Thought he pretty much nullified Hazzard and Jose moved him infield as a consequence. The amount of stick he gets is unwarranted as he keeps a favourite out. But the reality is he becoming the best right back in the league under LVG.
Best RB in the league, really??Thought he pretty much nullified Hazzard and Jose moved him infield as a consequence. The amount of stick he gets is unwarranted as he keeps a favourite out. But the reality is he becoming the best right back in the league under LVG.
The main thing he does so fricking well, and it can't be underestimated how important it is to Van Gaal's system, is offer an "out" to our defenders and midfielders. In fact I'm certain it's the edge he has over Rafael in Van Gaal's eyes right now.I am a big Rafael fan but I thought Valencia was fine. His first touch is really underrated too. Is always immaculate.
Agree with all that and that Valencia has no blame on him for the goal. Yesterday was different in that we retained the left hand side triangle of Fellaini, Young and Shaw (coming in for Blind), but the usual right hand side triangle wasn't there as Herrera played DM and Mata drifts inside more than Young anyway because he's an attacking midfielder playing wide rather than a natural winger. Neville also noted how deep Chelsea were defending particularly in the first half which meant there was plenty of space for Mata in front of the penalty area to try and influence play and that in turn led to Valencia being quite often 2 vs. 1. He got a bit more help out there when Januzaj came on but unfortunately the kid had a poor game.The main thing he does so fricking well, and it can't be underestimated how important it is to Van Gaal's system, is offer an "out" to our defenders and midfielders. In fact I'm certain it's the edge he has over Rafael in Van Gaal's eyes right now.
As you say, his first touch is immaculate and his holding of the ball is the footballing equivalent of a dog with lock jaw. If a defender or midfielder on his side of the pitch is under pressure you can guarantee that he will be making himself available to them and it doesn't matter how difficult the pass is he will use one touch to kill it and hold on to it until he can find a safe pass. There's no way in hell Rafael can match him on that and when you're playing in Van Gaal's system and these players have the ball it's essential that they don't lose it because the team isn't in shape to defend.
Who else has the skill of Valencia? I've been really impressed by Valencia at right back and he is getting better each month. Ivanovic is the best currently then either Coleman or Zabaletta (who Valencia has had a better season than both) or Clyne and imho Valencia is already an upgrade of Clyne.Best RB in the league, really??
I don't understand. He was player of the season the year after his injury. That has had nothing to do with his drop in form. This is a player who's gone from one of best wingers in the league to a full back who has been outshone going forward by whoever is playing on the flank opposite (Shaw yesterday now). I'm not sure what the finished article is meant to be.Valencia has found his form again after that dreadful injury. It took time and he has carried a lot of criticism sometimes warranted but most often not. He has been especially on top of his game in the last few matches. A top player and becoming much more the finished article.
It's surprising how many times you have to remind people of this. You're right that it's nothing to do with that leg break at all, just a combination of limited technique which allowed defenders to work him out plus a spectacular dip in confidence and self belief I think.I don't understand. He was player of the season the year after his injury. That has had nothing to do with his drop in form. This is a player who's gone from one of best wingers in the league to a full back who has been outshone going forward by whoever is playing on the flank opposite (Shaw yesterday now). I'm not sure what the finished article is meant to be.
The irony of bringing up Smalling over hitting back passes in a Valencia thread.Don't see how that was Valencia's fault. He was covering the line to make sure Fabregas does not run off him. Herrera should have tracked Hazard better. But overall, I am very satisfied with everyone's performance. Falcao clearly is not the answer for us as a CF, apart from that everyone did well. Oh, Smalling should learn how to control a back pass. He over hits it so often it's ridiculous.
The problem started because Falcao wasn't strong enough to hold Terry off. Valencia was in a position to give Smalling a passing option as we were in possession. We lost it and from that point there is nothing Valencia can do about it. You're talking shite.Theres no danger from Fabregas going past Mata on the halfway line if your right back is at right back.
When he's stuck to the spot and Fabregas finds a pass to Oscar, thats when its trouble.
If Fabregas runs the ball down the line, then Valencia has to eventually confront him and block crossing oppertunities. There is absolutely no need to try and confront him that far forward, and then fail to do so, and then fail to recover your position. He took himself out of the move completely by being in the wrong position to start with
Ivanovic got tortured yesterday afternoon despite having the benefit of playing in a team camped in their penalty box.Valencia wasn't at fault for the goal but nor was he doing anything useful - he was not in a position to block Hazard (as we saw) nor was he covering Fabregas properly (neither when Oscar or Hazard had the ball). He was, as he has been prone to doing for a while now, ambling around.
I also think the definition of solid RB has changed while I was not looking - Brown was a solid RB, Ivanovic on the same pitch as Valencia today is a solid RB (and he was often 2v1 too in the 1st half). Where being able to tackle or intercept doesn't mean being out of position. He's an athletic RB who can charge into and out of position and barge people off the ball, but he's not a solid RB.
You can't just say it came down that side so it was his fault. Both have come from players running off Herrera in central areas. I'm not sure what the three were. Unless you're counting the cup game I suppose. Liverpool's goal came from the other side when we played them. As did City's second but we don't have endless discussions about the position of our left back.The agenda posting on here really is staggering at times. Valencia has many positive points. Along with his pace and athleticism he is excellent at retaining possession which is absolutely key for Van Gaal's United. His end product is poor but he overlaps well and creates space and options for Mata and Herrera inside.
But those that that defend him from the "he never takes anyone on and his crossing is crap" brigade seem oblivious to his faults. He has terrible defensive instincts. My issue with him is that at a club like United, your first choice right back cannot be such a defensive weak link.
Against poor teams where United dominate it may not matter but in big games against better teams they will exploit the gaping holes he leaves due to poor positioning. The first goal in these big games is crucial and in recent games against the rest of the top 4, the first goal was conceded through a gaping hole in the right side of defence. That is now 3 from the last 3.
Yet he is "solid defensively"?
Seeing a trend now. After every freaking game there are about 5 posters (not naming them) claiming Valencia being bad and needs to be flogged. Well apart from Valencia, we really do not have a choice currently (seeing that LvG does not rate Rafael although him being fit). And I guess before the end of the season, LvG does not want to tinker too much with the current 11.Heh. Poster comes into thread accusing others of having an agenda. Proceeds to blame a player for a goal conceded which had absolutely nothing to do with him. Classic.
I'll assume it was my post you are referring to. Which goal had nothing to do with him?Heh. Poster comes into thread accusing others of having an agenda. Proceeds to blame a player for a goal conceded which had absolutely nothing to do with him. Classic.
I don't blame him for any of the goals - its more down to a miscommunication between several players of who is marking who. The anti-Valencia agenda is quite strong here though. Many think Rafa should be starting and each week, and go match day shopping for potential Valencia mistakes to reinforce their views.The agenda posting on here really is staggering at times. Valencia has many positive points. Along with his pace and athleticism he is excellent at retaining possession which is absolutely key for Van Gaal's United. His end product is poor but he overlaps well and creates space and options for Mata and Herrera inside.
But those that that defend him from the "he never takes anyone on and his crossing is crap" brigade seem oblivious to his faults. He has terrible defensive instincts. My issue with him is that at a club like United, your first choice right back cannot be such a defensive weak link.
Against poor teams where United dominate it may not matter but in big games against better teams they will exploit the gaping holes he leaves due to poor positioning. The first goal in these big games is crucial and in recent games against the rest of the top 4, the first goal was conceded through a gaping hole in the right side of defence. That is now 3 from the last 3.
Yet he is "solid defensively"?
Well we only conceded one. So it would be that one.I'll assume it was my post you are referring to. Which goal had nothing to do with him?
Valencia is a stop-gap at right-back, yet he struggles to even take a throw-in
This - AV was wide to give his usual outball to our defence/midfield. The fact that a teammate turned it over easily left him out fo the equation. Someone should have fouled Hazard and took a yellow.The problem started because Falcao wasn't strong enough to hold Terry off. Valencia was in a position to give Smalling a passing option as we were in possession. We lost it and from that point there is nothing Valencia can do about it. You're talking shite.
See I'm not convinced that in this system overlapping is so important from the fullback.Valencia is an interesting one, I was never a big fan of him as a winger as he lacks flair, I was always in the Nani camp. However as a RB I think he's fine up to a point, he's very solid and as @Pexbo says, he offers a good out ball and possession retention.
The big issue is in our current system the fullbacks need to provide a threat in attack, you could say this of the modern fullback in general but when you use inverted wingers then that overlap needs to provide penetration and a good final ball, Valencia has been seriously lacking in the latter for some time now, and it's highlighted when when compared to the chances Blind and Shaw have created from the LB position in the last 3 games.
Probably has been this season. Ivanovic is incredibly overrated because he scores a few goals, zabaleta has been poor and there is nobody else really. Clyne is pretty good but nothing better then valencia this season who has been at a pretty good level all year.Best RB in the league, really??
Clyne's reputation has been heavily boosted by playing in a defensive Southampton side that has Wanayama and Schneiderlin offering a lot of protection to the back four.Probably has been this season. Ivanovic is incredibly overrated because he scores a few goals, zabaleta has been poor and there is nobody else really. Clyne is pretty good but nothing better then valencia this season who has been at a pretty good level all year.
It's been explained numerous times why it wasn't his fault by numerous people. It's only the 4 or 5 who have an agenda against him that are actually blaming him.*Points out the error of a player that are clear as day* cry AGENDA!!!
And its been explained numerous times that a good right back could've done a hell of a lot better. It isn't '4 or 5' people, theres a heck of a lot of people here who don't rate Valencia, just check out the what players we need next season thread, members like yourself seem hellbent on absolving him of any blame in the last 6/7 games, that's more of an agenda than anything.It's been explained numerous times why it wasn't his fault by numerous people. It's only the 4 or 5 who have an agenda against him that are actually blaming him.
I've said myself I'd happily take a new right back in the summer if Van Gaal identifies an upgrade but it's got to be a top quality player who can grow to be one of the best in the world. Otherwise I'd stick with Valencia and keep scouting.And its been explained numerous times that a good right back could've done a hell of a lot better. It isn't '4 or 5' people, theres a heck of a lot of people here who don't rate Valencia, just check out the what players we need next season thread, members like yourself seem hellbent on absolving him of any blame in the last 6/7 games, that's more of an agenda than anything.
As I've said a couple of times here I wouldn't directly blame Valencia for the goal yesterday but he could've done so much more to prevent it. When the ball was played to Oscar Smalling correctly stepped up to stop him turning which left a gaping hole between our right back and our centre back, after Hazard had broken away from Herrera the only dangerous ball on at that time was to Hazard who was bursting into that gaping hole. At no point did Valencia read this danger and tuck in to prevent it, something an intelligent fullback would've done. Its this lack of footballing intelligence that costs a team set up in the way we are, we rely on players knowing their roles and for everyone to work as a team.
End of discussion. He did nothing even though he could see everything unfolding in his field of vision.And its been explained numerous times that a good right back could've done a hell of a lot better. It isn't '4 or 5' people, theres a heck of a lot of people here who don't rate Valencia, just check out the what players we need next season thread, members like yourself seem hellbent on absolving him of any blame in the last 6/7 games, that's more of an agenda than anything.
As I've said a couple of times here I wouldn't directly blame Valencia for the goal yesterday but he could've done so much more to prevent it. When the ball was played to Oscar Smalling correctly stepped up to stop him turning which left a gaping hole between our right back and our centre back, after Hazard had broken away from Herrera the only dangerous ball on at that time was to Hazard who was bursting into that gaping hole. At no point did Valencia read this danger and tuck in to prevent it, something an intelligent fullback would've done. Its this lack of footballing intelligence and failure to read the progression of an attack that costs a team set up in the way we are, we rely on players knowing their roles and for everyone to work as a team.
There was another prime example of this when Herrera played a poor, short ball to Valencia that was never going to reach him, he could've either stepped back into position to prevent the counter attack or he could've stepped forward to challenge Fabregas (who intercepted the pass), he did neither, he just sat on the sideline waiting for the ball because he struggles to read the game.
Which is still bollocks. He's in the correct position to stop Fabregas progressing down the line, if he's not there Fabregas has acres of space.End of discussion. He did nothing even though he could see everything unfolding in his field of vision.