Would you sack or keep Ole? (Poll reopened)

[anant]

People keep on saying "if he wasn't a club legend, he wouldn't be anywhere near a job in PL". Well, he did manage Cardiff, and he did get an offer from Aston Villa before he signed for Cardiff. We all know he was hired as an interim manager, and he got the job because we performed way better than expected.
We've cleared up good in the squad. The hit rate on his transfers is out of this world compared to his predecessors.

Stay behind the manager until we see if we end up within the top 4, and get a cup-run. #StillOleIn.

Not just predecessors who had a horrible hit rate, but also compared to other big sides

 

[Fanatic 00237]

This strawman about how people want the club to fail, just because they are critical of the manager, just needs to go away. If people want the club to fail, why would they be fuming at that first half performance? Shouldn't they be happy to see us perform like that?

I've never seen anyone be able to back that argument up with any quotes. It's such a bollocks argument and it's no wonder things are so toxic in here. No room for sensible discussion regarding Ole. Someone who was unhappy with today's performance got called a 'sad pathetic cnut' and that post just sits there and people quote it calling for promotion of the guy. If you're critical of Ole you get labelled as someone who should support another club, a shit fan or something else.

Like I said in another thread, I’ve seen a good number of posts clearly complaining that a positive result would only extend Ole’s tenure as manager longer. Haven’t you? (Sorry, I have no quotes but I think these are quite common so I guess you must have seen it too).

I mean, it’s alright to want the manager sacked but you must agree that having the discussion about sacking after EVERY SINGLE GAME definitely creates a toxic atmosphere among fans. Any polarising debate is bound to end up becoming toxic and keeping this one continuously throughout the season can only breed toxicity. People would only dig in further in their positions and use anything as evidence that they are right.

It would be okay if this thread was bumped once a month or every two months for a few days after a really terrible performance and/or result (for an OleOuter) or after a really excellent performance (for an OleIner), but having it continuously isn’t really healthy for the forum.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Berbaclass]

Like I said in another thread, I’ve seen a good number of posts clearly complaining that a positive result would only extend Ole’s tenure as manager longer. Haven’t you? (Sorry, I have no quotes but I think these are quite common so I guess you must have seen it too).

I mean, it’s alright to want the manager sacked but you must agree that having the discussion about sacking after EVERY SINGLE GAME definitely creates a toxic atmosphere among fans. Any polarising debate is bound to end up becoming toxic and keeping this one continuously throughout the season can only breed toxicity. People would only dig in further in their positions and use anything as evidence that they are right.

It would be okay if this thread was bumped once a month or every two months for a few days after a really terrible performance and/or result (for an OleOuter) or after a really excellent performance (for an OleIner), but having it continuously isn’t really healthy for the forum.

Just my humble opinion.

You're welcome to quote them.

 

[bond19821982]

Based on this comment, looks like you are not in the dark side anymore?

I am still very much Ole out but have always given credit where it's due.

That first half was one of the horrible ones I have ever watched as an United fan.

 

[John Blund]

That's the standard is it? Relegating Cardiff and turning down Villa?

No, I'm not saying that's the standard, I'm saying people can't use the argument that no other team in the PL would take him. I would be furious if we had Lampard as manager. I have no idea if he's better or worse than OGS, but he sure as hell isn't getting the same crap from Chelsea's online fanbase. It's always like this in bigger clubs. I could probably name 10 legends in clubs who got the job mainly because they are legends of the club. There's nothing special about that - even with next to none managerial experience. Actually on that part, Ole probably had more experience than many legends of clubs before he took over as INTERIM manager. Remember - he got the job as permanent manager after we had a great run with Ole at the wheel.

 

[John Blund]

I am still very much Ole out but have always given credit where it's due.

That first half was one of the horrible ones I have ever watched as an United fan.

This is on you - usually, there are some games between the lowest of low, but it's only around 2 months since we got hammered by Spurs the first 45. That was the worst first half I've seen in 25 years.

 

[Halftrack]

That was the point I made above, that whenever people are asked to back up their claims that a large number of fans want the club to fail, or are happy when we lose, they vanish without a quote in sight. Posting things like that without backing it up just breeds toxicity because people get further entrenched in their positions which ruins every chance of a sensible discussion, which is what forums should be about.

It's why this thread descends into pointless name-calling and people telling others to go support the Scousers just because people happen to be of the opinion that we'd be better off with another manager.

I mean, I could say that I've seen posters who like Maguire say that they like eating babies, but you'd expect me to back it up, wouldn't you?

You mean in the same way that patting each other on the back about how reasonable and logical you are, as opposed to the Ole cult, does?

I like how you just shovel all the blame for why this thread is a shitshow over on the posters that support Ole, ignoring the absolute rancid piss that gets sprayed all over this thread when we have a poor start to a game.

But here, a few quotes. These are only ones I've responded to, because those were the only ones I could be arsed to find. I've anonymised them, but you're free to google them to confirm their veracity.

If missing top4 would mean that this so called manager will be fired i would sign it this second.

(said during our last league game against West Ham)

Thank fcuk for that, thought Ole was going to have a lucky escape again.

(said when Sheffield equalized after 90 minutes at Bramall Lane last season)

In a way, hate to say it, but it's kind of a good thing we didn't pull out a totally jammy, undeserved, flukey win to extend Ole's stay of execution yet again.

(not as bad as the other two, I'll admit, but none the less an example of a poster believing us losing is a good thing if it means Ole get's the sack)

 

[Glideman]

If Ole somehow wins the league, which isn't impossible, the caf will be a very strange place...

 

[Fanatic 00237]

You're welcome to quote them.

I’m really no fan of “name and shame”, everyone has the right to their opinion but I promise I’ll quote you next time I see one.

 

[Berbaclass]

I’m really no fan of “name and shame”, everyone has the right to their opinion but I promise I’ll quote you next time I see one.

If that makes you feel better go for it!

 

[RedPhil1957]

You're welcome to quote them.

quote, quote, quote ----------- puerile! We all know those posts exist, if you are that desperate to read them look yourself.

 

[onetwo3oclock4oclockrock]

2 points of the top, and we did start the season with a big disadvantage. Also the best club in PL since January- that's almost a year. I don't think that calls for a sacking.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

You mean in the same way that patting each other on the back about how reasonable and logical you are, as opposed to the Ole cult, does?

I like how you just shovel all the blame for why this thread is a shitshow over on the posters that support Ole, ignoring the absolute rancid piss that gets sprayed all over this thread when we have a poor start to a game.

But here, a few quotes. These are only ones I've responded to, because those were the only ones I could be arsed to find. I've anonymised them, but you're free to google them to confirm their veracity.

(said during our last league game against West Ham)

(said when Sheffield equalized after 90 minutes at Bramall Lane last season)

(not as bad as the other two, I'll admit, but none the less an example of a poster believing us losing is a good thing if it means Ole get's the sack)

Thanks a lot.

@Berbaclass here you go for a few examples.

 

[Berbaclass]

quote, quote, quote ----------- puerile! We all know those posts exist, if you are that desperate to read them look yourself.

I'm not the one who keeps bringing them up so ask yourself if I am indeed 'desperate' at all.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

If that makes you feel better go for it!

Actually, it doesn’t make me feel better which is why I hardly do it.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I am still very much Ole out but have always given credit where it's due.

That first half was one of the horrible ones I have ever watched as an United fan.

Nice at least you gave credit where it’s due unlike last season.

 

[RedPhil1957]

Even better day to celebrate, as well as first team the under 23's, under 18's and the ladies all won. Makes me happy at least.

 

[anant]

If Ole somehow wins the league, which isn't impossible, the caf will be a very strange place...

Would it?

I know how it would go. "Still has to prove if he can win it when other teams have fully fit squads." "You guys used the injury excuse in 19/20, so the same argument should be applied for them", "The mark of a great team is to defend the title, let's see if he can do that", "He's done well, but the title is just due to Bruno and Rashford and the individual brilliance", "This points total wouldn't win the title in any of the last 4 seasons".

Take your pick

 

[Halftrack]

You're welcome to quote them.

Are you denying that it happens? Because I'm pretty sure you know that it happens. If you spend any time in the United forum, you've seen them. Unless you've responded to them, they're a bitch to find though. I've seen many, but we're talking weeks or months back, and finding the relevant match day/post match thread, or even the relevant "let's whine about Ole" thread is a pain, and most (like me) aren't going to want to spend ages digging through a bunch of negativity and misery to find the specific kind of miserable posts that you're demanding.

Anyway, I gave a few examples in an earlier post if it's really that important to you.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

We are 4th and we actually still haven't found a balanced starting 11.

 

[RedPhil1957]

I'm not the one who keeps bringing them up so ask yourself if I am indeed 'desperate' at all.

you keep asking for the quote, as if they do not exist when everybody knows they do.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

If Ole somehow wins the league, which isn't impossible, the caf will be a very strange place...

Indeed, it will! I’m pretty sure you will still have a huge camp of fans claiming we only won thanks to the players, despite Ole, and asking for Ole to be replaced by a “better manager”. Like someone said, people simply hate to be wrong. Maybe it’s just human.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

No it did not. The type of of comments we got was not the type that had "genuine concerns", it was the usual knee jerk nonsense. Its perfectly fine to have concerns about Ole. Plenty of posters have that. They still dont resort to shitpost in this thread at half fecking time


Oh but the first half did? I already said we were fecking gash in the first half, but somehow that blame falls squarely on the manager and the second half performance (and subs) goes unnoticed. Hmm. Strange. We played a new system in first half that might have had an effect, but it still does not explain why why could not find a team mate or could not manage to pass or trap a ball. Coaching matters but its up to the fecking players to pull it off. They did not


Because its in a thread about the bleeding manager? After he selcted his 11 and given them his instructions, its not really a lot he can do besides looking busy from the sidelines and shout/point a lot. Which in this site is the mark of a good manager apparently



Thanks



I might, but its worth it. I'll freely admit i've placed my stocks here and i have a stake in this debate. I'll also admit i had maybe one too many beers and one too many other alcohols but i stand by what i said. If Ole is sacked by Christmas or by the end of the season ill stand by the next guy as well

Factually incorrect. Managers (the good ones at least) do a lot during matches. It's intangible, but it's a very basic job requirement. Otherwise why not just leave them at home?

 

[Rightnr]

Well, this thread has become a circle-jerk of self-congratulation again. Shame it wasn't obvious Bruno saved our backsides again and without him, we'd be done.

 

[Halftrack]

Well, this thread has become a circle-jerk of self-congratulation again. Shame it wasn't obvious Bruno saved our backsides again and without him, we'd be done.

Do you even know what a circle-jerk is? Because what's going on in here sure as hell isn't an example of it.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

Would it?

I know how it would go. "Still has to prove if he can win it when other teams have fully fit squads." "You guys used the injury excuse in 19/20, so the same argument should be applied for them", "The mark of a great team is to defend the title, let's see if he can do that", "He's done well, but the title is just due to Bruno and Rashford and the individual brilliance", "This points total wouldn't win the title in any of the last 4 seasons".

Take your pick

It’s funny to read but that’s pretty much what some will say. Spot on!

 

[Nou_Camp99]

2 points of the top, and we did start the season with a big disadvantage. Also the best club in PL since January- that's almost a year. I don't think that calls for a sacking.

Well said.

Since Bruno's debut: Utd 51 Liverpool 50

Ole outers are probably upset tonight. Its so sad how disgusting our fanbase has become. Woodward n the Glazers destroyed this club. Not Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

 

[Jeffthered]

People keep on saying "if he wasn't a club legend, he wouldn't be anywhere near a job in PL". Well, he did manage Cardiff, and he did get an offer from Aston Villa before he signed for Cardiff. We all know he was hired as an interim manager, and he got the job because we performed way better than expected.
We've cleared up good in the squad. The hit rate on his transfers is out of this world compared to his predecessors.

Stay behind the manager until we see if we end up within the top 4, and get a cup-run. #StillOleIn.

This is Manchester United's ambition now? This where 100 + OGS games has taken us? And you're happy with that?

 

[Berbaclass]

Are you denying that it happens? Because I'm pretty sure you know that it happens. If you spend any time in the United forum, you've seen them. Unless you've responded to them, they're a bitch to find though. I've seen many, but we're talking weeks or months back, and finding the relevant match day/post match thread, or even the relevant "let's whine about Ole" thread is a pain, and most (like me) aren't going to want to spend ages digging through a bunch of negativity and misery to find the specific kind of miserable posts that you're demanding.

Anyway, I gave a few examples in an earlier post if it's really that important to you.

I'm not denying anything really, I haven't seen any myself and like a few people I simply asked that you back up that claim.

I don't believe it's as common as people are making it out. You of course have idiots in the vast majority of the places on the internet and this place is no different.

It has to be said that context is important too though. The match day threads are not really the best place as people just spout garbage all the time if they're angry/frustrated and does not necessarily indicate someones true viewpoint or opinion and is often just a knee-jerk or heat of the moment comment.

 

[lysglimt]

Talk about strawman, fecking hell.

You can cherry pick matches to support an argument about pretty much anything.

You're comparing the greatest manager of all time to a fairly young manager that hasn't won anything outside of Norway.

And you are here whining after a game where we have beaten Hammers away by 3-1, a game we have lost time and time again. I feel sorry for you

 

[Anustart89]

You mean in the same way that patting each other on the back about how reasonable and logical you are, as opposed to the Ole cult, does?

I like how you just shovel all the blame for why this thread is a shitshow over on the posters that support Ole, ignoring the absolute rancid piss that gets sprayed all over this thread when we have a poor start to a game.

But here, a few quotes. These are only ones I've responded to, because those were the only ones I could be arsed to find. I've anonymised them, but you're free to google them to confirm their veracity.

(said during our last league game against West Ham)

(said when Sheffield equalized after 90 minutes at Bramall Lane last season)

(not as bad as the other two, I'll admit, but none the less an example of a poster believing us losing is a good thing if it means Ole get's the sack)

Fair play for actually providing quotes. That's all I'm asking. I'm not questioning whether those posts exist because I know they do, it's just that people will have you believe that everyone who doesn't think Ole is the man to take us forward actually wants the club to fail. Now, your selection is obviously based on what you've responded to, but in a forum that has 40,000 members and you being the only one providing quotes (from last season, no less) indicates that it's a pretty small minority.

In any case, this is a place to post your opinion and if you feel that the club will be better off in the short to medium to long term if the manager's replaced, it's hardly an indicator that someone should support another club or is a horrible person.

With regards to your other point, there's no doubt that people (myself included) are entrenched in the Ole out camp as well. I do realise that I look at this game and come to the conclusion that the game was won by Bruno's brilliance. I do realise that I look at McTominay passing the ball backwards in the first half and draw the conclusion that Ole doesn't make him pass it forward (until Bruno comes in) and use it as a stick to beat him with. However, you can disagree on all of these things without resorting to name calling. It's not about being logical or anything, it's about the fact that I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to be called a "sad pathetic cnut" for posting an opinion on a board that has an explicit rule saying "criticise the post, not the poster". I mean, we're not resorting to name-calling despite obviously being of different opinions, are we?

 

[Halftrack]

Thanks a lot.

@Berbaclass here you go for a few examples.

They spend a lot of time on here and in these threads, there's no way they haven't seen those posts. I feel like they know that finding the exact ones is such a chore that most aren't going to bother, so going "oh yeah? quote an example" is basically an "I Win" button.

 

[lysglimt]

What's holding that back from happening? Keep this in mind before you answer: Organization, focus, energy, cohesion, confidence all stem from strong coaching and leadership. It is the manager's job to get this out of his players on a consistent basis. This is not my opinion. This is a very basic fact any U12 coach understands.

With our team - probably a lot of things. We have some inexperienced players who are naturally inconsistant. We have a good squad, but we are still a few quality players short. We have some players who are nowhere near top form yet and who our struggling with confidence.

And despite all this - we have the quality and mental belief to turn things around - time and time again.

 

[Berbaclass]

you keep asking for the quote, as if they do not exist when everybody knows they do.

I'm fairly sure it was just the once but okay...

 

[lysglimt]

Amazing is somehow conceiving that comparison and being expected to be taken seriously in an intelligent discussion. Do you go back and read what you type? Sir Alex produced consistent results, and consequently title winning seasons, so starting a game poorly here and there can be looked at as an aberration. Seriously how do these thoughts even pop up in your head.

When it happens time and time again - it's not a coincidence anymore

 

[pacifictheme]

People keep on saying "if he wasn't a club legend, he wouldn't be anywhere near a job in PL". Well, he did manage Cardiff, and he did get an offer from Aston Villa before he signed for Cardiff. We all know he was hired as an interim manager, and he got the job because we performed way better than expected.
We've cleared up good in the squad. The hit rate on his transfers is out of this world compared to his predecessors.

Stay behind the manager until we see if we end up within the top 4, and get a cup-run. #StillOleIn.

People usually say a top job. Not seen anyone say any job.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

I'm not denying anything really, I haven't seen any myself and like a few people I simply asked that you back up that claim.

I don't believe it's as common as people are making it out. You of course have idiots in the vast majority of the places on the internet and this place is no different.

It has to be said that context is important too though. The match day threads are not really the best place as people just spout garbage all the time if they're angry/frustrated and does not necessarily indicate someones true viewpoint or opinion and is often just a knee-jerk or heat of the moment comment.

So you’ve successfully gone from “they don’t exist, prove they do by providing quotes” to “okay you have a few quotes but is a minority and you should take context into account”.

Unless someone digs up all the quotes where it’s been said, your mind is already made up about this, isn’t it?

They spend a lot of time on here and in these threads, there's no way they haven't seen those posts. I feel like they know that finding the exact ones is such a chore that most aren't going to bother, so going "oh yeah? quote an example" is basically an "I Win" button.

Indeed, it’s far too common for someone not to have noticed. Even I don’t spend a lot of time here but I see them all the time.

 

[Berbaclass]

So you’ve successfully gone from “they don’t exist, prove they do by providing quotes” to “okay you have a few quotes but is a minority and you should take context into account”.

Unless someone digs up all the quotes where it’s been said, your mind is already made up about this, isn’t it?



Indeed, it’s far too common for someone not to have noticed. Even I don’t spend a lot of time here but I see them all the time.

I said that where exactly?

 

[Fanatic 00237]

People usually say a top job. Not seen anyone say any job.

Likewise, people usually say any job in a top league. And, sorry, I have no quotes.

 

[Fanatic 00237]

I said that where exactly?

It’s alright mate, I don’t think we’re going anywhere with this. I guess you got my point already and I think I got yours too. I’m off to celebrate the excellent result.
Cheers!