very tidy midfield three.
CACAW!
I was quite surprised with Gerrard against Brazil. He actually curbed his natural instincts to Roy of the Rovers every move to death and let CAW* get on with their shit.
* better than WAC
I was quite surprised with Gerrard against Brazil. He actually curbed his natural instincts to Roy of the Rovers every move to death and let CAW* get on with their shit.
* better than WAC
CAW doesn't work Mockney. Since its actually 'CL'.
But Carrick and Cleverley can be CAC.
But Carrick and Cleverley can be CAC.
When does the thread title get changed? It gets kind of annoying to read now everyone can see where the hype comes from.
Gerrard played well but I put it down to him being too old to run around like a headless chicken any more.
You can be a fan of Cleverley all you want, but he's really not close to Wilshere's ability in any real sense.
Cleverley is a good player and all that, but Wilshere has the potential to be one of the top five midfielders of his generation. It's talent on a different scale.
It would. Let's hope Fergie feels the same.
Hubris!
Maybe he was talking in terms of the actual performances and not potential for futur ones
The CLAW!
Bebe also has the potential to be the best winger in the world sometime in the future. Potential is just what it is, potential. Peterstorey has the potential to become the manager @ Arsenal, all he needs is a coaching badge.
Let's talk about the qualities they both have now. Let's analyse the strengths and weaknesses. I know Wilshere is far younger but age is nothing. I thought Owen would go on score more than 1000 goals in his career during France 98.
He played the Bebe card!
I don't know what your point is? Cleverley is a far less impressive player than Beckham was at his age. Most of our excitement about him is what he's got the potential to be. If we're ignoring potential, Tom hasn't really done that much to acquire such a high status in your mind.
Either way, currently, or potentially, Wilshere is still the better player.
Why are there two Wilshere threads talking about the same things?
If we're going by at the moment then once again, the answer is Wilshere as he's shown a lot more and is the better player. If you're trying to divert away from the fact that he's the player with more potential, because he is, then you're doing a poor job of it.
As things stand. But I remember the Reyes V Ronaldo debates with Arsenal fans.
Caf genius, you clearly haven't seen the squarka.com article!
Voting for a merger
Agreed with most posters here. It's not a sin to say other player is better than ours. As long as we still appreciate of what we have, I think it's good enough.
About lesser outsiders recognition of Cleverley, it is what the best for him at this stage of career. At 23, Cleverley knows he still needs to do much more, improves every aspect of his game; basically to never feels he's a finish article already.
Xavi, one of the best all time midfielder, had an 'identity crisis' as 25 y.o. With the right team setup and manager, now he's recognized by others maybe beyond his wildest dream.
I'm just saying that Cleverley not being recognized (at 23 y.o.) as better player than Wilshere isn't a bad thing. Let's talk again at the end of their respective careers. This United midfielder might surprise us a lot, just by looking at his exponential improvement so far. Being from a loanee at bottom team to become one of main United midfielder and full England international (so far) in the space of 2 years, is just remarkable feat for any player, actually.
About lesser outsiders recognition of Cleverley, it is what the best for him at this stage of career. At 23, Cleverley knows he still needs to do much more, improves every aspect of his game; basically to never feels he's a finish article already.
Xavi, one of the best all time midfielder, had an 'identity crisis' as 25 y.o. With the right team setup and manager, now he's recognized by others maybe beyond his wildest dream.
I'm just saying that Cleverley not being recognized (at 23 y.o.) as better player than Wilshere isn't a bad thing. Let's talk again at the end of their respective careers. This United midfielder might surprise us a lot, just by looking at his exponential improvement so far. Being from a loanee at bottom team to become one of main United midfielder and full England international (so far) in the space of 2 years, is just remarkable feat for any player, actually.
Hubris!
Just imagine, instead of Cleverley, we had Henderson.
Beck was loaned at preston
Exactly. Turned out to be a good player, wasn't he?
Anyone who thinks that Clev is as talented or even nearly as talented as Wilshere is utterly deluded.
Clev is a good player but Wilshere has he potential to be world class.
Clev is a good player but Wilshere has he potential to be world class.
As things stand, yes. That said, Wilshere is almost 3 years younger than Cleverley and is already a much superior player so it seems unlikely that'll change.
Do you also remember the Henry vs RvN debates and the Fabregas vs Anderson debates?
I don't see the need to compare them or put one down either, both are very good talents and both imo have a lot more room for improvement
It's crucial Arsenal retain their place in the top 4. Once you slip out, it's not easy to get back in.
I don't think you can really compair Cleverly and Wilshere, yes they're both midfielders but they operate in different roles.
Wilshere is given much more license to go forward, his job is to create chances, get in the box and score goals. He's always going to look like the better player because what he does is much more glamorous.
What Cleverly does isn't glamorous but it's essential and necessary for any team, Cleverly is as said earlier in the thread, the facilitator. He does a lot of the watercarrier work to allow Wilshere or Carrick to do their thing. He always makes himself available for a pass when someone finds themselves running out time and space. He closes players down and forces them to rush in possession and he's very cool and composed in possession and rarely gets caught out and due to his quick feet when pressed rarely loses the ball or his cool (Which is a weakness of Carrick, if he's pressed quickly ala Barca he gets caught out alot).
What he does is keep the game ticking over with simple one or two touch then passing the ball, he sets up great one two's that carve teams open when he's around players on the same wave length as him (Kagawa / Wilshere *see the brazil game).
Wilshere is given much more license to go forward, his job is to create chances, get in the box and score goals. He's always going to look like the better player because what he does is much more glamorous.
What Cleverly does isn't glamorous but it's essential and necessary for any team, Cleverly is as said earlier in the thread, the facilitator. He does a lot of the watercarrier work to allow Wilshere or Carrick to do their thing. He always makes himself available for a pass when someone finds themselves running out time and space. He closes players down and forces them to rush in possession and he's very cool and composed in possession and rarely gets caught out and due to his quick feet when pressed rarely loses the ball or his cool (Which is a weakness of Carrick, if he's pressed quickly ala Barca he gets caught out alot).
What he does is keep the game ticking over with simple one or two touch then passing the ball, he sets up great one two's that carve teams open when he's around players on the same wave length as him (Kagawa / Wilshere *see the brazil game).
Giggedy
He's a top talent but the way some go on about the player is today is a bit over the top. I don't think hes a genuine top performer in the league the way someone like Bale is, for example.
He's gonna be fecking miles better than Bale
Why can't you compare players in different roles? Messi plays in a completely different role from Paul McShane, but it's fairly easy to compare them... Messi's better.
That said, it is a shame that this comparison looks likely to become a constant thing. Clev's not as talented as Wilshere but few are, he's an exellent player in his own right, getting better all the time, and the two ought to mesh together very well.
I think wilshere is one of the top players in the league, certainly up there as a midfielder, always looks to take responsibility, works hard, gets stuck in and has lots of creative talent. Additionally he carries the ball really well, that's one of the big differences between him and cleverley, wilshere can and will get the ball in the middle and drive forward, clev is a similar stature but his natural inclination is to turn sideways with the ball.
Clev can an is becoming an important player for us but wilshere is just a step up in my opinion and is a few years younger. Really expect him to be a top player if he gets some more luck with injuries.
Clev can an is becoming an important player for us but wilshere is just a step up in my opinion and is a few years younger. Really expect him to be a top player if he gets some more luck with injuries.
Remains to be seen. Hes more talented i agree. But right now, in terms of actual performances/impact he is well behind.
Sure, but he's three years younger and has just missed a year with injury.
I know but it's important to differentiate between potential/ability and actual performances. I think he's hugely talented but he's not one of the league's top players like you'd imagine based on some posts. Long way to go still.
I think he's closer than you do but yeah, he's got it all to prove.
A lot of this is if's, but's and maybe's though by trying to justify the careers of other players to justify that Cleverley is going to be top class. For example, just because Xavi wasn't world class at 25 and became so later on doesn't mean the same with happen with Cleverley. Likewise, just because he had a loan spell and has improved since coming back does not mean he is going to be as good as Beckham either.
I wouldn't really say he's our main midfielder either, and is only debatably one of our important ones. He had one spell of being a main midfielder at the start of the 2011/2012 season but has only really been decent since and hasn't shown anything near what he did then. It's not really too remarkable a feat either when you look at him and consider that he's already 23 years old.
if Wilshere fills anywhere near his potential then he'll probably be a better player than Cleverley.
- Status