What's people's opinion on playing Valencia at left back? I reckon he would cope better than the other choices, with Robben's pace and his tendency to cut inside.
Your team/tactics vs Bayern
- Thread starter Rozay
- Start date
That's why they crushed Juve and Barca last season. Neither team could hold the ball up in the attacking third, instead crumbling to Bayern's super aggressive pressuring.
Having someone to lump it forward to in attack will help. I honestly think this is the kind of game where Fellaini will be most useful.
We'd be hard pressed to offer something similar to what in my view was one of SAF's best tactical performances. We also had players in good form then and he dropped Rooney. Moyes won't drop Rooney nor Van Persie, so Rooney will have to play a super disciplined game, similar to Wednesday. The reality is though that this Bayern side are better than Madrid last year.
The outlets we'd have would be Welbeck's pace, Rooney's vision if he's got enough space and Tony/Januzaj/Kagawa. I think we honestly need to go old school and make set pieces count. We're going to defend for a majority of the game, regardless of line-up I'm afraid.
I wouldn't normally want us to play like that, but a quick counter and good height appears to me to be the best weapons we can deploy. We've also got the "luxury" of being able to rest everyone we want to rest for those two games as our league games pale in significance to the upcoming tie. I'm quite optimistic, feel like we've got a 30% chance
No - he does not. But have you seen France - Germany last year. He has the playing intelligence that Evra did not even know until then was his biggest nightmare...
Funny, that is probably what Juve, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Barcelona etc. thought, too...
I think Welbeck would stretch them more and hold it up just as well.
I'd still advocate starting Fellaini, though.
I'd still advocate starting Fellaini, though.
Problem is Fellaini cant hold the ball up. He can win it well. But you need people bombing forward off of him as outlays because he's not good enough with the ball at his feet to keep it. It'd be a question of us hitting Fellaini constantly, him chesting it down and then getting robbed as soon as it hit his feet by Bayern's better players.
Our best hope is to play percentages, try and counter and buy free kicks and then overload Bayern's box at set plays.
De Gea
Jones - Smalling - Evans - Rafael
Carrick - Fellaini
Valencia - Rooney - Welbeck
Van Persie
We simply have to play Valencia and Welbeck for their pace, work rate and to give us some shape. Jones - Smalling - Evans - Rafael
Carrick - Fellaini
Valencia - Rooney - Welbeck
Van Persie
Rooney to drop very deep so it's essentially a midfield 3. Look to hit on the break with Valencia, Rooney and Welbeck.
I think Jones and Rafael should be the two full backs. I don't think it matters which way around - I've drawn Rafael at LB, but I'd be equally happy with Jones at LB.
Do Munich have any first-leg suspensions?
Why not play Rafael in his normal position, Smalling and Jones in their favoured position at centre half and Evans at left back. He's played there before and at least then you're getting the other three in their best positions.
Agreed. Evans should play left-back
I haven't. Tell me more about it!
Evans cannot get forward effectively. We need to get forward wherever possible. If nothing else, it may give us some respite from Robben fecking running only one-way against us.
Given the opponents I would rather have a solid defensive line than Evra or whoever else running upfield and leaving space. This is going to be a game where our forward players are going to have to do without a lot of support.
De Gea
Giggs
Vidic
Smalling
Rafael
Jones
Carrick
Cleverley
Welbeck
Rooney
Van Persie
Giggs
Vidic
Smalling
Rafael
Jones
Carrick
Cleverley
Welbeck
Rooney
Van Persie
Again people on this forum insist we play a 4-2-3-1 which hasn't worked ALL season, against BAYERN MUNICH of all people?? seriously!
That's what I thought would be the best option before I heard the draw, but as a few people have mentioned, I wouldn't be confident with Evans against Robben's pace.
Jones has played more regularly at full back than Evans, who has played more regularly at CB than Jones.
Obviously Jones being right-footed is a problem but then against a Robben who looks to cut inside regularly then it might actually be beneficial anyway.
Home:
De Gea
Rafael - Smalling - Evans - Büttner
Jones - Cleverley
Welbeck - Rooney - Kagawa
Van Persie
We need mobility in midfield to strangle Thiago, Kroos, Schweini and whoever else will be running rings around us. Rooney to drop back and add bodies in midfield. Welbeck and Kagawa ahead of Valencia, Januzaj and Young because they provide a more balanced combination of creativity, link-up play and work rate. Try to snatch a goal and defend for dear life.
Away:
De Gea
Rafael - Evans - Jones - Evra
Fellaini
Valencia - Cleverley - Rooney - Welbeck
Van Persie
Shut up shop and be cynical, counter with pace on the wings.
De Gea
Rafael - Smalling - Evans - Büttner
Jones - Cleverley
Welbeck - Rooney - Kagawa
Van Persie
We need mobility in midfield to strangle Thiago, Kroos, Schweini and whoever else will be running rings around us. Rooney to drop back and add bodies in midfield. Welbeck and Kagawa ahead of Valencia, Januzaj and Young because they provide a more balanced combination of creativity, link-up play and work rate. Try to snatch a goal and defend for dear life.
Away:
De Gea
Rafael - Evans - Jones - Evra
Fellaini
Valencia - Cleverley - Rooney - Welbeck
Van Persie
Shut up shop and be cynical, counter with pace on the wings.
Doesn't really matter what you call it - it's probably going to look like 4-5-1 or 6-3-1 when Bayern are in possession and then (hopefully) spring forward into something that looks more like 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4 when (if) we have the ball. Seems a little pointless to get hung up on the numbers - the difference between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 is about 5 yards.
It's just a load of bloody names on a digital piece of paper. I'm sure everyone who posted a 4231 thinks that Rooney needs to play much more as a midfielder than as a striker against Bayern. If you're so sensitive to it, then in future just assume that everyone who posts:
Carrick - Fellaini
Valencia - Rooney - Welbeck
RVP
Valencia - Rooney - Welbeck
RVP
actually means....
Carrick
Fellaini - Rooney
Valencia ------------- Welbeck
RVP
or....Fellaini - Rooney
Valencia ------------- Welbeck
RVP
Fellaini - Carrick - Rooney
Valencia - RVP - Welbeck
Carrick
Valencia - Fellaini - Rooney - Welbeck
RVP
Valencia - Fellaini - Rooney - Welbeck
RVP
Because on paper it doesn't really matter. It's all the same. Whichever simplified way you choose to write it will fail to be an accurate representation of what actually occurs on the pitch.
Formations.
Not sure if serious. Giggs would get murdered a thousand times during 90mins at left back.
Isn't Smalling out for a month? Could be really tight for him being back for this one.
And lining up with 2 out of position fullbacks would be sheer folly.
Valenci and Welbeck are no brainers. Pace and workrate, as we'll be without that ball a lot.
Rooney will have to play a clever game to not run out of energy by 60
Take it more as a sign people aren't happy with Buttner!
that's what I took the Rafael/Evans/Jones debate to mean. I'd rather Buttner than Giggs, though I'd go for neither...
De Gea
Rafael - Jones - Smalling - Evans
Fletcher
Fellaini Carrick
Welbeck ----- Rooney
Van Persie
Rafael - Jones - Smalling - Evans
Fletcher
Fellaini Carrick
Welbeck ----- Rooney
Van Persie
Fellaini has to play a role, just has to. If we get a corner or a free kick Fellaini makes us a massive threat
There is a huge difference in fact, 3 in the middle is exactly that, 3 midfielders not a striker dropping back and helping out. A 4-2-3-1 is 2 disciplined midfielders allowing the playmaker to have a bit more freedom. It would far more beneficial for Rooney to play on the wing otherwise he is only going to be chasing the ball in the middle and exhausting himself out. We saw against Liverpool (and most other teams this season) that Rooney dropping back and helping out does not work and we still get outplayed in midfield. You can get away with it against lesser opposition because you can attack them far more but quality opposition with quality midfielders such as Bayern will simply go right through us.
Have people not seen how we have been overrun in midfield this season? Good (and bad) teams have waltzed past our midfield with one pass and then put the defence under immense pressure. It still beggars belief there are people on this forum suggesting a Carrick-Fellani combination
, have they not seen any of our games this season??? That is the most static combination you can get, Kroos, Schewiensteiger and Thiago will simply out pass and manoeuvre us. You might get away with it in football manager, but this is the real world. I would love to hear anyone suggesting that combination to explain how they will get the better of the Bayern midfield when they couldn't even get the better of Joe Allen and Jordan Henderson???!An extremely defensive 3-4-3 (5-4-1) would probably make sense from a purely tactical perspective, but since we have no time to perfect that kind of system, I'd go with:
Obviously we will struggle in midfield where we'll have a 2 v 3, but since we wont be looking to have possession, it shouldn't be a huge problem.
De Gea
Rafael Smalling Jones Evans
Valencia Fellaini Carrick Welbeck
Rooney
RvP
Rafael Smalling Jones Evans
Valencia Fellaini Carrick Welbeck
Rooney
RvP
Obviously we will struggle in midfield where we'll have a 2 v 3, but since we wont be looking to have possession, it shouldn't be a huge problem.
He'll play the same exact team minus Evra that beat Olympiokos.. because he is a tactial idiot.
Are you seriously suggesting we pick a player who just because he may be a threat at a corner in the most important game of our season??? we need players to chase down the opposition given the possession they will have, if maybe we have another agile midfielder with him, he cold have played in a midfield 3, but we don't and we will not drop Carrick who is also not the most mobile. Playing them both is a recipe for disaster.
Yeah but there are other options. I still favour Rafael at LB and Jones at RB.
De Gea
Rafael - Smalling - Vidic - Evans
Jones
Welbeck ----- Rooney
Van Persie
or
De Gea
Fellaini - Giggs - Jones
Welbeck ----- Rooney
Welbeck ----- Rooney
Van Persie
I'm suggesting by far our most likely chance of scoring is from a set piece, so leaving out by far our biggest threats from set pieces isn't a good idea. Maybe you think we'll hit them on the break with fine, pacey football, cleverly threading through balls through the eye of the needle, but I think we have a better chance of scoring with a big, physical side and Jones/Smalling and esp Fellaini attacking corners and free kicks (not just corners as you mistakenly said in your post) as well as when the ball goes out wide
We wont be looking to get the better of the Bayern midfield. We are not going to be competing in a 'formation battle' in an open game; we will be getting men behind the ball and playing on the break.There is a huge difference in fact, 3 in the middle is exactly that, 3 midfielders not a striker dropping back and helping out. A 4-2-3-1 is 2 disciplined midfielders allowing the playmaker to have a bit more freedom. It would far more beneficial for Rooney to play on the wing otherwise he is only going to be chasing the ball in the middle and exhausting himself out. We saw against Liverpool (and most other teams this season) that Rooney dropping back and helping out does not work and we still get outplayed in midfield. You can get away with it against lesser opposition because you can attack them far more but quality opposition with quality midfielders such as Bayern will simply go right through us.
Have people not seen how we have been overrun in midfield this season? Good (and bad) teams have waltzed past our midfield with one pass and then put the defence under immense pressure. It still beggars belief there are people on this forum suggesting a Carrick-Fellani combination
-------------------DDG----------------------
--------Smalling----------Evans--------------
Valencia----------Jones--------------Rafael
---------Fellaini------------Giggs-----------
-----------------Rooney------------------
-----------RVP----------Welbeck----------
Bench: Lindgaard, Vidic, Büttner, Carrick, Kagawa, Januzaj, Hernandez
(Cleverley, Fletcher and Young seem absolutley useless for me in this tie)
--------Smalling----------Evans--------------
Valencia----------Jones--------------Rafael
---------Fellaini------------Giggs-----------
-----------------Rooney------------------
-----------RVP----------Welbeck----------
Bench: Lindgaard, Vidic, Büttner, Carrick, Kagawa, Januzaj, Hernandez
(Cleverley, Fletcher and Young seem absolutley useless for me in this tie)
Exactly, closing people down, putting them under pressure, then counter attacking when we have a chance. The lack of mobility in a Carrick - Fellani will struggle do to that.
I thought that's what Fellaini was for.
We are not going to be pressing their midfield. Our defence and midfield will both sit deep and narrow and look to be as compact between the lines as possible.
Yes I do think our best chance is on the counter not just waiting around for a free kick or a corner. we have to put pressure on them, close them down and hit them on the break. You cannot go into a game just hoping to win something from a free kick or corner, this is European football not Stoke City playing someone, you have to have some strategy for the whole 90 mins, not simply 'we'll win a set piece'. Can you explain how you expect a midfield of Carrick and Fellani to close down the Bayern midfield and put pressure on them?
If Van Persie isn't fit I'd play Rooney up front and try and use pace on the break. Something like this.
De Gea
Rafael Vidic Smalling Evans
Carrick Fellaini Cleverley
Welbeck Rooney Nani
Rafael Vidic Smalling Evans
Carrick Fellaini Cleverley
Welbeck Rooney Nani
Well one thing for sure is it will be a fun game for Munich defenders if we don't bother giving them anything to think about. So long as it is XI aside, we must try to engage them.