Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense

[Rafateria]

If it had been Hull instead of Chelsea, would you lot be saying the same? Moreover, it was a very even game. Last gasp equalizers are nothing new and the scoreline justified the game. Had it been a one sided game where we got battered and Chelsea then conceded from our only chance then you could have claimed that. Not on the basis of us actually getting back to scoring late goals (like we always did till that calamity called Moyes hit us).

That calamity called Moyes didn't have the advantage of spending £150m (or whatever it was you spent this Summer) and FYI at the same stage last season he had 1 point more than LvG and hadn't had the benefit of such an easy start as LvG. I love the way some United supporters blame everything on Moyes.

Chelsea should have had the game sewn up by 60 mins and how they were denied a penalty for the WWF tackles is beyond belief actually. Chelsea were Chelsea, incisive and dangerous on the break otherwise most of the time happy to sit back and look for opportunities. United did well to get a point in the end, however I also think Maureen made a major error in bringing on Mikel to strengthen the DM area just at the time when Chelsea were beginning to dominate. It was a fascinating game, tactically.

 

[Rafateria]

With the amount of injuries Sturridge suffers from then Rodgers should have planned better in his absence. Suarez was as tough as old boots, he'd take a kicking every game but never seemed to be injured, Sturridge is a different type altogether, seems to be all tight, fast twitch muscle fibers which make him prone to muscle injury.

Even more confusing is Rodgers trying to force Borini out in the final hours of the transfer window, would have left you awfully short considering Lambert isn't the fittest.

Spot on. Though £14m for Borini is more than worth the risk (we could have kept Ibe back instead of letting him go on loan).

 

[B20]

Chelsea didn't "drop" two points. They were facing a top seven team away from home. It's a point gained for them, if anything.

fixed.

 

[Rafateria]

When you consider their away record at the big teams since Mourinho's return then it's amazing that we've got 2 points against them in the last 2 games at OT. A point gained for us for sure.

Is indeed the correct analysis.

 

[iBoss]

That calamity called Moyes didn't have the advantage of spending £150m (or whatever it was you spent this Summer) and FYI at the same stage last season he had 1 point more than LvG and hadn't had the benefit of such an easy start as LvG. I love the way some United supporters blame everything on Moyes.

Chelsea should have had the game sewn up by HT and how they were denied a penalty for the WWF tackles is beyond belief actually. Chelsea were Chelsea, incisive and dangerous on the break otherwise most of the time happy to sit back and look for opportunities. United did well to get a point in the end, however I also think Maureen made a major error in bringing on Mikel to strengthen the DM area just at the time when Chelsea were beginning to dominate. It was a fascinating game, tactically.

No, not really.

 

[NK86]

That calamity called Moyes didn't have the advantage of spending £150m (or whatever it was you spent this Summer) and FYI at the same stage last season he had 1 point more than LvG and hadn't had the benefit of such an easy start as LvG. I love the way some United supporters blame everything on Moyes.

Chelsea should have had the game sewn up by HT and how they were denied a penalty for the WWF tackles is beyond belief actually. Chelsea were Chelsea, incisive and dangerous on the break otherwise most of the time happy to sit back and look for opportunities. United did well to get a point in the end, however I also think Maureen made a major error in bringing on Mikel to strengthen the DM area just at the time when Chelsea were beginning to dominate. It was a fascinating game, tactically.

You lost me there? Till half time we had the best chances in the game. And Chelsea barely had any sight of goal barring that Drogba shot. As for the WWF tackles, Skrtel gets away with murder every friggin game and if that is the standard, then that was nothing new. I have seen Terry do far worse every friggin game. You are actually having a laugh by bringing up something like that which happens in every match in every corner.

In the second half, there was a period of 20 odd minutes where Chelsea dominated after their goal as we started to wither a bit but it was great to see us getting back to scoring late goals and not giving up.

As for the Moyes debate, I am not going to delve into it as it has been to death. But if you cannot see the difference in how the team is playing now compared to how we played last season under Moyes, then it's your issue and not mine. As for Moyes spending less than LvG, that again is more a reflection on his dithering than anything else as the manager always has a huge say in what goes on at United from transfers perspective.

 

[NK86]

fixed.

And 13 time PL champions. How many times have you lot won the PL?

 

[B20]

And 13 time PL champions. How many times have you lot won the PL?

Feck off.

 

[NK86]

Feck off.

What is there to feck off? Have you lot the domestic title over the last two decades? I am sorry I missed that. Your last big title was in 2005 and since then the best you can claim was a couple of second place finishes, with the first time followed by descent into mid table mediocrity, again. You use one season of poor form to correct my post so I just made it a point to help refresh your memory.

 

[Rafateria]

You lost me there? Till half time we had the best chances in the game. And Chelsea barely had any sight of goal barring that Drogba shot. As for the WWF tackles, Skrtel gets away with murder every friggin game and if that is the standard, then that was nothing new. I have seen Terry do far worse every friggin game. You are actually having a laugh by bringing up something like that which happens in every match in every corner.

In the second half, there was a period of 20 odd minutes where Chelsea dominated after their goal as we started to wither a bit but it was great to see us getting back to scoring late goals and not giving up.

As for the Moyes debate, I am not going to delve into it as it has been to death. But if you cannot see the difference in how the team is playing now compared to how we played last season under Moyes, then it's your issue and not mine. As for Moyes spending less than LvG, that again is more a reflection on his dithering than anything else as the manager always has a huge say in what goes on at United from transfers perspective.

Such bollocks. You should know what went on with your own club last season and why Moyes couldn't start spending until late in the transfer season. And yes of course the team looks better this year, but that's what a £65m player (two of roughly that value if you include Falcao) and £150m will do for a team !

I amended the HT - to 60 mins, which I guess is about right, can't remember the exact time to the minute. After the match many pundits were up in arms over those two 'tackles', cast iron penalty and you know it - yes, Skrtel can be bad but very very rarely if ever, that bad ! And I didn't see Terry do anything like that yesterday - so every friggin game ? Stroll on !

 

[Rafateria]

No, not really.

Amended. Clock out of kilter.

 

[ZDwyr]

Such bollocks. You should know what went on with your own club last season and why Moyes couldn't start spending until late in the transfer season. And yes of course the team looks better this year, but that's what a £65m player (two of roughly that value if you include Falcao) and £150m will do for a team !

I amended the HT - to 60 mins, which I guess is about right, can't remember the exact time to the minute. After the match many pundits were up in arms over those two 'tackles', cast iron penalty and you know it - yes, Skrtel can be bad but very very rarely if ever, that bad ! And I didn't see Terry do anything like that yesterday - so every friggin game ? Stroll on !

That's just not true. He is the biggest culprit in the league IMO.

 

[iBoss]

Such bollocks. You should know what went on with your own club last season and why Moyes couldn't start spending until late in the transfer season. And yes of course the team looks better this year, but that's what a £65m and £150m will do for a team !

I amended the HT - to 60 mins, which I guess is about right, can't remember the exact time to the minute. After the match many pundits were up in arms over those two 'tackles', cast iron penalty and you know it - yes, Skrtel can be bad but very very rarely if ever, that bad ! And I didn't see Terry do anything like that yesterday - so every friggin game ? Stroll on !

So you mean they should have sewn the game up during the 15 minutes from halftime to the 60th minute. In that case, we should have had the game sewn up in the first half. We created better chances.

Moyes could have signed more players. He decided to wait on things. Many reports suggested we had a few players lined up.
We look a better team period. Moyes wouldn't have had us playing like this. It's so fecking obvious we are a better team now. Even in pre season we were shit under Moyes.

feck off with that Skrtl shit. He should be conceding penalties every game. What a shit post.

 

[thegregster]

Liverpool will get nothing at all from games against Chelsea. So its a good point for us.

 

[NK86]

Such bollocks. You should know what went on with your own club last season and why Moyes couldn't start spending until late in the transfer season. And yes of course the team looks better this year, but that's what a £65m player (two of roughly that value if you include Falcao) and £150m will do for a team !

I amended the HT - to 60 mins, which I guess is about right, can't remember the exact time to the minute. After the match many pundits were up in arms over those two 'tackles', cast iron penalty and you know it - yes, Skrtel can be bad but very very rarely if ever, that bad ! And I didn't see Terry do anything like that yesterday - so every friggin game ? Stroll on !

Skrtel cannot be that bad? You are a worse WUM than what you think you are. As far as those pundits are concerned, I am sure they involve the likes of Souness and Carragher. Surely no bias there. The same pundits who spout bollocks game after game.
As for the 60 mins mark, I am not sure which game you watched. They had one great chance where Hazard couldn't convert and they scored from the resulting corner. Did you completely forget the one on one which RvP had and a couple of other good chances which he scuffed? All that before the same 60 mins mark you mentioned. Not to mention we had more shots on target, more possession in their territory and also more possession in general. But yes, keep on harping about how Chelsea should have had the game in their bag without any friggin clue or points to back it up.

Re the 150 million spend you are talking about. Yes we did spend that money but that was a direct result of us not performing well and many of our players moving on, namely Rio, Evra and Vidic. Not buying Herrera last term and not strengthening the midfield was all of Moyes' doing and no one else's. I am not sure who held his hands when he went on that crazy pursuit of Fabregas or did not approve the Thiago deal (as has been said in many outlets) or completely ignore Strootman?

 

[NK86]

So you mean they should have sewn the game up during the 15 minutes from halftime to the 60th minute. In that case, we should have had the game sewn up in the first half. We created better chances.

Moyes could have signed more players. He decided to wait on things. Many reports suggested we had a few players lined up.
We look a better team period. Moyes wouldn't have had us playing like this. It's so fecking obvious we are a better team now. Even in pre season we were shit under Moyes.

feck off with that Skrtl shit. He should be conceding penalties every game. What a shit post.

I am not sure he even watches Liverpool if he claims that Skrtel does not do worse than what we were made to see a gazillion times during our match. Skrtel goes for the man and hardly ever looks at the ball during the corners so many times during a game that people have actually stopped bothering to post it.

 

[Rafateria]

Skrtel was very bad at pulling shirts, especially first half of last season, he got better towards the end (I'm sure BR had a word because otherwise Skrtel would have been conceding penalties). This season he's no better/worse than most other CBs (arms around the body, pulling shirts, holding) however I haven't seen him get anyone in a headlock before ! Never mind Smalling & Rojo working in stereo. ROFL !

 

[SteveJ]

Where are these 'outraged critics' each time we get screwed over at Stamford Bridge?

 

[Rafateria]

We look a better team period. Moyes wouldn't have had us playing like this. It's so fecking obvious we are a better team now. Even in pre season we were shit under Moyes.

Which is what I said :

" And yes of course the team looks better this year, but that's what a £65m player (two of roughly that value if you include Falcao) and £150m will do for a team !"

 

[Cina]

Which is what I said :

" And yes of course the team looks better this year, but that's what a £65m player (two of roughly that value if you include Falcao) and £150m will do for a team !"

What about £120m?

 

[PickledRed]

What about £120m?

What about the loss of a world class talent? Didn't see that at United this summer. The £120m remark is wilfully missing the context of the two clubs' summer spending.

 

[finneh]

That calamity called Moyes didn't have the advantage of spending £150m (or whatever it was you spent this Summer) and FYI at the same stage last season he had 1 point more than LvG and hadn't had the benefit of such an easy start as LvG. I love the way some United supporters blame everything on Moyes.

Chelsea should have had the game sewn up by 60 mins and how they were denied a penalty for the WWF tackles is beyond belief actually. Chelsea were Chelsea, incisive and dangerous on the break otherwise most of the time happy to sit back and look for opportunities. United did well to get a point in the end, however I also think Maureen made a major error in bringing on Mikel to strengthen the DM area just at the time when Chelsea were beginning to dominate. It was a fascinating game, tactically.

Even after the amended that's an absurd conclusion. The only real "chances" they had were corners, if you can call a corner a real chance. They scored and did the standard Chelsea tactic of sitting on the goal.

You talk about chances, but if RVP lifts the ball over Courtois instead of going for power, we're 1-0 up early on. If Di Maria brings Mata's ball down and slots it home or slides it across for a tap-in, it's 2-0. Those 2 chances were better than any none-scoring chance that Chelsea had all game.

The penalty shout is something that is a problem with the entire League in general. Why referee's don't come out in pre-season and warn everyone that holding/mauling in the penalty area will result in penalty's, I don't know. However everyone adapts their game to suit how referee's rule. Liverpool would probably be 15 points down last season if ref's cracked down on it; but I don't blame Skrtel, he's taking advantage of refereeing inaction. Likewise if shielding the ball out of play is blown as an obstruction every time, defenders will stop it (another bugbear of mine). Until this happens why in God's name would they make it harder on themselves.

What about the loss of a world class talent? Didn't see that at United this summer. The £120m remark is wilfully missing the context of the two clubs' summer spending.

I'd say having our entire first team defence injured would account for that.

 

[Cina]

What about the loss of a world class talent? Didn't see that at United this summer. The £120m remark is wilfully missing the context of the two clubs' summer spending.

We did alright without Ronaldo iirc.

Anyway, point is that if you spend £120m you should be looking at an improvement. Fact is that Rodgers largely spent it poorly. Focused too much on enhancing the squad and not enough of strengthening the first XI to compensate for losing Suarez.

 

[Rafateria]

What about £120m?

Of course. However both the £120m question and Skrtel issue are both deflections from the matters under discussion.

£150m spent in one transfer season should naturally produce a better team regardless of the manager. Personally I don't think it's fair to lay all the blame on Moyes' doorstep, no matter how convenient some posters find it to be.

And was it or was it not a penalty when Smalling and Rojo wrestled Terry & Ivanovic to the ground ?

 

[Rafateria]

The penalty shout is something that is a problem with the entire League in general. Why referee's don't come out in pre-season and warn everyone that holding/mauling in the penalty area will result in penalty's, I don't know. However everyone adapts their game to suit how referee's rule. Liverpool would probably be 15 points down last season if ref's cracked down on it; but I don't blame Skrtel, he's taking advantage of refereeing inaction. Likewise if shielding the ball out of play is blown as an obstruction every time, defenders will stop it (another bugbear of mine). Until this happens why in God's name would they make it harder on themselves.

Agree on both of your bugbears. Impossible to calculate a points difference though since after being penalised once or twice it's likely he would stop .. and even may then pay more attention to where the ball actually is - and improve on dead-balls as a consequence !

 

[Cina]

Of course. However both the £120m question and Skrtel issue are both deflections from the matters under discussion.

£150m spent in one transfer season should naturally produce a better team regardless of the manager. Personally I don't think it's fair to lay all the blame on Moyes' doorstep, no matter how convenient some posters find it to be.

And was it or was it not a penalty when Smalling and Rojo wrestled Terry & Ivanovic to the ground ?

Of course it was a penalty but it happens a shitload and penalties aren't given. Sky were just being Sky and trying to find a controversial moment in a big match.

 

[RobinLFC]

And was it or was it not a penalty when Smalling and Rojo wrestled Terry & Ivanovic to the ground ?

It was a clear penalty. However, I don't think you should be arguing about questionable calls in the penalty area anymore because there are so many these days. I'd like to think those decisions even themselves out over the course of the season. Truth be told, United has already had some shocking decisions against them too this season.

 

[SteveJ]

Sky were just being Sky and trying to find a controversial moment in a big match.

This is, sadly, a growing trend on many channels (especially ITV): even if a great game has been broadcast, they immediately focus on any controversial moments rather than the goals, plays etc.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Skrtel was very bad at pulling shirts, especially first half of last season, he got better towards the end (I'm sure BR had a word because otherwise Skrtel would have been conceding penalties). This season he's no better/worse than most other CBs (arms around the body, pulling shirts, holding) however I haven't seen him get anyone in a headlock before ! Never mind Smalling & Rojo working in stereo. ROFL !

What pisses me off about this is the fact we have been denied so many pens this year, even against West Brom, Lescott on Felliani was a pen for pulling his shirt in the box in the last few mins. However rival fans will just point to us being given another decision.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Of course it was a penalty but it happens a shitload and penalties aren't given. Sky were just being Sky and trying to find a controversial moment in a big match.

Exactly.

Liverpool v City last year - City should have had a pen in the last minute, blatant handball not given - could have cost them the league.

However, in hindsight glad it wasn't given, wouldn't have got to see Stevie make a dick of himself

 

[Manucho the boss]

Exactly.

Liverpool v City last year - City should have had a pen in the last minute, blatant handball not given - could have cost them the league.

However, in hindsight glad it wasn't given, wouldn't have got to see Stevie make a dick of himself

City had some memorable decisions go their way, couple of shocking offside calls against Liverpool in the game at the etihad, Tiote scored a great goal which city players convinced the ref that an offside player interfered even though he wasn't in the keepers line of sight.

 

[Dumbstar]

That calamity called Moyes didn't have the advantage of spending £150m (or whatever it was you spent this Summer) and FYI at the same stage last season he had 1 point more than LvG and hadn't had the benefit of such an easy start as LvG. I love the way some United supporters blame everything on Moyes.

Chelsea should have had the game sewn up by 60 mins and how they were denied a penalty for the WWF tackles is beyond belief actually. Chelsea were Chelsea, incisive and dangerous on the break otherwise most of the time happy to sit back and look for opportunities. United did well to get a point in the end, however I also think Maureen made a major error in bringing on Mikel to strengthen the DM area just at the time when Chelsea were beginning to dominate. It was a fascinating game, tactically.

Its easier to boil things down rather than examine details. Too many painful truths lurking about when you do that. So to avoid all that why did Liverpool finish sooooooooooo much higher than Man Utd? Easy, Moyes and Suarez.

Done.

 

[Thisistheone]

It was a clear penalty. However, I don't think you should be arguing about questionable calls in the penalty area anymore because there are so many these days. I'd like to think those decisions even themselves out over the course of the season. Truth be told, United has already had some shocking decisions against them too this season.

A fair post. Rafateria take note.

 

[Crackers]

fixed.

We'll see who's right at the end of the season.

 

[Tyrion]

Which is what I said :

" And yes of course the team looks better this year, but that's what a £65m player (two of roughly that value if you include Falcao) and £150m will do for a team !"

Another way of looking at it is Moyes took over a team that walked the league by 11 points and by the end of his first season, we finished 22 points behind 1st. LVG took on a struggling team and unbalanced squad which had lost 3 of its best defenders and leaders (Evra, Vidic and Rio) and is trying to bring together a team (half of which has come in from different leagues in the summer) with a new way of playing.

Yes, LvG spent more money and not everything was Moyes fault but anyone who suggests that the only difference between LvG and Moyes situation and the performances is the extra money is just being daft IMO.

If, by the end of the season, we still finish 7th, then we can complain. I'm sure if that happens there will be loads of Liverpool posters here to remind us and explain to us mere mortals where we went wrong. If we finish 4th and you 5th, I expect there to be silence from you guys

Also, isn't this the Liverpool squad thread. Not the "Moyes v LVG" or "Is Skrtel a prat" thread. At least it's not the RAWK thread that's being messed with.

 

[Manucho the boss]

Might watch their game tonight instead of the shrews against Chelsea.

Will Rodgers take the opportunity to rest Sterling and Gerrard? Will Markovic finally do something?

I'm not sure why they seem to be taking this competition seriously, it's a chance of a trophy sure but while you're in the CL and the race for top 4 then you have to make sacrifices.

 

[Rafateria]

A fair post. Rafateria take note.

Mate. I don't need to take note. I was referring to one major and obvious specific incident that the referee failed to punish that, at the end of the day, may/would (if they scored from the resulting penalty) have made a huge difference to the match. I wasn't looking for a debate on systemic fouling in the box or Skrtel's misdemeanours, we all know those stories, NK86 or whoever it was, was deflecting and failed to answer the question, politician-style.

 

[Rafateria]

Might watch their game tonight instead of the shrews against Chelsea.

Will Rodgers take the opportunity to rest Sterling and Gerrard? Will Markovic finally do something?

I'm not sure why they seem to be taking this competition seriously, it's a chance of a trophy sure but while you're in the CL and the race for top 4 then you have to make sacrifices.

I would be very surprised if any of : Sterling, Gerrard, Lovren, Manquillo or Moreno started. I expect to see Jones, Johnson, Enrique, Toure, Allen, Can, Markovic and Lambert all start. The other three will likely be Lallana, Balotelli and Lucas.

I would also be surprised if Markovic were to do anything special before the second half of this season, at least. Missed most of pre-season with injuries and last season was his 'break-through' season if you like. Seems like a typical FSG signing for the future - he does come highly rated from some solid sources though so we'll just have to see. He won't be pulling up trees any time soon.

 

[BorisontheRock]

What about the loss of a world class talent? Didn't see that at United this summer. The £120m remark is wilfully missing the context of the two clubs' summer spending.

You can't have it both ways, United lost a top class defence of evra, vidic and Rio plus had its next best five defenders in Evans, Jones, Smalling, Rafael and shaw injured

Irrespective, I recall most Liverpool fans telling us that the majority of your £120m spend was already allocated and would gave been spent irrespective whether suarez had left, so the only real addition to the squad as suarez replacement is ballotelli.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Skrtel was very bad at pulling shirts, especially first half of last season, he got better towards the end (I'm sure BR had a word because otherwise Skrtel would have been conceding penalties). This season he's no better/worse than most other CBs (arms around the body, pulling shirts, holding) however I haven't seen him get anyone in a headlock before ! Never mind Smalling & Rojo working in stereo. ROFL !

Hilarious that you're blind to where the hands of Ivanovic and Terry were. Laughable that you call it a stonewall penalty.

You're also wrong that Chelsea were more incisive. We had the better opportunities and more number of them. Would they be able to finish us off if they didn't stop playing at 1-0? Possibly, but it's far from certain. They were hardly troubling us anyway.