Zidane sack watch - 19/20

Gandalf

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Bale achieved more than Zidane? :lol:
More CL's yeah, but Zidane's overall career is clearly much better than Bale's.
Achieved more, scores more goals, much better player and he has his own hair. No wonder Zidane is so fecking jealous.
 

Mainoldo

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But Bale has more goals! Of course, it’s a given a forward would score more than a midfielder, but still.... more goals!
Gareth Bale is Real Madrid’s equivalent of Ole Gunner Solskjaer. Super sub.
 

Acheron

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But I thought they had a great transferwindow with Hazard, Jovic, Mendy, Rodrygo and Militao, and things were looking good for them?
It started very good but by now I was expecting we would have already signed Erikessen and Van De Beek but it still was a good the attack was reinforced with Hazard and Jovic.
 

fallengt

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Do people still want him as Utd manager if he gets the boot from Real (IF) we were looking for another manager ?
Never wanted him.
His tactic was figured out by the time of his third years.
Surprisingly, the "cross it to Ronaldo" plan doesn't work when you don't have Ronaldo
 

midnightmare

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But I thought they had a great transferwindow with Hazard, Jovic, Mendy, Rodrygo and Militao, and things were looking good for them?
The hullabaloo about their transfer window is based on just the quantum - not the fitment or needs of the squad. Hazard apart, the others aren't even starters for the most part. They will all start behind players who were already in the under-achieving squad of last year - and in some cases, the purchase is a head-scratcher. Mendy, for example. Marcelo is a Zidane favourite - and Reguilon filled in very well last season; they also have Hakimi returning at the end of this season and supposedly rate him highly. Was Mendy essential?

The biggest issues for Madrid last season were in midfield (more on the defensive side to be fair), defence and all across the right flank. Yet, the only defender added is Militao (behind Varane and Ramos, in the pecking order) while Rodrygo will be in Castilla (not a RW anyway) and Hazard plays on the left, where Vinicius was a far lesser issue than most - and where you could argue they already have a few options. I said even in June that I didn't think people were right to call it a successful window for them.

Do people still want him as Utd manager if he gets the boot from Real (IF) we were looking for another manager ?
Even at the time it was discussed, most worries about Zidane revolved around how he'd handle a squad rebuild and transfers. Remember that Madrid are similar to us - in that the manager works with Flo (no DoF since the Jose days) on transfers. It was said when Zidane returned that Flo basically promised to get him all the players he wanted (as the condition for Zidane coming back). Since then, it's been a disaster. Look at what Zidane is doing in pre-season, dispassionately and compare with what we did last season under Jose:

1. He's changing formation to accommodate Marcelo (one of his favourites)
2. He's bashed two expensive players in public - destroying saleability as well as making it a very difficult situation for him if they stay (and it's not like he has options in the positions that James and Bale play either, which makes it weirder)
3. Defence is a mess and his CM + DM is a mess, but he's sold Llorente, loaned Ceballos and wants Pogba - who for all his virtues, will actually make the defensive side even weaker

All in all, he's not (so far) showing the signs of being the right man to lead a rebuild. His return last season didn't even give RM a decent new-manager bounce and on the evidence of pre-season, he's not even clear on how he's going to set up tactically. After so much time and a massive window (by spend), that's horrific. Remember also that buying so rapidly and so early is typically the sign of a club and manager that know what they want and how the pieces will fit. To blame it not fitting just on not getting Pogba is brainless. Honestly, I was quite in favour of our landing Zidane at the time. The more I see, the happier I am with our choice. No way I'd want him here today; may change if he suddenly pulls a rabbit out of the hat, but I really doubt that.

PS: I abhor Barca and have a soft corner for Real (always have) so it's not like I'm relishing this one bit. Would have liked to see Real strengthen and beat those Catalan cnuts, but as things stand, no way this works out and ends well :rolleyes:
 

kouroux

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The transfers they've made aren't bad at all, it's just with their aging squad it would need some great tactical masterplan to get them to compete seriously.
 

midnightmare

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The transfers they've made aren't bad at all, it's just with their aging squad it would need some great tactical masterplan to get them to compete seriously.
Umm... Standalone, the transfers "aren't bad". The thing is you should assess any and all transfers in context. The squad was in need of very specific immediate reinforcements - and arguably, none of those has been made. The Casemiro (and replacement / sub / backup) conundrum existed even last year. So did the need to urgently get in a ready right winger if Bale is out. Since ZZ shoved out James, they've also lacked anyone to play a proper #10 when they go to a 4-2-3-1. None of these signings has been made. Carvajal has been poor, Bale seems out, Vazquez has hardly been uprooting any trees and Modric has been fading for a whole season (and he's not getting younger). Which signing met these needs?

All the players signed may come good - but were they what this squad urgently needed? I'm not saying he should have signed geriatrics like Jose would, but the window has been a very expensive one and yet, only one player (a fat Hazard) actually improves the starting team!
 

kouroux

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Umm... Standalone, the transfers "aren't bad". The thing is you should assess any and all transfers in context. The squad was in need of very specific immediate reinforcements - and arguably, none of those has been made. The Casemiro (and replacement / sub / backup) conundrum existed even last year. So did the need to urgently get in a ready right winger if Bale is out. Since ZZ shoved out James, they've also lacked anyone to play a proper #10 when they go to a 4-2-3-1. None of these signings has been made. Carvajal has been poor, Bale seems out, Vazquez has hardly been uprooting any trees and Modric has been fading for a whole season (and he's not getting younger). Which signing met these needs?

All the players signed may come good - but were they what this squad urgently needed? I'm not saying he should have signed geriatrics like Jose would, but the window has been a very expensive one and yet, only one player (a fat Hazard) actually improves the starting team!
I know you should, it's just been talked about in death. I just wanted to look at it from a more simplistic view is all.
Zidane's task is problematic because their rebuild should have started the year before. Still think Juventus was the perfect club for him and this stint will be the end of him at Madrid.
 

Rajma

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Would love nothing more than seeing them fail miserably and Zidane to get sacked for Jose. No chance they're touching Pogba under those circumstances.
 

giorno

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The problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between Zidane and Florentino

Would be interesting to know what's going on behind the scenes there

As for the signings, as i've said two months ago, we just had our worst season in a decade and signed hazard and a bunch of backups. It was ridiculous and made much worse in light of the failure to sign Pogba, Zidane's one and only request
 

midnightmare

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The problem is that there seems to be a disconnect between Zidane and Florentino

Would be interesting to know what's going on behind the scenes there

As for the signings, as i've said two months ago, we just had our worst season in a decade and signed hazard and a bunch of backups. It was ridiculous and made much worse in light of the failure to sign Pogba, Zidane's one and only request
Have a concern here too, though. Where would Pogba fit in? Is he really the silver bullet? From all we've seen at United, Pogba is not the player that strengthens the spine, so to speak. He offers a ton of creative outlets, but does require a solid defensive base as he will drive forward and leave gaps. If you don't allow him to, the team loses out on his biggest attributes - and he is a defensive liability anyway. Given the woes of last season, I genuinely don't see how Zidane had a realistic vision of fixing everything with just Pogba. If the rest of the buying had a pattern, surely it'd be visible? It's hard to believe that Flo and Zizou didn't discuss the plan before the window - and all the media briefings seemed to suggest that these were Zidane's signings, not Flo's. If so, have to question what Zidane was / is after.

And yeah, all the recent moves - Zidane's PCs as well as rumours that his media work has been curtailed - point towards a major disconnect between Flo and Zizou.
 

giorno

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Have a concern here too, though. Where would Pogba fit in? Is he really the silver bullet? From all we've seen at United, Pogba is not the player that strengthens the spine, so to speak. He offers a ton of creative outlets, but does require a solid defensive base as he will drive forward and leave gaps. If you don't allow him to, the team loses out on his biggest attributes - and he is a defensive liability anyway. Given the woes of last season, I genuinely don't see how Zidane had a realistic vision of fixing everything with just Pogba. If the rest of the buying had a pattern, surely it'd be visible? It's hard to believe that Flo and Zizou didn't discuss the plan before the window - and all the media briefings seemed to suggest that these were Zidane's signings, not Flo's. If so, have to question what Zidane was / is after.

And yeah, all the recent moves - Zidane's PCs as well as rumours that his media work has been curtailed - point towards a major disconnect between Flo and Zizou.
Pogba has been a defensive liability only at united in his career. More to the point, he has the tools to be a great player in defensive transition - he's one of the best ball winners in the world in a high pressing line, and he has the pace to track back. Discipline him in terms of not losing focus and tracking his man and you've got Juventus's version of Pogba. And of course he's also better in offensive transition than what we have, but more importantly he's a goal threat. So yes, Pogba was the silver bullet - a player that could fix all of our midfield issues by himself.

As for the plan, Militao was signed before he came back, Rodrygo was signed two years ago and Zidane had nothing to do with it, in the summer Zidane asked for a LB that could actually compete with Marcelo rather than simply be his backup, and okeyed Jovic and Hazard, but ultimately the one player he demanded from Flo was Pogba himself, everything else was supposed to be dressing...

He also wanted Bale gone, and James, and both have turned into a major issue between him and Perez...
 

midnightmare

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Pogba has been a defensive liability only at united in his career. More to the point, he has the tools to be a great player in defensive transition - he's one of the best ball winners in the world in a high pressing line, and he has the pace to track back. Discipline him in terms of not losing focus and tracking his man and you've got Juventus's version of Pogba. And of course he's also better in offensive transition than what we have, but more importantly he's a goal threat. So yes, Pogba was the silver bullet - a player that could fix all of our midfield issues by himself.

As for the plan, Militao was signed before he came back, Rodrygo was signed two years ago and Zidane had nothing to do with it, in the summer Zidane asked for a LB that could actually compete with Marcelo rather than simply be his backup, and okeyed Jovic and Hazard, but ultimately the one player he demanded from Flo was Pogba himself, everything else was supposed to be dressing...

He also wanted Bale gone, and James, and both have turned into a major issue between him and Perez...
At Juventus, the formation and the midfielders alongside him allowed him the freedom of the park. Didn't hurt to be the dominant force in the league, of course. He's an exceptional talent and very good at interceptions as well as offensive transitions, but watching him week in, week out, one can see clearly that he's not the silver bullet a far-off observer may wish him to be - or even what his "natural attributes" may tell people he could be. Pogba can be great, but if Zizou really did put all his eggs in that one basket, doesn't speak too highly of his vision. This could go on and on, so let's leave it at our differing in opinion. All I'd say is, don't judge by just the odd game you see him play for France.

On the rest, Rodrygo was signed a year ago, but on Zidane's watch. Militao predates him (not technically, of course) but the others are all presumed to have been his selections. Marca ran and ran with how Flo had to accept Zidane's conditions which included getting him a bunch of his targets. On Bale and James, I just feel Zidane hasn't helped the club at all. The world and its dog knows how he views the two - and nobody is now going to touch them unless subsidized (Bale) or very cheap (James). It's not helping one bit - and it's not as if nobody saw this coming. Under those circumstances, don't see why he's completely alienated players who could be with the squad for the season. He dislikes Bale with a rare intensity, but I don't know if it's at all constructive right now, given how things - specially the squad - stand.

His love for LV is another that's beginning to grate - combined with his bizarre sanction to sell Llorente in particular. Had no time for Kovacic myself and Ceballos loan can be justified (perhaps), but leaving only Fede as cover just seems bizarre. Reguilon is another strange call, IMO (You'd likely know better, though). Just a bit flummoxed at all the transfer calls so far.
 

giorno

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At Juventus, the formation and the midfielders alongside him allowed him the freedom of the park.
Except they did not, in fact, give him the freedom of the park. Particularly defensively

All I'd say is, don't judge by just the odd game you see him play for France.
I don't, i judge him on 4 years at juventus under Conte and Allegri

On the rest, Rodrygo was signed a year ago, but on Zidane's watch.
Rodrygo was a 16 year old kid. Zidane had nothing to do with that. Neither with Vinicius. In fact, in his first time in charge Zidane didn't really have much to do with out incoming transfers beyond saying "i'm ok with this player" or "please don't sign this player"

Marca ran and ran with how Flo had to accept Zidane's conditions which included getting him a bunch of his targets.
Marca also claim Florentino did everything possible to sign Pogba, and also repeatedly mentioned themselves how Pogba was literally the one and only explicit request made by Zidane. Zidane had one actual target, and then a bunch of positions of need where he accepted Flo's targets

On Bale and James, I just feel Zidane hasn't helped the club at all. The world and its dog knows how he views the two - and nobody is now going to touch them unless subsidized (Bale) or very cheap (James). It's not helping one bit - and it's not as if nobody saw this coming. Under those circumstances, don't see why he's completely alienated players who could be with the squad for the season.
Now this i agree with. Would like to know what was going on behind the scenes

He dislikes Bale with a rare intensity,
He dislikes James waaaaaay more

His love for LV is another that's beginning to grate - combined with his bizarre sanction to sell Llorente in particular. Had no time for Kovacic myself and Ceballos loan can be justified (perhaps), but leaving only Fede as cover just seems bizarre.
How many players should we go into the season with, 30? He wants to play with 3 mids, then we need 6 in the team. Evidently Zidane rates Fede more than Llorente. On Lucas, yes, it does grate

Reguilon is another strange call, IMO (You'd likely know better, though). Just a bit flummoxed at all the transfer calls so far.
Reguilon was a good backup option. He could not be a starter. Marcelo gets his chance to prove last year was just a bad year and not the start of a decline, but if his performances don't improve, he'll lose his spot. Reguilon wasn't good enough to take his spot though
 

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He has to stop being a coach and start being a motivator. Focus more on motivating than on looking for tactical solutions.
Before he was super happy and now he looks like a ogre.
Even Vinicius looks like scared when is playing.
Take away power and presence in the media.
He is supposed to come to make a revolution, not to play Nacho and Lucas in preseason.
Not being so strict with his valuations, such as Reguilón, Ceballos, James or Bale, although I support him 100% in the case of Gareth.
In short,as @giorno said, play with the players club and fans want.
 

Cait Sith

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He is a goner. Barca look close to signing Neymar back, Barca executives are in Paris right now. 95 % chance Madrid win nothing next season. On top of last season's team that strolled the league and made the CL semis Barca are adding Griezmann, Neymar and De Jong.

Good luck to the Algerian Voodoo Shaman.
 

passing-wind

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Don't get Madrid's obsession with Pogba, outside of him being a key player for us he's not exactly going to single handedly change the club's fortunes. Madrid messed up by not getting clinical players to replace Ronaldo. No central midfielder is going to replace a 60 goal a season influence.
 

midnightmare

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Except they did not, in fact, give him the freedom of the park. Particularly defensively
I don't, i judge him on 4 years at juventus under Conte and Allegri

How many players should we go into the season with, 30? He wants to play with 3 mids, then we need 6 in the team. Evidently Zidane rates Fede more than Llorente. On Lucas, yes, it does grate
Not too long ago, a club with a creaky defence and dysfunctional attack thought similarly - that Pogba was the missing piece...
Let's just say that Pogba will definitely improve any midfield he enters, but isn't a magical fix. He's not the all-in-one metronome that this Madrid side would need. Such players don't exist. Pogba will lose the ball frequently (his nature as a creative player) and will be found upfield often. The defensive side of a team needs to be immaculate to really get the most out of him. Burden him too much (as this Madrid side would) and you'll see exactly what United saw last season. A player who can be as frustrating as brilliant.

On the midfield, go over the squad. It's madness to see the sheer volume of forwards and the paucity of the midfield. The official Madrid site lists 10 forwards and just 6 midfielders - including James and Isco. That's not balanced. Zizou wants shot of James - but surely it would just have been smarter to leave out some forward and keep Llorente, than to carry this ragged mess?

He has to stop being a coach and start being a motivator. Focus more on motivating than on looking for tactical solutions.
Before he was super happy and now he looks like a ogre.
Even Vinicius looks like scared when is playing.
Take away power and presence in the media.
He is supposed to come to make a revolution, not to play Nacho and Lucas in preseason.
Not being so strict with his valuations, such as Reguilón, Ceballos, James or Bale, although I support him 100% in the case of Gareth.
In short,as @giorno said, play with the players club and fans want.
From recent reports, media presence has been curtailed. Power - not sure what you can do to curtail a manager's power, short of sacking him. Also, it's unfair to say he shouldn't think of tactics and formations. If motivation was all that mattered, Ole would have turned United into world-beaters. You need a system and players to carry out the tasks properly. More than motivation, I think Zizou just needs to work on getting over his own ego and self-pity at not getting Pogba. Not every manager gets every demand met - specially when it involves a big-money transfer from a similarly-rich club that has no need to sell. "But Flo promised..." is not an excuse. Sounds like infantile rants more than anything if it comes from someone that wants to be a great manager.
 

Gasolin

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I read that he is on the verge of quitting because they haven't signed Pogba. Sounds a bit far fetched to me though.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/real-madrid-paul-pogba-transfer-zinedine-zidane-manchester-united-la-liga-season-preview-a9054236.html
He would rather quit than have a disaster of a season maybe? I want him to stay, I want to see what Zidane is about, without Pogba. See if it's all hype or not.

He said he wanted Hazard, Pogba and Mbappe, maybe to play a bit like France then?
I think Rashford can play the Mbappe role for Pogba at United. Martial just have to play the Griezmann role and hop, we will see a good Pogba in this CM play making role.
 

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Don't get Madrid's obsession with Pogba, outside of him being a key player for us he's not exactly going to single handedly change the club's fortunes. Madrid messed up by not getting clinical players to replace Ronaldo. No central midfielder is going to replace a 60 goal a season influence.
I don't think they have one? Zidane wants him, but if Madrid were that obsessed, he'd be gone by now, and there would be a lot more noise.
 

carvajal

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Not too long ago, a club with a creaky defence and dysfunctional attack thought similarly - that Pogba was the missing piece...
Let's just say that Pogba will definitely improve any midfield he enters, but isn't a magical fix. He's not the all-in-one metronome that this Madrid side would need. Such players don't exist. Pogba will lose the ball frequently (his nature as a creative player) and will be found upfield often. The defensive side of a team needs to be immaculate to really get the most out of him. Burden him too much (as this Madrid side would) and you'll see exactly what United saw last season. A player who can be as frustrating as brilliant.

On the midfield, go over the squad. It's madness to see the sheer volume of forwards and the paucity of the midfield. The official Madrid site lists 10 forwards and just 6 midfielders - including James and Isco. That's not balanced. Zizou wants shot of James - but surely it would just have been smarter to leave out some forward and keep Llorente, than to carry this ragged mess?


From recent reports, media presence has been curtailed. Power - not sure what you can do to curtail a manager's power, short of sacking him. Also, it's unfair to say he shouldn't think of tactics and formations. If motivation was all that mattered, Ole would have turned United into world-beaters. You need a system and players to carry out the tasks properly. More than motivation, I think Zizou just needs to work on getting over his own ego and self-pity at not getting Pogba. Not every manager gets every demand met - specially when it involves a big-money transfer from a similarly-rich club that has no need to sell. "But Flo promised..." is not an excuse. Sounds like infantile rants more than anything if it comes from someone that wants to be a great manager.
Of course It's not all motivation.It's delusional to think that he won 3 champions motivating players but his attitude was different.
More willing to deal with the players available. Accept that you are a coach and not a manager, that's what I mean with taking away power.
Yes, with Pogba he went a bit crazy. I understand that he wants a midfielder of that profile but should know that the club don't pay those amounts for midfielders
 

DRM

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Jesus, what a coward. Runs away as soon as the going gets tough. He knew when Ronaldo left Real wouldn't be competative anymore so he jumped ship. Now he knows Real won't be anywhere near barca despite all the new acquisitions (including one of the best players in the world in Hazard) so he's thinking of leaving again under the pretence of not getting pogba.
 

MVBDX

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No one is leaving, simpletons believing media's bullshit is nothing new though.
 

Ramshock

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Jesus, what a coward. Runs away as soon as the going gets tough. He knew when Ronaldo left Real wouldn't be competative anymore so he jumped ship. Now he knows Real won't be anywhere near barca despite all the new acquisitions (including one of the best players in the world in Hazard) so he's thinking of leaving again under the pretence of not getting pogba.
What's occurred?
 

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If he is sacked I hope they bring Mourinho in. Guarantees Pogba won't try to go there :D
 

Gasolin

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No one is leaving, simpletons believing media's bullshit is nothing new though.
I am sure he will stay, but that season could be comical for you as well then! I will get the pop corn out. I love this game! :lol::lol::lol:
 

MVBDX

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I am sure he will stay, but that season could be comical for you as well then! I will get the pop corn out. I love this game! :lol::lol::lol:
Or you save the popcorn for mister Woody.

Our season hasn't started yet, and given the state we had, I didn't expect us to address everything in one window, we probably won't win another CL, but at least it will be much better than last year, I'm sure.
 

Gasolin

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Or you save the popcorn for mister Woody.

Our season hasn't started yet, and given the state we had, I didn't expect us to address everything in one window, we probably won't win another CL, but at least it will be much better than last year, I'm sure.
Aww but you know you are doubting! And no, I don't care about Ed, Ole is doing the job with the dressing room. Yes he's gambling with the kids with potential but this is Zidane's thread, and for some reason, I am now convinced your season could be comical in all aspects now!

PS: Stop taking things too personally, it's just football mate. It's ok to be in a big mess, it had to happen anyway.
 

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Never really rated his as a manager, my guess is he would fail at United especially with the current squad. And now there are rumours of him quitting if they fail to get Pogba. Diva! And Great player but the less said about that head-but the better
 

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The worst coach to ever win a CL in the history along with Di Matteo, and he won 3 CL's ! I still dont understand how it happened, he will be sacked before Christmas.